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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: pellius on July 13, 2021, 01:48:06 AM
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So I was having a discussion with someone who was doing one-arm dumbbell lateral raises where you brace yourself at an angle. Say, you are doing it with your right arm, is it better to do it leaning on your left side or is it better to hold on to something and lean to your right side?
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So I was having a discussion with someone who was doing one-arm dumbbell lateral raises where you brace yourself at an angle. Say, you are doing it with your right arm, is it better to do it leaning on your left side or is it better to hold on to something and lean to your right side?
Yes we have all seen people hanging from equipment sideways trying to change the angle of an arm raise. Does any of that shit make a real difference? Hell no just do two arms at the same time or use cables for increased range of resistance
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We need EMG data.
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Best to lay on a bench or floor on left side or even lay on back for crazy rear delt stretch
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in theory, the load on the shoulder joint will be highest when the extended arm is parallel to the ground. Adjusting the position of the torso can change the point during the ROM in which peak tension occurs. So the idea might hold some merit.
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vince says use the peek a boo bench to do it right. ;D
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Yes we have all seen people hanging from equipment sideways trying to change the angle of an arm raise. Does any of that shit make a real difference? Hell no just do two arms at the same time or use cables for increased range of resistance
You can make a case that exercises like lateral raises that deliberately put you in a position of bad leverage are a bad idea as you put an unusual amount stress on a single joint and the musculature in that area. For example, lifters do wide grip benches to hit the outer part of the pec and that’s also where most pec tears occur.
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I will say that single arm laterals are way better than bilateral.
Of course your body angle changes how it hits, lean left and the start is harder.
When doing cable pulley laterals you can achieve the same effect by having the pulley wheel about the height of your hand. If the wheel is at ground level you can change the lresistance curve simply by stepping further out. Say you do front cable raises and hit failure, take a big step forward and you can get a rep or two more.
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You can make a case that exercises like lateral raises that deliberately put you in a position of bad leverage are a bad idea as you put an unusual amount stress on a single joint and the musculature in that area. For example, lifters do wide grip benches to hit the outer part of the pec and that’s also where most pec tears occur.
Great point. I think they're workable but they need to be programmed with this in mind. Lots of volume, low weights, intensity techniques
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I never liked using DB's for these.
At my gym there is a machine with a handle that you can adjust and do the motion. Seems to work better.
Or i use a low cable and pull across my body, takes some getting used to but it smokes my delts fast.
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I hate one arm laterals with dumbells.....I do them using cables behind my back........great stretch and if done trictly without momentum,constant tension.
Generally I just do regular two arm laterals.
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By leaning to the right in the right arm example, they say that, by leaning, you "remove the beginning portion of the raise where the supraspinatus is most active", allowing the side delts to be activated through a full rom.
https://builtwithscience.com/dumbbell-shoulder-exercises/ (https://builtwithscience.com/dumbbell-shoulder-exercises/)
Study:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7552678/
(https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7552678/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/PJqDF24b/Screen-Shot-2019-07-06-at-5-56-40-pm-300x168.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/3rLmDQ8t/Screen-Shot-2019-07-06-at-5-56-53-pm-300x167.png)
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You can make a case that exercises like lateral raises that deliberately put you in a position of bad leverage are a bad idea as you put an unusual amount stress on a single joint and the musculature in that area. For example, lifters do wide grip benches to hit the outer part of the pec and that’s also where most pec tears occur.
This^ I don't do lateral raises.
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Yes we have all seen people hanging from equipment sideways trying to change the angle of an arm raise. Does any of that shit make a real difference? Hell no just do two arms at the same time or use cables for increased range of resistance
Thank you for that well thought out response. Since being on this board you have quickly established a reputation as a very deep thinker with a massive intellect who has all his priorities in life on point.
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Best to lay on a bench or floor on left side or even lay on back for crazy rear delt stretch
We are not talking about that.
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in theory, the load on the shoulder joint will be highest when the extended arm is parallel to the ground. Adjusting the position of the torso can change the point during the ROM in which peak tension occurs. So the idea might hold some merit.
I thought I posed the question in a very simple matter yet none thus far have been able to even address it let alone speculate on its efficiency.
Yes, the ROM changes but what do you think is superior? Leaning to the left or leaning to the right when doing single dumbell LATERALS with your RIGHT hand. And what is your reasoning.
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vince says use the peek a boo bench to do it right. ;D
OK, though no direct answer offered the picture implies what I am assuming, since you really didn't state it directly, that if you are going to use the "leaning" style that you should lean to the left when doing laterals on your right side. If my assumption is true what is your reasoning.
