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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: stuntmovie on April 04, 2006, 09:59:02 PM
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Is it legal to evict an "athlete" from an organization if that athlete competes in another organization's event.
This legal question came up many years ago when the NPC was just getting started and the court ruled that an amateur athlete could compete in any organization he wanted to without harrassment or banishment by another competitive organization.
I don't think that that court addressed the professional side of that question because it was assumed that professional bodybuilders were under contract to participate within one organization only.
I am not of a legal mind, but it would appear that the IFBB would only have a legal leg to stand on if the competitors were limited to "invitees" only. And they could only banish those who compete in the PDI who are under contract to compete within the IFBB only.
Any legal opinions here? The IFBB could possibly open the doors to a major lawsuit if they choose to castigate competitors who desire to "cross over" between both organizations.
Could be an interesting situation to keep track of.
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Yes, that sounds interesting. How much can athletes be restricted from competing when they are only considered independent contracting. Is the IFBB using a "covenant-not-to-compete" clause, or something entirely different?
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IFBB is a non profit canadian organization. They *have* to let qualified pros compete.
Pro Division, Inc is a privately held business. They can fire athletes that show up looking like Jocelyn or the "new" shawn ray.
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:D that settles that now the Ifbb will burn in hell and PDI will reign supreme
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IFBB is a non profit canadian organization. They *have* to let qualified pros compete.
Pro Division, Inc is a privately held business. They can fire athletes that show up looking like Jocelyn or the "new" shawn ray.
Arnold and Jim's show can decide who they want to invite and restrict it to the only.
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Another legal thought of which I know nothing about, but .......... isn't there some "restraint of trade" regulation or series of regulations that would be pertinent here? Arn't there business rules and regulations that apply here?
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"Qualified pros" brings up another interesting thought.
It appears that the PDI will recognize a competitor as a "pro" who was determined to be a pro within the IFBB, but will the IFBB reciprocate and recognize those athletes who become pros within the PDI as eligible pros in IFBB contests?
Getting dizzy thinking about all these possible ramifications.
I think some lawyers are going to be making a lot of money soon.
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Good question. As with SAG you are a member of a union. You cannot do any shows or programs outside of a SAG affiliated gig. If you do you can suffer as much as banishment (like I was warned about). Being a member of the IFBB is really nothing more than a being a member of a "club", like when you join a gym that doesn't mean you can only be a member of that gym. You can join any gym you want. You still pay dues, you have to follow the rules but they don't decided where you can train. They can kick you out of the IFBB you decided to compete in the PDI, if that is a clause in their contract. Just like the Weider contract I would expect. It might say you can only compete in the IFBB or NPC. If you compete in another organization yo could get kicked out. But, I can't see anyone of sound mind signing a contract that totally prohibts them from competiting n another organization and suffering a fine of dollar value. That is just dumb. It would be interesting to hear from Lee who is both an IFBB pro and sponsored to see what penalities are invlved
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Good question. As with SAG you are a member of a union. You cannot do any shows or programs outside of a SAG affiliated gig. If you do you can suffer as much as banishment (like I was warned about). Being a member of the IFBB is really nothing more than a being a member of a "club", like when you join a gym that doesn't mean you can only be a member of that gym. You can join any gym you want. You still pay dues, you have to follow the rules but they don't decided where you can train. They can kick you out of the IFBB you decided to compete in the PDI, if that is a clause in their contract. Just like the Weider contract I would expect. It might say you can only compete in the IFBB or NPC. If you compete in another organization yo could get kicked out. But, I can't see anyone of sound mind signing a contract that totally prohibts them from competiting n another organization and suffering a fine of dollar value. That is just dumb. It would be interesting to hear from Lee who is both an IFBB pro and sponsored to see what penalities are invlved
I am pretty sure there is a clause (at least that is what I was told when I was young ;D) in the contract. Problem is if you don't sign then you can't compete. Lee will no doubt be banned, but I give him credit where it is due.
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if it fails im sure ifbb will take him back and if not he could always race cars
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if it fails im sure ifbb will take him back and if not he could always race cars
He is making a good living in endorsements as well.
(http://botit.botany.wisc.edu/toms_fungi/images/lucky2.jpg)
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If Weider or the IFBB is paying an athlete $40,000 to $60,000 or more to abide by a mutually agreed upon contract, then that athlete would be obligated to abide by that agreement and not enter outside events if that is part of the agreement.
But if an athlete does not have such a contract, he should be allowed to compete in any organization's event that he wishes to enter without interference by anyone.
I don't believe that each of the IFBB athletes are ever offered a contract of any sorts from any IFBB organization or affiliate; so I have to assume that the IFBB has no power to tell anyone not under contract what they can or cannot do unless it strictly pertains to their performance within that contest itself.
Make sense???
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"Qualified pros" brings up another interesting thought.
It appears that the PDI will recognize a competitor as a "pro" who was determined to be a pro within the IFBB, but will the IFBB reciprocate and recognize those athletes who become pros within the PDI as eligible pros in IFBB contests.
Getting dizzy thinking about all these possible ramifications.
I can answer that for you right now...no.
There are a few avenues one can be recognized by the IFBB and gain pro status.
1. win a "pro qualifier" i.e.- the USA, Nationals, N.American, etc
2. win a IFBB affiliated pro qualifier i.e.- a different countries national championship
3. win thee World championships
The IFBB will NOT recognize another "pro" from another "federation" because there are no standards that are recognized by the IFBB. For example..the "PDI" is neither a federation, nor do they have any standards of gaining pro status (at least as of yet). Right now, they are just giving away pro cards to whoever they wish....
If Lee Priest, however, hypothetically were to go and compete in the PDI...the PDI folded after a year, and Lee wanted to compete in the IFBB again....he would still be recognized as a professional by his original qualification to gain pro status in the IFBB. (whether he would be allowed back in, etc is a different topic)
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all the other pros who dont fair well in shows should just give pdi a chance.... you too bob ;)
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Chick, as an independent thinking athlete, would you ever consider jumping to the PDI if the IFBB collapsed?
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I can answer that for you right now...no.
There are a few avenues one can be recognized by the IFBB and gain pro status.
1. win a "pro qualifier" i.e.- the USA, Nationals, N.American, etc
2. win a IFBB affiliated pro qualifier i.e.- a different countries national championship
3. win thee World championships
The IFBB will NOT recognize another "pro" from another "federation" because there are no standards that are recognized by the IFBB. For example..the "PDI" is neither a federation, nor do they have any standards of gaining pro status (at least as of yet). Right now, they are just giving away pro cards to whoever they wish....
If Lee Priest, however, hypothetically were to go and compete in the PDI...the PDI folded after a year, and Lee wanted to compete in the IFBB again....he would still be recognized as a professional by his original qualification to gain pro status in the IFBB. (whether he would be allowed back in, etc is a different topic)
Would you help Lee regain his status with the IFBB?
