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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Royalty on April 17, 2019, 06:16:17 PM
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I have seen pictures of Arnold benching 500, Franco benching 500, Nubret benching 500, Viator benching 500. I bet that Oliva and Ferrigno were benching 400+. Haney and Bertil were big benchers.
I just see Mentzer doing dips and nautilus machine press. I thought that he was supposed to be a heavy duty guy?
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We’ve been over this.
Arnold, Serge, etc. never benched 500.
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Arnold benched 440lbs with his long arms with no arch. Franco is on film doing reps with around 415lbs so it might have at some point gotten 500lbs. Oliva was ranked at one point in the top ten in the world in Olympic lifting so maybe he had a big bench but mostly he did partial movement pumping benches with 315lbs in training. Ferrigno was a great deadlifter having won that in the strongest man competition against heavier powerlifters lifting the rear of a car loaded with plates but I don't know about his bench. Viator I don't believe he could do 400lbs. Serge Nubret is often mentioned at one point early in his career as being a big bench press guy but for bodybuilding was known for using light weights. The bench is a meaningless lift in athletic carry over anyway.
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I have seen pictures of Arnold benching 500, Franco benching 500, Nubret benching 500, Viator benching 500. I bet that Oliva and Ferrigno were benching 400+. Haney and Bertil were big benchers.
I just see Mentzer doing dips and nautilus machine press. I thought that he was supposed to be a heavy duty guy?
Nubret . . . fake weights.
Mentzer used the universal bench station.
J
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Nubret . . . fake weights.
Mentzer used the universal bench station.
J
I saw him use that machine as well as doing inclines on a Smith. He also used the universal bench press machine for shrugs.
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I have seen pictures of Arnold benching 500, Franco benching 500, Nubret benching 500, Viator benching 500. I bet that Oliva and Ferrigno were benching 400+. Haney and Bertil were big benchers.
I just see Mentzer doing dips and nautilus machine press. I thought that he was supposed to be a heavy duty guy?
Any evidence of Arnold and Nubret doing 500?
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Oliva was ranked at one point in the top ten in the world in Olympic lifting so maybe he had a big bench? /
The bench is a meaningless lift in athletic carry over anyway.
First time I've heard this about Oliva? But like you said, benching mostly hinders olympic lifts.
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Arnold did 440 in 1968, unsure of anything he did after that in legit PL contest.
1968 German powerlifting championships. A brief summary of the results was given in Kraftsport revue (Nr. 45, p. 38). These indicated that Arnold deadlifted 310 kg for a total of 725 kg. Full results were promised for issue nr. 46, which I don’t have. However, Thomas Klose has previously told us that the full results were later reprinted as, Squat 215 kg (473 lbs.), Bench 200 kg (440 lbs.) and Deadlift 310 kg. (682 lbs).
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how dare you suggest that arnold could bench 500 when he only benched 440 at age 21!
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First time I've heard this about Oliva? But like you said, benching mostly hinders olympic lifts.
Yes, Olympic lifters do not do benches at all in their training.
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how dare you suggest that arnold could bench 500 when he only benched 440 at age 21!
Very good deadlift as well. Bodybuilders were strong in those days (very few, if any machines).
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First time I've heard this about Oliva? But like you said, benching mostly hinders olympic lifts.
Oliva represented Cuba in Olympic lifting. He actually escaped while being in over seas representing them. I think at the time he was in the old 198lbs class. Now the weight classes has been revamped. He ran from their quarters overseas to claim asylum and it was granted. I don't recall where he was competing at the time but maybe it was Jamaica. If you want I could go through my stuff and find the facts about his escape from Cuba.
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Yes, Olympic lifters do not do benches at all in their training.
1:00.
Of course,in the 60's , Olympic lifting still had the clean and press - in addition to the clean and jerk and snatch.
So any benching was probably done as an assistant exercise for that lift.
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Arnold benched 440lbs with his long arms with no arch. Franco is on film doing reps with around 415lbs so it might have at some point gotten 500lbs. Oliva was ranked at one point in the top ten in the world in Olympic lifting so maybe he had a big bench but mostly he did partial movement pumping benches with 315lbs in training. Ferrigno was a great deadlifter having won that in the strongest man competition against heavier powerlifters lifting the rear of a car loaded with plates but I don't know about his bench. Viator I don't believe he could do 400lbs. Serge Nubret is often mentioned at one point early in his career as being a big bench press guy but for bodybuilding was known for using light weights. The bench is a meaningless lift in athletic carry over anyway.
so you're saying the mags were lying when they said viator could incline press 455.
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Arnold benched 440lbs with his long arms with no arch. Franco is on film doing reps with around 415lbs so it might have at some point gotten 500lbs. Oliva was ranked at one point in the top ten in the world in Olympic lifting so maybe he had a big bench but mostly he did partial movement pumping benches with 315lbs in training. Ferrigno was a great deadlifter having won that in the strongest man competition against heavier powerlifters lifting the rear of a car loaded with plates but I don't know about his bench. Viator I don't believe he could do 400lbs. Serge Nubret is often mentioned at one point early in his career as being a big bench press guy but for bodybuilding was known for using light weights. The bench is a meaningless lift in athletic carry over anyway.
"USELESS LIFT IN ATHLETIC CARRY OVER" ???? lol Is that why it is still part of the NFL combine?? You know who says a bench press is "useless"? Weak kunts who cant bench more than 225 lbs!!!
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"USELESS LIFT IN ATHLETIC CARRY OVER" ???? lol Is that why it is still part of the NFL combine?? You know who says a bench press is "useless"? Weak kunts who cant bench more than 225 lbs!!!
The NFL combine is interesting. They run the 40 in speedos and track shoes to determine speed even though they will always be in pads during a game. The vertical jump which has no function for football. The max bench with 225 when everyone knows that is more of an endurance exercise than strength exercise. Cone drills that have no function for football. Quarterbacks throwing into a garbage can or through a hoop from long distance with no pads on.