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I will say that single arm laterals are way better than bilateral.
Of course your body angle changes how it hits, lean left and the start is harder.
When doing cable pulley laterals you can achieve the same effect by having the pulley wheel about the height of your hand. If the wheel is at ground level you can change the lresistance curve simply by stepping further out. Say you do front cable raises and hit failure, take a big step forward and you can get a rep or two more.
What do you think is superior assuming that you believe it matters? Lean to the left or lean to the right when doing single laterals with your right hand?
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I never liked using DB's for these.
At my gym there is a machine with a handle that you can adjust and do the motion. Seems to work better.
Or i use a low cable and pull across my body, takes some getting used to but it smokes my delts fast.
Yes, there are superior movements to the dumbbell laterals done in any style. But limiting the movement to just single arm dumbbell laterals with your right hand should you lean to your left or your right.
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Thank you for that well thought out response. Since being on this board you have quickly established a reputation as a very deep thinker with a massive intellect who has all his priorities in life on point.
I used to do 3 sets of 10 side front and rear lateral raises in college. You know what happened my delts overpowered everything and then I wound up getting multiple shoulder surgeries. I do not train delts at all now. You hit the shoulder on chest day back day and arm day they are getting too much work isolating them and doing a gazillion side raises is asking for problems.
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I wasn't going to watch the entire twenty minutes but fortunately scrolling through I stumbled upon the topic at hand and Brignole is spot on. But again, living in an imperfect world given the two alternatives which is better? Leaning left or leaning right when training the right deltoid.
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I hate one arm laterals with dumbells.....I do them using cables behind my back........great stretch and if done trictly without momentum,constant tension.
Generally I just do regular two arm laterals.
Again, it's not which movement or equipment you find to be the most optimal but given the two alternatives which is better and why?
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By leaning to the right in the right arm example, they say that, by leaning, you "remove the beginning portion of the raise where the supraspinatus is most active", allowing the side delts to be activated through a full rom.
https://builtwithscience.com/dumbbell-shoulder-exercises/ (https://builtwithscience.com/dumbbell-shoulder-exercises/)
Study:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7552678/
(https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7552678/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/PJqDF24b/Screen-Shot-2019-07-06-at-5-56-40-pm-300x168.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/3rLmDQ8t/Screen-Shot-2019-07-06-at-5-56-53-pm-300x167.png)
And your choice would be?
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This^ I don't do lateral raises.
Sigh, I guess this thread failed miserably. Not a single person was able to answer what I thought was a simple direct question with a direct answer. When I look around on the gym floor and see all these people doing all these different movements I often wonder if any of them have given even a moment of thought to what they are doing and does it make sense. That's why you see people doing side bends while holding a weight in each hand or doing tricep kickbacks.
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Sigh, I guess this thread failed miserably. Not a single person was able to answer what I thought was a simple direct question with a direct answer. When I look around on the gym floor and see all these people doing all these different movements I often wonder if any of them have given even a moment of thought to what they are doing and does it make sense. That's why you see people doing side bends while holding a weight in each hand or doing tricep kickbacks.
So now tricep kickbacks don't work??
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So now tricep kickbacks don't work??
Compared to what? Doing nothing? Cable pushdowns? Instead of staring in the mirror blowing kisses at yourself: you self-indulgent, spoiled narcissist try to think a little. Just a little. Examine the strength and resistance curve of both movements if you even have the capacity to do so. Then come back and make your case.
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Compared to what? Doing nothing? Cable pushdowns? Instead of staring in the mirror blowing kisses at yourself: you self-indulgent, spoiled narcissist try to think a little. Just a little. Examine the strength and resistance curve of both movements if you even have the capacity to do so. Then come back and make your case.
Tricep kickbacks have a different feel than pushdowns you don't need to be a physicist to feel the difference
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Tricep kickbacks have a different feel than pushdowns you don't need to be a physicist to feel the difference
One of the advantages of being ignorant is that you don't know you are ignorant and make ignorant comments like this that have absolutely nothing to do with the subject matter. You jacking off your boyfriend's cock has a different feel than you jacking off your own cock.
No one is talking feelings. I swear, if you weren't living in your mom's house getting your fat allowance just so you can stuff your face with food and take pictures of yourself you'd be homeless offering blow jobs for 10 bucks.
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One of the advantages of being ignorant is that you don't know you are ignorant and make ignorant comments like this that have absolutely nothing to do with the subject matter. You jacking off your boyfriend's cock has a different feel than you jacking off your own cock.