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If Lee Priest, however, hypothetically were to go and compete in the PDI...the PDI folded after a year, and Lee wanted to compete in the IFBB again....he would still be recognized as a professional by his original qualification to gain pro status in the IFBB. (whether he would be allowed back in, etc is a different topic)
Thats nothing new really
But do you think the IFBB has the stronghold it did before
And I believe Wayne is 'respected' by a lot of the senior athletes
http://golfaustralia.blogspot.com (http://golfaustralia.blogspot.com)
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Would you help Lee regain his status with the IFBB?
Chick is rep for all the athletes. I'm sure he would fight very hard for Lee, if he chose to compete in both federations.
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Chick is rep for all the athletes. I'm sure he would fight very hard for Lee, if he chose to compete in both federations.
I hope he would, but I'm not so sure. What do you say, Bob?
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i thinks he's doing cardio "as seen on internet broadcast"
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..the "PDI" is neither a federation, nor do they have any standards of gaining pro status (at least as of yet). Right now, they are just giving away pro cards to whoever they wish....
Not true
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Thanks, Bob.I do know how IFBB pros are determined but that was all decided upon before the new kid came on the block.
Is there any possibility of "PDI pro recognition" by the IFBB when and if the PDI proves successful? Probably way too early to answer that, but it could prove interesting.
Another possibility here could be that the IFBB and the PDI would mutually co-exist and hold the "Inter-Steller Championships" between IFBB and PDI champions each year at the Mandalay
Bay.
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Another possibility here could be that the IFBB and the PDI would mutually co-exist and hold the "Inter-Steller Championships" between IFBB and PDI champions each year at the Mandalay
Bay.
Yeah and I'm going to win the lottery this week. ;D
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Chick, as an independent thinking athlete, would you ever consider jumping to the PDI if the IFBB collapsed?
lol........chick does what he is told so he can keep his paycheck.
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Thanks, Bob.I do know how IFBB pros are determined but that was all decided upon before the new kid came on the block.
Is there any possibility of "PDI pro recognition" by the IFBB when and if the PDI proves successful? Probably way too early to answer that, but it could prove interesting.
Another possibility here could be that the IFBB and the PDI would mutually co-exist and hold the "Inter-Steller Championships" between IFBB and PDI champions each year at the Mandalay
Bay.
Wouldn't that be exciting? No, no it wouldn't.
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Another possibility here could be that the IFBB and the PDI would mutually co-exist and hold the "Inter-Steller Championships" between IFBB and PDI champions each year at the Mandalay
Bay.
seems like all industries tend towards consolidation if unregulated . . . only one NBA, NFL, MLB . . . they don't need to acknowledge arena football and the like.
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This is moving too fast to comment in logical order, but if the situation ever arose where Lee wanted to re-enter the IFBB; I don't think it would be disallowed, but I would sure be surprised if the judges or the organization were thoroughly impartial to anyone who "jumped ship" while it was running aground or appeared to be doing so.
(Notice I did not say, "sinking" because I don't think that is the actual case here.)
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The IFBB isn't sinking.
However, Wayne DeMilia did see there was a growing market of disenfranchised fans who were unhappy with the guts, the fix being in, etc. All those fans from the early 90s were just in hibernation, waiting.
Wayne's giving them a reason so come back.
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This is moving too fast to comment in logical order, but if the situation ever arose where Lee wanted to re-enter the IFBB; I don't think it would be disallowed, but I would sure be surprised if the judges or the organization were thoroughly impartial to anyone who "jumped ship" while it was running aground or appeared to be doing so.
(Notice I did not say, "sinking" because I don't think that is the actual case here.)
IMO he would be allowed back in after paying a fine and then placed a few places too low for a while. Hasn't this been done before? ;D
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Disgusted - Good "winning the lottery" statement as short as it was, BUT ....... somebody always wins it.
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Disgusted - Good "winning the lottery" statement as short as it was, BUT ....... somebody always wins it.
You got a point bro. ;D
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Any lawyers in this group who can enlighten us on this subject?
Does any organization have the right to control the actions of its members if they are not under a contractual arrangement?
If not,why not?
If so,why so?
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On 21 January 1983, in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Tennessee, a judgment order was entered that prohibited a physique federation, from penalizing, punishing, or “interfering in any way” with any member who participates in another federation's physique contest. Such participation includes entry into, promotion of such a contest, or officiating at a contest. In addition, that federal court order stated that the federation may not “condone, ratify or facilitate, or permit such actions by any member or affiliate of the federation . . .” It also required the federation to “take all steps reasonably necessary to remedy any” such prohibited conduct. The right of all athletes to participate in competition without fear of interference from other organizations has thus been reaffirmed in federal court.
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On 21 January 1983, in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Tennessee, a judgment order was entered that prohibited a physique federation, from penalizing, punishing, or “interfering in any way” with any member who participates in another federation's physique contest. Such participation includes entry into, promotion of such a contest, or officiating at a contest. In addition, that federal court order stated that the federation may not “condone, ratify or facilitate, or permit such actions by any member or affiliate of the federation . . .” It also required the federation to “take all steps reasonably necessary to remedy any” such prohibited conduct. The right of all athletes to participate in competition without fear of interference from other organizations has thus been reaffirmed in federal court.
Was this for amatuers only?
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the fix being in, etc.
Is Wayne saying that these alleged "fixes" have only been happening since he left the IFBB or was he part of them while he was in charge?
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TK, thank you! That is exactly the case I was thinking of in an earlier post. I did receive such a letter back then informing me of that court decision.
BUT......
I seem to recall that that court decision pertained to amateur events only and had no bearing on the IFBB Pros whatsoever.
That could have been due to the fact that the court assumed that Professional Bodybuilders were working within the consentual constraints of a legal contract, which is definitely NOT the case in most situations today (nor even back then).
More likely - the IFBB subject was not even brought up in the subject court.
And I don't recall the IFBB ever being legally challanged in that regards but I could be wrong.
Thanks for your clarifying input but I still feel that it applied to amateur organizations only.
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First of all, the IFBB isn't going anywhere. The situation is that the PDI has a number of announcements and people are talking about it, giving the illusion that the PDI is a powerful force against the IFBB. That is not the case. The PDI is a few press releases, and some athletes that, until we actually see a contest and them actually competing in it, is just a bunch of words. To that extent, I wish the PDI the best in trying to become an alternate for the IFBB. I don't think Wayne nor others want the fact to use the PDI to attack the IFBB. That isn't fair.
For many of us, the IFBB represents a way of generating income and supporting bodybuilding. The shows, whether the Arnold, the Olympia, and others bring fans, vendors, gym owners, trainers, store owners and much more into an area to socialize and build up. Many companies owe and respect what the IFBB has brought to us all.
We can complain about it, it is a free speech to do so, but we must acknowledge that it too has brought us some of the best contests under that organization. Still, we can debate that in another thread.
Now, in terms of the previous statement, I beleive that it applies only to 'amatuer' organizations that do not give any money to their athlete. If an athlete from the NPC wants to compete in another Amatuer contest like the PDI qualifiers, I beleive they can without any problems based on that ruling above. However, that is not for me to decide, ask someone who really knows the rules.
