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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: MCWAY on April 30, 2021, 06:32:44 PM
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I found this tidbit, while looking at Met-Rx commercials.
It had been nearly a quarter century since an American won a World's Strongest Man contest (Bill Kazmaier, 1982). But, Pfister brought home the gold to the USA in 2006.
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There was a huge American dude when I was in college, Johnny Perry I think, and he was crushing the qualifiers and then when the episode ended it showed a pic of him and and RIP. Dude was 27 if I remember correctly.
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There was a huge American dude when I was in college, Johnny Perry I think, and he was crushing the qualifiers and then when the episode ended it showed a pic of him and and RIP. Dude was 27 if I remember correctly.
He was juiced to his gills. No cycling, or blood work. Just huge doses of Test, Deca and Anadrol from memory. Ate anything and everything.
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I heard of a strongman named Jesse Marunde, who passed away at 27. But, that's the only one of which I know who died that young. He placed 2nd to Mariusz Pudzianowski in 2005.
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Genetically pre-determined to die young from too much of certain things.
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There was a huge American dude when I was in college, Johnny Perry I think, and he was crushing the qualifiers and then when the episode ended it showed a pic of him and and RIP. Dude was 27 if I remember correctly.
GHB and Coke helped end him :(.
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Kazmaier was one of the reasons America had a drought of Strongman wins during the mid 80's, 90's. The other was Franco Columbu winning that lawsuit from the fridge accident. After he won, they decided to concentrate on the European markets, and having the shows in areas that were less sue happy.
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From Jesse Marunde’s wiki page:
“On July 25, 2007 Marunde died following a workout in Sequim, Washington.[5] The cause of his death was a genetic heart defect, hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, a leading cause of sudden cardiac death in young athletes.”
::)
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"Genetics killed him."
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/3988693e4ef16ba22d6173e1341b1386/tenor.gif?itemid=8127721)
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Pfister won it during the years when the strongest men went over to the IFSA world championships 2005-2008.
A bunch of weaklings competed at WSM during these years. :P
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Pfister won it during the years when the strongest men went over to the IFSA world championships 2005-2008.
A bunch of weaklings competed at WSM during these years. :P
What's Pudzianowski, chopped liver? I thought he was an all-time great among professional strongman. Pfister defeated Pudzianowski (the three-time and defending WSM champion) straight up for the title.
Which contest does someone have to win to be considered World's Strongest Man? Weightlifters gave that tag to Mark Henry, based on his totals in powerlifting and weightlifting contests.
Then, he won the first Arnold Schwarzenegger Strongman contest in 2002, defeating some previous WSM contest winners. So, of course, WWF/WWE played up Henry as the "World's Strongest Man" even more to push him.
But, FLEX/Muscle & Fitness magazine ranked him 2nd strongest of all time, behind Zydrunas Savickas.
http://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/10-strongest-men-in-the-world/2-mark-henry-weightlifter-powerlifter-strongman-wrestler/
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Gotta admit that Phil Pfister would make a wicked p0rno monicker...
As for the Pudz, here's a couple of random reposts of him on and off the gear that serve absolutely no purpose
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Pfisters win was probably the most exciting WSM. Huge upset, but it was well earned win.
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From what I remember, Phil Pfister also claimed to be natty
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From what I remember, Phil Pfister also claimed to be natty
He did and also claimed to be about 40% bodyfat less than he actually was
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He did and also claimed to be about 40% bodyfat less than he actually was
Lmfao. Hey even Mike O'Hearn claims to be natty
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Dude is HUGE.
(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/timeswv.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/4/cd/4cd8a2e3-11c5-563f-8e2f-66ce1bf64a03/53d582ef6fa09.image.jpg)
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What's Pudzianowski, chopped liver? I thought he was an all-time great among professional strongman. Pfister defeated Pudzianowski (the three-time and defending WSM champion) straight up for the title.
Which contest does someone have to win to be considered World's Strongest Man? Weightlifters gave that tag to Mark Henry, based on his totals in powerlifting and weightlifting contests.
Then, he won the first Arnold Schwarzenegger Strongman contest in 2002, defeating some previous WSM contest winners. So, of course, WWF/WWE played up Henry as the "World's Strongest Man" even more to push him.
But, FLEX/Muscle & Fitness magazine ranked him 2nd strongest of all time, behind Zydrunas Savickas.
http://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/10-strongest-men-in-the-world/2-mark-henry-weightlifter-powerlifter-strongman-wrestler/
The top 3 at IFSA world championships 2006 were Zydrunas Savickas, Mikhail Koklyaev and Vasyl Virastyuk. They would have wiped the floor with Phil if they had competed in WSM 2006.
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Gotta admit that Phil Pfister would make a wicked p0rno monicker...
As for the Pudz, here's a couple of random reposts of him on and off the gear that serve absolutely no purpose
You photoshopped his headsize and some other things
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The top 3 at IFSA world championships 2006 were Zydrunas Savickas, Mikhail Koklyaev and Vasyl Virastyuk. They would have wiped the floor with Phil if they had competed in WSM 2006.
Again, I ask. Which contest does someone have to win to be considered World's Strongest Man? And does Pfister or Pudzianowski hold any wins over those men you mentioned earlier?
When Kazmaier won it, he was considered the World's Strongest Man hands down (was he not?). He was also deemed the last American to hold that honor, until Pfister's victory in 2006.
My memory may be a bit vague; but I don't recall anyone disputing the honors bestowed on Pfister. Perhaps you could clarify.
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Again, I ask. Which contest does someone have to win to be considered World's Strongest Man?
When Kazmaier won it, he was considered the World's Strongest Man hands down (was he not?). He was also deemed the last American to hold that honor, until Pfister's victory in 2006.
My memory may be a bit vague; but I don't recall anyone disputing the honors bestowed on Pfister. Perhaps you could clarify.
There was a spilt in WSM in 2006 which lasted a couple of years. 3 out of the 4 worlds best went to the other league. Pudz stayed in the WSM.
Had all 4 plus Pfister competed in the same tournament it would be a 5 horse race rather than a 2 horse race like it was that year.
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You photoshopped his headsize and some other things
:D
(http://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi0.wp.com%2Fjustmaths.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F01%2Fno-Shit-sherlock.png&f=1&nofb=1)
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There was a spilt in WSM in 2006 which lasted a couple of years. 3 out of the 4 worlds best went to the other league. Pudz stayed in the WSM.
Had all 4 plus Pfister competed in the same tournament it would be a 5 horse race rather than a 2 horse race like it was that year.
That would mean that Pfister's win over Pudzianowski was a significant feat. Pudz was a three-time WSM champion (2002, 2003, and 2005). I assume, based on what you just stated, those wins came against those men at some point. Would that also mean that WSM is the more prestigious of the two championships?
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That would mean that Pfister's win over Pudzianowski was a significant feat. Pudz was a three-time WSM champion (2002, 2003, and 2005). I assume, based on what you just stated, those wins came against those men at some point. Would that also mean that WSM is the more prestigious of the two championships?
My bad. The split happened in 2005.
2 of the other 3 beat Pudz in 2004. When they returned in 2009, 1 of them beat Pudz.
In 2006 Žydrūnas Savickas was probably the best strongman competitor in the World. Pudz would have be second on my list. Doubt Pfister would have beaten Savickas had he been at the WSM that year.
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My bad. The split happened in 2005.
2 of the other 3 beat Pudz in 2004. When they returned in 2009, 1 of them beat Pudz.
In 2006 Žydrūnas Savickas was probably the best strongman competitor in the World. Pudz would have be second on my list. Doubt Pfister would have beaten Savickas had he been at the WSM that year.
Did they face Pudz in '02 or '03?
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Did they face Pudz in '02 or '03?
Yes.
Pudz set the standards for strongman those years. He was ahead of the field because his tank didn't empty as quick. Basically he just about held his own strength wise, but was winning because he was fitter. By 2004 the strongest guys upped their fitness and eventually the strongest of the lot (Savickas) started to dominate the sport.
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Yes.
Pudz set the standards for strongman those years. He was ahead of the field because his tank didn't empty as quick. Basically he just about held his own strength wise, but was winning because he was fitter. By 2004 the strongest guys upped their fitness and eventually the strongest of the lot (Savickas) started to dominate the sport.
As I thought. Since Pudzianowski beat Savickas, Virastyuk, and Koklyaev, Pfister has more legitimacy of being deemed the World's Strongest Man by beating Pudz.
It sounds, on the surface at least, that the WSM contest (whether sponsored by MET-Rx or not) has more prestige than the IFSA World Championships or the Arnold Strongman show.
If that's incorrect, please clarify.