Either the NFL has kept those tests for decades simply to see which players prepare and which ones don't or they need to rethink their testing methods.
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Arnold benched 440lbs with his long arms with no arch. Franco is on film doing reps with around 415lbs so it might have at some point gotten 500lbs. Oliva was ranked at one point in the top ten in the world in Olympic lifting so maybe he had a big bench but mostly he did partial movement pumping benches with 315lbs in training. Ferrigno was a great deadlifter having won that in the strongest man competition against heavier powerlifters lifting the rear of a car loaded with plates but I don't know about his bench. Viator I don't believe he could do 400lbs. Serge Nubret is often mentioned at one point early in his career as being a big bench press guy but for bodybuilding was known for using light weights. The bench is a meaningless lift in athletic carry over anyway.
Why couldn't Viator do 400? He was known for his strength...and fwiw, even as a much older, fatter guy, he claimed he could "still do 500."
He was probably lying, but Art Jones reported Casey was doing 350*20 (!). Who was the bigger liar? I dunno.
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so you're saying the mags were lying when they said viator could incline press 455.
Yes, they’re lying.
I worked at MuscleMag and know what’s what. Kennedy exposed me to all the lies that run rampant in the industry.
He was friends with Arnold and spent a lot of time with that whole crew at the original Gold’s when they were all in their prime and said Arnold couldn’t press anywhere close to 500. At his strongest, he’d mostly use something in the 300s. He was good for a rep or two in the low 400s at his biggest.
Viator couldn’t incline 455, to his chest, unassisted, to save his life.
Sergio would have been pinned for eternity under 500.
Franco was good for sets of 8-10 with 315-365. In Pumping Iron he’s working hard to get a decent set with 315.
Mentzer was all about machines and extreme partials. Like his brother, who’d partial squat off the rails in a cage and then state he could do several hundred. Not a chance in hell.
Bertil could press a massively sloppy 500. Bounce and huge body English.
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Yes, they’re lying.
I worked at MuscleMag and know what’s what. Kennedy exposed to me all the lies that run rampant in the industry.
He was friends with Arnold and spent a lot of time with that whole crew at the original Gold’s when they were all in their prime and said Arnold couldn’t press anywhere close to 500. At his strongest, he’d mostly use something in the 300s. He was good for a rep or two in the low 400s at his biggest.
Viator couldn’t incline 455, to his chest, unassisted, to save his life.
Sergio would have been pinned for eternity under 500.
Franco was good for sets of 8-10 with 315-365. In Pumping Iron he’s working hard to get a decent set with 315.
Mentzer was all about machines and extreme partials. Like his brother, who’d partial squat off the rails in a cage and then state he could do several hundred. Not a chance in hell.
Bertil could press a massively sloppy 500. Bounce and huge body English.
This is shocking finding out bodybuilders lie about their lifts. ;)
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Yes, they’re lying.
I worked at MuscleMag and know what’s what. Kennedy exposed to me all the lies that run rampant in the industry.
He was friends with Arnold and spent a lot of time with that whole crew at the original Gold’s when they were all in their prime and said Arnold couldn’t press anywhere close to 500. At his strongest, he’d mostly use something in the 300s. He was good for a rep or two in the low 400s at his biggest.
According to the post above by Powerlift66: "1968 German powerlifting championships. A brief summary of the results was given in Kraftsport revue (Nr. 45, p. 38). These indicated that Arnold deadlifted 310 kg for a total of 725 kg. Full results were promised for issue nr. 46, which I don’t have. However, Thomas Klose has previously told us that the full results were later reprinted as, Squat 215 kg (473 lbs.), Bench 200 kg (440 lbs.) and Deadlift 310 kg. (682 lbs)"
So there is verifiable data that Arnold did press 440. I imagine some years later as he got into pure bodybuilding he didn't chase the singles anymore. Makes sense.
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lee priest benched 525 for 6 reps!
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lee priest benched 525 for 6 reps!
Muscular midgets can do that, brutal 4" ROM.
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Muscular midgets can do that, brutal 4" ROM.
yeah people will claim that he's lying but one has to remember that muscle midgets play by different rules
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Rob,
Who *were* legitimately strong bodybuilders? What sort of weights were they moving?
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If you want I could go through my stuff and find the facts about his escape from Cuba.
Don't bother.
Thats how it used to happen. Foundations were built in real sports and only after that one started to bodybuild.
Now there are teens who have never taken a running step without treadmill...
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Yes, they’re lying.
I worked at MuscleMag and know what’s what. Kennedy exposed me to all the lies that run rampant in the industry.
He was friends with Arnold and spent a lot of time with that whole crew at the original Gold’s when they were all in their prime and said Arnold couldn’t press anywhere close to 500. At his strongest, he’d mostly use something in the 300s. He was good for a rep or two in the low 400s at his biggest.
Viator couldn’t incline 455, to his chest, unassisted, to save his life.
Sergio would have been pinned for eternity under 500.
Franco was good for sets of 8-10 with 315-365. In Pumping Iron he’s working hard to get a decent set with 315.
Mentzer was all about machines and extreme partials. Like his brother, who’d partial squat off the rails in a cage and then state he could do several hundred. Not a chance in hell.
Bertil could press a massively sloppy 500. Bounce and huge body English.
kennedy would know.
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Oliva represented Cuba in Olympic lifting. He actually escaped while being in over seas representing them. I think at the time he was in the old 198lbs class. Now the weight classes has been revamped. He ran from their quarters overseas to claim asylum and it was granted. I don't recall where he was competing at the time but maybe it was Jamaica. If you want I could go through my stuff and find the facts about his escape from Cuba.
Oliva, took of with teams money bag ;)
+ he didn't escape from Cuba !.