Now, pros are an entirely different manner. Once you get money from an organization, and you agree to be a part of that organization, by signing your IFBB pro card, you agree to a number of rules and distinctions. Albiet, they have to be fair, and not hurt your chances of making a living. If you, as a pro, decide to compete in the PDI, then you are not following the IFBB rules, and you can be suspended and not be allowed in any IFBB event. And that is for. You have made your choice to compete in the IFBB Pro League, or the PDI Pro Division.
Now if an athlete decides to go to an event that is by the PDI, there should be no problems, provided that he represents the IFBB, and makes no distinction that he is there to represent the PDI. The same way that an Arena Football player can go an check out an NFL football game. In fact, an IFBB athlete should go to the PDI and wear an IFBB shirt.
Obviously, this is the single most talked about topic this week, because of the press releases out there, and the curiousity of this. Even the Pro Bodybuilding Radio show talked about it.
As for Bob Chick, I will say it again, he does have a good opinion and has fine points regarding the PDI, and has always proven to be one who cares about bodybuilding.
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Actaully I don't recall the IFBB ever being challenged with legal action except this one time (at band camp) and it had to do with diuretic testing. They backed down pretty quick from what I hear. ;D
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The PDI is a few press releases, and some athletes that, until we actually see a contest and them actually competing in it, is just a bunch of words.
You're starting to sound like someone we all know. ;)
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Disgusted,
You are right. Even you can acknowledge that statement. When there is more, then there is more. When I see someone get a PDI Pro card, when I see a contest being done - then there is news to cover. Not someone saying I choose to get a PDI Pro Card. So me a list - an official list. Then it is news.
Once again, I am not saying the PDI is not going to have it's contests, or that the athletes will be pros there, I am just saying that lets see when things actually come to frutation. I wish the PDI the best. But in order for it to be news - there has to be an official web site, official promoters, official sponsors, official pro list, ec.
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Disgusted,
You are right. Even you can acknowledge that statement. When there is more, then there is more. When I see someone get a PDI Pro card, when I see a contest being done - then there is news to cover. Not someone saying I choose to get a PDI Pro Card. So me a list - an official list. Then it is news.
Once again, I am not saying the PDI is not going to have it's contests, or that the athletes will be pros there, I am just saying that lets see when things actually come to frutation. I wish the PDI the best. But in order for it to be news - there has to be an official web site, official promoters, official sponsors, official pro list, ec.
I'm pretty sure that Bob wrote this.
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Disgusted,
You are right. Even you can acknowledge that statement. When there is more, then there is more. When I see someone get a PDI Pro card, when I see a contest being done - then there is news to cover. Not someone saying I choose to get a PDI Pro Card. So me a list - an official list. Then it is news.
Once again, I am not saying the PDI is not going to have it's contests, or that the athletes will be pros there, I am just saying that lets see when things actually come to frutation. I wish the PDI the best. But in order for it to be news - there has to be an official web site, official promoters, official sponsors, official pro list, ec.
I disagree Ron, it is news and they don't have to have a website. How many here ever go the the IFBB's website? I'm not saying that a website will not help, but so far they have managed to cause quite a stir with just a few announcments and have at least one pro make an official announcement. I'm sure that Lee has been talking to Wayne for a long time and that he is secure in the fact that it will and is becoming a reality. Wayne has been very busy the past year planning all these shows. He is doing what really counts and not building a pretty website that would mean nothing for now. As far as promoters and sponsers go, you secure them first and announce then later. I'm sure wWayne will announce them when he sees fit. Like I said before, just becasue "we" don't know doesn't mean it isn't happening.
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ROn, I agree with your recent post but have to question one thing that you stated for clarification purposes.
I can fully understand a man's loyalty to an organization if he has a contract with that organization. No question about that.
But my question here is ...... is that same individual obligated to show complete loyalty to that organization and no others once he signs on to become a member of that organization?
Is there a statement on that membership application which obligates the athlete solely to that organization?
Wouldn't that "member" have to be compensated in some manner for surrendering his loyalty to that organization.
Is a membership form some type of enforceable contract?
To me a membership within an organization simply asks me to abide by the rules while I am participating in the functions promoted by that organization. Once I leave that competitive venue, that membership has no control over my actions.
That is where I am confused. I take no sides here, but am interested in foreseeing all the eventualities and forecasting./identifying future problems.
Thanks
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Hey! Great to have an intelligent conversation here with no flair-ups and anger statements.
Hope it continues in that manner.
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To me a membership within an organization simply asks me to abide by the rules while I am participating in the functions promoted by that organization. Once I leave that competitive venue, that membership has no control over my actions.
Good points..
Yes - a membership within an organization does abide you by their rules, competitive or non competitive. As in being in a fraternity, you abide by certain rules, pay dues, and argree to a code of conduct. I don't have to stay in that organization, but as long as I do, I abide by their rules. I cannot for instance, join two different fraternities - that isn't allowed. And if you are part of that organization, you cannot do certain things or get kicked out. I remember one year, we put up a party flyer saying "See Jane. See Dick join AEPi. See Jane want Dick" and actually got in trouble with the university. We were warned. Now, If I chose to leave, I can do what ever I want. And there was a code of conduct there.
Wouldn't that "member" have to be compensated in some manner for surrendering his loyalty to that organization. Is a membership form some type of enforceable contract?
Ford employee is Detroit are encouraged to have Ford cards. If you have a diferent car, aka a Honda or Toyota, you are frowned upon, and even made to park in a different lot far away. Is that fair? Loyalty to a brand, whether it is a company, brand, or federation does matter.
In many groups, federations, cllubs, sports entities, there are rules. Whether it is Bowling, Badmitten, Surfing, Pro Volleyball, Handball, Table Tennis or any other non-major sport (I love it when they compare bodybuilding to some huge sport), there are rules. None of the players are paid by these organizations, but they are members.
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Yes, Ron, I see your point, but those rules only apply while you are playing that particular sport. Those rules do not apply when you shower up and leave the stadium and go play another game on another court.
And I bet ya a first year lawyer would have a field day with Ford Motors.
I can see your point regarding fraternity membership but if I join Gold's, what would be their legal right to prevent me from joining 24 Hours too?
Sorry to be so long winded on this subject matter, but I find it pretty interesting and have a feeling that improper decisions could be pushed into a court of law which is simply a major expense for all parties. "Good night and good luck!" (Just saw that movie.)
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stuntmovie-
The answer you're looking for is "yes".
...much like the NFL, MLB, etc. you cannot just go play for another league when the season is over. Yes, I realize that they are getting paid by the team itself, not neccessarily the NFL per se...but the general concept is the same and they don't even own the rights to their own likeness/ team number, etc. Those are licensing rights retained by the team and NFL, MLB, etc.
As an amatuer, no, there are no restrictions as many athletes jump from one federation to another...as amatuers, there is nothing to hold them to....as a professional athlete- part of a league, group, federation, club...whatever the semantic calls for, you are bound by their rules and reg...thats what you agree to when you sign the dotted line to be part of the program, and recognized as a professional.
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I'm still reading but the official website in prodivisioninc.com It is being developed as we type. It is not done yet. That is also one reason I'm sure Wayne does not have an wayne@prodivisioninc.com email. The site is being developed by a very large web developer and it will be very nice. They have changed it a few times since starting to make sure its right.