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As I thought. Since Pudzianowski beat Savickas, Virastyuk, and Koklyaev, Pfister has more legitimacy of being deemed the World's Strongest Man by beating Pudz.
It sounds, on the surface at least, that the WSM contest (whether sponsored by MET-Rx or not) has more prestige than the IFSA World Championships or the Arnold Strongman show.
If that's incorrect, please clarify.
Feel Fist Her? 👊 ✊
PS - From Goo To You By Way Of The Zoo!
PPS - What Christian denomination do you follow, MCWAY? PM me if you don't want to answer here, or feel free not to answer. I myself think the too theory is limited.
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The fact is, Dougie Edmunds fell out with the WSM TV show guys and decided to put on his IFSA world championships from 2005 to 2007. IFSA had been putting on the superseries all over the world for years and run the WSM with TWI for years. The IFSA world championships were much heavier events while WSM became more like heavy crossfit for the 2005-2007 years. There is not a single static event in 2006. Mark Felix won the deadlift with 16 reps!
It was all fingles fingers and light car walk and other aerobic stuff. In 2006 Marius would have won if he hadn't missed the hole on top of the last stones lift platform and Phil managed to place his before Marius could retrieve his. Marius was so pissed off he just left the 5th stone and ended up with just 4.
Neither Phil or Marius would have stood a chance against the top guys at IFSA 2005-2007. Indeed Phil actually competed in the 2005 IFSA and placed 6th.
Shame Marius never competed.
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As I thought. Since Pudzianowski beat Savickas, Virastyuk, and Koklyaev, Pfister has more legitimacy of being deemed the World's Strongest Man by beating Pudz.
It sounds, on the surface at least, that the WSM contest (whether sponsored by MET-Rx or not) has more prestige than the IFSA World Championships or the Arnold Strongman show.
If that's incorrect, please clarify.
Did Phil deserve his 2006 win? YES
Was Phil the best Strong man competitor on the planet in 2006? Only Phils boyfriend believes that answer to be YES.
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The fact is, Dougie Edmunds fell out with the WSM TV show guys and decided to put on his IFSA world championships from 2005 to 2007. IFSA had been putting on the superseries all over the world for years and run the WSM with TWI for years. The IFSA world championships were much heavier events while WSM became more like heavy crossfit for the 2005-2007 years. There is not a single static event in 2006. Mark Felix won the deadlift with 16 reps!
It was all fingles fingers and light car walk and other aerobic stuff. In 2006 Marius would have won if he hadn't missed the hole on top of the last stones lift platform and Phil managed to place his before Marius could retrieve his. Marius was so pissed off he just left the 5th stone and ended up with just 4.
Neither Phil or Marius would have stood a chance against the top guys at IFSA 2005-2007. Indeed Phil actually competed in the 2005 IFSA and placed 6th.
Shame Marius never competed.
If Pfister competed at the IFSA events, why didn't the other guys compete at the WSM show?
Flexacon indicated that Pudzianowski beat Savickas, Virastyuk, and Koklyaev during his 2002 and 2003 WSM wins. It sounds to me as if WSM is the more established and prestigious of the shows, based on seniority.
Per the video, Pudzianowski got to his 5th stone first. But, he had to squat down a second time to hold it, giving Pfister the split second he needed to catch him. Pfister got his stone up first and steadied it in the hole. Pudzianowski hoisted his stone up but it rolled out of the hole. This was a HUGE upset, considering the Atlas Stones event is said to be Pudz's specialty.
Ironically, Pudzianowski got another WSM title in similar fashion in 2008. Derek Poundstone was ahead of him and was about to place the last Atlas stone up for the win, when it slipped out his hands. That delay allowed Pudz to catch up, placed his final stone, and win the event and the title.
Edit - That would make Pudz a 5-time WSM winner.
Did Phil deserve his 2006 win? YES
Was Phil the best Strong man competitor on the planet in 2006? Only Phils boyfriend believes that answer to be YES.
Again, it begs the question: Which event is THE premiere one to determine the World's Strongest Man?
IFSA World Championship? MET-Rx World's Strongest Man? Arnold Classic Strongman Show? Or another competition?
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Some great commentary/information in this thread. Thank you.
I briefly hung with Pfister one year at the Arnold.
Big dude. But that’s pointless to mention: They’re all big dudes.
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As I thought. Since Pudzianowski beat Savickas, Virastyuk, and Koklyaev, Pfister has more legitimacy of being deemed the World's Strongest Man by beating Pudz.
It sounds, on the surface at least, that the WSM contest (whether sponsored by MET-Rx or not) has more prestige than the IFSA World Championships or the Arnold Strongman show.
If that's incorrect, please clarify.
Pudz never came close to Big Z at the Arnold, where the crazy-heavy stuff was lifted.
Came in 4th, 5th, 6th during his time against him at Arnolds when Z got 3 of his 1st places...
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Pudz never came close to Big Z at the Arnold, where the crazy-heavy stuff was lifted.
Came in 4th, 5th, 6th during his time against him at Arnolds when Z got 3 of his 1st places...
Z has got to be in the conversation about who IS the all-time strongest.
He was otherworldly. Still is, even way past his biggest/best.
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Pudz never came close to Big Z at the Arnold, where the crazy-heavy stuff was lifted.
Came in 4th, 5th, 6th during his time against him at Arnolds when Z got 3 of his 1st places...
But, Pudz did beat Big Z to claim at least two WSM titles.
And we're right back to square one. Which strongman title is THE title, the winner of which truly is the World's Strongest Man (at least for that year)?
Pudzianowski hasn't won an Arnold show, yet he has 5 WSM titles. But, he isn't on that top 10 all-time list I posted earlier.
Mark Henry is second all-time to Sackivas. He won the Arnold show once (the very first one). He has no WSM titles or IFSA world championships to my knowledge.
Virastyuk won WSM in 2004 and is on that all time list (5th, I think).
Z has got to be in the conversation about who IS the all-time strongest.
He was otherworldly. Still is, even way past his biggest/best.
Indeed, he is (4 WSM titles). See the like I posted earlier. He's #1, followed by Mark Henry, Bill Kazmaier, and Paul Anderson; Vasil Virastyuk is fifth.
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Yes.
Pudz set the standards for strongman those years. He was ahead of the field because his tank didn't empty as quick. Basically he just about held his own strength wise, but was winning because he was fitter. By 2004 the strongest guys upped their fitness and eventually the strongest of the lot (Savickas) started to dominate the sport.
So Marius was the best and then the other competitors got better?
* I understand what you’re saying its just funny reading it from someone who wasn’t competing in the contest.
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So Marius was the best and then the other competitors got better?
* I understand what you’re saying its just funny reading it from someone who wasn’t competing in the contest.
You're confusing strongman with bodybuilding. Strongman isn't a subjective sport. You can apply metrics to performance.
It doesn't take a genius to work out if a decathlete is comparatively better or worse by looking at their PBs and how close they get to to them in competition. The same can be applied to strongman as they regularly do the same or similar events and their PBs/rankings in those events are usually well known.
For example in 2006 Pfister didn't just beat some of his PBs. He smashed them. Events he was expected to finish 6th or 7th he ended up winning or 2nd. He was never as good before or after.
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You're confusing strongman with bodybuilding. Strongman isn't a subjective sport. You can apply metrics to performance.
It doesn't take a genius to work out if a decathlete is comparatively better or worse by looking at their PBs and how close they get to to them in competition. The same can be applied to strongman as they regularly do the same or similar events and their PBs/rankings in those events are usually well known.
For example in 2006 Pfister didn't just beat some of his PBs. He smashed them. Events he was expected to finish 6th or 7th he ended up winning or 2nd. He was never as good before or after.
And, if the MET-Rx WSM show is the title to have, Pfister can truly say that (for one year, at least) he was the World's Strongest Man.
The question remains, is that championship THE most coveted of the bunch?
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You're confusing strongman with bodybuilding. Strongman isn't a subjective sport. You can apply metrics to performance.
It doesn't take a genius to work out if a decathlete is comparatively better or worse by looking at their PBs and how close they get to to them in competition. The same can be applied to strongman as they regularly do the same or similar events and their PBs/rankings in those events are usually well known.
For example in 2006 Pfister didn't just beat some of his PBs. He smashed them. Events he was expected to finish 6th or 7th he ended up winning or 2nd. He was never as good before or after.
I’m not confusing the two at all.
I’ve lost to people that I was significantly stronger than, the other competitor being better conditioned is part of the game. The best team doesn’t always win, it’s the one The is one who plays the best the day of the contest who prevails, the same holds true here.
If strongman is strictly who is the strongest we should only have powerlifting events. You know that a lot goes into a PB and a gym lift is not the same as a contest lift.