;D
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lee priest benched 525 for 6 reps!
He isn’t stronger than Levrone in pressing and unlike lee, Levrone has all his lifts on video while lee does all Smith machine presses and struggles with “315” on smith, he’s all lies, just so happens he tells everyone he’s telling “the truth” ::)
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Sergio would have been pinned for eternity under 500.
;D ;D ;D ;D
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This is actually an interesting question on Mentzer. I, too, can't recall seeing a photo of him barbell benching or for that matter Deadlifting. I've seen him squat out of a rack, loads of heavy free weight arm training, but no benching. Closest to it is maybe this photo of a heavy set of flies -
(https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/wpimages/images/images1/1/0513/12/1_921760e90948336a40a656d0fed73d27.jpg).
I'm sure he was schooled on freeweights, etc.... because he grew up and did his early training around PA and MD which is prime York Barbell country, but perhaps no pictures were taken/survive.
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M.M. was promoting 'Heavy Duty' training ..................
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I feel my chest is lacking due to the fact ive avoided heavy flat and heavy incline barbell bench press as a youth...
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He isn’t stronger than Levrone in pressing and unlike lee, Levrone has all his lifts on video while lee does all Smith machine presses and struggles with “315” on smith, he’s all lies, just so happens he tells everyone he’s telling “the truth” ::)
Priest was strong (I’ve lifted with him), but his pressing claim is utter horseshit.
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Rob,
Who *were* legitimately strong bodybuilders? What sort of weights were they moving?
Firstly, anyone benching over four is hugely strong, period.
People seem to ignore Arnold’s relatively small body weight. Two hundred and forty-five-odd pounds isn’t big under 500 pounds. Those who can do so at such a weight are almost always specialists and/or are using support gear. Or they’re midgets.
And back then, although the gear they were on was great stuff, they weren’t doing anywhere close to the amounts, and variety, done in the modern age (‘90s and on).
Arnold had huge biceps and pecs, but these do little to accomplish a huge bench press. Triceps and shoulders (and back) are where it’s at, and The Oak had lackluster triceps and non-powerful (nor dense) shoulders.
I’m sure, too, the alleged 440 back in Europe would not have included a pause or much of an adherence to strict judging criteria.
All the big bodybuilders of yesteryear were very strong. But the 500-plus fellas were almost exclusively pure strength athletes. Even the “massive” (in his day he was considered a new frontier) Haney was good for around 2-6 reps with 405, “only”. Peter and David Paul doing five plates was considered freakish in the bodybuilding realm.
Levrone is (when gassing) a very gifted presser. Dorian hitting very controlled and strict inclines with 405 for several reps is amazingly impressive.
With a barbell, Coleman could press five plates, but only for a sloppy few, at best. When he was around 300-or-more pounds.
Michael Francois was suited well to monstrous strength, but I’m not sure what he could bench, if “pressed” (haha).
Labrada told me he once did 365 for one repetition.
The specialists and YouTube spectacles would have many believe a 500 bench is commonplace. It isn’t.
Going over 600 is freakish.
Seven? There are four men who’ve (documented) done this. Three with a legit pause. These guys are WELL over 300 pounds and taking life-threatening amounts of extremely powerful chemicals/hormones.
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Firstly, anyone benching over four is hugely strong, period.
People seem to ignore Arnold’s relatively small body weight. Two hundred and forty-five-odd pounds isn’t big under 500 pounds. Those who can do so at such a weight are almost always specialists and/or are using support gear. Or they’re midgets.
And back then, although the gear they were on was great stuff, they weren’t doing anywhere close to the amounts, and variety, done in the modern age (‘90s and on).
Arnold had huge biceps and pecs, but these do little to accomplish a huge bench press. Triceps and shoulders (and back) are where it’s at, and The Oak had lackluster triceps and non-powerful (nor dense) shoulders.
I’m sure, too, the alleged 440 back in Europe would not have included a pause or much of an adherence to strict judging criteria.
All the big bodybuilders of yesteryear were very strong. But the 500-plus fellas were almost exclusively pure strength athletes. Even the “massive” (in his day he was considered a new frontier) Haney was good for around 2-6 reps with 405, “only”. Peter and David Paul doing five plates was considered freakish in the bodybuilding realm.
Levrone is (when gassing) a very gifted presser. Dorian hitting very controlled and strict inclines with 405 for several reps is amazingly impressive.
With a barbell, Coleman could press five plates, but only for a sloppy few, at best. When he was around 300-or-more pounds.
Michael Francois was suited well to monstrous strength, but I’m not sure what he could bench, if “pressed” (haha).
Labrada told me he once did 365 for one repetition.
The specialists and YouTube spectacles would have many believe a 500 bench is commonplace. It isn’t.
Going over 600 is freakish.
Seven? There are four men who’ve (documented) done this. Three with a legit pause. These guys are WELL over 300 pounds and taking life-threatening amounts of extremely powerful chemicals/hormones.
I watched Kal Szkalak do 5 or 6 reps with 405 and a wide grip in (ancient memory alert!) the mid 70s at Gold's.
I could not bench press for shit just making 350 with a touch and go was my best at around 250 lbs bodyweight. Inclines? No way.
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There’s a guy who was known to be very strong, Kal, yes.
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Yes, they’re lying.
I worked at MuscleMag and know what’s what. Kennedy exposed me to all the lies that run rampant in the industry.
He was friends with Arnold and spent a lot of time with that whole crew at the original Gold’s when they were all in their prime and said Arnold couldn’t press anywhere close to 500. At his strongest, he’d mostly use something in the 300s. He was good for a rep or two in the low 400s at his biggest.
Viator couldn’t incline 455, to his chest, unassisted, to save his life.
Sergio would have been pinned for eternity under 500.
Franco was good for sets of 8-10 with 315-365. In Pumping Iron he’s working hard to get a decent set with 315.
