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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on June 08, 2016, 12:53:01 PM

Title: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: Dos Equis on June 08, 2016, 12:53:01 PM
Listen to her carefully worded answer, when asked twice whether there is a Second Amendment right to own a gun:  "If it is a Constitutional right . . . ." 

Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: 240 is Back on June 08, 2016, 01:02:26 PM
Liberal thinking on gun rights is sickening:

"It’s often argued that the American murder rate is high because guns are more available here than in other countries. After a tragedy like the massacre at Columbine High School, anyone could feel that it is too easy for Americans to get their hands on weapons. But nobody has a good solution. This is another issue where you see the extremes of the two existing major parties. Democrats want to confiscate all guns, which is a dumb idea because only the law-abiding citizens would turn in their guns and the bad guys would be the only ones left armed. The Republicans walk the NRA line and refuse even limited restrictions. I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I also support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within seventy-two hours if a potential gun owner has a record."
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: andreisdaman on June 14, 2016, 06:35:18 AM
There is still some issue as to whether the second amendment states that its okay for regular citizens to own guns...it does say "in a well-regulated militia"
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 14, 2016, 07:26:57 AM
There is still some issue as to whether the second amendment states that its okay for regular citizens to own guns...it does say "in a well-regulated militia"

No there is not - the SC decided in Heller that it is a inidividual right the same as the 1, 4, 5, 6, etc

Stop being so dumb
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: Kazan on June 14, 2016, 07:37:51 AM
There is still some issue as to whether the second amendment states that its okay for regular citizens to own guns...it does say "in a well-regulated militia"

The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: andreisdaman on June 14, 2016, 08:03:24 AM
The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

I read that to mean that a well regulated militia under some form of government supervision can possess guns....the founding fathers never foresaw assault rifles
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 14, 2016, 08:27:11 AM
I read that to mean that a well regulated militia under some form of government supervision can possess guns....the founding fathers never foresaw assault rifles

What you think you read means nothing - the SC already ruled on this
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: Kazan on June 14, 2016, 09:56:07 AM
I read that to mean that a well regulated militia under some form of government supervision can possess guns....the founding fathers never foresaw assault rifles

Really? Then why did they specifically say the right to bear arms? Could have just said muskets
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: andreisdaman on June 14, 2016, 09:59:40 AM
Really? Then why did they specifically say the right to bear arms? Could have just said muskets
by your reasoning I can have an attack helicopter fully loaded with rounds....or hand held guided missile
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: Straw Man on June 14, 2016, 10:11:52 AM
Listen to her carefully worded answer, when asked twice whether there is a Second Amendment right to own a gun:  "If it is a Constitutional right . . . ." 



Hey Bum, why did you leave off the rest of the quote

"If it is a Constitutional right then it like every other Constitutional right is subject to reasonable regulations" 

the words "well regulated" are right there in the second amendment


Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: tonymctones on June 14, 2016, 10:34:48 AM
I read that to mean that a well regulated militia under some form of government supervision can possess guns....the founding fathers never foresaw assault rifles
The founding fathers never foresaw the Internet either that would let millions of people be exposed to hateful and ignorant things...why not add more restrictions to the first amendment?
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: tonymctones on June 14, 2016, 10:37:25 AM
This man was radicalized over the Internet Andre, why are you ok with ignorant shit being put on the internet that weak minded individuals eat up like gospel?

Are you for restricting that as well?
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: tonymctones on June 14, 2016, 10:41:15 AM
Hey Bum, why did you leave off the rest of the quote

"If it is a Constitutional right then it like every other Constitutional right is subject to reasonable regulations" 

the words "well regulated" are right there in the second amendment
Bc that's not the point of the thread straw, the point is to show that Hillary won't even admit that we have a right to bear arms even though the Supreme Court says we do!!!
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: Straw Man on June 14, 2016, 10:46:55 AM
Bc that's not the point of the thread straw, the point is to show that Hillary won't even admit that we have a right to bear arms even though the Supreme Court says we do!!!

great point

let's remove the context of  her statement and then have a discussion about what's  left

Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: tonymctones on June 14, 2016, 10:49:15 AM
great point

let's remove the context of  her statement and then have a discussion about what's  left
The context of her statement is that she doesn't agree that we have an individual right to own a gun, the caveat to that statement is that if we do bullshit.
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: Dos Equis on June 14, 2016, 10:51:14 AM
The context of her statement is that she doesn't agree that we have an individual right to own a gun, the caveat to that statement is that if we do bullshit.

Exactly.
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: Straw Man on June 14, 2016, 10:59:33 AM
The context of her statement is that she doesn't agree that we have an individual right to own a gun, the caveat to that statement is that if we do bullshit.

