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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: Oldschool Flip on April 18, 2006, 04:39:28 AM
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We already know that Muslims go to the extreme with suicide bombings for their beliefs and that they are considered martyrs for it, but would you recant your belief in Jesus and God if you were going to be put to death for it? I've always wanted to ask that question of Christians.
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For my religion? No.
For the glory of God? Yes.
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If someone had a bullet to my head and was asking me to denouce my faith in God (which I think JA's trying to do verbally), I will GLADLY take that bullet. NO QUESTIONS ASKED!
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Would you fly a plane into a building "For the glory of God"?
If God told you to fly a plane into a building and you KNEW it was god..Would you do it?
Yes or No?
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Would you fly a plane into a building "For the glory of God"?
If God told you to fly a plane into a building and you KNEW it was god..Would you do it?
Yes or No?
How exactly would killing thousands of innocent people honor God?
Now if God told me to (and I KNEW it was God) and he said, "go forth and fly this plane into that building - Johnny Apollo is in it" then yes. Yes I would. ;)
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How exactly would killing thousands of innocent people honor God?
Now if God told me to (and I KNEW it was God) and he said, "go forth and fly this plane into that building - Johnny Apollo is in it" then yes. Yes I would. ;)
Ever read the Old Testament? God commanded his armies to destroy cities and kill women and children. So it would not be a stretch for God to get people to fly planes into buildings right?
Answer the question.
If God told you to fly a plane into a building. Would you fly the plane into the building if you KNEW it was God telling you to do it?
Yes or No?
(I'm not in it)
Notice how christians can't answer a simple "yes" or "no" question.
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Yes.......so what?
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Ah, Atleast he admits he'd comit another 9/11 for his "True God".
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Ever read the Old Testament? God commanded his armies to destroy cities and kill women and children. So it would not be a stretch for God to get people to fly planes into buildings right?
Answer the question.
If God told you to fly a plane into a building. Would you fly the plane into the building if you KNEW it was God telling you to do it?
Yes or No?
(I'm not in it)
Notice how christians can't answer a simple "yes" or "no" question.
If it was God's will I would.
How's that for your "YES" answer?
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The reason he destroyed wicked nations was to fullfill the promise he made to his Holy people. I am in no place to judge Gods judgement or actions.
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If God commanded you to kill your children would you do it?
Let's forget about "why" he might do this. Just answer the question.
If you KNEW it was God and he said "Kill your children, For I have a plan for them."
Would you do it?
Yes or No?
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For my religion? No.
For the glory of God? Yes.
First let us assume the existence of an omnipotent, omnicient almighty God, creator and sustainer of the universe. (Funny how the Christian and muslim fanatics fail to mention the word sustainer.)
Do you think your death will add to his glory? It is like a firefly wanting to get consumed in the Sun to add it its glory. Now that is some serious ego right there. I have an overblown ego but you take the cake.
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I would hope to be as obedient as Abraham.....
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First let us assume the existence of an omnipotent, omnicient almighty God, creator and sustainer of the universe. (Funny how the Christian and muslim fanatics fail to mention the word sustainer.)
Do you think your death will add to his glory? It is like a firefly wanting to get consumed in the Sun to add it its glory. Now that is some serious ego right there. I have an overblown ego but you take the cake.
What is it about serving another that give me a big ego?
Serving is about putting the needs of someone else before the needs of my own.
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If God commanded you to kill your children would you do it?
Let's forget about "why" he might do this. Just answer the question.
If you KNEW it was God and he said "Kill your children, For I have a plan for them."
Would you do it?
Yes or No?
If I were to question the will of God it doesn't say much for my faith does it?
What about you, Johnny? If you had indisputable proof of the existence of God would you question his will?
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What is it about serving another that give me a big ego?
Serving is about putting the needs of someone else before the needs of my own.
If god is infinite and you are finite then you cant increase his glory. ∞+k=∞
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How exactly would killing thousands of innocent people honor God?
Now if God told me to (and I KNEW it was God) and he said, "go forth and fly this plane into that building - Johnny Apollo is in it" then yes. Yes I would. ;)
I bet you would even SPEED UP! LOL that was funny w8!
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If god is infinite and you are finite then you cant increase his glory. ∞+k=∞
You can't increase His glory but you can please him by giving Him glory....
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If I were to question the will of God it doesn't say much for my faith does it?
What about you, Johnny? If you had indisputable proof of the existence of God would you question his will?
Now it is easy to understand how the muslims go about strapping bombs to themselves because they are convinced it is the will of God. By the way all the Christians who hate islamic mofos don't realize that Allah is just Arabic for God aka Jehovah.
About 1000 yrs ago the christians did the middle ages equivalent of strapping bombs and going into the middle east to attempt to ransack the wealth of the Islamic empire. They were convinced like these nut jobs are that it is the will of God and that it must be carried out and that the Muslims were infidels etc.
It is sure scary to think people like you will do crazy acts based on a book of questionable authenticity (here I am being generous by not calling it an outright fabrication which it what it really is) or based upon a figure who draws authority from the book. Pray tell me how you will verify the authenticity of Gods command when he urges you do kill your kids. Will your God speak through you minister/pastor? Or will he speak to you in your dreams. How will you verify its authenticity? What do you feel about the recent case (memory fails me here) of a woman who claimed that she killed her kids because God ordered her to. Should she be set free?