Mentzer was all about machines and extreme partials. Like his brother, who’d partial squat off the rails in a cage and then state he could do several hundred. Not a chance in hell.
Bertil could press a massively sloppy 500. Bounce and huge body English.
I'm sure Robert Kennedy knew Ric Drasin. Ric was well known to be a big bench presser during the Gold's Gym early to mid 70's era. Ric reports he benched around 440 lbs in his prime working out as Arnold's long time training partner during this period. I don't think Ric was using massive dosages either and probably weighed around 220 lbs max so that's pretty impressive if you ask me.
Here in this video he talks about it around the 3:45 min mark.
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speaking of utter bullshit
In this video (~ 4:30) Danny Padilla claims he could bench 450 and even more nutty that he could incline 400
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Legit 400+ bench pressing bodybuilders from the 1990's. Guys that I actually watched train in Golds Venice and bench over 400 pounds.
Aaron Baker
Chris Cormier
Rico McClinton
Craig Titus
Tom Prince
Billy Smith
Jim Quinn
Michael Francois
Mike O'Hearn
More coming...
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People seem to ignore Arnold’s relatively small body weight.
and yet he pressed 440 at 21.
Arnold had huge biceps and pecs, but these do little to accomplish a huge bench press. Triceps and shoulders (and back) are where it’s at, and The Oak had lackluster triceps and non-powerful (nor dense) shoulders.
and yet he pressed 440 at 21.
I’m sure, too, the alleged 440 back in Europe would not have included a pause
oh, so now it's not asbout him not being built for the job, too small etc now it's about that he didnt PAUSE! ::)
arnold may not have benched 500, but anyone who bench 440 in a meet at 21 sure have the pontetial to put up big numbers, as they can do so into their 40's.
i believe that it's possible to add 60 pounds to your bench in 20 years.
with or without pause.
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Legit 400+ bench pressing bodybuilders from the 1990's. Guys that I actually watched train in Golds Venice and bench over 400 pounds.
Aaron Baker
Chris Cormier
Rico McClinton
Craig Titus
Tom Prince
Billy Smith
Jim Quinn
Michael Francois
Mike O'Hearn
More coming...
Not surprised by any of them except Aaron Baker. Never would have expected him to be that strong.
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speaking of utter bullshit
In this video (~ 4:30) Danny Padilla claims he could bench 450 and even more nutty that he could incline 400
He had a short stroke.
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Franco getting 5 clean reps with 405lbs in the bench.
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Legit 400+ bench pressing bodybuilders from the 1990's. Guys that I actually watched train in Golds Venice and bench over 400 pounds.
Aaron Baker
Chris Cormier
Rico McClinton
Craig Titus
Tom Prince
Billy Smith
Jim Quinn
Michael Francois
Mike O'Hearn
More coming...
What about Mike Quinn, Mike Matarazzo, Paul Demayo, Paul Dillet, Flex Wheeler, Melvin Anthony or Jay Cutler?
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so we have franco on video doing 5 reps at 405.
then we have the getbig expert fortress "Franco was good for sets of 8-10 with 315-365. In Pumping Iron he’s working hard to get a decent set with 315."
what gives ???
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What about Mike Quinn, Mike Matarazzo, Paul Demayo, Paul Dillet, Flex Wheeler, Melvin Anthony or Jay Cutler?
i think we can rule out paul dillet
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so we have franco on video doing 5 reps at 405.
then we have the getbig expert fortress "Franco was good for sets of 8-10 with 315-365. In Pumping Iron he’s working hard to get a decent set with 315."
what gives ???
No doubt Franco is very strong but he was struggling hard at pressing 315 in pumping iron, so what gives?
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No doubt Franco is very strong but he was struggling hard at pressing 315 in pumping iron, so what gives?
maybe he forget his pwo that day
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Several pics of Franco benching 400+ eveb 450ish
He competed in strongman so he was a strong dude.
About Mentzer there's not any footage of him benching. Probably prefered machines.
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Legit 400+ bench pressing bodybuilders from the 1990's. Guys that I actually watched train in Golds Venice and bench over 400 pounds.
Aaron Baker
Chris Cormier
Rico McClinton
Craig Titus
Tom Prince
Billy Smith
Jim Quinn
Michael Francois
Mike O'Hearn
More coming...
All legit, yep. And Aaron was very strong.
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Franco getting 5 clean reps with 405lbs in the bench.
Exactly. Franco was good for a mid 400s press with a pause.
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so we have franco on video doing 5 reps at 405.
then we have the getbig expert fortress "Franco was good for sets of 8-10 with 315-365. In Pumping Iron he’s working hard to get a decent set with 315."
what gives ???
Yes, as said, SETS of 8-10 with 315-365.
The five tough reps with 405 bears this out.
Thanks for playing.
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Yes, as said, SETS of 8-10 with 315-365.
The five tough reps with 405 bears this out.
Thanks for playing.
so then we agree that
1. franco and arnold was very strong.
2. arnold was especially strong considering that he a) was only 21 and b) wasnt build for the movement
3. if they would do benching rather than bodybuilding, they would without any doubt have been able to press even more.
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so then we agree that
1. franco and arnold was very strong.
2. arnold was especially strong considering that he a) was only 21 and b) wasnt build for the movement
3. if they would do benching rather than bodybuilding, they would without any doubt have been able to press even more.
Of course they were strong. I’ve stated this. Anyone pressing four or more is VERY strong.