And to even say that because they don't have an official website they basically don't exist was wrong. Like someone said have you seen the IFBB website. They definitely do not take the internet seriously. That is defintiely a site $300 could easily have paid for.
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I like it when Chic is nice. Anyway, the major sports do pay the players. MLB, NFL, NBA, pay the players through a revenue sharing agreement. The money that is made from licensed goods and other forms of income that is paid to the leagues are divided between teams and players.
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Sorry guys, you just cannot compare the IFBB to other legitimate sport leagues. No offense, but turning pro in the "mainstream sports" actually means something. You're likely to at least get a spot on the bench or a practice squad and earn something. In the IFBB who makes money from turning pro? NOBODY. There are no benefits whatsoever.
I am all for loyalty. But if the IFBB doesn't give a shit about me.....I'm out. Afterall, one has to look out for itself. I don't get why some people here won't even acknowledge that there just may be some competition soon. This is better for bbing. Better for the competitors. More opportunities for the pros.
The IFBB is a joke. I am glad we will soon have an alternative.
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Exactly Gordo. Wayne is giving the BB's another avenue to make money and have a carrear. And all some guys can do on here is put it down. How can you put something down that hasn't happened. The IFBB has been around and has a huge history of screwing guys. If Wayne wanted to continue to screw BB's and take advantage of them he would have stayed with the IFBB. but, he wants improve things so he started the PDI.
There is no way the IFBB can stop any IFBB pro to watch or be part of the PDI events. I can't see anyone signing an agreement to give up all their rights like that.
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is there expressed exclusivity agreement
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.....The IFBB has been around and has a huge history of screwing guys. If Wayne wanted to continue to screw BB's and take advantage of them he would have stayed with the IFBB. but, he wants improve things so he started the PDI. ......
Wait a minute, wasn't Wayne an important part that "huge history of screwing guys" set up for over two decades until he fell out with the new powers that be at IFBB? Since when has he become the Knight in Shining Armor who is going to save everything? ???
What is Wayne going to do differently, at PDI, that he did at IFBB for all those years he was in charge (which was until pretty recently)?
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Is it legal to evict an "athlete" from an organization if that athlete competes in another organization's event.
This legal question came up many years ago when the NPC was just getting started and the court ruled that an amateur athlete could compete in any organization he wanted to without harrassment or banishment by another competitive organization.
I don't think that that court addressed the professional side of that question because it was assumed that professional bodybuilders were under contract to participate within one organization only.
I am not of a legal mind, but it would appear that the IFBB would only have a legal leg to stand on if the competitors were limited to "invitees" only. And they could only banish those who compete in the PDI who are under contract to compete within the IFBB only.
Any legal opinions here? The IFBB could possibly open the doors to a major lawsuit if they choose to castigate competitors who desire to "cross over" between both organizations.
Could be an interesting situation to keep track of.
the IFBB could always go Aaron baker on someones ass...i mean dood had a back as detailed and much bigger and deepers than flex's..and he NEVER placed...he ws O material..and couldn't crack top 10 many times...
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Chick, thanks for your latest input on this subject matter. Always good to hear your comments.
Here is my present opinion which I think will prove to be the case as time progresses ......
A. IFBB bodybuilders who have contracts with the IFBB (and that means financial consideration) will be obliged to compete within IFBB events only or suffer the consequences if they fail to do so.
The question here is ...... How many IFBB bodybuilders have valid contracts with the IFBB?
B. IFBB bodybuilders who do not have contracts with the IFBB will be free to compete in any organization they chose without "noticeable retaliation" by the IFBB.
In that case it would be a simple matter of making it difficult for any crossover to do well.
This freedom of choice would take a while to be the norm, but it could be the way things are done if both organizations (and possibly three) are still in business in the next few years.
C. In the meantime expect to hear a few dozen rumors and facts regarding some officials' attempts to "pursuade" major contributors to avoid working with one organization or another. I am sure that some of you guys are knowledgeable of such incidences already ....... "Support such and such and don't bother coming to the ______ contest again!" Or forget those comped tickets you have been receiving since 1992. Or no more decent booth space for you, fella!
There will be a lot of that going on in an attempt to gain the advantage.
In the long run we should be seeing a different picture wherein everyone benefits in one form or another ....... the athletes, the fans, the promoters, and even the individual organizatons.
Competition within the marketplace is good for everyone even if you have to fight to make it a reality.
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Another interesting point, Goatboy ....... Would it be possible for suppliment companies to give contracts to athletes that forces them to enter one organization's events only?
I ask this because it would be a "good way" for an organization to "encourage" suppliment companies to add such a clause or face banishment from the organization's contests, events, and coverage.
I think we could be seeing this kind of activity in the not too distance months to come.
I bet some interesting discussions are underway already.
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To be evicted you have to be an "athlete".....but there's one problem...
BODYBUILDERS ARE NOT ATHLETES ::)!
Get it right, this is starting to get repetitive.
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If an athlete is signed with Weiner then obviously he will not let them go do the PDI without whatever ramifications follow. An IFBB pro who is not under contract with Weiner can do as he pleases. Like in Lee's case, his sponsor said fine go ahead. We have invested $100,000 last year in IFBB shows and got nothing. DIdn't even go to all of the shows so what do we have to lose if they don't allow us in as sponsors anymore who cares we save a $100,000. So Lee go ahead we will support you no matter what. The funny thing many other companies are doing the same. They don't see any advantage of staying exclusivily with the IFBB and the Weiners. If the IFBB and the Weiners don't want to take their sponsorship money cause they are supporting the PDI then fine. What can they lose.
MD and MM did an article apiece on Wayne and the PDI. 7 and 8 pages articles coming out in May or June. They see a story and a big one. If AMI don't want to do stories on PDI fine. WHo cares. AMI is getting ut of the BB industry anyway. They are losing money with it. They are selling off their 50% of the olympia, that is just the start.
And plus, any amateur NPC or IFBB can join the PDI. And nothing can happen.
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If Wayne wanted to continue to screw BB's and take advantage of them he would have stayed with the IFBB. but, he wants improve things so he started the PDI.
So you do admit that he screwed the bodybuilders when he was part of the IFBB but you now believe that he has changed for the better? Or does he want to improve his screwing?
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PDI is going to want to make money. While I think its great there will be some competition for the IFBB, and more options for the BB, I hope someone really savvy goes into bat for these guys when they are drawing up the provisions for the BB's.
Dont think it will make much difference to the BB if the IFBB screws or them or Wayne does the honours. The more competition for the top level BB's the more the competitions will have to woo them to get them to compete in their events. The BB have power. The fact they are too busy bitching at each other and trying to earn a living has seen them become pawns in a big chess game where money is being made, just not by them(except for a few). As I said, I hope someone savvy to BB helps negotiate the deal. There wouldnt be an IFBB if the athletes didnt put up with it.
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So you do admit that he screwed the bodybuilders when he was part of the IFBB but you now believe that he has changed for the better? Or does he want to improve his screwing?