Another question (this is what I heard in a Baptist church service I attended on Easter when I was invited by a woman who cooks some of the most elaborate and greatestestest meals you could ever feast on). The deluded pastor was taking about ressurection. It was all God's plan is what Jesus tells his apostles who find him dead and then resurrected and cannot believe he is going to leave them when in fact they had hoped that he would vanquish his opponents. Jesus talks about Gods plan, that his son (JC himself) needs to die on the cross for our sins (thank you very much ::)) followed by a resurrection which will be a beacon of hope for future christians and to all people, a glorious and climactic conclusion to the Divine show. At that point I felt like asking the pastor if it is all gods plan then Judas was just an instrument, a pawn in the episode who was impelled into betraying JC.
So logical religion is ::)
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I would hope to be as obedient as Abraham.....
thats what them bombers that blow themselves sincierly believe bro :-\
they r really trying to be obedient to allah..
regardless of where they r brain washed lunatics..they believe wat they r doing is right also :-\
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Would you fly a plane into a building "For the glory of God"?
If God told you to fly a plane into a building and you KNEW it was god..Would you do it?
Yes or No?
Uh, no. ::)
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Welcome back beyond_genetics, er uh, snatch_clean. Where ya been, bro? Good to have you back into the debate mix. You have some stiff competition in our buddy, Johnny Apollo. Seems the two of you have a likeness towards the "seeing is believing" motto.
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How exactly would killing thousands of innocent people honor God?
Now if God told me to (and I KNEW it was God) and he said, "go forth and fly this plane into that building - Johnny Apollo is in it" then yes. Yes I would. ;)
Aw, See? Now W8, that was just wrong. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :) ;) :D ;D
I BUSTED out laughing when I read this post. That was just straight up wrong, bro. lol!
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Now it is easy to understand how the muslims go about strapping bombs to themselves because they are convinced it is the will of God. By the way all the Christians who hate islamic mofos don't realize that Allah is just Arabic for God aka Jehovah.
About 1000 yrs ago the christians did the middle ages equivalent of strapping bombs and going into the middle east to attempt to ransack the wealth of the Islamic empire. They were convinced like these nut jobs are that it is the will of God and that it must be carried out and that the Muslims were infidels etc.
It is sure scary to think people like you will do crazy acts based on a book of questionable authenticity (here I am being generous by not calling it an outright fabrication which it what it really is) or based upon a figure who draws authority from the book. Pray tell me how you will verify the authenticity of Gods command when he urges you do kill your kids. Will your God speak through you minister/pastor? Or will he speak to you in your dreams. How will you verify its authenticity? What do you feel about the recent case (memory fails me here) of a woman who claimed that she killed her kids because God ordered her to. Should she be set free?
Another question (this is what I heard in a Baptist church service I attended on Easter when I was invited by a woman who cooks some of the most elaborate and greatestestest meals you could ever feast on). The deluded pastor was taking about ressurection. It was all God's plan is what Jesus tells his apostles who find him dead and then resurrected and cannot believe he is going to leave them when in fact they had hoped that he would vanquish his opponents. Jesus talks about Gods plan, that his son (JFC himself) needs to die on the cross for our sins (thank you very much ::)) followed by a resurrection which will be a beacon of hope for future christians and to all people, a glorious and climactic conclusion to the Divine show. At that point I felt like asking the pastor if it is all gods plan then Judas was just an instrument, a pawn in the episode who was impelled into betraying JFC.
So logical religion is ::)
I will not deny that man's history is stained with the attrocities committed in the name of God and religion. More proof of the lengths man will go to twist mankind's faith in God in order to further their own evil agenda. Johnny was just writing in another thread about Adolph Hitler's beliefs in God and how (in his mind) it justified his hatred of the Jews.
You need to re-read Johnny's question again. It was if we KNEW (without a doubt) that it was God would we still do as he commanded.
So I ask you and Johnny, if you were to meet God and he proved to you beyond the shadow of a doubt that he was indeed the one true almighty creator would you obey his commands?
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Aw, See? Now W8, that was just wrong. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :) ;) :D ;D
I BUSTED out laughing when I read this post. That was just straight up wrong, bro. lol!
I know. I have a dark sense of humor. :P
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I will not deny that man's history is stained with the attrocities committed in the name of God and religion. More proof of the lengths man will go to twist mankind's faith in God in order to further their own evil agenda. Johnny was just writing in another thread about Adolph Hitler's beliefs in God and how (in his mind) it justified his hatred of the Jews.
You need to re-read Johnny's question again. It was if we KNEW (without a doubt) that it was God would we still do as he commanded.
So I ask you and Johnny, if you were to meet God and he proved to you beyond the shadow of a doubt that he was indeed the one true almighty creator would you obey his commands?
Since we are playing what-ifs. If he existed and proved in a manner that is indisputable and then ordered me to murder my kids I would tell him that he can do it himself. My escape route would be that I am a mere human who is chained by the bonds of love for ones kin and such a love will not allow me to do it. He is God and no task is impossible for him so he can do what he wants. In other words I won't do his bidding, definitely not of my own volition.
There is always a logical way out!
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Since we are playing what-ifs. If he existed and proved in a manner that is indisputable and then ordered me to murder my kids I would tell him that he can do it himself. My escape route would be that I am a mere human who is chained by the bonds of love for ones kin and such a love will not allow me to do it. He is God and no task is impossible for him so he can do what he wants. In other words I won't do his bidding, definitely not of my own volition.
There is always a logical way out!
Your not thinking it through.....
IF God appeared and proved to you everything, that he sent His son to die for YOU that you and your child could have eternal life through repentance, you wouldn't sacrifice your own child to Him even though He sacrificed his for you?
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Your not thinking it through.....