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not sure what maxing out this machine translates to. Mike usually stayed in the 6-10 rep range if I remember right.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1251/9383/files/Casey_Viator_-_Mike_Mentzer_-_Ray_Mentzer.jpg?v=1491593273)
regardless I'm sure he was a decent presser with this tricep mass
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1251/9383/files/Mike_Mentzer_Massive_Triceps.jpg?v=1491589439)
Strong any which way.
legit 225lbs what seems to be strict curls
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1251/9383/files/Mike_Mentzer_Forced_Reps_b39e7dfe-627a-44bf-b4d7-4058ed0d263c.jpg?v=1491590711)
squats:
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/474x/ec/78/41/ec7841abb2f75b0ff29910d2fddb4663.jpg)
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if mike mentzer wouldve known we would talk about him on getbig msg board decades later, im sure he would've put in a few bench pressing sessions just to show how strong he was
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not sure what maxing out this machine translates to. Mike usually stayed in the 6-10 rep range if I remember right.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1251/9383/files/Casey_Viator_-_Mike_Mentzer_-_Ray_Mentzer.jpg?v=1491593273)
regardless I'm sure he was a decent presser with this tricep mass
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1251/9383/files/Mike_Mentzer_Massive_Triceps.jpg?v=1491589439)
Strong any which way.
legit 225lbs what seems to be strict curls
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1251/9383/files/Mike_Mentzer_Forced_Reps_b39e7dfe-627a-44bf-b4d7-4058ed0d263c.jpg?v=1491590711)
squats:
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/474x/ec/78/41/ec7841abb2f75b0ff29910d2fddb4663.jpg)
Can mike really do 30 reps of 475 on squats?? :D
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Can mike really do 30 reps of 475 on squats?? :D
probably not full dept Platz type squats
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probably not full dept Platz type squats
Not a chance in all of the nine realms.
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Not a chance in all of the nine realms.
agree like I said those nr are probably at half squats
Because Platz did 525 for 23 and I have never seen anyone eclipse that actually. 475 for 30 would be better.
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probably not full dept Platz type squats
Not a chance in all of the nine realms.
I think that we are now getting to the real meat and potatoes of the issue, Mentzer was a fake (or dramatically exaggerated the facts)
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I think that we are now getting to the real meat and potatoes of the issue, Mentzer was a fake (or dramatically exaggerated the facts)
Mentzer had a great build, IMO. Nothing fake about that.
How he achieved it is half fact and half anybody’s guess since he didn’t publish everything he did. Were there exaggerations of strength in the magazines? of course, for every single guy featured in the mags.
But unlike Arnold in his hey day, Mentzer was open about steroid use, as was Platz and a few others. No one can attain the muscle mass of professional body builders, no matter how they train, without these drugs. So the real fakes are those people who deny they take or took them.
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Mentzer had a great build, IMO. Nothing fake about that.
How he achieved it is half fact and half anybody’s guess since he didn’t publish everything he did. Were there exaggerations of strength in the magazines? of course, for every single guy featured in the mags.
But unlike Arnold in his hey day, Mentzer was open about steroid use, as was Platz and a few others. No one can attain the muscle mass of professional body builders, no matter how they train, without these drugs. So the real fakes are those people who deny they take or took them.
ive read this on getbig (gulp) mentzer would do excessive deca doses? 2000-3000mg per week?
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Didn't he publish his own bb magz , 3-4 issues only ..................
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agree like I said those nr are probably at half squats
Because Platz did 525 for 23 and I have never seen anyone eclipse that actually. 475 for 30 would be better.
Our resident getbigger “the scott” said he could squat 500+ for 20 reps just drinking a gallon of milk
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Our resident getbigger “the scott” said he could squat 500+ for 20 reps just drinking a gallon of milk
My last day at a big gym that had enough weights to go around my squat routine was this:
Warm up with 135 and then 225. First set, 20 reps with 515. Second set, 20 reps with 535. Third set, 5 reps with 585 (just to feel something "heavy") and my final set was back down to 515 for 20 reps. If I had remained at that gym my next leg day would have started out using 520 then 540, 590 and 520. As I said before, I've seen Platz squat and he goes ass to grass while I go parallel or slightly below that. I was 6' 1" and Platz was not 6' 1". ;D His leg development was superior to mine but I could hold my own in leg work and have other personal bests from leg days gone by.
Outside of Platz I never met someone capable of squatting like I could. I am too old now and have a physical handicap (not related to exercise, LOL!) but getting to that level took me somewhere between 8 and 10 years of consistent squatting, leg presses (the real leg press, i.e., inverted on your back), leg extensions and leg curls.
If people don't believe me, that's fine with me, LOL!
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My last day at a big gym that had enough weights to go around my squat routine was this:
Warm up with 135 and then 225. First set, 20 reps with 515. Second set, 20 reps with 535. Third set, 5 reps with 585 (just to feel something "heavy") and my final set was back down to 515 for 20 reps. If I had remained at that gym my next leg day would have started out using 520 then 540, 590 and 520. As I said before, I've seen Platz squat and he goes ass to grass while I go parallel or slightly below that. I was 6' 1" and Platz was not 6' 1". ;D His leg development was superior to mine but I could hold my own in leg work and have other personal bests from leg days gone by.
Outside of Platz I never met someone capable of squatting like I could. I am too old now and have a physical handicap (not related to exercise, LOL!) but getting to that level took me somewhere between 8 and 10 years of consistent squatting, leg presses (the real leg press, i.e., inverted on your back), leg extensions and leg curls.
If people don't believe me, that's fine with me, LOL!
Very impressive kind sir
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Very impressive kind sir
Well thank you my friend, but to be honest no one outside powerlifters (and I had several as good friends) ever cared about anything other than "howmuchyabench". ;D My friends stories of J.C. Hise and the 20 rep breathing squat really inspired me.
And I was never a strong bench presser. Nor deadlifter. I competed in a few bodybuilding shows but was not nearly good enough. But it was fun for me and my family and friends showed up to cheer me on if not to victory, then to humiliation! ;D ;D
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Not a chance in all of the nine realms.
;D
Every time I read this I try to think of ways to use it in the real world. Thanks, brother! ;D
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ive read this on getbig (gulp) mentzer would do excessive deca doses? 2000-3000mg per week?