Bullshit

She's been quoted in the past saying she believes in second amendment

I see you and Bum are hanging your entire premise of the word "IF" in her statement and if you choose to believe that means she doesn't support the 2nd amendment that is your choice

It's the same tired old script your side runs every election cycle

Here's a quote from Hillary in a Democratic debate from 2008 and I'm sure she say the same thing again but it won't really matter because your side will continue to just selectively choose that parts that you want to hear

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/us/politics/15demdebate-transcript.html
Quote
You know, I believe in the Second Amendment. People have a right to bear arms. But I also believe that we can common-sensically approach this.

btw - this is just the first one I've found.  I'm sure there are others as well but I doubt it would matter.  Your side has a narrative to sell
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: tonymctones on June 14, 2016, 11:02:53 AM
Bullshit

She's been quoted in the past saying she believes in second amendment

I see you and Bum are hanging your entire premise of the word "IF" in her statement and if you choose to believe that means she doesn't support the 2nd amendment that is your choice

It's the same tired old script your side runs every election cycle

Here's a quote from Hillary in a Democratic debate from 2008 and I'm sure she say the same thing again but it won't really matter because your side will continue to just selectively choose that parts that you want to hear

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/us/politics/15demdebate-transcript.html
btw - this is just the first one I've found.  I'm sure there are others as well but I doubt it would matter.  Your side has a narrative to sell
The question wasn't whether she believed in the second amendment straw, it was does she believe the second amendment applies to individuals...

There is a difference and that's why she didn't answer the question
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: Dos Equis on June 14, 2016, 11:17:19 AM
The question wasn't whether she believed in the second amendment straw, it was does she believe the second amendment applies to individuals...

There is a difference and that's why she didn't answer the question

She doesn't believe in the Second Amendment.  But at the same time, she wants to give herself room to say she never say it isn't a fundamental right.  This is partly why people don't like politicians. 

I'd actually have some respect for her if she just came out and said what she believes. 
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: Kazan on June 14, 2016, 11:38:46 AM
by your reasoning I can have an attack helicopter fully loaded with rounds....or hand held guided missile

Why not? If you can afford and maintain it. why anyone would want such things, I have no idea
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: Straw Man on June 14, 2016, 11:53:44 AM
Why not? If you can afford and maintain it. why anyone would want such things, I have no idea

you can't think of any ideas on why someone would want that?

I can think of a few

let's start with the argument that the Cliven Bundy types will give you that they need to protect themselves against a tyrannical government or the more common argument that they need it for self defense against criminals



Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: tonymctones on June 14, 2016, 12:00:05 PM
I'd actually have some respect for her if she just came out and said what she believes. 
I completely agree, I think Bernie is pretty damn crazy fiscally but At least he is honest
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: Straw Man on June 14, 2016, 12:00:10 PM
The question wasn't whether she believed in the second amendment straw, it was does she believe the second amendment applies to individuals...

There is a difference and that's why she didn't answer the question

LOL - who else would it apply to if not individuals

BTW - I'm not fan of the way she or any other politician parses their words because it creates opportunities for others to then re-frame what they said (just like in this case) to suit their own agenda

I also see no reason to not say radical islam or radical islamic terrorist just like I see no reason not to say radical christian or radical christian terrorist (in the example of someone who uses their personal christian beliefs to justify violence)

lets call things what they are and stop trying to dance around shit in an attempt to not offend anyone (or to please everyone)


Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: tonymctones on June 14, 2016, 12:14:10 PM
LOL - who else would it apply to if not individuals

BTW - I'm not fan of the way she or any other politician parses their words because it creates opportunities for others to then re-frame what they said (just like in this case) to suit their own agenda

I also see no reason to not say radical islam or radical islamic terrorist just like I see no reason not to say radical christian or radical christian terrorist (in the example of someone who uses their personal christian beliefs to justify violence)

lets call things what they are and stop trying to dance around shit in an attempt to not offend anyone (or to please everyone)



The difference is whether it applies to an individual on a member of a militia straw.

If she didn't distinguish between the two and saw no difference the. Why would she begin her caveat with an "if"?
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: andreisdaman on June 14, 2016, 01:42:15 PM
This man was radicalized over the Internet Andre, why are you ok with ignorant shit being put on the internet that weak minded individuals eat up like gospel?