IF God appeared and proved to you everything, that he sent His son to die for YOU that you and your child could have eternal life through repentance, you wouldn't sacrifice your own child to Him even though He sacrificed his for you?
Since his son already did the dying there is no reason mine should! ;)
I can't really play what ifs. Besides you get eternal life one way or the other. I would rather trust to be in hell than live in Heaven with a guy requires murder their way into the club. The fact you can even hypothetically pose this question about your loving and merciful god is....(complete the sentence).
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When has He required murder? And Johnny boy is the one who brought up the question in the first place. I am just entertaining it for boardoms sake......
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Since his son already did the dying there is no reason mine should! ;)
I can't really play what ifs. Besides you get eternal life one way or the other. I would rather trust to be in hell than live in Heaven with a guy requires murder their way into the club. The fact you can even hypothetically pose this question about your loving and merciful god is....(complete the sentence).
SC, whether you want Him to be or not, he's YOUR loving and merciful God too. ;)
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IF God appeared and proved to you everything
bingo mate...
thats what would take for me to believe in god! :)
and EVERY other athiest out there..
plus crime would virtually disappear...
wonder why he is not doing it
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For my religion? No.
For the glory of God? No.
To preserve the life of my children ? YES .
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bingo mate...
thats what would take for me to believe in god! :)
and EVERY other athiest out there..
plus crime would virtually disappear...
wonder why he is not doing it
I think that goes back to our 'free will' debate, Toxic.
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bingo mate...
thats what would take for me to believe in god! :)
and EVERY other athiest out there..
plus crime would virtually disappear...
wonder why he is not doing it
Thats what he did bro and they crucified Him.....what makes you think today would be any different? Also look at Isreal in the desert, all that God did before their very eyes and they still turned their hearts away from Him and worshiped other gods.
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Thats what he did bro and they crucified Him.....what makes you think today would be any different? Also look at Isreal in the desert, all that God did before their very eyes and they still turned their hearts away from Him and worshiped other Gods.
Well said, GB.
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Would I die before renouncing my faith in God? Yes.
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Anyone who wouldnt simply doesnt have enough faith.. And Im not talking abt whackos killing innocent people either. What Im saying is more a long the lines of what Colossus said, and fighting for a good cause.
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Anyone who wouldnt simply doesnt have enough faith.. And Im not talking abt whackos killing innocent people either. What Im saying is more a long the lines of what Colossus said, and fighting for a good cause.
A good enough cause for muslims is people who aren't muslims. Evidence for this statement? The koran, and the daily acts of terrorism performed around the world on a daily basis.
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haha, lets see your evidence, though no matter what I say or what I refute, you wouldnt care cause what you believe already is the result of pure hate and ignorance.
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It's written in the koran, can't be arsed finding quotes but they're there.
Real world facts come from the events across the world such as darfur sudan, 911, madrid, london bombings, beheading of children in indonesia, daily bombings in iraq etc etc, all in the name of your pig faith.
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haha, and how many people are being killed in the name of your "secular democracy"?? Your argument is pathetic at best, and your deductions are downright retarded(deviod of rationale, but full of ignorance and hate). Lets see the Quranic verses, Im callin you out you lyin scumbag!
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"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, (which is Islam that abolishes all other religions ) of the people of the Book, (meaning the Jews and the Christians ) until they pay the Jizya (the tax imposed upon them) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued . (with humiliation and submission to the government of Islam.) 9:29."
"When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful." Sura 9:5
"Narrated Abdullah: Allah's Messenger said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Messenger, cannot be shed except in three cases: in Qisas (equality in punishment) for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (Apostate) and leaves the Muslims."
Narrated Ali, "Whenever I tell you a narration from Allah's messenger, by Allah, I would rather fall down from the sky, then ascribe a false statement to him, but if I tell you something between me and you, (not a Hadith), then it was indeed a trick (i.e., I may say things just to cheat my enemy). No doubt I heard Allah's messenger saying, "During the last days there will appear some young foolish people, who will say the best words, but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will leave the faith) and will go out from their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."
Not only did Muhammad teach that Muslims are to murder those that have left Islam, "wherever you find them", he further taught that a Muslim who commits this type of murder will be doing God's service and be rewarded!
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An owning will be commenced pretty soon, just let me take care of this phy shit i need to study for :D
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I'll give u a chance though, to get out of this one without being humiliated...Read 2-3 verses before and after the verses u posted within context and think to yourself whether they really call for the killing of innocent non-muslims.
So it is upto you for now, can u muster up the balls to be open-minded?
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Who's the one being closed minded? You are young satan follower!
Now go and molest some children like your prophet muhammad (may pig cock be inside him) used to in the good ol' days!
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lol, back to the childish insults, such a pussy..Can u simply not even make the effort to understand the shit you're posting? so you're posting verses out of context, without any understanding of it, and refuse to go back and simply, just SIMPLY read 2-3 verses before and after the verses you posted(and then proceed to call me ignorant ;D). Its no problem for me to prove you wrong, but I dont see the point if nothing is gained out of it(Ive done plenty of that when crapture was around). All Im asking for is for you to understand what YOU are posting.
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lol, back to the childish insults, such a pussy..Can u simply not even make the effort to understand the shit you're posting? so you're posting verses out of context, without any understanding of it, and refuse to go back and simply, just SIMPLY read 2-3 verses before and after the verses you posted(and then proceed to call me ignorant ;D). Its no problem for me to prove you wrong, but I dont see the point if nothing is gained out of it(Ive done plenty of that when crapture was around). All Im asking for is for you to understand what YOU are posting.