Wouldn't surprise me! He was friends with Dr. John Ziegler who introduced the first synthetic steroids to US weightlifters. Mentzer was very open about it.
Ziegler's experience with bodybuilders and steroids? "He gave up experimentation with athletes when he learned that some who had taken 20 times the recommended dose of Dianabol had developed a liver condition. He was quoted in Science in 1972 saying "I lost interest in fooling with IQ's of that caliber. Now it's about as widespread among these idiots as marijuana."
Wonder if he was thinking of Mentzer specifically, haha.
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Well thank you my friend
Surely that 585lbs didn't feel that heavy after 20x 515 and 535?
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Bill Kazmaier claimed that Tom Platz used fake plates in the 525 for 23.
At 3:26 in the above video:https://youtu.be/jJl8MWSGulE?t=204
(https://youtu.be/jJl8MWSGulE?t=204)
I saw that and many people that knows Platz and worked out with him throuout the years says that is complete BS and Platz weights where always legit.
And if you watched any interviews with Kaz lately you will notice hes abit out there to say the least...
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I saw that and many people that knows Platz and worked out with him throuout the years says that is complete BS and Platz weights where always legit.
And if you watched any interviews with Kaz lately you will notice hes abit out there to say the least...
Kaz is possibly my favourite strength athlete, but recently, after casting doubt regarding Tom’s squat-off poundage, he spoke some horseshit of his own. He said back in the day he’d squat sets of .... 15 (?) ... with 300 kilograms ... or some such utter nonsense.
I’ve hung with Kaz a few times and like him very much. However, these days he indeed is “out there”, and I suspect his recollections of his feats have become confused with his nocturnal superman dreams.
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What about Mike Quinn, Mike Matarazzo, Paul Demayo, Paul Dillet, Flex Wheeler, Melvin Anthony or Jay Cutler?
Never really saw him train heavy.
No. Don't recall Mike M. being a BP guy.
Paul was very strong but I never saw him bench heavy.
Dillet, no sir.
Flex? Weird, heavy inclines but very little flat BP.
Melvin. No sir.
Jay? I just never saw it. He was very strong, I just didn't watch/see him BP ever.
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the take away message here is that heavy benching isnt very beneficial for bodybuilding and it never was.
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Well thank you my friend, but to be honest no one outside powerlifters (and I had several as good friends) ever cared about anything other than "howmuchyabench". ;D My friends stories of J.C. Hise and the 20 rep breathing squat really inspired me.
And I was never a strong bench presser. Nor deadlifter. I competed in a few bodybuilding shows but was not nearly good enough. But it was fun for me and my family and friends showed up to cheer me on if not to victory, then to humiliation! ;D ;D
You are too humble, my good man. A 350 bench, paused or no, is pretty damn strong, even if you were 250 or so when you did it.
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Yes, they’re lying.
I worked at MuscleMag and know what’s what. Kennedy exposed me to all the lies that run rampant in the industry.
He was friends with Arnold and spent a lot of time with that whole crew at the original Gold’s when they were all in their prime and said Arnold couldn’t press anywhere close to 500. At his strongest, he’d mostly use something in the 300s. He was good for a rep or two in the low 400s at his biggest.
Viator couldn’t incline 455, to his chest, unassisted, to save his life.
Sergio would have been pinned for eternity under 500.
Franco was good for sets of 8-10 with 315-365. In Pumping Iron he’s working hard to get a decent set with 315.
Mentzer was all about machines and extreme partials. Like his brother, who’d partial squat off the rails in a cage and then state he could do several hundred. Not a chance in hell.
Bertil could press a massively sloppy 500. Bounce and huge body English.
Resting 315 on his chest at the end of his set then pressing it up easily is not working hard to get a decent set.
You be full of shyte
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lee priest benched 525 for 6 reps!
Not a chance in hell Lee benched anywhere near that.
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so we have franco on video doing 5 reps at 405.
then we have the getbig expert fortress "Franco was good for sets of 8-10 with 315-365. In Pumping Iron he’s working hard to get a decent set with 315."
what gives ???
Is Fortress is really biased against that specific group of guys and seriously downplaying their strength ???
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ive read this on getbig (gulp) mentzer would do excessive deca doses? 2000-3000mg per week?
If true then it's ironic that his strident views that one only needs a few sets to stimulate growth (with the excess being counter productive) and also insisting that you only needed a few extra grams of protein of the bare minimum of the RDA didn't extend to his drug usage
Seems like to be consistent it would be a half a tab of dbol every 7-10 days
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If true then it's ironic that his strident views that one only needs a few sets to stimulate growth (with the excess being counter productive) and also insisting that you only needed a few extra grams of protein of the bare minimum of the RDA didn't extend to his drug usage
Seems like to be consistent it would be a half a tab of dbol every 7-10 days
There exists for all medications what is known as an "effective dose". That Mentzer (and others) far exceeded this I have no doubts. It may be listed in a PDR for each medication but I really don't know. I think there are a few MDs on here that could better explain this.
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What about Mike Quinn, Mike Matarazzo, Paul Demayo, Paul Dillet, Flex Wheeler, Melvin Anthony or Jay Cutler?
Paul Dillet trained like a girl.......a very weak girl.
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I love when bbers do half reps with heavy weights and make excuses is to why they don’t do full reps is cause “time under tension” bs ;D
The reality is they are using weights too heavy they are just trying to get it up any way possible haha
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Is Fortress is really biased against that specific group of guys and seriously downplaying their strength ???
Not a chance. They were strong guys all the way. I just don’t wish to see exaggerations.