Thor did his record deadlift inside a gym focusing only on the one lift. It would be ridiculous to think he could pull that same lift in a strongman event UNLESS it was the first event but then every other lift would suffer.
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I’m not confusing the two at all.
I’ve lost to people that I was significantly stronger than, the other competitor being better conditioned is part of the game. The best team doesn’t always win, it’s the one the plays the best the day of the contest who prevails, the same holds true here.
If strongman is strictly who is the strongest we should only have powerlifting events. You know that a lot goes into a PB and a gym lift is not the same as a contest lift.
Thor did his record deadlift inside a gym focusing only on the one lift. It would be ridiculous to think he could pull that same lift in a strongman event UNLESS it was the first event but then every other lift would suffer.
I didn't mention gym lifts, I mentioned events. Also your just parroting my earlier point that the strongest guys don't always win, especially the case in that era when Pudz won. Similarly I pointed out Pfister deserved his win as he was the best that day.
"If strongman is strictly who is the strongest we should only have powerlifting events."
You're trying to create a fictitious argument for a point I never made just to show your strongman "credentials".
Keeping it moving buddy
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But, Pudz did beat Big Z to claim at least two WSM titles.
And we're right back to square one. Which strongman title is THE title, the winner of which truly is the World's Strongest Man (at least for that year)?
Pudzianowski hasn't won an Arnold show, yet he has 5 WSM titles. But, he isn't on that top 10 all-time list I posted earlier.
Mark Henry is second all-time to Sackivas. He won the Arnold show once (the very first one). He has no WSM titles or IFSA world championships to my knowledge.
Virastyuk won WSM in 2004 and is on that all time list (5th, I think).
Indeed, he is (4 WSM titles). See the like I posted earlier. He's #1, followed by Mark Henry, Bill Kazmaier, and Paul Anderson; Vasil Virastyuk is fifth.
Myself and Henry were weekend guests at the home of a mutual friend.
We got on well. This was the mid-nineties. Mark was like a mountain. I fondly recall him always flipping through the sleeve pages of his brought-with-him CD collection. His tastes were certainly not mine, but the audiophile in me appreciated his love of music.
One night our host had a buffet delivered in (he was, RIP, a millionaire). Mark consumed half of what was on the gigantic table.
Good times.
P.S. At the time, weightlifting and the WWE was most prominent in Henry’s life.
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P.S. We also went shooting at a range. It was awesome to watch Mark blasting semi-automatic rifles and high-powered handguns.
What a ball.
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I didn't mention gym lifts, I mentioned events. Also your just parroting my earlier point that the strongest guys don't always win, especially the case in that era when Pudz won. Similarly I pointed out Pfister deserved his win as he was the best that day.
"If strongman is strictly who is the strongest we should only have powerlifting events."
You're trying to create a fictitious argument for a point I never made just to show your strongman "credentials".
Keeping it moving buddy
This wasn't about me.
I commented on your post and said it was an interesting take from a non competitor in the event. That Pudz was the best because of his fitness level.
Yes.
Pudz set the standards for strongman those years. He was ahead of the field because his tank didn't empty as quick. Basically he just about held his own strength wise, but was winning because he was fitter. By 2004 the strongest guys upped their fitness and eventually the strongest of the lot (Savickas) started to dominate the sport.
You then attempted to insult my understanding of the events saying that I couldn't comprehend the difference between a subjective and objective contest, thus changing the conversation.
You're confusing strongman with bodybuilding. Strongman isn't a subjective sport. You can apply metrics to performance.
It doesn't take a genius to work out if a decathlete is comparatively better or worse by looking at their PBs and how close they get to to them in competition. The same can be applied to strongman as they regularly do the same or similar events and their PBs/rankings in those events are usually well known.
For example in 2006 Pfister didn't just beat some of his PBs. He smashed them. Events he was expected to finish 6th or 7th he ended up winning or 2nd. He was never as good before or after.
I parroted your point because it was the point, who strongest only counts one the day of the competition.
I did bring up gym lifts because Thor had his PB in deadlift televised. Thor is a strongman competitor. Despite his PB in the deadlift being outside of the events its still recognized.
You know what you're doing here.
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Myself and Henry were weekend guests at the home of a mutual friend.
We got on well. This was the mid-nineties. Mark was like a mountain. I fondly recall him always flipping through the sleeve pages of his brought-with-him CD collection. His tastes were certainly not mine, but the audiophile in me appreciated his love of music.
One night our host had a buffet delivered in (he was, RIP, a millionaire). Mark consumed half of what was on the gigantic table.
Good times.
P.S. At the time, weightlifting and the WWE was most prominent in Henry’s life.
I believe that. I watched a documentary about Yokozuna and Henry talked about how he was Yoko's chicken gopher. When Yoko's weight got out of control, Henry said how could he tell Yoko he didn't need a bucket of chicken when Henry was downing half a bucket himself.
I always wondered how Henry would fare at a MET-Rx WSM competition.
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Touchy subject. ;D
I think Phil's win was a fluke and it certainly was.
I don't think winning the WSM title makes you the strongest man on the planet, but you do deserve the title of "World's Strongest Man". Which is just a title.
Just because Marius beat other competitors/winners in previous years doesn't mean a whole lot.
Strongman is very DYNAMIC, it's not like a BBing pageant.
Every competition is different, all lifters progress at different rates. Some guys miss their peak.
Also, most if not all of these guys compete with injuries, which can make a difference between 1st and 3rd easily, just by losing a single event. If you watch Strongman then you have seen some of the top 3 guys finish very low one year, just to come back and dominate the next year.
If all the competitors were at the 2006 WSM, there is no doubt in my mind Phil would have lost. But it's obviously all speculation.
He deserves the title of WSM for 2006.
Big Z is the strongest man in history. He is the only person with a resume to back it up.
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Touchy subject. ;D
I think Phil's win was a fluke and it certainly was.
I don't think winning the WSM title makes you the strongest man on the planet, but you do deserve the title of "World's Strongest Man". Which is just a title.
Just because Marius beat other competitors/winners in previous years doesn't mean a whole lot.
Strongman is very DYNAMIC, it's not like a BBing pageant.
Every competition is different, all lifters progress at different rates. Some guys miss their peak.
Also, most if not all of these guys compete with injuries, which can make a difference between 1st and 3rd easily, just by losing a single event. If you watch Strongman then you have seen some of the top 3 guys finish very low one year, just to come back and dominate the next year.
If all the competitors were at the 2006 WSM, there is no doubt in my mind Phil would have lost. But it's obviously all speculation.
He deserves the title of WSM for 2006.
Big Z is the strongest man in history. He is the only person with a resume to back it up.
Nobody is debating Savickas' status on that matter. I simply asked which title/championship is THE ONE to have to be legitimately called the World's Strongest Man.
Of course, I found this video while looking at something else totally unrelated (MET-Rx commercials with amateur/non-IFBB pros as endorsers). And it reminded me about what a big deal some folks made of Pfister's win, snapping a 24-year drought of American competitors not winning the WSM title.
I wouldn't call it a fluke but an upset. He beat Pudzianowski by the skin of his teeth in 2006.
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Nobody is debating Savickas' status on that matter. I simply asked which title/championship is THE ONE to have to be legitimately called the World's Strongest Man.
Of course, I found this video while looking at something else totally unrelated (MET-Rx commercials with amateur/non-IFBB pros as endorsers). And it reminded me about what a big deal some folks made of Pfister's win, snapping a 24-year drought of American competitors not winning the WSM title.
I wouldn't call it a fluke but an upset. He beat Pudzianowski by the skin of his teeth in 2006.
Winning the WSM event makes you the WSM. He was the Strongest Man in the World at that event.
I don't think you have a single "legitimate" WSM for the entire year. To do so you would have to win all contests IMO.
For years the WSM competition was the most coveted event to win. Now there are different events that many people claim are more difficult.
Phil's win was huge, but it was a single win. Then you have Brian Shaw. ;D
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I did bring up gym lifts because Thor had his PB in deadlift televised. Thor is a strongman competitor. Despite his PB in the deadlift being outside of the events its still recognized.
Good job proving my point anyway. Thor PBed and set a world record in the gym, thor done well in wsm events which involved deadlifting.
You then attempted to insult my understanding of the events saying that I couldn't comprehend the difference between a subjective and objective contest, thus changing the conversation.
There was no further conversation needed on the subject. There is a decade plus of event and competition history for Pudz, big Z and the others to back up what I said. You think that only those competing in one contest, the 2004 wsm know the true score and could somehow magically predict future achievements.
Like I said come up with a better argument or keep it moving.
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Good job proving my point anyway. Thor PBed and set a world record in the gym, thor done well in wsm events which involved deadlifting.