Haider, could you also have a little talk with Johnny Apollo also? :P
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lol, back to the childish insults, such a pussy..Can u simply not even make the effort to understand the shit you're posting? so you're posting verses out of context, without any understanding of it, and refuse to go back and simply, just SIMPLY read 2-3 verses before and after the verses you posted(and then proceed to call me ignorant ;D). Its no problem for me to prove you wrong, but I dont see the point if nothing is gained out of it(Ive done plenty of that when crapture was around). All Im asking for is for you to understand what YOU are posting.
Do you have any Jewish friends?
muslims aren't supposed to have Jewish friends -- or have I read that verse out of context again?
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I'm diggin up the verse now, I need to understand that one too..
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O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors; they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust. (The Noble Quran, 5:51)"
"O ye who believe! Take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery or sport - whether among those who received the Scripture (i.e., the Bible) before you, or among those who reject Faith; but fear ye Allah, if ye have Faith (indeed). (The Noble Quran, 5:57)"
"Yea, to those who take for friends unbelievers rather than believers: is it honour they seek among them? Nay,- all honour is with God. (The Noble Quran, 4:139)"
"O ye who believe! Turn not (for friendship) To people on whom Is the Wrath of Allah. Of the Hereafter they are Already in despair, just as The Unbelievers are In despair about those (Buried) in graves. (The Noble Quran, 60:13)"
In these verses posted above, the word that is used to descrbie "friends" is the arabic word "Awliya", which can mean (1) Allies; (2) Friends; and (3) Guardians. Now in verse 60:13, the word "tatawallu" is used instead of "awliya", which is actually dervied from the same word.
So follow me here. "Wali", which is the singular for "Awliya" means "guardian",as in a protector or a child's guardian(parents or an uncle, w/e). So depending on the context, the word can ahve different meanings, its just not translated appropriattely in some translations.
Lets take 60:13 again, "la tatawallu qawman"...which translates into "dont take as allies a tribe (a community,or nation)"
So we're not talking abt individual friendships here, plus there is also an emphasis on "rather than take a muslim as a guardian/protector/etc" I'm sure chrisitans would be the same way, they would rather trust a person of their own faith. simple.
I dont see why Islam would prohibit it since we're told to attract others to our faith based on how we act, and what better way than to be kind and friendly to them...
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if u want a more detailed explantion(which Im sure u do! :P), I wouldnt be able to right now simply because I dont have my Quran with me at the moment.
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Hmm, the problem with your translation is with the semantics due to the Arabic translations.
I personally interpret those versus like: "as a muslim you should not befriend non-believers, Jews or Christians."
Heres a fact Haidar: You ARE a muslim, you seem UNABLE to comprehend that your view is biased. No matter WHAT YOU SAY there will ALWAYS be bias in your arguement on this topic.
You can twist the semantics all day long and tell me about how the koran cannot be properly translated to English to reveal it's true meaning. But you do this to protect islam.
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oh brother, not the same shit OVER and OVER..the simple fact is that you talk a lot shit but you have NOTHING to back up your statements besides your own prejudices and ignorant 'beliefs' abt islam...I had a similar reply to this kind of nonsense on the other thread if u forgot...
You're hopeless. Ofcourse I have a fuckin bias dumbass, my point of view is exactly the opposite of yours, hence you'll think I'm biased. You have shown ZERO objectivity, all you do is come up with idle one liners and continue to repeat this bullshit over and over, and u tell me that I'm biased. "uh...Islam is evil...No, Jews are not hated by God...bla bla bla.." The very fact that you cry bias on me tellsme how narrow your POV is, add that to the fact that you came to Israel's rescue when I was only joking...Yes, THAT is biased. That you have nothing negative to say abt Israel but jump on the bandwagon when it comes to Islamic hate, that tells me you're biased.
Hope this helps.
There is no twisting of the semantics, THATS JUST HOW THE LANGUAGE IS AND YOU KNOW DAMN WELL THAT THE SAME WORD CAN HAVE DIFFERENT MEANINGS IN THE SAME LANGUAGE. Not only did I show you that it can have different meanings, but also showed you why it would have a certain meaning in the context based on WHAT THE SENTENCE IS ITSELF!
I sense an insecurity on your part to simply let go of your baseless prejudice, I dont see why but it is true. so as an athiest you wanna interpret verses YOUR way, and have completely made up your mind without any insight into the subject. If thats not biased, and blind hatred, I dont know what is, my enemy friend.
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Haider, could you also have a little talk with Johnny Apollo also? :P
hey man! hows it goin? (glad to see mr phD isnt around ::), he seemed alright at first but hes one annoying assmunch)
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oh brother, not the same shit OVER and OVER..the simple fact is that you talk a lot shit but you have NOTHING to back up your statements besides your own prejudices and ignorant 'beliefs' abt islam...I had a similar reply to this kind of nonsense on the other thread if u forgot...
There is no twisting of the semantics, THATS JUST HOW THE LANGUAGE IS AND YOU KNOW DAMN WELL THAT THE SAME WORD CAN HAVE DIFFERENT MEANINGS IN THE SAME LANGUAGE. Not only did I show you that it can have different meanings, but also showed you why it would have a certain meaning in the context based on WHAT THE SENTENCE IS ITSELF!
I sense an insecurity on your part to simply let go of your baseless prejudice, I dont see why but it is true. so as an athiest you wanna interpret verses YOUR way, and have completely made up your mind without any insight into the subject. If thats not biased, and blind hatred, I dont know what is, my enemy friend.