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I love Gunter but for his size and the amount of drugs on, he was one of the weakest pros I’ve ever seen
Still one of the nicest dudes
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whatabout ruhl? wasnt he pretty strong?
maybe he was more a machine guy
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whatabout ruhl? wasnt he pretty strong?
maybe he was more a machine guy
Ruhl was strong on Bench Press. He used an extremely wide grip. Hands almost out to the sleeves on the bar.
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Ruhl Wide grip Bench
Go to 1:46
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ruhl very likeable guy, saw his instagram and he's still packing some size
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Ruhl Wide grip Bench
Go to 1:46
love that song - the opening is amazing
Ruhl seemed like never fucking cared about anyone's opinion and just did what him. he used to smoke in alot of his vids back in the day - true Euro haha
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Not a chance. They were strong guys all the way. I just don’t wish to see exaggerations.
I know you know your stuff, but you are completely full of shit bro.
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Mentzer started training with weights at age 12 with some local powerlifters. He claimed to be benching 360 and squatting 500 by the age of 15.
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Ruhl Wide grip Bench
Go to 1:46
How much is that?
20 kg + 4 x15 kg (yellow plates) + 4 x 20 kg(blue plates)
= 160kg or 352 lb ?
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How much is that?
20 kg + 4 x15 kg (yellow plates) + 4 x 20 kg(blue plates)
= 160kg or 352 lb ?
At 1.46 onwards
Count again !!
Bar = 20kg
4x 20kg = 80kg - blue discs
6x 15kg = 90kg - yellow discs
2x 5kg = 10kg
That’s 200kg - 440lb Total.
HTH
;D
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At 1.46 onwards
Count again !!
Bar = 20kg
4x 20kg = 80kg - blue discs
6x 15kg = 90kg - yellow discs
2x 5kg = 10kg
That’s 200kg - 440lb Total.
HTH
;D
Oh, ffs. Yes , of course.
(actually watched the relevant portion of the video ,this time)
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Mentzer started training with weights at age 12 with some local powerlifters. He claimed to be benching 360 and squatting 500 by the age of 15.
And yet there are no pictures of him doing Bench Press. Not one. I find that odd.
Think of all the old Flex magazines, Ironman Magazine, Or the various Robert Kennedy publications, or the internet
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whatabout mentzers brother? maybe he did some benching
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Danny Padilla trained some with Mentzers maybe he could say.
But really who cares?
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4d/4d/14/4d4d14a5ed46c4eab9a3412cce277887.jpg)
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Based on his writings, Mike favored inclines and dips over flat bench. He was especially big on dips, and he spoke at length to me about how he and Ray would really psyche themselves up to dip very heavy -- up to hanging 180 from their waists for reps. (When he said "psyche themselves up," I imagine that entailed popping Speed.)
That said, in an old interview, he was asked about some of his best lifts. He listed flat benching either 425, 440 or 445 for a 1 RM; I can't remember the exact number. He also said he singled 300 in a behind-neck press, and 10 good reps with 225 on the same.
I believe that, but I don't believe the 475*30 squat claim for a minute. Then again, that came from a magazine caption; I don't think Mike ever said anything about his best squat...Ray was the one claiming a double with 900 :/
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Based on his writings, Mike favored inclines and dips over flat bench. He was especially big on dips, and he spoke at length to me about how he and Ray would really psyche themselves up to dip very heavy -- up to hanging 180 from their waists for reps. (When he said "psyche themselves up," I imagine that entailed popping Speed.)
That said, in an old interview, he was asked about some of his best lifts. He listed flat benching either 425, 440 or 445 for a 1 RM; I can't remember the exact number. He also said he singled 300 in a behind-neck press, and 10 good reps with 225 on the same.
I believe that, but I don't believe the 475*30 squat claim for a minute. Then again, that came from a magazine caption; I don't think Mike ever said anything about his best squat...Ray was the one claiming a double with 900 :/
I wouldn't be surprised if Mentzer did 475x30. He was a strong guy and from this pic his legs were at least as big as Tom Platz's were:
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I wouldn't be surprised if Mentzer did 475x30. He was a strong guy and from this pic his legs were at least as big as Tom Platz's were:
MM had great legs. Best in this lineup for sure
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=107748.0;attach=128248;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=107748.0;attach=128246;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=107748.0;attach=128227;image)
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I wouldn't be surprised if Mentzer did 475x30. He was a strong guy and from this pic his legs were at least as big as Tom Platz's were:
I’m sure he can do 650 for 30
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I’m sure he can do 650 for 30
Yes.
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MM had great legs. Best in this lineup for sure
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=107748.0;attach=128248;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=107748.0;attach=128246;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=107748.0;attach=128227;image)
Better than Roger Walker? If anyone got screwed in that contest it was Walker not Mentzer.
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Mentzer was built like a Tank - he almost looked like a dwarf due to his compressed structure.
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Spoke to D-Mass today (Mastorakis) who was very good friends with Mike. He said what Titus Pullo said above about the incline benching, Mike wasnt satisfied with his upper pec's.
(So he favored inclines).
Never really saw him flat-bench, so he was unsure of his max.
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Mentzer was built like a Tank - he almost looked like a dwarf due to his compressed structure.
The proportions of a toddler.
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Based on his writings, Mike favored inclines and dips over flat bench. He was especially big on dips, and he spoke at length to me about how he and Ray would really psyche themselves up to dip very heavy -- up to hanging 180 from their waists for reps. (When he said "psyche themselves up," I imagine that entailed popping Speed.)
That said, in an old interview, he was asked about some of his best lifts. He listed flat benching either 425, 440 or 445 for a 1 RM; I can't remember the exact number. He also said he singled 300 in a behind-neck press, and 10 good reps with 225 on the same.