Dammit Kevin quit quoting me. It means I have to answer you. I am saying because of all the negative stuff that is being said about how the BBs were screwed that I am sure that some of it is true. And with Wayne being the front man I am also sure he had to do what he had to do. If he had a choice whether not to do something wrong then I truly believe he would have gone that route. But he had a job and he had a carreer to look out for, so sometimes you have to bite the bullet and do it. Now, if what he did was so wrong and shitty then why did the BB's keep doing his shows. Why did Shawn after getting DQ keep coming back and competting. If Wayne ripped money off then why not file suit, why keep entering his shows. Why?
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I mostly keep my feelings to my self, but since I have nothing to loose now.....
If the NPC didn't GIVE away PROCARDS to figure competitors for placing in the JR USA, AND make guys like me plug away YEAR after YEAR...then I would never have left.
Not for nothing but I have won my class in the Jr USA, Jr Nationals, and the USA....all I can do with that was get a better seat to WATCH a pro show...lol
the rules are insulting to me and my fellow competitors who have been at this game for a long time...winning Jr national level shows, and placing top 2 to 5 in the USA or the NATIONALS, THEN have a girl place in the Jr USA and turn pro....JUST NOT RIGHT.
Not to mention some of the bbers who turn "pro" but don't really deserve to. Cards are given away all the time. We usually see these guys at the NY shows. Lots of folks who do not belong on a pro stage. Much better competitors at the regional and even local events. Sorry, but it is the truth.
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If the NPC didn't GIVE away PROCARDS to figure competitors for placing in the JR USA, AND make guys like me plug away YEAR after YEAR...then I would never have left.
I agree with you there. They are saturating the 'figure' division IMO....1 show alone gives out 12 pro cards :-\
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Figure brings money to the NPC. If you can get 200 girls to step on stage at any given national level show, the NPC makes money. By giving a pro card to any girl with implants who doesn't have cellulite, you get even more girls to step on stage.
Manion is now the man in the IFBB too, so he can help dictate the number of figure pro cards. The more figure pro cards, the more NPC competitors.....IE: the more money for him.
It is pretty sad at this point though.....it's getting to the point where if you've lifted weights for 6 months, and aren't a figure pro....something is wrong.
The funniest thing is when figure girls complain about the placings....as if the judges are even paying attention when they're on stage.
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:o
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Woah- there's 2 of you!!!!!!!!!!!
Hot :)
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>:(
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I propose some kind of webcam wrestling match to determine who should keep the name.
I can set this website up for free :)
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VGalanti, I'm not entirely familiar with your situation, but could it be that the IFBB only needs so many Pro bodybuilders to run all the Pro shows each year?
Could it be that too many Pros in one organization is not good for the overall functioning of that organization?
So in order to benefit the organization, they allow for more of less qualifiers on an as required basis.
Kind of like ajusting the Prime Interest Rate each quarter.
Allow more people to qualify as Pros where you need them and make it more difficult to qualify as a Pro where you don't.
Does anyone have any idea of the ideal number of Pros that would be needed to establish the perfect situation for a bodybuilding organization? A smaller number of Pros would allow for more and larger "payoffs" while a larger number of Pros would dilute the "pay-pool".
If the PDI is successful, they could be working with more Pros than are actually needed.
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Also, from what a friend told me (who is an IFBB official) just other day, is one reason why so few make the pros in BB is that it controls the money and increases profits and competition in the amateur ranks. You have to figure that if they gave away to many pro cards that the NPC shows would suffer greatly from lack of competitors and real quality competitors. They know that if a guy truly deserved to win his pro card but doens't that he will come back and compete and creat a buzz the following year or years and plus have to pay his dues again and again. Plus could you imgaine if they gave cards to all the guys who really deserve the card. The following years competitions would look like shit. They have to keep some quality in the amatuer ranks.
And Vince, you are still an amateur. You can enter both PDI and NPC events. They absolutely cannot control that. As a Pro in the PDI it has no bearing on your NPC staus. Ask Wayne we talked about it yesterday. Now, what would probably happen though is Manion will be pissed off and make sure you don't do very well at their shows. Or on the flip side they may make it so you win (deserved or not) just so you can then be an IFBB Pro and hopefully leave the PDI. It is a crap shoot to be sure.
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The PDI is a business- they are legally allowed to fire anyone at any time. They can tell a guy like Bob Chick that he doesn't have the caliber of physique needed to compete at a pro level, and not let him in. The IFBB (and master's O) has to let such a fussypot compete.
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The PDI is a business- they are legally allowed to fire anyone at any time. They can tell a guy like Bob Chick that he doesn't have the caliber of physique needed to compete at a pro level, and not let him in. The IFBB (and master's O) has to let such a fussypot compete.
So Bob Chick doesnt have the caliber of physique to compete in the PDI ? ::) I think so too, but for the opposing reason ;) ;D. I think such will be the standards of the PDI that even someone like you would be able to place in the top 6
Then again even I dont want to underestimate the PDI THAT much ;)
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The PDI is a business- they are legally allowed to fire anyone at any time. They can tell a guy like Bob Chick that he doesn't have the caliber of physique needed to compete at a pro level, and not let him in. The IFBB (and master's O) has to let such a fussypot compete.
Can somebody explain to me why this is a benefit for the Athletes competitors. ???
This would be a really nice and neat way to get rid of trouble makers or union supporters. >:(
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I do know that in the PDI the BB's will have a better experience. They will have the opportunity to travel and compete and win money. There are plenty ofguys out there who could easily be in the IFBB who aren't and will do very well in the PDI. Why be in an organization that you won't go anywhere in when now there is an alternative to be able to do something and get rewarded for all the hard work. I don't see a downside.
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VGalanti, I'm not entirely familiar with your situation, but could it be that the IFBB only needs so many Pro bodybuilders to run all the Pro shows each year?
Could it be that too many Pros in one organization is not good for the overall functioning of that organization?
So in order to benefit the organization, they allow for more of less qualifiers on an as required basis.
Kind of like ajusting the Prime Interest Rate each quarter.
Allow more people to qualify as Pros where you need them and make it more difficult to qualify as a Pro where you don't.
Does anyone have any idea of the ideal number of Pros that would be needed to establish the perfect situation for a bodybuilding organization? A smaller number of Pros would allow for more and larger "payoffs" while a larger number of Pros would dilute the "pay-pool".
If the PDI is successful, they could be working with more Pros than are actually needed.
Ask Jaguar......she's got money making schemes down cold........ :-X
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htey'll be able to compete in the IFBB //like aaron baker ws about to 'compete'... ::)
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It will probably get ugly.
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Sean M's an "expert" at poorly concealing his agenda.
why don't you tell us what you think first, sean? or would that be too bold a move? why not let a bunch of getbiggers do your dirty work for you?
Of course, if people like Jack London (and Vinny G, who I don't want to bag on as he seems like a good guy) are PDI athletes, any reasonable fan will look askance at the PDI. Jack clearly could not cut it in the NPC, and to recognize him as "pro" would undermine the IFBB's already shaky credibility (look at any of the 3rd tier IFBB bbs--they would not ever place in an NPC pro qualifier).
therefore, the IFBB will not, and should not, have reciprocity with an organization that opens with and appears to want to play a weak hand.