Are you for restricting that as well?
I'm not ok with that at all...but the free speech guarantee in the constitution is clear....owning killing machines is not for the sake of having the right to bear arms is not
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: tonymctones on June 14, 2016, 01:51:06 PM
I'm not ok with that at all...but the free speech guarantee in the constitution is clear....owning killing machines is not for the sake of having the right to bear arms is not
Haha so you agree the reason he shot people is that he was radicalized over the Internet and you think the solution is to remove guns and not the thing that radicalized him?

By the way the Supreme Court has made it crystal clear, individuals have a right to own guns.
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: tonymctones on June 14, 2016, 01:52:13 PM
I'm not ok with that at all...but the free speech guarantee in the constitution is clear....owning killing machines is not for the sake of having the right to bear arms is not
Plenty of restrictions have been placed on the first amendment, why are you against prohibiting speech that radicalizes people?
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: 240 is Back on June 14, 2016, 01:53:55 PM
people on the no-fly and terror-watch list can currently walk into a gun store and order a case of AR-15s.

Think about that.   Dems, obama, trump all agree with it.    NRA and Senate Repubs are against it.
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: Straw Man on June 14, 2016, 02:07:18 PM
The difference is whether it applies to an individual on a member of a militia straw.

If she didn't distinguish between the two and saw no difference the. Why would she begin her caveat with an "if"?

where in that video did she mention being a member of a militia as a requirement for gun ownership?
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: tonymctones on June 14, 2016, 02:17:11 PM
where in that video did she mention being a member of a militia as a requirement for gun ownership?
That was the question straw, why would she not agree that it's an individual right straw?

Why would she use the term "if" assuming she saw no difference
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: tonymctones on June 14, 2016, 02:21:03 PM
people on the no-fly and terror-watch list can currently walk into a gun store and order a case of AR-15s.

Think about that.   Dems, obama, trump all agree with it.    NRA and Senate Repubs are against it.
You know who else is against it? The constitution!!!

YOU CANNOT STRIP AWAY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS WITHOUY DUE PROCESS!!!!

It's that easy, make hate speech illegal.

I mean you're plenty ok with infringing on the second amendment why not the first?
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: Straw Man on June 14, 2016, 02:34:32 PM
That was the question straw, why would she not agree that it's an individual right straw?

Why would she use the term "if" assuming she saw no difference

when did she not agree ?

I understand your hangup with the word "if"

I've already said I don't like the way she and other politicians parse their words but I see nothing in that clip that leads me to believe she doesn't believe in the second amendment or that it only applies to members of a militia (has that ever been a requirement in the history of this country)

You're free to your own interpretation.   I just don't agree with it.

Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: tonymctones on June 14, 2016, 02:42:34 PM
when did she not agree ?

I understand your hangup with the word "if"

I've already said I don't like the way she and other politicians parse their words but I see nothing in that clip that leads me to believe she doesn't believe in the second amendment or that it only applies to members of a militia (has that ever been a requirement in the history of this country)

You're free to your own interpretation.   I just don't agree with it.


She did not affirm that is an individual right straw, she side stepped the question and the gave a caveat with an "if"

I don't think there is much interpreting there but that's fine.

I agree with you, I don't like politics speak either. Bernie is a much better person than Hillary and trump
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: Kazan on June 14, 2016, 06:48:55 PM
you can't think of any ideas on why someone would want that?

I can think of a few

let's start with the argument that the Cliven Bundy types will give you that they need to protect themselves against a tyrannical government or the more common argument that they need it for self defense against criminals





Yes of course, when someone breaks into your house jump into your Apache and fire a missile into your house, makes perfect sense  ::)
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: andreisdaman on June 15, 2016, 06:45:08 AM
Why not? If you can afford and maintain it. why anyone would want such things, I have no idea

your lunacy just did you in....thanks ;D
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: Kazan on June 15, 2016, 08:36:32 AM
your lunacy just did you in....thanks ;D

My lunacy? Read the constitution, what does it say? The right to bear arms shall not be infringed - some part of that you don't understand?
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: Straw Man on June 15, 2016, 08:47:28 AM
Yes of course, when someone breaks into your house jump into your Apache and fire a missile into your house, makes perfect sense  ::)

The Apache helicopter is needed for the individual to protect himself from a tyrannical government but If I understand you correctly the individual doesn't even need that reason.

He should be able to have whatever he is able to afford
Title: Re: Hillary Refuses to Acknowledge Second Amendment Right to Own a Gun
Post by: 240 is Back on June 15, 2016, 09:19:12 AM
Liberal trump is meeting with Nra today. 
He's going to try to talk to them, convince them to give up their due process requirement. 

No way they'll give up such an essential right- ban guns without due process- but now repubs have to agree with Obama and trump, of stand by their beliefs. 

Trump making it harder each day