I believe that, but I don't believe the 475*30 squat claim for a minute. Then again, that came from a magazine caption; I don't think Mike ever said anything about his best squat...Ray was the one claiming a double with 900 :/
I wonder if any of it is true? ABC use to have a program called the super stars where athletes competed in a bunch of different events like the half mile, 100 yard dash, rowing a boat; baseball hitting from a machine; bowling, obstacle course, weight lifting and other events. The weight lifting was a push press from squat stands. I believe Ferrigno got 300lbs with bad form. I think Mentzer failed with 300lbs. There is no way Mentzer was capable of a 300lbs PBN. Maybe in a smith machine with the bar positioned 8"plus higher than his traps. Ferrigno did well in the competition winning his preliminary heat against top shelf athletes but had some bad breaks in the final. Mentzer didn't do well at all. I remember the 100 yard dash and this was in his prime he looked like he just wasn't an athlete as every one blew by him. Ferrigno overall did amazing in the competition against football players, baseball, and other known athletes. I could be wrong on the time buy if my memory serves me he ran a 2:21 half mile. Fantastic for a man of his size.
The best moment in the show was boxer Joe Frazier competing in the swim contest. He jumped in and had to be rescued. He admitted he didn't know how to swim but figured he could learn during the competition. He nearly drowned.
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I wonder if true on any of it is true? ABC use to have a program called the super stars where athletes competed in a bunch of different events like the half mile, 100 yard dash, rowing a boat; baseball hitting from a machine; bowling, obstacle course, weight lifting and other events. The weight lifting was a push press from squat stands. I believe Ferrigno got 300lbs with bad form. I think Mentzer failed with 300lbs. There is no way Mentzer was capable of a 300lbs PBN. Maybe in a smith machine with the bar positioned 8"plus higher than his traps. Ferrigno did well in the competition winning his preliminary heat against top shelf athletes but had some bad breaks in the final. Mentzer didn't do well at all. I remember the 100 yard dash and this was in his prime he looked like he just wasn't an athlete as every one blew by him. Ferrigno overall did amazing in the competition against football players, baseball, and other known athletes. I could be wrong on the time buy if my memory serves me he ran a 2:21 half mile. Fantastic for a man of his size.
The best moment in the show was boxer Joe Frazier competing in the swim contest. He jumped in and had to be rescued. He admitted he didn't know how to swim but figured he could learn during the competition. He nearly drowned.
Frazier figured he'd learn on the job. ;D Boxers aren't known for being smart. Mentzer is probably THE most overrated bodybuilder in history.
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Frazier figured he'd learn on the job. ;D Boxers aren't known for being smart. Mentzer is probably THE most overrated bodybuilder in history.
He lost the Universe twice. Once to Robby and the other was Kalman. Yet his fans say he should have beaten both. Nope, they were both better. Not even close. Then he loses to Zane in the Olympia. Zane was better yet his fans say he was again ripped off. Now hear comes the 1980 Olympia. He comes in 5th and they say he should have won. Nope, he deserved 5th. I think fans of high intensity have a warped perception when it comes to their heroes.
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He lost the Universe twice. Once to Robby and the other was Kalman. Yet his fans say he should have beaten both. Nope, they were both better. Not even close. Then he loses to Zane in the Olympia. Zane was better yet his fans say he was again ripped off. Now hear comes the 1980 Olympia. He comes in 5th and they say he should have won. Nope, he deserved 5th. I think fans of high intensity have a warped perception when it comes to their heroes.
Agreed. It seems most who train HIT almost worship the guy and can't look at the pics of the 80 Olympia and see he was not even close to being the best at that contest. Same with the others you mentioned.
Even his training system was shit. He trained volume for years and then switched to Jones's HIT before turning pro. He attributed all of his success to the new program even though there were probably other factors he never factored in like upping the dose. Then he was telling guys to do just one work set per bodypart even though he never trained like that. Later on in life he had guys training once every 3 weeks. ::)
He truly was "all drugs" if there ever was a bodybuilder as such. He used meth to lose bodyfat while eating 800 calories a day. Of course if he wasn't juiced to the gills he would have lost all of his muscle doing that. I wonder what he would have looked like if he didn't train at all. Probably not much worse.
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MM and Arthur Jones shook the training world in the 70’s- and we are still talking about them today. I liked MM’s build and his attitude. Arnold was amazing but I preferred some science involved in explaining hypertrophy. Arnold’s training was pretty rote.
Is HIT shit? I don’t think so. It is extremely effective in a short amount of time. But unless you are a drug assisted lifter, I think it was far too intense both in frequency and degree of failure in the original writings. Once a week close to positive failure does a lot in my experience.
Mike’s chest was unique- somewhere between Franco and Arnold. I actually think it is more of an athletic level of development- Arnold’s was almost too much.
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MM and Arthur Jones shook the training world in the 70’s- and we are still talking about them today. I liked MM’s build and his attitude. Arnold was amazing but I preferred some science involved in explaining hypertrophy. Arnold’s training was pretty rote.
Is HIT shit? I don’t think so. It is extremely effective in a short amount of time. But unless you are a drug assisted lifter, I think it was far too intense both in frequency and degree of failure in the original writings. Once a week close to positive failure does a lot in my experience.
Mike’s chest was unique- somewhere between Franco and Arnold. I actually think it is more of an athletic level of development- Arnold’s was almost too much.
I agree with you on the once a week close to failure thing although they went far beyond that to doing forced reps and extended sets to complete failure.
Arthur Jones was a genius at marketing more than a genius of science.
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Mentzer had the legit tough guy look, that's why getbiggers diss him ::)
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Mentzer had the legit tough guy look, that's why getbiggers diss him ::)
Because he was insane, a crybaby and overrated.
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I prefer Mentzer's earlier training style to the one he advocated toward the end of his life. Five or six sets per body part seems to work best for me, although there are times I will do the warmup set followed by the one working set of madness.
I think he destroyed his mind with Meth or whatever form of speed he was on.
I remember a book called, "The Complete Book of Running". Later they came out with a newer one. It was the same with Mentzer and his books. Books are written to be sold.