There was no further conversation needed on the subject. There is a decade plus of event and competition history for Pudz, big Z and the others to back up what I said. You think that only those competing in one contest, the 2004 wsm know the true score and could somehow magically predict future achievements.
Like I said come up with a better argument or keep it moving.
I never had an argument, I made a comment about your comment. I said you sounded like a disgruntled competitor.
Your perspective of strongman is like that as a fan cheering on his favorite competitor and why the others aren’t better.
You then went on a tangent about knowing more than me.
Whoever has the best PB is the strongest, contests are filler.
You’re the best Flex, whatever the subject you’re the expert. I’ll remember this moving forward.
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Winning the WSM event makes you the WSM. He was the Strongest Man in the World at that event.
I don't think you have a single "legitimate" WSM for the entire year. To do so you would have to win all contests IMO.
For years the WSM competition was the most coveted event to win. Now there are different events that many people claim are more difficult.
Phil's win was huge, but it was a single win. Then you have Brian Shaw. ;D
Shaw has won WSM four times, I believe. He rounds out the top 10 all-time strongest men list I posted earlier. We have more American competitors winning now. I think the current champion is an American, winning it in 2019. I don't think there was a 2020 WSM due to coronavirus.
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I never had an argument, I made a comment about your comment. I said you sounded like a disgruntled competitor.
Your perspective of strongman is like that as a fan cheering on his favorite competitor and why the others aren’t better.
You then went on a tangent about knowing more than me.
Whoever has the best PB is the strongest, contests are filler.
You’re the best Flex, whatever the subject you’re the expert. I’ll remember this moving forward.
Like a fan? No, it's pretty boring. I have never posted on strongman thread or anything to do with wsm under this account or my previous account. That's close to 15 years of post history as I don't have much interest in it.
I did however work as a trader for a sportsbook and was part of the team that priced up WSM through that period. We looked at PBs, recent event history and also got information from people within the sport to price up a book. We'd then take bets and adjust the book as required. We were never that far off with our odds and placings. Only shock result in the years I did it was Pfisters win.
Pudz was an easy favourite in 2003, but 3rd in our book by 2004. Information we had been provided was that a lot of the guys had adjusted their training, with move focus on strength endurance. Some of the guys had shed some of their extra bulk too. Early results backed that up as those guys were doing better than expected in strength endurance events and slightly worse than expected in static ones.
On this particular era of strongman I'm pretty sure I know more than you.
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But, Pudz did beat Big Z to claim at least two WSM titles.
And we're right back to square one. Which strongman title is THE title, the winner of which truly is the World's Strongest Man (at least for that year)?
The WSM has a lot of moving events, where Pudz did shine. If youre asking who's stronger, just look at the Arnold.
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Both Phil and Kaz live/spend lots of time on the Big Island, Hawaii.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/hGwXN3V0/074-CA602-D5-E8-4-D56-AF15-586435-C81-CD8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/B8TZKpY8) (https://bettafishcaretaker.com/betta-fish-names-top-100-most-popular)
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Shaw has won WSM four times, I believe. He rounds out the top 10 all-time strongest men list I posted earlier. We have more American competitors winning now. I think the current champion is an American, winning it in 2019. I don't think there was a 2020 WSM due to coronavirus.
There was a WSM in 2020, held in Florida at the IMG Campus in November after being postponed from May. Oleksii Novikov of Ukraine won it with Tom Stoltman of Scotland in second place . Brian Shaw placed 5th. The 2021 contest starts June 15th in Sacramento California.
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Like a fan? No, it's pretty boring. I have never posted on strongman thread or anything to do with wsm under this account or my previous account. That's close to 15 years of post history as I don't have much interest in it.
I did however work as a trader for a sportsbook and was part of the team that priced up WSM through that period. We looked at PBs, recent event history and also got information from people within the sport to price up a book. We'd then take bets and adjust the book as required. We were never that far off with our odds and placings. Only shock result in the years I did it was Pfisters win.
Pudz was an easy favourite in 2003, but 3rd in our book by 2004. Information we had been provided was that a lot of the guys had adjusted their training, with move focus on strength endurance. Some of the guys had shed some of their extra bulk too. Early results backed that up as those guys were doing better than expected in strength endurance events and slightly worse than expected in static ones.
On this particular era of strongman I'm pretty sure I know more than you.
Cool. I never said or implied I knew more than you. I said your comment about Marius winning because he was better conditioned was funny. It reminded of something a competitor who lost would say. Or a comment a Patriots fan who team who lost in the SuperBowl, to the Giants or Eagles, would make; my team was better but the other team had the ball at the end of the game.
For some reason that comment did not sit well with you. Then you decided to subtlety insult me and say I didn’t understand the difference between bodybuilding and a sport based competition with measurable results. I said I did understand, explaining why and then you attempted to make it see like I was bragging about something I did, which was no different than what you did explaining why you know more about this era of strongman....
I’m sorry you didn’t understand my point or choose to ignore.
You’re a good poster, who seems knowledgeable on many topics.
I’m sorry my comment bothered you.
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Nice to see this conversation got so many in-depth and knowledgeable replies!
I heard that Mariusz Pudzianowski was sponsored by Met-RX during his championship reign, and so was the WSM promotion itself...so they filled it with events that favoured medium height men. Can anyone speak on that?
Regarding WSM being the real test of the strongest person - the guys today are very, very strong, even if they are not as strong as powerlifters are at the three big static lifts that make up powerlifting [bench press, squat, and deadlift]. But they are exceedingly strong men. If we want to consider very heavy lifts with some speed and endurance, the Arnold Pro Strongman is the heaviest strength contest that involves movement. WSM requires a bit more stamina, and more focus on movement than the Arnold Pro Strongman does - and I would think any UFC fighter who fights in the middleweight division or heavier.
But if we are strictly talking about the pure strongest...presumably that would be a top powerlifter somewhere. And this is without talking about Olympic lifting.
Add to this, Dustin Poirier could probably take any of the top strength athletes/champions in a fight, unless they have some combat sports background...right? If not Poirier, then Kamaru Usman for sure.
But if we're talking about physical strength, as we know it traditionally, what are we using to define strength?
I think all of these strength sports measure strength...but that WSM is a bit more on the stamina side of things when we go from static strength to stamina and endurance [while also being strong].
As for Mariusz Pudzianowski...didn't he win WSM in 2005, beating Jesse Mature, only to place 6th in 2006 at the Arnold Pro Strongman, in the same year that Zydrunas Savickas won it?
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Nice to see this conversation got so many in-depth and knowledgeable replies!
I heard that Mariusz Pudzianowski was sponsored by Met-RX during his championship reign, and so was the WSM promotion itself...so they filled it with events that favoured medium height men. Can anyone speak on that?
Regarding WSM being the real test of the strongest person - the guys today are very, very strong, even if they are not as strong as powerlifters are at the three big static lifts that make up powerlifting [bench press, squat, and deadlift]. But they are exceedingly strong men. If we want to consider very heavy lifts with some speed and endurance, the Arnold Pro Strongman is the heaviest strength contest that involves movement. WSM requires a bit more stamina, and more focus on movement.
But if we are strictly talking about the pure strongest...presumably that would be a top powerlifter somewhere. And this is without talking about Olympic lifting.
Add to this, Dustin Poirier could probably take any of the top strength athletes/champions in a fight, unless they have some combat sports background...right? If not Poirier, then Kamaru Usman for sure.
But if we're talking strength, as we know it traditionally, what are we using to define strength?
I think all of these strength sports measure strength...but that WSM is a bit more on the stamina side of things when we go from static strength to stamina and endurance [while also being strong].
As for Mariusz Pudzianowski...didn't he win WSM in 2005, beating Jesse Mature, only to place 6th in 2006 at the Arnold Pro Strongman, in the same year that Zydrunas Savickas won it?
I've heard they changed some events to suit Marius, not sure how true that is. I read it somewhere many years ago.
Marius was not the strongest static lifter on the planet, he had speed, agility and strength. He was more well rounded.
A lot of the Strongman competitors these days are just as strong as many top level power lifters, if not stronger. They may not hold the world record, but they aren't too far behind.
The guys competing today are a different breed from the 90's. They all have speed and agility.
I follow a lot of Strongman guys on youtube because i like to watch how they train. A lot of them are working more on speed and agility rather than raw strength.
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Pudz is a great athlete, but he was also in the right place at the right time. During the late 90's there was a lot of bitching about the taller and heavier guys dominating the events, and all the very good, but smaller guys being shut out. Also there was pressure from the TV side to make the shows more fun and fast paced. This was the extreme/x-games era of sports, and there was pressure to liven up everything so it would be more sellable to ESPN, etc.....
Also remember the IFSA split happened and they made a push to overtake the WSM. That drew away a lot of talent for a few years also -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Federation_of_Strength_Athletes .