Meltdown
You say i'm repetetive but all you can do is iterate thru the same arguement, boring.
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thats all you got? ::)
PUSSDOWN!!
and i dont see where the repitition is?
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I like this techno stuff prodigy made though, whatever the hell happened to them?
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Yeah i'm working, and you're not worth it considering you can't take the koran out of the context of you islamic mind.
I like this techno stuff prodigy made though, whatever the hell happened to them?
Think they're smack heads now.
Try this track: Chemical Brothers - Galvanize
Even has a nice Indian hindi beat in it for yah.
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no, sick of hearing that song at the ballgames, was never impressed w/ it in the first place, thanks for the suggestion though.
did u say ure at work now?
oh, and what u said after that makes no sense, just drop it seriously. There is nothing for you to say on this subject that is worthwhile/intelligent.
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did u say ure at work now?
I work for myself and I've done nothing all day, just got a pizza in and work shall commence.
did u say ure at work now?
oh, and what u said after that makes no sense, just drop it seriously. There is nothing for you to say on this subject that is worthwhile/intelligent.
Translation: Yes you're right I can't see it from anybody else's perspective (because I am a biased muslim) or accept that other people don't agree with the "teachings" of islam. Just drop it because you're starting to make me think twice and you're upsetting me! I don't want to bring shame on my family! There is nothing you can say that I am willing to listen to because I fear you might be right!
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see if u had an intelligent perspective, I WOULD give it a second thought. All your nonsense is baseless, hateful, repetiive bullshit....these are ideas that u cling to for watever reason (that u cannot back up as we have witnessed in this thread)....its impossible to have an intteligent, rational conversation with u because obviously when u have nothing to backup what u say, u start posting childish insults.
And the biggest irony here is that u call ME biased.. that seriously makes me giggle everytime I read that... u tell me that Im not open to ideas when all u have to say to my replies is that I'm biased. So YOU refuse to listen to anything else besided your own opinion, then you are also the one who tells me I'm being protective against foreign perspective oh the irony...
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someone please stamp this thread as an owning already...Im getting tired bitches >:(
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someone please stamp this thread as an owning already...Im getting tired bitches >:(
Can't claim an ownage, it's gotta be called from someone else!
And i'm glad I make you laugh! Did Aisha laugh when muhammad tickled her when she was 9 years old? :-\
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thanks for proving my point jackass...
anyway, thats the very reaosn I didnt call it myself, I want someone to call it already so I can get back to my physics >:(
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Are you denying muhammad fucked a nine year old girl?
Did he or did he not fuck Aisha when she was 9?
YES/NO answer please, if you're a big enough man to do so.
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NO, I dont believe so. But seriously STFU already, u keep jumping from topic to topic and Im not gonna sit here and chase everyone one of your misconceptions. Be a fukin man and accept the fact that uve been "fill in the blanks" already.
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NO, I dont believe so. But seriously STFU already, u keep jumping from topic to topic and Im not gonna sit here and chase everyone one of your misconceptions. Be a fukin man and accept the fact that uve been "fill in the blanks" already.
There are several hadiths (said to have been narrated by Aisha herself) which state she was six or seven years old when betrothed and nine when the marriage was consummated.
He DID fuck a nine year old! Such a great man! ::)
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oh brother, what an attempt to save yourself from humiliation. Stop changing the topic already, I promise I wont humiliate u anymore by exposing your ignorance. Its fantastic to see u claim ur own words as evidence though, nice work dumbass.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha
Many Muslim scholars have accepted the tradition that Aisha was nine years old when the marriage was consummated. This has in turn led critics to denounce Muhammad for having sexual relations with a girl so young, which in modern times would be classified as child sexual abuse. Some respond to this criticism by claiming that Aisha was post-pubescent at nine and that early marriages were common in most cultures until fairly recent times.
Ignorance is bliss isn't it Haider?
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If that is true, then the answer is right there in the quote you posted, oh and thanks for pointing something out against your own argument, fuckin dumbass ;D
"Some respond to this criticism by claiming that Aisha was post-pubescent at nine and that early marriages were common in most cultures until fairly recent times."
this was 1400 yrs ago, if what u are claiming is something that is so bad, then why didnt his enemies in his own times speak of this in a dishonorable way? I've also read some verses in the old testament that allow girls of an even younger age to get married....but I still dont see evidence of him engaging in sexual activities with her.
Before u jump to conclusions and judgements u HAVE to know the historical context and tradition, otherwise ur judgements are useless. You havent read anythign abt Muhammed(pbuh) besides the googled up shit you read, so you wouldnt know abt his true character that many CHRISTIAN scholars have written abt in an honorable way...
Im really TIRED dude, Im just bordering on the meltdown phase...Your changing subjects are pathetic and DEVIOUS because u cant stick to one argument as u have no knowledge of your own.
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"Some respond to this criticism by claiming that Aisha was post-pubescent at nine and that early marriages were common in most cultures until fairly recent times."
Note the words: SOME, CLAIMING. Not definitive. Being "post-pubescent" at nine is bullshit too. "Oh look boys! She's good to go! Come and devour her muhammad!"
Read it all:
Many Muslim scholars have accepted the tradition that Aisha was nine years old when the marriage was consummated.
Are you above a muslim scholar? Yeah I guess you are, you know everything about islam ::)
Keep back tracking Haider, you're embarrassing yourself.
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Unbelievable, you are pathetic and hopeless.
Im done for now, fucker.
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Unbelievable, you are pathetic and hopeless.