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Yes, they should be allowed to compete in any show. We know that PDI will start with a base of NABBA Wabba and Yabba Dabba doo guys. Probably even some top amatuers that arent worthy.
But so what?? If they clog the stage, they wont make it past the first round in pre-judging.
Meanwhile the promoters will be competing for attendance at their shows....so theyll raise prizemoney and make sure they have thier crap together, or the fans will remember.
The IFBB wont want to look worse than PDI and vice versa.
This will mean more shows in more localities and increase exposure of the sport (sic).
Remember, your next door neighbor doesnt know the difference between Mr delaware or mr Universe. So the fan base can be built.................an d .........Im spent...Grrrrr Baby.!
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Sean M's an "expert" at poorly concealing his agenda.
why don't you tell us what you think first, sean? or would that be too bold a move?
Of course, if people like Jack London (and Vinny G, who I don't want to bag on as he seems like a good guy) are PDI athletes, any reasonable fan will look askance at the PDI. Jack clearly could not cut it in the NPC, and to recognize him as "pro" would undermine the IFBB's already shaky credibility (look at any of the 3rd tier IFBB bbs--they would not ever place in an NPC pro qualifier).
therefore, the IFBB will not, and should not, have reciprocity with an organization that opens with and appears to want to play a weak hand.
That's why it cracks me up when people call Chick a third tier pro. They are so off-base. A real third tier pro is someone who doesn't even look good at all. Those guys who place 17th at the New York and look worse than if they had never trained at all.
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No agenda... of course I don't think they should (at this juncture). Depending on the PDI's growth, along with it's proposed amateur division, I do see how this could possibly change, similar as to how it was in the late 60's early 70's.
things could change in the future, but it's an inauspicious beginning to extend "Pro" status to competitors who could not make the cut in the NPC. NOC competitors should have been vetted by coming up through an "amateur division," or even the proposed "Pro qualifiers." Maybe DeMilia was operating under some mistaken notion of his current "signees" marketability.
Unfortunately, credibility once lost is almost impossible to regain.
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You guys are missing the point. The goal is to market to the public in general....you say 3rd tier pro and crap....but read my post above. Get more shows out there. Your ideas of what a tier pro is will come falling down. The general masses wont give a sh*t.
It will only be frustrating to us cuz were entrenched with preconcieved notions of what a pro should look like. If they can do 25 shows or whatever....you can bet the IFBB or AMI will pick up the pace in a hurry. Only good can come from this.
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bodybuilding isn't supposed to be mainstream............ it's a cult/freak sport and it needs to remain that way.
if you wanna call it men's figure then go ahead......... but real bodybuilding is seeing/being the most developed bodies on the planet.
bodybuilding isn't socially exceptable and that's what makes it great.
why would average bodybuilders be more marketable than the current batch of pros??
demilia is a great promoter and knows what he's doing but i don't know what he's thinking with this thing.
thats just what i think......i could be wrong.
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This I agree with 100%.
why don't you define what you're calling "good"?
In my line of work, what's good for me, isn't good for everybody.
So tell us who it'll be good for and how.
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bodybuilding isn't supposed to be mainstream............ it's a cult/freak sport and it needs to remain that way.
if you wanna call it men's figure then go ahead......... but real bodybuilding is seeing/being the most developed bodies on the planet.
bodybuilding isn't socially exceptable and that's what makes it great.
why would average bodybuilders be more marketable than the current batch of pros??
demilia is a great promoter and knows what he's doing but i don't know what he's thinking with this thing.
thats just what i think......i could be wrong.
The people who think bodybuilding is gay/vain would not find smaller guys any less gay/vain. I agree with you.
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1: Itll be good to stop the downward trend that AMI is pushing us into. With a monopoly hold on the athletes, they were making it apparant that they were saying " Hey, were gonna use you for covers to sell our supplements and then were going to shit you out when your kidneys fail...and your gonna like it.
Well so be it, but at least the athletes should have a couple nickels in their pockets for the trouble.
2: promoters competing for business.....means better locations and maybe publicity in the local area for the show. If i was a promoter id think of ways to get the guys to my show...thats the point.
3: I never expect BBing to be mainstream...but a little above a Cult would be nice.
4: I could go on and on ......................
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Sean M's an "expert" at poorly concealing his agenda.
why don't you tell us what you think first, sean? or would that be too bold a move? why not let a bunch of getbiggers do your dirty work for you?
Of course, if people like Jack London (and Vinny G, who I don't want to bag on as he seems like a good guy) are PDI athletes, any reasonable fan will look askance at the PDI. Jack clearly could not cut it in the NPC, and to recognize him as "pro" would undermine the IFBB's already shaky credibility (look at any of the 3rd tier IFBB bbs--they would not ever place in an NPC pro qualifier).
therefore, the IFBB will not, and should not, have reciprocity with an organization that opens with and appears to want to play a weak hand.
When you bash me like this, all it does is set you up to look bad. I wonder what you will say when I make you eat those words and beat some of the ifbb crossovers. All I have to do is beat 1, and when I do, your crediblity is out the door.
I just can't wait.
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I'm certain that everyone is in agreement that current IFBB pros should be able to compete in both IFBB and PDI sanctioned competitions. What are your opinions on PDI exclusive pros doing the same? Reasons as to why or why not, please...
Sean, although we have had our differences, you have been a gentleman, and because you questioned it, it will be you I address this point to...
I got my contract bro, signed sealed, and delivered.....
we cool now?
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When you bash me like this, all it does is set you up to look bad. I wonder what you will say when I make you eat those words and beat some of the ifbb crossovers. All I have to do is beat 1, and when I do, your crediblity is out the door.
I just can't wait.
1. In order for the PDI to do any "good," they have to put out a quality product. Right now the PDI's product doesn't look good.
If Richard Jones and Vince Taylor show up in the shape of their lives . . . then the PDI will be viable and attract fans that the IFBB hasn't been targeting in recent years.
An in-shape Lee Priest will also appeal to existing fans.
EDIT: I should have said "a product someone actually wants" instead of a "quality product."
2. I am not bashing you in this thread, so don't start this shit here. Read my comments about the third tier of IFBB pros . . . beating them does nothing.
To be honest, you don't matter for the future of the IFBB, and you're hurting the PDI with the way you look and the way you conduct yourself.
I know you want this b/c its your dream . . . but there is also a bigger picture involved, and deep down you know this too.
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Rhino,
You have to understsand that these PDI bashers and freak worshippers cannot see beyond
what has been drummed into their heads by people who don't think beyond how much they can siphon from the sport. They don't have any conception that there is another standard that can be achieved, or the possibility that the fan base can be expanded by making it more
appealing to mainstream audiences as was the case when women bodybuilding was selling out huge auditoriums during the 80s. Their ignorance is being fueled by pseudo experts and so
called authorities on this site.
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1. In order for the PDI to do any "good," they have to put out a quality product. Right now the PDI's product doesn't look good.
If Richard Jones and Vince Taylor show up in the shape of their lives . . . then the PDI will be viable and attract fans that the IFBB hasn't been targeting in recent years.