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because he was better conditioned
I gave a slightly more nuanced reply than that and then surmised it as I explaining why Pudz was beating guys at the WSM who were technically stronger. You seem to have taken something different out of what I said
I heard that Mariusz Pudzianowski was sponsored by Met-RX during his championship reign, and so was the WSM promotion itself...so they filled it with events that favoured medium height men. Can anyone speak on that?
My understanding was that they wanted to move away from too many static strength/holding and repping events as it was deemed boring for the TV audience. They wanted more "races".
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There was a WSM in 2020, held in Florida at the IMG Campus in November after being postponed from May. Oleksii Novikov of Ukraine won it with Tom Stoltman of Scotland in second place . Brian Shaw placed 5th. The 2021 contest starts June 15th in Sacramento California.
The Sunshine State comes through again. The Olympia was also moved to Orlando from Vegas. WrestleMania was supposed to be in SoFI stadium in L.A. But, it was in FL again, this time where it was supposed to be last year (Raymond James Stadium).
And, if California doesn't get its act together, the WSM will be in Florida again.
BTW, what happened to the guy who won WSM in 2019?
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BTW, what happened to the guy who won WSM in 2019?
Martins Licis
He's been injury prone all of his career.
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I gave a slightly more nuanced reply than that and then surmised it as I explaining why Pudz was beating guys at the WSM who were technically stronger. You seem to have taken something different out of what I said
Yes slightly more nuanced.
He was able to hold his own strength wise (meaning he was on a level playing field as the other competitors) but won because he was fitter and his tank didnt empty as quick.
So he was a better conditioned athlete.
I stand by my comment.
He won but you dont think he was the strongest man.
Yes.
Pudz set the standards for strongman those years. He was ahead of the field because his tank didn't empty as quick. Basically he just about held his own strength wise, but was winning because he was fitter. By 2004 the strongest guys upped their fitness and eventually the strongest of the lot (Savickas) started to dominate the sport.
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Martins Licis is getting in good with Hollywood, even if he slows down, he'll be alright. A lot of regular folks like his personality and the way he presents himself. That's the move now, the top guys networking, and trying to get that tv appearance and youtube money -
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The Sunshine State comes through again. The Olympia was also moved to Orlando from Vegas. WrestleMania was supposed to be in SoFI stadium in L.A. But, it was in FL again, this time where it was supposed to be last year (Raymond James Stadium).
And, if California doesn't get its act together, the WSM will be in Florida again.
It's defiantly going ahead in California this year. Plans were finalised last week and there's going to be an interesting new event which I have to keep confidential for now as the competitors don't know about it. ;)
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Yes slightly more nuanced.
He was able to hold his own strength wise (meaning he was on a level playing field as the other competitors) but won because he was fitter and his tank didnt empty as quick.
So he was a better conditioned athlete.
I stand by my comment.
He won but you dont think he was the strongest man.
I see the WSM as a competition with a title that just happens to WSM, and generally and maybe more so in that era was won by the best all round competitor (pure strengh and strength endurance). ASC was generally more of a pure strength test and won by the strongest guy.
Do you see it different? Do you think winning WSM makes them strongest person in the world?
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I've heard they changed some events to suit Marius, not sure how true that is. I read it somewhere many years ago.
Marius was not the strongest static lifter on the planet, he had speed, agility and strength. He was more well rounded.
Great post. I think just from watching the WSM contests from Mariusz' era, it looked like they did include events that favoured him [a medium height strength athlete with crazy stamina]. And one thing I learned from strongman contests in my region is that event organizers routinely rig the contests for themselves.
Shoot, once it was rigged in a way that benefitted me [specifically, for the contest organizer who was also competing, which benefited me], by including a 250-lb bench press for reps event [350-lb for reps for the heavyweights] in the contest. ;D
I saw it even happening at the provincial level when Ontario's Strongest Man was held here twice [in 2013 and 2014].
A lot of the Strongman competitors these days are just as strong as many top level power lifters, if not stronger. They may not hold the world record, but they aren't too far behind.
The guys competing today are a different breed from the 90's. They all have speed and agility.
I follow a lot of Strongman guys on youtube because i like to watch how they train. A lot of them are working more on speed and agility rather than raw strength.
Yep - exactly. That's been the biggest change since 2008 [which was the last contest won by Mariusz Pudzianowski, if I recall correctly].
Since then, you have had a group of guys who are both the top "strength mobility athletes" [strongmen], while also being among the very strongest men, period.
For example - how far off are Hapthor Bjornnson and Eddie Hall at powerlifting deadlift [chalk and belt only - no straps, no hitching, and no wonky bar] compared to the top deadlifters in the world, strictly taken from powerlifting contests?
What...maybe 50-lb?
I can't see it being far from 50-lb.
Top strongmen today would probably be a solid 100-lb or more away from the top powerlifters at bench press, but only because strongmen don't focus on bench press, and if they do, they do it with a wide grip.
Squat...the top strongmen could probably all squat around 800-lb [some, more...some, a bit less], because squat itself does matter for strongman contests, but usually, some variation of it [such as a car or truck squat, or another squat where bar or feet positioning is slightly different].
But as you said, the guys today are a different breed of guys - you have guys who are both around the strongest in the world for static/raw power, in addition to having mobility and endurance.
It makes me wonder what the big change has been? IMO...the guys went from routinely being big, heavy guys, but with guys under 300-lb being common, to now being the smallest guy competing if you are 285-lb [as is the case with World's Strongest LGBT Activist, Rob Kearney, who is 285-lb at 5'10", which does not make him just "small" by WSM standards, but THE SMALLEST - ditto for Hungarian strongman Dimitar Savatinov at 5'8.5" and 335-lb, who placed 7th at WSM in 2015; he wasn't light even by WSM standards, but he was the shortest in years].
So if the guys are now ROUTINELY 350-lb+...the question is: why?
Much more eating? Much more steroid and GH/peptide use?
Seems like it. How else can we have a situation where the top strongmen today are as strong as top powerlifters, unless they are eating and juicing like top bodybuilders had for decades?
Sadly, I think that means we are going to see more deaths, as we did in the case of Mike Jenkins in 2013, who had literally won the Arnold Pro Strongman just the year before. He had literally JUST turned 31 earlier that month, and was 6'6", routinely competing at around 390-lb.
Canada's JF Caron is now 9x Canada's Strongest Man [who would have been 10x, had it not been for Covid-19 bullshit cancelling Canada's Strongest Man in 2020], who placed 3rd in World's Strongest Man in 2020, and sits at 348-lb at 6'4" is NOT the biggest guy competing by any means, despite obviously being massive.
I do worry about these guys though...it just cannot be healthy to be this massive and and strong while on steroids and doing contest after contest [JF, below, won something like 37 contests in 2016] that require such epic strength and mobility, while using mass amounts of steroids and eating huge quantities of food. They are pushing their bodies to the absolute limit. I think strongman will soon start seeing early deaths closer to the level we see with bodybuilding. It makes me a bit sad, just knowing what these guys need to put themselves through to get to this level:
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I see the WSM as a competition with a title that just happens to WSM, and generally and maybe more so in that era was won by the best all round competitor (pure strengh and strength endurance). ASC was generally more of a pure strength test and won by the strongest guy.
Do you see it different? Do you think winning WSM makes them strongest person in the world?
I think you’re correct and I would agree with you.
But winning the WSM makes that person the strongest in the public’s eyes. The WSM has more name recognition than the ASC.
I have always thought WSM contests were “circus” events. I always thought guys like Juoko Ahola and
Mariusz Pudzianowski were to “small” to really be the world’s strongest man. Although I was convinced that Mariusz was the strongest man who competed in those events at the time.
I never thought a tall skinny basketball player like Brian Shaw would get big enough to be competitive and when he did I realized that NFL locker rooms are probably full of men that could also be world champions had they chosen to pursue that route.
That said Olympic lifters are probably the strongest men in strength sports.
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I think you’re correct and I would agree with you.
But winning the WSM makes that person the strongest in the public’s eyes. The WSM has more name recognition than the ASC.
I have always thought WSM contests were “circus” events. I always thought guys like Juoko Ahola and
Mariusz Pudzianowski were to “small” to really be the world’s strongest man. Although I was convinced that Mariusz was the strongest man who competed in those events at the time.
By "those events", do you mean strongman contests? Not to nitpick your GREAT POST [!!] or anything. I only ask because while Mariusz Pudzianowski was the strongest in the events in the WSM contests at the time, I don't know if he was the strongest man as defined by "strongman" standards ["pure strength and strength endurance" competitions, as Flexacon described it], if we were to compare him to some of his direct competition in WSM and other strongman contests of that era. For example, I was shocked to see that Mariusz placed 6th in the Arnold Pro Strongman in 2006, when Zydrunas Savickas won it that year, despite Mariusz being the reigning "World's Strongest Man" titleholder at the time.