Im done for now, fucker.
I apologise for upsetting you :'( :-*
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha
Ignorance is bliss isn't it Haider?
My dear fellow I don't see how this is a true indictment of Islam. the Ancient Greeks had sex with young boys. Being attached to a mentor who would impart philosophy and a wider rectum was part of Greek culture, that fountainhead of western civilization.
And early puberty my ass. Women reach puberty depending on their quality of life. Hunter gatherer women frequently hit puberty very late (typically in their late teens sometimes as late as 20 yrs) while people in 3rd world countries hit puberty in their mid teens and the industrialized world its normal for 12 year olds to get pregnant (I read a while ago that the youngest woman pregnant was some British tart). Though Islamic culture reached its golden age about a 100-200 (not sure of the exact time frame) yrs after Mohds death, during his time the quality of life could not be considered ideal for early onset puberty.
By the late/early puberty is not some home-baked theory. My reference is Mother nature by Sarah Hrdy. Unlike you Manni I quote peer reviewed publications not wikipedia.
BTW Islam is another crap Judeo-Christian faith. About as useful as a root canal procedure performed in the anus.
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You need to post evidence my friend.
I know Greeks and Romans were open about homosexuality but some of the shit you said needs evidence for any credability to be applied to it.
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You need to post evidence my friend.
I know Greeks and Romans were open about homosexuality but some of the shit you said needs evidence for any credability to be applied to it.
Read Greek Homosexuality by K J Dover. That you don't know greeks were pedos is rather surprising considering your own erudition ::). Do you know who Ganymede is? Zeus's boy-lover and cup-bearer of the gods whom he kidnapped (or had kidnapped, some say Apollo did the job for dad). LOL. Do I call that another 0wning? You are making it a habit of getting trounced so easily!
In any case the British 12 yr old pregnancy I cannot show any evidence but I do not think you live under a rock. Teenage pregnancy in the west is a problem. In any case I am not going to hunt about in the microfilms to tell you what I know for certain.
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I'll investigate, and get back to you :-*
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I'll investigate, and get back to you :-*
Investigate what? Ganymede is a rather well known figure in greek mythology. There is a moon of Jupiter called ganymede. He was a youth abducted by Zeus to serve as the cup-bearer of the gods and his personal lover. The greeks loved their male lovers to be young. I am laughing at your ignorance!
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Investigate what? Ganymede is a rather well known figure in greek mythology. There is a moon of Jupiter called ganymede. He was a youth abducted by Zeus to serve as the cup-bearer of the gods and his personal lover. The greeks loved their male lovers to be young. I am laughing at your ignorance!
You laugh at me but I applaud your usage of the Wikipedia! Well done!
The point is this is all history with the greeks. muslims still continue to praise muhammad the pedo to this day.
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You laugh at me but I applaud your usage of the Wikipedia! Well done!
The point is this is all history with the greeks. muslims still continue to praise muhammad the pedo to this day.
Is this how you try to wiggle out of a tight spot, by deflecting attention to irrelevant minutea? You are the one who probably went to wikipedia to check out my statements. The fact I dispelled your ignorance which you admitted to in an earlier post (please read your earlier posts where you asked evidence because what I said was news to you). You are are like the cookie thief when caught with his hand in the jar says he was counting the number to see if it none were stolen.
I have read parts of Dover's book for an Ancient Civilizations class (Greek, Mesopotamian, Chinese, IVC and Egypt), although I only read those parts that the professor gave as class handouts. I honestly (not at all sarcastic) assumed you were familiar with Ancient Greek pedo-homosexuality. Your ignorance is on record here.
And my dear fellow, Ganymede is a well known figure in Greek mythology, something that does not need a citation. For instance when I say that centrifugation occurs at Froude # >=1 I don't need to cite that either but you asking for evidence exposes your feeble knowledge.
I almost always cite scholarly references, e.g. the early onset puberty is a well documented in Hrdy's book where better quality of life (food, shelter etc) help reduce the age where women hit puberty. It is a fascinating book, stuff like co-operation and warfare among apes, spontaneous abortion in certain organisms where the female aborts the fetuses if they are female and resources are scarce etc.
Socrates is still praised today when he was a well known pedo. The word lesbian is of greek extraction for the poet who lived on Lesbos and fucked her young students.
Don't argue about the stupidity of Islam with me. It is a stupid religion like all other Abrahamic religions but your own ignorance has already been exposed at least on two different occasions by me.
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Man, your usage of big words is fucking pathetic.
I accept what you said about Greek homosexuality, where did I say I didn't? ???
I said it was a part of HISTORY. No one applauds their behaviour, but muhammad is still applauded to this very day.
That is my point against you.
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I accept what you said about Greek homosexuality, where did I say I didn't? ???
Ohh really??
You need to post evidence my friend.
I know Greeks and Romans were open about homosexuality but some of the shit you said needs evidence for any credability to be applied to it.
Which means you did not agree or at least had some doubts as to whether pedophilia was socially acceptable in Ancient Greece. Pedophilia was not considered to be a paraphilia. It was socially acceptable for rich upper class males to young lover boys with whom they discussed art and philosophy.
I say this without guile, that when you start slipping up and know its a lost cause you try to act as though you were in agreement with me all along except for one or two points.