An in-shape Lee Priest will also appeal to existing fans.
2. I am not bashing you in this thread, so don't start this shit here. Read my comments about the third tier of IFBB pros . . . beating them does nothing.
To be honest, you don't matter for the future of the IFBB, and you're hurting the PDI with the way you look and the way you conduct yourself.
I know you want this b/c its your dream . . . but there is also a bigger picture involved, and deep down you know this too.
You should listen to yourself......do you really believe this non-sense?
whatever
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Rhino,
You have to understsand that these PDI bashers and freak worshippers cannot see beyond
what has been drummed into their heads by people who don't think beyond how much they can siphon from the sport. They don't have any conception that there is another standard that can be achieved, or the possibility that the fan base can be expanded by making it more
appealing to mainstream audiences as was the case when women bodybuilding was selling out huge auditoriums during the 80s. Their ignorance is being fueled by pseudo experts and so
called authorities on this site.
So very true, but what really kills me is that these so called "experts" attack me personally and otherwise, and when I dish it back to the in defense, they say "you should conduct yourself better"
can you say double standard? Meanwhile I have never attacked anyone, other than in rebuttal..
I don't know why I bother
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I'm not in agreement. I'm of the opinion that the federations should be seperate in order to create decent competition and thus make it better for the athletes in the end.
I actually beleve that the end result will be something akin to what happened to rugby league in australia when this same thing happened.. a few years with two seperate competitions, neither really getting the better of each other before they unified again under a better comp.
I would not be suprised for the PDI to merge with the IFBB to make some new federation in years to come. How much would it take? I suppose if Wayne gets himself a cushy deal he could well pack it in and accept a merge.
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1. In order for the PDI to do any "good," they have to put out a quality product. Right now the PDI's product doesn't look good.
Still 5+ months until the NOC. A lot of guys can switch over by then. Many are waiting to milk the most out of their existing shows and opportunities.
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Still 5+ months until the NOC. A lot of guys can switch over by then. Many are waiting to milk the most out of their existing shows and opportunities.
I'm not disputing this . . .
And Rocket also made some good points about what will happen if the PDI is successful.
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We'll all be surprised who switches from the
TITANIC IFBB come May, when the real NOC returns to NY.
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It will probably get ugly.
That's what I'm saying. Isn't that how it got with the WBF?
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I'm of the opinion that the federations should be seperate in order to create decent competition and thus make it better for the athletes in the end.
I agree 100%, and cannot see, for the life of my, why men like Bob Chick bash the PDI nonstop. The PDI helps athletes on both sides. If you stay with the IFBB, your placings will improve cause some guys will not be competing. If you move to the PDI, you have a huge opportunity to make money riding that initial push from MD to endorsements and show winnings without the guaranteed Coleman-Cutler-Gustavo roadblack at every show.
Only a brainwashed fool would blindly hate on the PDI. The bottom line is, it will ONLY hurt the weiders. Everyone else will likely advance from it- athletes, fans, and sponsors/companies. What is there to lose?
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We'll all be surprised who switches from the TITANIC IFBB come May, when the real NOC returns to NY.
I hope you're right . . . I'd like to think that Sideshow Jack was just a bone thrown to the wolves to start an attention-getting feeding frenzy.
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I agree 100%, and cannot see, for the life of my, why men like Bob Chick bash the PDI nonstop. The PDI helps athletes on both sides. If you stay with the IFBB, your placings will improve cause some guys will not be competing. If you move to the PDI, you have a huge opportunity to make money riding that initial push from MD to endorsements and show winnings without the guaranteed Coleman-Cutler-Gustavo roadblack at every show.
Only a brainwashed fool would blindly hate on the PDI. The bottom line is, it will ONLY hurt the weiders. Everyone else will likely advance from it- athletes, fans, and sponsors/companies. What is there to lose?
read the end of his post . . . the Weiders or their successors will probably wind up laughing all the way to the bank.
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I agree 100%, and cannot see, for the life of my, why men like Bob Chick bash the PDI nonstop. The PDI helps athletes on both sides. If you stay with the IFBB, your placings will improve cause some guys will not be competing. If you move to the PDI, you have a huge opportunity to make money riding that initial push from MD to endorsements and show winnings without the guaranteed Coleman-Cutler-Gustavo roadblack at every show.
Only a brainwashed fool would blindly hate on the PDI. The bottom line is, it will ONLY hurt the weiders. Everyone else will likely advance from it- athletes, fans, and sponsors/companies. What is there to lose?
Well said. The PDI will only make things better. at least for the athletes. A chance to make money is not bad either.
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That's what I'm saying. Isn't that how it got with the WBF?
Even though the WBF failed, it forced changes in the IFBB. I wonder what changes the PDI could bring.
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I hope you're right . . . I'd like to think that Sideshow Jack was just a bone thrown to the wolves to start an attention-getting feeding frenzy.
In the NY times, it said that AMI is LOSING money big time and the investors will have to shell out another $40-50 mill just to keep it aflout and balance out the loss. I'm sure the investors don't want to do that.
AMI has already cut several athletes as a result of non-gross.
This will impact every thing come October. By then, PDI should have made their mark.
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In the NY times, it said that AMI is LOSING money big time and the investors will have to shell out another $40-50 mill just to keep it aflout and balance out the loss. I'm sure the investors don't want to do that.
AMI has already cut several athletes as a result of non-gross.
This will impact every thing come October. By then, PDI should have made their mark.
what do you mean by "cut several athletes"? . . . does this mean that Weider is reducing the no. of athletes they give publication contracts to?
The reports I've seen on AMI didn't mention bb mags. do you have any info on how M&F and Flex are doing? do they own men's fitness too? i guess i could look it up, but i'm too lazy.
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things could change in the future, but it's an inauspicious beginning to extend "Pro" status to competitors who could not make the cut in the NPC. NOC competitors should have been vetted by coming up through an "amateur division," or even the proposed "Pro qualifiers." Maybe DeMilia was operating under some mistaken notion of his current "signees" marketability.
Unfortunately, credibility once lost is almost impossible to regain.
You are wrong. The guys that come from the npc have to have won thier class in the Nationals, USA's or north americans. So they are guys who are proven to be at the top of the NPC. Unless you have won your class in one of those shows you will have to go through the pro qualifiers.
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You are wrong. The guys that come from the npc have to have won thier class in the Nationals, USA's or north americans. So they are guys who are proven to be at the top of the NPC. Unless you have won your class in one of those shows you will have to go through the pro qualifiers.
i'm not following you . . .
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what do you mean by "cut several athletes"? . . . does this mean that Weider is reducing the no. of athletes they give publication contracts to?
The reports I've seen on AMI didn't mention bb mags. do you have any info on how M&F and Flex are doing? do they own men's fitness too? i guess i could look it up, but i'm too lazy.
i heard they let some athletes go or cut their pay. The mag sales are way down. IMO they SUCK! I read that they dropped a few mags too. i don't know which ones, but they did.
Peckerhead is in debt!
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i'm not following you . . .