And I'm assuming that's what you mean - that at that time [once Mariusz racked up a few W's], you thought that Mariusz was the world's strongest actual strongman at that time [in that era, 2002-2008], but in hindsight, we are both questioning that.
Again, not to nitpick - but then, here we are in a thread that is calling into question what it means to be "strong" or "the strongest", given there are multiple ways to judge strength. For example, while Zydrunas Savickas may still have the record for heaviest log press at like 503-lb, or whatever he finally reached before retiring, he would not beat that top Iranian heavyweight Olympic lifter at the Clean & Press...who [the Iranian] pressed something like 585-lb overhead in that event.
I'd be very curious what Zydrunas could Clean & Press - but it's safe to say that he could not break or tie the world record in any Olympic lift, nor could whoever is the current strongest Clean & Press world record holder have beaten Zydrunas' lifetime maximum log press, while that Olympic lifter was at his prime [or currently, if the Olympic lift record holder for Clean & Press is still competing].
There was a top Iranian Olympic lifter who I believe held the all-time record who was competing - but that may have been in 2016.
I never thought a tall skinny basketball player like Brian Shaw would get big enough to be competitive and when he did I realized that NFL locker rooms are probably full of men that could also be world champions had they chosen to pursue that route.
That said Olympic lifters are probably the strongest men in strength sports.
Just one small point regarding NFL players:
I think NFL players [linebackers - or maybe linemen specifically], are hugely strong [and obviously athletic, while on GH - and in some cases, have masses of dreadlocks which somehow don't impede their performance, LOL, and I've even heard that some of them are functional alcoholics in addition to making it rain fifty or even hundreds dollar bills at strip clubs].
But...just looking at the history of strongman contests...it looks like strongman champions and top three podium finishers. I think OD Wilson placed 2nd in 1991, but sadly died in 1992 [the years may be one earlier in both, but I think I got that right].
Then there is that massive Black guy who has something like an 1100-lb squat who competed in the past 3-4 years or thereabouts, who I could probably best in a contest to see who could retrieve a dog's squeeze toy from under the couch in the fastest time.
But USUALLY, we do not see Black winners or podium finishers in strongman contests.
There are some epic strong Black dudes - Mark Henry and Mark Felix come to mind - but they are more rare than we would think when looking at the average NFL roster. Intuitively, I feel exactly as you do...but I think we would have seen more Black top strength athletes if it was in the cards.
I remember reading a comment online stating that all the strongest Black guys go to the NFL...but I don't think that's a sufficient explanation...I think football is similar to strongman in terms of being strong while going down the athletic side of sport...but even more athletic than strongman, and so it's not a perfect apples to apples comparison.
Although it's not a completely imperfect comparison either [it's not apples and oranges...maybe more like apples and grapefruits, as Bob described one of the Arnold's where Kai Greene was competing, in his live commentary, LOL].
The NFL is probably the best example of pro athletes having potential in sheer or strict strength sports, when compared to the "Big" sports [football, basketball, hockey, and baseball...in whatever order], or among pro sports in general, aside from Olympic lifting [but including other Olympic sports, such as curling, which I would assume has very little crossover to athleticism in general, let alone to strength sports, or tennis, or any other].
I still just think that the Black athletic advantages, while pretty obvious in my mind, do not extend to strength sports in terms of the very best in the world. I think we would have seen more Black top WSM or powerlifting competitors if that was true.
On that note...here in Canada, French Canadians [the Quebecois] have won all the Canada's Strongest Man titles since 1997. Can you believe that? But even more surprising - I can't think of one top WSM level strongman who is French who has been "France French" ever...only the Quebecois.
So while racial differences intrigue me, there may even be some intra-racial, and even INTRA-ETHNIC GROUP, differences that are at play here.
I mean...it's not that "French people" are overrepresented in strongman...it's specifically the Quebecois.
I don't know if that's because the stronger and more robust French people settled in North America or if it's strictly a cultural heritage thing, where more Quebecois people compete in strongman due to its history, or as with most things - a bit of both, with the only question being to what extent or exact percentage do environment and genes drive these things.
I tend to think most things are strongly genetic, but the Quebec versus France strongman comparison is an interesting one.
I think the NFL players would be very, very strong - but I don't think they would be beating the likes of Brian Shaw or Hapthor Bjornnson.
PS - I hate Hollywood and the propaganda it produces [and I loved that the Oscars only had 9.85 million viewers, down from around ONE BILLION viewers in the mid-nineties], but I did think the movie "Concussion" was worth watching. I don't doubt that it was part of some other brainwashing agenda that went over my head, but I was happy to see Hollywood raise awareness about NFL's concussion problem, as pro athlete health concerns me, and no amount of money matters if you sustain a certain level of brain damage due to repeated head trauma.
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By "those events", do you mean strongman contests? Not to nitpick your GREAT POST [!!] or anything. I only ask because while Mariusz Pudzianowski was the strongest in the events in the WSM contests at the time, I don't know if he was the strongest man as defined by "strongman" standards ["pure strength and strength endurance" competitions, as Flexacon described it], if we were to compare him to some of his direct competition in WSM and other strongman contests of that era. For example, I was shocked to see that Mariusz placed 6th in the Arnold Pro Strongman in 2006, when Zydrunas Savickas won it that year, despite Mariusz being the reigning "World's Strongest Man" titleholder at the time.
And I'm assuming that's what you mean - that at that time [once Mariusz racked up a few W's], you thought that Mariusz was the world's strongest actual strongman at that time [in that era, 2002-2008], but in hindsight, we are both questioning that.
Again, not to nitpick - but then, here we are in a thread that is calling into question what it means to be "strong" or "the strongest", given there are multiple ways to judge strength. For example, while Zydrunas Savickas may still have the record for heaviest log press at like 503-lb, or whatever he finally reached before retiring, he would not beat that top Iranian heavyweight Olympic lifter at the Clean & Press...who [the Iranian] pressed something like 585-lb overhead in that event.
I'd be very curious what Zydrunas could Clean & Press - but it's safe to say that he could not break or tie the world record in any Olympic lift, nor could whoever is the current strongest Clean & Press world record holder have beaten Zydrunas' lifetime maximum log press, while that Olympic lifter was at his prime [or currently, if the Olympic lift record holder for Clean & Press is still competing].
There was a top Iranian Olympic lifter who I believe held the all-time record who was competing - but that may have been in 2016.
Just one small point regarding NFL players:
I think NFL players [linebackers - or maybe linemen specifically], are hugely strong [and obviously athletic, while on GH - and in some cases, have masses of dreadlocks which somehow don't impede their performance, LOL, and I've even heard that some of them are functional alcoholics in addition to making it rain fifty or even hundreds dollar bills at strip clubs].
But...just looking at the history of strongman contests...it looks like strongman champions and top three podium finishers. I think OD Wilson placed 2nd in 1991, but sadly died in 1992 [the years may be one earlier in both, but I think I got that right].
Then there is that massive Black guy who has something like an 1100-lb squat who competed in the past 3-4 years or thereabouts, who I could probably best in a contest to see who could retrieve a dog's squeeze toy from under the couch in the fastest time.
But USUALLY, we do not see Black winners or podium finishers in strongman contests.
There are some epic strong Black dudes - Mark Henry and Mark Felix come to mind - but they are more rare than we would think when looking at the average NFL roster. Intuitively, I feel exactly as you do...but I think we would have seen more Black top strength athletes if it was in the cards.
I remember reading a comment online stating that all the strongest Black guys go to the NFL...but I don't think that's a sufficient explanation...I think football is similar to strongman in terms of being strong while going down the athletic side of sport...but even more athletic than strongman, and so it's not a perfect apples to apples comparison.
Although it's not a completely imperfect comparison either [it's not apples and oranges...maybe more like apples and grapefruits, as Bob described one of the Arnold's where Kai Greene was competing, in his live commentary, LOL].
The NFL is probably the best example of pro athletes having potential in sheer or strict strength sports, when compared to the "Big" sports [football, basketball, hockey, and baseball...in whatever order], or among pro sports in general, aside from Olympic lifting [but including other Olympic sports, such as curling, which I would assume has very little crossover to athleticism in general, let alone to strength sports, or tennis, or any other].
I still just think that the Black athletic advantages, while pretty obvious in my mind, do not extend to strength sports in terms of the very best in the world. I think we would have seen more Black top WSM or powerlifting competitors if that was true.
On that note...here in Canada, French Canadians [the Quebecois] have won all the Canada's Strongest Man titles since 1997. Can you believe that? But even more surprising - I can't think of one top WSM level strongman who is French who has been "France French" ever...only the Quebecois.