Mohommad isn't celebrated by Muslims as a pedophile. Muslims contend that Mohd was a man of his times and married young girls which was not an offensive practise those days just as it was perfectly normal for the Ancient Greeks to deny women suffrage, for the "founding fathers" to own slaves. Other mitigating factors that Muslims put forth in defence of Mohd pedo activities is that she was post pubescent (which is unlikely because leading a hard life is not conducive to early onset puberty) or that he married her to seal some important diplomatic accord and didn't f**k her until some later date etc. Now don't point out some mistakes in my supposed defense of Mohd as this is what most Muslims say. I never claimed to be an Islamic studies scholar as that would be an utter waste of time. I am merely pointing out that they celebrate him for being the last prophet just as socrates is celebrated for his study of philosophy.
PS: Isn't Oscar Wilde celebrated in England even though he was convicted of sodomy charges against minors?
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Right... I wasn't totally clued up on homo-pedo relationships in ancient Greece so I wanted some evidence? Where's the problem?
I didn't disagree, just asked for EVIDENCE.
Then you continue to go off on one. Well done :-\
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:o I just finished reading this entire thread, ...and I'm appalled ...it was just painful to watch.
Although I am impressed by the surgical precision with which Manni has been repeatedly dispatched. ;D
Haider, Snatch_clean, ...you guys picking on mental midgets again? tsk tsk. Bullies >:(
This wasn't an owning, ...it was a MASSACRE!
Don't worry Manni, I got what you need...
(http://www.gumey.com/coffee/images/ambulance.jpg)
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OK "jag" ::)
Thank "God" I'm not a black lesbian midget with an IQ of 175 from Canada!
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Thank you jag, thats what I needed to get out of this thread. Manni's persisting idiocy is pretty entertaining actually 8)
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(http://www.heroesonline.com/Photos/hc05/big/david-brent.jpg)
I'm an entertainer 1st, a debater 2nd! :-*
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OK "jag" ::)
Thank "God" I'm not a black lesbian midget with an IQ of 175 from Canada!
So now I'm a lesbian midget now? ::) {sigh} If nothing else, ...at least your MO is consistent.
Thanks for the additional IQ points though. Truth is, it's only 160, ...but hey I won't object to the other 15
It's kind of ironic that you'd give me extra IQ points, ...especially since I lose so many just reading your posts
(http://www.heroesonline.com/Photos/hc05/big/david-brent.jpg)
I'm an entertainer 1st, a debater 2nd! :-*
Judging by the content of your posts, I would use other words to describe you in those first & 2nd slots.
To be perfectly frank, neither "entertainer" nor "debater" would even make it into the top 10. {LOL}
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Thanks for the additional IQ points though. Truth is, it's only 160, ...but hey I won't object to the other 15
Fuck me ::) Jags a genius, who would of thought all that intelligence and knowledge would fit in that midget lesbian brain of hers! :-\
You haven't got a IQ of 160, you're just a know it all. Mentioning elavated IQ = no credability
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f**k me ::)
HELL NO! ...not if you were the last man on earth! That's when I'd really turn lesbian for sure!
Jags a genius,
Ya, BFD! IQ doesn't mean you're intelligent, just that you have a greater capacity for intelligence
who would of thought all that intelligence and knowledge would fit in that midget lesbian brain of hers! :-\
You haven't got a IQ of 160, you're just a know it all. Mentioning elavated IQ = no credability
Which probably explains why you were the first to even make mention of it. 8)
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I think I'm gonna follow Haider's lead, ...and git while the gittin's good,
or this guy will keep me here all evening with nothing but stupid childish insults.
I will leave you with a little present for your booboos though. Don't say I never gave you nuthin'
(http://www.spiralandcircle.com/monkey%20bandages.jpg)
Ciao!
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I think I'm gonna follow Haider's lead, ...and git while the gittin's good,
or this guy will keep me here all evening with nothing but stupid childish insults.
I will leave you with a little present for your booboos though. Don't say I never gave you nuthin'
(http://www.spiralandcircle.com/monkey%20bandages.jpg)
Ciao!
Oooooooooooohhhh.... I like those. Where can I get some? :) :) :)
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Personally I wouldn't die for my religion. i would die for God. My stance is that there is no real "right" religion. I was raised Catholic, but I have found that I agree with things from other religions as well. I have yet to be convinced that any single religion is correct. After all, religion was created by man, through his intreprations and needs, thus it is fallible. just my opinion.
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Thats what he did bro and they crucified Him.....
but he's god..even if they crisify him he's afraid of a little pain?
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Anyone who wouldnt simply doesnt have enough faith.. And Im not talking abt whackos killing innocent people either. What Im saying is more a long the lines of what Colossus said, and fighting for a good cause.
line between wacko and good cause = definition of good cause...
the 911 fuckers thought twas a great cause!
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line between wacko and good cause = definition of good cause...
the 911 fuckers thought twas a great cause!
And if Bin Laden believe the crap he was spewing he would of sacrificed himself.
Just another example of those who twist the word of God to suit their own evil agendas. >:(
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And if Bin Laden believe the crap he was spewing he would of sacrificed himself.
Just another example of those who twist the word of God to suit their own evil agendas. >:(
Playing devils advocate here....Osama is the leader. Meaning his worth is more than that of self sacrifice. He is the leader and organizer and he would serve Allah better being alive than dead. Osama's existence is far from posh..Living in caves.
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This topic caught my attention.
I have to be honest and seriously say that I am willing to spill my blood and receive death for my religion, for Jesus, and for the HolyGod that I believe in.
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This topic caught my attention.
I have to be honest and seriously say that I am willing to spill my blood and receive death for my religion, for Jesus, and for the HolyGod that I believe in.
funny i thought the bible had a problem with gays....i will check into it again though i may have misread.
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Gays are accepted in the United Church of Canada and can even be ministers.