Any one from the NPC will not be given a Pro card in the PDI unless they have won their class at the nationals, usa's or north americans. If you have placed lower than first in your class at any of those shows you will have to go through the PDI's pro qualifiers.
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Any one from the NPC will not be given a Pro card in the PDI unless they have won their class at the nationals, usa's or north americans. If you have placed lower than first in your class at any of those shows you will have to go through the PDI's pro qualifiers.
so the standards are a little less rigorous than the IFBB's, right?
I think the larger point that i'm trying to make is that you want to make this org work, you need some good athletes. doesn't matter what they've won.
Jocelyn Pelletier is an IFBB pro, after all . . . and him crossing over is not going to do the PDI any good. they need RJ, Lee P, or Vince Taylor caliber people.
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The PDI can tell Pelletier 'no thanks'.
And let's not forget that as a private business, PDI is free to pay athletes to compete as well. The fans may never know how much the PDI athletes are earning. SO it might REALLY be worth it for some guys who are without a weider contract, not placing well cause the fix is always in, to jump.
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i heard they let some athletes go or cut their pay. The mag sales are way down.
They always let guys go when they retire, and they sign new ones. They still have the biggest athletes roll in the biz: Ronnie, Jay, Gunter, Darrem, Phil, Markus, Dennis, and about 20 more. M&F and FLEX still have far and away the biggest sales numbers in the biz. Without them raking in the cash, Pecker would really be in trouble.
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so the standards are a little less rigorous than the IFBB's, right?
I think the larger point that i'm trying to make is that you want to make this org work, you need some good athletes. doesn't matter what they've won.
Jocelyn Pelletier is an IFBB pro, after all . . . and him crossing over is not going to do the PDI any good. they need RJ, Lee P, or Vince Taylor caliber people.
I agree! But most guys who have won thier class at the national level are quality bodybuilders, maybe not at the level of ronnie or jay but few in the sport are.
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I have a feeling that more than likely the investors will be the ones to lose in this situation. The thing that happens with a split competition is generally due to financial incentives athletes will have more power and the shows will be better.. But the strain on attempting to starve out the other federation will show sooner or later, where a loss will be declared in the end (neither side gaining a huge advantage over the other enough) and the competitions will once again merge.
Anyway, its an interesting situation and if Bob Chic is bashing the PDI who really cares.. the truth is someone is going to lose out on this deal so I don't find it hugely suprising that people are against it.
Bodybuilding competition will "suffer" somewhat in that you will not have comparisons with some top pros as they will be seperated by federations but generally the guys competing will get more money and most of us would rather that then specific people onstage at a certain time.
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DeMilia is attacking the IFBB in its soft underbelly. He's tapping into weaknesses in the current professionalization of men from the NPC. There's been a lid on new pro men for years, while they've been professionalizing figure competitors like crazy (up to 12 at individual shows). A number of top NPC competitors have given up & left off competing altogether, & sometimes stopped training. Smaller guys who went pro sometimes didn't even bother to compete, or didn't do it more than a few times. With no weight classes, they're hopelessly outsized. DeMilia needs to hang on long enough to make a go of the PDI. If he does, then we may see a passing of the guard like we did when the AAU gave up the ghost. The Weiders will not be around much longer, & the people they've affiliated with have no interest in bodybuilding except as a way of generating advertising revenue. I say give DeMilia a chance & see what he can do. If nothing else, it will stir the pot quite a bit.
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Another thing that is interesting is the IFBB is a federation and as such can be drug tested at anytime by the government is so ordered. The PDI is an corporation which is not obligated by the same laws when it comes to drug testing. Now I'm not really sure what I said or if I said it right but this is how I kind of remeber it being explained to me by Wayne. I know there was more but I can't really remember half the stuff I'm told.
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So very true, but what really kills me is that these so called "experts" attack me personally and otherwise, and when I dish it back to the in defense, they say "you should conduct yourself better"
can you say double standard? Meanwhile I have never attacked anyone, other than in rebuttal..
I don't know why I bother
dude its not a double standard...you have everything to lose...fan base, endorsement deals ect...What on earth does a no name on the screen have to lose...
For the life of me, i just don't understand the double standard :-\
Lou Ferrigno has a huge fan base and always will however many people on many different boards now see him as a major jackass all because of the talk on the boards...He is known not as a great bodybuilder by alot of people now but a cheap jackass who ripped little kids off...In his case, it probably doesn't matter much for like i said he has a huge fan base but that base isn't growing and i would guess its because of the boards..
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Hey Ron tell everyone about your phone call from the IFBB about PDI on your site.MMMM
Well i am competing in the NOC and i have qualified for the Olympia.So i will do the NOC and if they send the Olympia contract i will sign it its only 2 weeks after the NOC.Lets see if they can act like adults and no children and let people compete where and when they want.
Glad you came back on the board, Lee. You've got some serious balls to sign for the PDI after what happened to the guys who went to the WBF. You're the man! Can't wait for next months dvd . . .
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Hey Ron tell everyone about your phone call from the IFBB about PDI on your site.MMMM
Bump for Ron to tell us all ;D
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Hearing RUMORS that it's not just Ron that's been getting "phone calls" and that more on this will come to light shortly.
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Not from the IFBB but from Manion himself. From what I heard Manion called and threatened to not issue a press pass to Ron if he kept putting PDI stuff on the board. Then Robin Chang called and said Manion doesn't handle press passes, you are okay do what you do you'll have your press passes. Now, this was told to me be and inside IFBB official. Whether true or not gets you thinking. I am just a messenger
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The Plot Thickens!
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Hey Ron tell everyone about your phone call from the IFBB about PDI on your site.
Let's hear it!
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It's probably in Ron's best interest NOT to tell us. If it actually happened, that is.
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Give us the skinny, Ron! :D
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the MAIN factor here is who will stand at the top of the peramid. in other words....as always money talks and rest of the shit is not important because money pulls every one in not muscles! MONEY! money will bring muscles in etc etc. if you take someone rich with head on his shoulders the ifbb (joe and ben) will immidiatly go into a respect mode and accept anything and everything this new federation does period. ofcourse it will have to go 2 ways and there will be 2 major federations in the industry which will with time increase interest in the the sport. it will all happen in time and if not this new pro inc it will be someone else. i assume that this new federation will bring in more pros at the beggining because it's a must for the buildup...i also assume they will bring back more of the smaller more astetic physiqes and that will give a balance to the sport put the ifbb in a temporary shock since more people will be interested in the sport but not to worry! the ifbb will very fast get out of this shock and start adapt to the new reality.
what needed is a person with money and lots of it otherwise nothing will happen and or survive. and im not talking about vince wwf kinda person that thinking in terms of wrestling oriented thoughts. you need someone that think and only think in terms of money. a person like trump or a that prince alwaleed causin of the saudi king or even soem unknown printing/oil corp presidents and owners.
that will bring down the ifbb on to planet earth and will make everything equal. only then the magic will happen. ofcourse we will get payed more. but as i said you got to start somewhere and the new pro corp has to start somewhere and thus the 10 pro cards "given" it must pull bodybuilders into it.....then again nothing will matter if at the top there is not a person with few billion dollars.