So while racial differences intrigue me, there may even be some intra-racial, and even INTRA-ETHNIC GROUP, differences that are at play here.
I mean...it's not that "French people" are overrepresented in strongman...it's specifically the Quebecois.
I don't know if that's because the stronger and more robust French people settled in North America or if it's strictly a cultural heritage thing, where more Quebecois people compete in strongman due to its history, or as with most things - a bit of both, with the only question being to what extent or exact percentage do environment and genes drive these things.
I tend to think most things are strongly genetic, but the Quebec versus France strongman comparison is an interesting one.
I think the NFL players would be very, very strong - but I don't think they would be beating th likes of Brian Shaw or Hapthor Bjornnson.
PS - I hate Hollywood and the propaganda it produces [and I loved that the Oscars only had 9.85 million viewers, down from around ONE BILLION viewers in the mid-nineties], but I did think the movie "Concussion" was worth watching. I don't doubt that it was part of some other brainwashing agenda that went over my head, but I was happy to see Hollywood raise awareness about NFL's concussion problem, as pro athlete health concerns me, and no amount of money matters if you sustain a certain level of brain damage due to repeated head trauma.
1. Yes I thought Mariusz was the strongest man at strongman events, but I was convinced he would have been great/elite at conventional strength events as well. However I forgot that he always performed poorly at the Arnold events. I think at that time I attributed it the Arnold being a warm up to the WSM. But after googling it he never finished higher than 5th in an ASC. But in the early 2000’s I thought the ASC was the lesser of the two shows and that the lifts were even more gimmicky. But after reading this thread it seems the ASC was built to find out who really was strongest. Whereas the WSM had an element of athleticism.
2. It’s all speculation on my part, but my point was that watching a “skinny” (relative to what his is today) basketball player like Brian Shaw transform and dedicate himself to strength training made me realize if you took real athletes and put them on the same type of protocol it could be eye opening. I know the elite competitors do well, but most NFL practice squad players know if they can make a roster they will make “big” money. By the time these guys are done with football their bodies (and in many cases mind and will) are broken, taking competitive strength training away as an option.
Anyhow the NFL isn’t just black only potential competitors, there are many 6’7” white lineman who could do well.
Google Myles Garrett. He’s one (black) guy I think who would well if he decided to focus on strength events.
Also google Larry Allen bench press, he was an impressive presser.
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1. Yes I thought Mariusz was the strongest man at strongman events, but I was convinced he would have been great/elite at conventional strength events as well. However I forgot that he always preformed poorly at the Arnold events. I think at that time I attributed it the Arnold being a warm up to the WSM. But after googling it he never finished higher than 5th in an ASC. But in the early 2000’s I thought the ASC was the lesser of the two shows and that the lifts were even more gimmicky. But after reading this thread it seems the ASC was built to find out who really was strongest. Whereas the WSM had an element of athleticism.
2. It’s all speculation on my part, but my point was that watching a “skinny” (relative to what his is today) basketball player like Brian Shaw transform and dedicate himself to strength training made me realize if you took real athletes and put them on the same type of protocol it could be eye opening. I know the elite competitors do well, but most NFL practice squad players know if they can make a roster they will make “big” money. By the time these guys are done with football their bodies (and in many cases mind and will) are broken, taking competitive strength training away as an option.
Anyhow the NFL isn’t just black only potential competitors, there are many 6’7” white lineman who could do well.
Google Myles Garrett. He’s one (black) guy I think who would well if he decided to focus on strength events.
Also google Larry Allen bench press, he was an impressive presser.
Great post, i agree 100%.
There are a lot of guys who would do well in Strongman if they got into it at a young age.
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1. Yes I thought Mariusz was the strongest man at strongman events, but I was convinced he would have been great/elite at conventional strength events as well. However I forgot that he always performed poorly at the Arnold events. I think at that time I attributed it the Arnold being a warm up to the WSM. But after googling it he never finished higher than 5th in an ASC. But in the early 2000’s I thought the ASC was the lesser of the two shows and that the lifts were even more gimmicky. But after reading this thread it seems the ASC was built to find out who really was strongest. Whereas the WSM had an element of athleticism.
2. It’s all speculation on my part, but my point was that watching a “skinny” (relative to what his is today) basketball player like Brian Shaw transform and dedicate himself to strength training made me realize if you took real athletes and put them on the same type of protocol it could be eye opening. I know the elite competitors do well, but most NFL practice squad players know if they can make a roster they will make “big” money. By the time these guys are done with football their bodies (and in many cases mind and will) are broken, taking competitive strength training away as an option.
Anyhow the NFL isn’t just black only potential competitors, there are many 6’7” white lineman who could do well.
Google Myles Garrett. He’s one (black) guy I think who would well if he decided to focus on strength events.
Also google Larry Allen bench press, he was an impressive presser.
Great post - I now see what you mean about Markus.
I definitely do think there are times that strongmen "don't try", and I know that Canada's Strongest Man JF Caron has done this, but I've only known of times where he did this on the last day of a contest, when be was able to "throw away" a placing in an event, knowing he would still win the whole show.
Probably the last event of a contest - or an even better example would be the last event of a contest, where a competitor already won that event.
Two examples of this:
- I think it was at the 2002 Canada's Strongest Man contest where Canada's former "strongest Canadian ever" Hugo Girard pressed a 320-lb log like it was nothing, and didn't press anything heavier, because he won the contest. This shows how much strongman has advanced since then, as my own heaviest log press PR is 237-lb. It used to be routine for log presses to be under 350lb, with some guys failing before reaching 300-lb. I think the 1996 WSM contest had a 660-lb tire flip, when in my city, I have done the 750-lb and 950-lb tires for reps [six reps and two reps, respectively], and that was in the lightweight [<200-lb class]. I think in the 1983 WSM, they did the Farmer's Walk with 175-lb per side [!]. Again, even at the local shows in my city, we do 250-lb per side for the lightweights - we have an intermediate contest where Farmer's Walk is around 285-lb per hand or a bit more, and guys are basically warming up with 200-lb per hand. Not to take anything away from the Ironage strongmen, but I'm intrigued by how light some of the events were in some of the Ironage contests.
- I can't remember which WSM it was [maybe 2002 or 2003] when Mariusz Pudzianowski squatted something like 7 reps of the ascending weight barrel squat, and stopped because he was the last competitor to go, and he got enough reps to win the event, so he stopped.
But I don't think I've ever known a competitor - especially not a WSM winner - to throw away an entire contest. Although looking back at Mariusz' 6th place finish at the Arnold Pro Strongman in 2006, I sort of wonder why he would even compete in a contest at all where he would place 6th. It's just sort of...a low placing for a guy at that level, especially in a sport where egos often clash. So I suppose he could have done contests as a warm-up. I hadn't thought of that being a possible [or at least partial] explanation for his Arnold Pro placings.
Regarding the Arnold Pro Strongman's history...I can't speak much about it being THE elite strongman contest in terms of maximum strength for an an actual strongman contest, prior to 2008. But if I recall correctly, it had been a HUGELY HEAVY contest since around then - with the Atlas Stone event being an extremely heavy stone lifted over a laughably short bar - like an Atlas Stone in excess of 500-lb over a 44" or maybe max 48" bar or something. And that makes sense when measuring STRENGTH on that event, rather than WSM contests where the competitors have to run to the bars with the stone, and where the first bar starts off at maybe 72". That produces a situation where strongman like Dimitar Savatinov or Vytautas Lalas are almost dunking basketballs, lol. But with a 44" bar in the Arnold, it basically boils down to having the sheer strength to lift the Atlas Stone, but not a contest that favours a man for his height or running ability [again - just sheer strength in terms of lifting the stone].
Some of these events get even dumber, and an Ontario competitor almost died in one such Atlas Stone event, when he had to lift the stone into a precise cup, rather than over a straight bar, and passed out doing it, almost killing himself in the process. Check out the video here - it it pretty horrific, but FYI, the competitor was completely unscathed aside from a few scratches, so I find it easier to watch, knowing the strongman in question was perfectly fine [but almost for certain would have been seriously injured or died had the fallen six inches to the right from where he ended up falling]:
Regarding older Arnold Pro contests...the first one was held in 2002, and Mark Davis won it, and had an Axle Press of 365-lb. While that event has gotten heavier since then, 365-lb was pretty heavy even back then. Combine that with Mariusz' unusually low placings, and that would lead me to believe it was always the heavier strongman contest than the WSM, and maybe Arnold or whoever else was in charge at that time purposely formatted it that way to carve a niche in the strongman community, so as to offer something a bit different than WSM. Or maybe someone felt that WSM was too cardio-based, and powerlifting was too boring, so they found an intermediate way to run a contest, making a "best of both worlds" strength contest as a result.