So I see no problem with being a gay christian.
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If God commanded you to kill your children would you do it?
Let's forget about "why" he might do this. Just answer the question.
If you KNEW it was God and he said "Kill your children, For I have a plan for them."
Would you do it?
Yes or No?
I'd tell him to stick his request up his ass.
That goes for Lot offering his virgin daughters to a horny mob.
Or him telling moses to kill 3000 men women and children.
Or killing Jews.... know what i mean Herr Johnny?
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This topic caught my attention.
I have to be honest and seriously say that I am willing to spill my blood and receive death for my religion, for Jesus, and for the HolyGod that I believe in.
ok then every ONE OF YOU that ws shocked over 911 should not be.
and everyone of you that believes the above in quotes is EXACTLY like those terrorists..yall should actually admire them
they died for their religion and died doing what they believed ws right.
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ok then every ONE OF YOU that ws shocked over 911 should not be.
and everyone of you that believes the above in quotes is EXACTLY like those terrorists..yall should actually admire them
they died for their religion and died doing what they believed ws right.
Man should I be a moderator or what! ;D
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i'm a little PMSy today ;D
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ok then every ONE OF YOU that ws shocked over 911 should not be.
and everyone of you that believes the above in quotes is EXACTLY like those terrorists..yall should actually admire them
they died for their religion and died doing what they believed ws right.
Except they believe their religion is true and Islam is false.
So they'll never admit that. Even though it's absolutely true.
A christian willing to die for christianity is just as dangerous as a muslim willing to die for Islam.
Both are potential terrorists...Willing to die for Dogma.
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Except they believe their religion is true and Islam is false.
So they'll never admit that. Even though it's absolutely true.
A christian willing to die for christianity is just as dangerous as a muslim willing to die for Islam.
Both are potential terrorists...Willing to die for Dogma.
eh..the amereekan blame the ragheads..the regheads out in the middle east are pissed over having amreekans there and blame everything on us...
except..BOTH sides are in disagreement BECAUSE OF TEIR SIMILARITIES.
why is it obvious only to me?
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If you KNEW, if its possible, that God wanted to you to kill someone how could you not do it????
But i highly doubt it is possible to know any such thing
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If you KNEW, if its possible, that God wanted to you to kill someone how could you not do it????
But i highly doubt it is possible to know any such thing
Wouldn't be possible to distinguish delusion from reality. However religious nuts will claim they "would just know". ::) That's what makes them so dangerous.
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Dying for your religion is something that should be done on your own as a individual and not like those arab lunatics who have been labeled as "suicide bombers" when they murder innocent people during their kamakazee acts of terrorism.
Maybe I just might do something on my own as a individual just to prove a point about death.
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Dying for your religion is something that should be done on your own as a individual and not like those arab lunatics who have been labeled as "suicide bombers" when they murder innocent people during their kamakazee acts of terrorism.
Maybe I just might do something on my own as a individual just to prove a point about death.
i support your right to kill yourself, good for you take a stand.
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I am considering whether or not I should wait for a week or 2 to decide if I should take a fatal stand for my religious beliefs because there are too many terrorist arabs acting out as "suicide bombers" in the name of their allah god.
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I am considering whether or not I should wait for a week or 2 to decide if I should take a fatal stand for my religious beliefs because there are too many terrorist arabs acting out as "suicide bombers" in the name of their allah god.
It's all about timing, you need to kill yourself at a time when you can get the most media coverage. Some where in between suicide bombings in the middleeast and Bush's probes into gasoline price hiking would be best.
Please give everyone here at least 24 hrs notice.
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We all are already dead....it's just a matter of where & when.
Makes no difference to me.
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"It's all about timing, you need to kill yourself at a time when you can get the most media coverage."
I don't want any media coverage because I'm not in the class of the Great Princess Diana, the HolyMother Teresa, John F Kennedy Jr, Dale Earnhardt, Aaliyah Haughton, Paul Wellstone, and Udai or Kusai Hussein.
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I don't want any media coverage because I'm not in the class of the Great Princess Diana, the HolyMother Teresa, John F Kennedy Jr, Dale Earnhardt, Aaliyah Haughton, Paul Wellstone, and Udai or Kusai Hussein.
Well then feel free at anytime to die for your religion.
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I haven't decided yet because I don't know if I have a lethal weapon and besides that, the thought of terrorist arabs blowing themselves up to be jihadist martyrs makes me side with the Israeli victims of "suicide bombers".
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I am considering whether or not I should wait for a week or 2 to decide if I should take a fatal stand for my religious beliefs because there are too many terrorist arabs acting out as "suicide bombers" in the name of their allah god.
Yea, find them christian arabs who worship this 'allah' god, dumbass ::)
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That allah god only exists in their wild imagination.
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if i was suicidal i would be the first suicide bomber to blow up a mosque in america. fighting terror with terror
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if i was suicidal i would be the first suicide bomber to blow up a mosque in america. fighting terror with terror
oh brother, tell me you're joking dood...
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"fighting terror with terror"
That comment sounded like one of (W. Bush) junior's sickest and meanest jokes when he likes to tell people how much collateral damage was caused by the armed forces attempt to break up a suspected terrorist training camp that did not exist in a Iraqi civilian community.
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if i was suicidal i would be the first suicide bomber to blow up a mosque in america. fighting terror with terror
actually..even though i come from a muslim family..a small wee part of my mind went..."fuck ya" ..and in your face kinda approval...
:-[
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The point is whether or not dying for your religion would affect the world in any significant way.