I made a mistake here in the first sentence - I meant to say there aren't many Black elite strongmen...with some exceptions, such as OD Wilson, Mark Davis, and Mark Felix:
But...just looking at the history of strongman contests...it looks like strongman champions and top three podium finishers. I think OD Wilson placed 2nd in 1991, but sadly died in 1992 [the years may be one earlier in both, but I think I got that right].
Regarding strong Black guys in general...there simply aren't enough of them at the very highest level for me to think anything other than the fact that Whites have an advantage in sheer strength, just like Blacks [specifically, West Africans] have an advantage in shorter distance running events.
And I think Kenyans have an advantage in 10-mile runs, and I don't even know if Kenya is Easy or West Africa, but I'm thinking East Africa for some reason.
And in longer runs, we start seeing Whites get up there...possibly even win some of the much longer events, but I'm not sure. I'd have to check a list of the top 10 or top 100 marathon runners in history to see what the Black/White breakdown is, and running events that are even longer than marathons.
I think strength is very "pure", and that while some environmental explanations can explain why Blacks are not in hockey [equipment being expensive, whereas football equipment being provided by the high school], I don't think such explanations explain why Blacks have been historically out of the top echelon of strength athletes - but I do have that little hunch that also leads me to thinking what you do about the NFL players having potential in strength contests.
So it's definitely something I want to study further. I will check out the names of the guys you mentioned! There are some freaks in the NFL for sure, even though I don't watch it [but have seen videos here and there of some of them].
I find it funny that some of them play football with massive dreadlocks which somehow don't bother them during gameplay. ;D
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I typed "Ontario atlas stone dies" [sic] [not in quotes] in order to find the video I shared in my post above [although the competitor did NOT die, and was actually not even injured, and for all I know - may have even continued competing in the contest after he passed out while doing the Atlas stone loading event shown there - I didn't ask him about it, or ask any of my friends who know/competed against him], and some bullshit COVID propaganda video from VICE showed up as the FIRST result in the search. ::) I guess people are growing increasingly fatigued with the whole hyped pandemic at this point, but YouTube and other media is still pushing it to whatever extent they can.
Does anyone remember Bast, who used to post here? He changed his name to Bast Fakepandemic on Facebook, and was given 28 days to change his display name, so he changed it to Fakepandemic Bast on the 27th day. ;D
I am still temporarily-permanently suspended on Facebook for stating that only 26 Canadians under 40 died from COVID as of 09-23-2020 according to the Public Health Agency of Canada, out of 18.4 million Canadians in that age group.
BETTER NOT STATE FACTS, OR LOSE YOUR JOB AND GET BANNED FROM ALL SOCIAL MEDIA. REMEMBER: FEAR PORN ONLY. AND LINE UP TO BE A GUINEA PIG FOR YOUR GENE THERAPY COVID "VACCINE".
Unbelievable:
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Speaking of Craig Bongelli [the strongman athlete in the video above], and related to this topic - this video is from when Ontario's Strongest Man was held in my city - I think it's safe to say that at some point in the past decade, even PROVINCIAL LEVEL strongman contests became as heavy as the actual WSM contests up to around 2002 or 2003. Not in every lift...even in the early 2000s, WSM was bit heavier than an OSM held in the early 2010s...but they were pretty close for most lifts!
If you take pre-2000 WSM contests, they were routinely the same or even lighter than this OSM from 2013 - once again, to show the extent the sport has evolved strength-wise over the years:
And obviously NOT to compare myself to pro strongmen [I DO compete drug-free in the lightest weight class after all, so there is no comparison], but I just find it interesting to see competitors in the old WSM contest videos routinely do the Tire Flip, Farmer's Walk, and Viking Press events [even the Log Press] with weights that we ONLY see today in the very lightest weight class, or even in the lightest weight class at local shows, for that matter!
My city has a sort of mini-strongman culture [or HAD, pre-COVID], and had a great group of strong guys here, and actually had the biggest per-capita representation of guys competing in multiple OSM contests. Sort of like how Quebec consistently has the biggest per-capita representation of national level [CSM] guys.
I think in some cases, you see guys at a high level, and it inspires other people to join in.
If there is one thing I definitely hope we can see again in our insane "New Normal" bullshit post-COVID society, it's strongman contests. Even competing in my weight class keeps me grounded, and keeps me training heavy - heavy for me. I'm not naturally a big guy, and am WAY more comfortable being very light...so higher level competition is simply not in the cards. But I still like pushing myself, and training hard consistently.
I never felt I took anything for granted prior to COVID...but apparently I did, and didn't even realize it.
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God, my posts must be a bore to read - even on topics I know very well.
Here is the top Iranian Olympic lifter I was thinking about - Hossein Rezazadeh. Although it looks like his record was on the Snatch - not the Clean & Press:
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God, my posts must be a bore to read - even on topics I know very well.
Here is the top Iranian Olympic lifter I was thinking about - Hossein Rezazadeh. Although it looks like his record was on the Snatch - not the Clean & Press:
I'm just trying to remember who Mark Davis is ??? ??? ???
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1. Yes I thought Mariusz was the strongest man at strongman events, but I was convinced he would have been great/elite at conventional strength events as well. However I forgot that he always performed poorly at the Arnold events. I think at that time I attributed it the Arnold being a warm up to the WSM. But after googling it he never finished higher than 5th in an ASC. But in the early 2000’s I thought the ASC was the lesser of the two shows and that the lifts were even more gimmicky. But after reading this thread it seems the ASC was built to find out who really was strongest. Whereas the WSM had an element of athleticism.
If you watched the 2003 WSM which Mariusz dominated then you could easily walk away with that impression. Mariusz did beat big Z in the pressing and dead lifting events, but not because of raw power. They were not using heavy (for them) weights and it was about putting up the most reps in the fastest time. Mariusz was faster and more explosive. In comparison Big Z was slow, cramped up, gassed out and fell flat on his ass.
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I'm just trying to remember who Mark Davis is ??? ??? ???
So am I. But, he didn't win the first Arnold Strongman show. Mark Henry did.
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OK guys, as I mentioned the other day the events are going to be different this year including the new Titans Turntable. The events were announced to the competitors today so I can reveal all.
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OK guys, as I mentioned the other day the events are going to be different this year including the new Titans Turntable. The events were announced to the competitors today so I can reveal all.
Another thread claims there aren't going to be any fans at this year's WSM contest.
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All the way big dude
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All the way big dude
Big Z learned he needed to up the dose.
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All the way big dude
A few months after the 2002 World's Strongest Man Championship, Perry died abruptly on November 21, 2002, from heart failure due to enormous size caused by steroid use. He was ranked fourth in the world by the International Federation of Strength Athletes at the time of his death.
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A few months after the 2002 World's Strongest Man Championship, Perry died abruptly on November 21, 2002, from heart failure due to enormous size caused by steroid use. He was ranked fourth in the world by the International Federation of Strength Athletes at the time of his death.
A true getbigger
“ Perry died with no insurance and many debts. He is buried in a field beside his parents’ home, with only a tin funeral home plaque marking his grave.”
“ The blood toxicology report on Johnny Perry finds he had high levels of cocaine and the banned performance-enhancing drug G-H-B in his system when he died. G-H-B is gamma hydroxybutyrate, a "date-rape" drug that started out as a bodybuilding additive. The report also found Oxycodone in his system. His heart was enlarged.”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2003-mar-30-adna-strongman23-story.html%3f_amp=true
https://www.wfmynews2.com/mobile/article/news/local/cocaine-banned-muscle-builder-found-in-dead-strongmans-system/83-404125893
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A true getbigger
“ Perry died with no insurance and many debts. He is buried in a field beside his parents’ home, with only a tin funeral home plaque marking his grave.”
“ The blood toxicology report on Johnny Perry finds he had high levels of cocaine and the banned performance-enhancing drug G-H-B in his system when he died. G-H-B is gamma hydroxybutyrate, a "date-rape" drug that started out as a bodybuilding additive. The report also found Oxycodone in his system. His heart was enlarged.”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2003-mar-30-adna-strongman23-story.html%3f_amp=true
https://www.wfmynews2.com/mobile/article/news/local/cocaine-banned-muscle-builder-found-in-dead-strongmans-system/83-404125893
Perhaps that GHB, Oxycodone, and cocaine stuff had a WEEEEEE bit more to do with this guy's demise than anabolic steroids did, just a thought.
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Perhaps that GHB, Oxycodone, and cocaine stuff had a WEEEEEE bit more to do with this guy's demise than anabolic steroids did, just a thought.
From Goo to You by Way of Worm Food?