No one is talking feelings. I swear, if you weren't living in your mom's house getting your fat allowance just so you can stuff your face with food and take pictures of yourself you'd be homeless offering blow jobs for 10 bucks.
Only jackasses follow a program designed by bookworms with calculators. Instinctive training listening to your body and how an exercise makes it feel is the proper way.
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Only jackasses follow a program designed by bookworms with calculators. Instinctive training listening to your body and how an exercise makes it feel is the proper way.
What if the body feels like being a couch potato?
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Only jackasses follow a program designed by bookworms with calculators. Instinctive training listening to your body and how an exercise makes it feel is the proper way.
You're such a colossal moron. When everything is just given to you in life you never really develop. Part of being a disciplined person is overcoming and even suppressing your feelings and desires. Like the above person said, what if you just feel like lying on a couch all day or eating ice cream every day?
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I wasn't going to watch the entire twenty minutes but fortunately scrolling through I stumbled upon the topic at hand and Brignole is spot on. But again, living in an imperfect world given the two alternatives which is better? Leaning left or leaning right when training the right deltoid.
Looking at it from the standpoint of resistance, when the lever arm gets longer, the resistance gets greater. So, if you lean away from the side of the dumbbell there would be a shorter lever when your arm was perpendicular to your body.
To use a more extreme example, if you did the exercise while lying on your left side on the floor, there would be no resistance at perpendicular.
So, given a choice I would lean toward the side of the dumbbell.
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This^ I don't do lateral raises.
I only do lateral raises for the delts directly, no more excercises at all, the delts get enough doing bench press, I do zero overhead pressing
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What if the body feels like being a couch potato?
[/quote
Then listen to your body and take a rest day
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What if the body feels like being a couch potato?
[/quote
Then listen to your body and take a rest day
What if the body feels like being a couch potato everyday?
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Gravity only pulls in one direction, down.
The reason some use more than one exercise per body part is because some are good at the near contracted position. Some are best at mid range. Some are best at stretch.
This is where some Nautilus fan chimes in that's why the machines are so great because they hit all the positions unlike many conventional free weight exercises. Sitting in machines is not training athletically.
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And your choice would be?
If the dumbbell is in the right hand, I consider leaning to the left better because there is less resistance at the top of the movement where the muscle is weakest position-wise, allowing for better form. There's also more tension at the bottom of the movement.
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What if the body feels like being a couch potato?
Cover yourself with sour cream.
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What if the body feels like being a couch potato everyday?
Buy sour cream in bulk.
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Cables would logically be the best for lateral raises because of constant tension.
Using dumbbells I think leaning away is best because the tension is more likely to be constant if you do not relax at the bottom of the movement.
Leaning toward does not generally provide constant tension at the bottom (but it could if you did not lower all the way).
Probably doesn't make much of a difference in any event.
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Tricep kickbacks are effective.
Are they as effective as some other exercises? No.
If you have minimal equipment (barbells and dumbbells only) then you have more limited exercise choice.
Compare tricep kickback to seated one arm dumbbell tricep extension or one arm lying dumbbell tricep extension. Pretty similar.
Tricep cable pushdowns are basically the same movement as kickbacks.
(https://ignorelimits.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/How-to-dumbbell-one-arm-overhead-triceps-extension.jpg)
(https://workoutlabs.com/wp-content/uploads/watermarked/Lying_Tricep_Extension1.png)
(https://i0.wp.com/gertlouw.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/TRICEP-DUMBBELL-KICKBACKS.jpg?ssl=1)
How about a cable kickback?
(https://bodybuilding-wizard.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/cable-triceps-kickback-exercise-2.jpg)
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What do you think is superior assuming that you believe it matters? Lean to the left or lean to the right when doing single laterals with your right hand?
I think it's impossible to say but you could speculate that movemenys that stress the lengthened position of a muscle are better for hypertrophy, as that's what the research seems to indicate. So that would be leaning to the left here. I'm always tinkering around with different variations of movements and then I remember it doesn't really seem to matter in the big picture :D
But logically, as some have said here, use movements that stress all lengths of the muscle. Like leg extentions should complement other leg exercises as no others stress the fully shortened position.
I saw many hate on one arm db laterals. I think these are the among the best movements for overloading the delts.
If the dumbbell is in the right hand, I consider leaning to the left better because there is less resistance at the top of the movement where the muscle is weakest position-wise, allowing for better form. There's also more tension at the bottom of the movement.
That was my thinking too. You can load the start harder with cables by having pulley at hand height.
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Tricep kickbacks are effective.
Are they as effective as some other exercises? No.
If you have minimal equipment (barbells and dumbbells only) then you have more limited exercise choice.
Compare tricep kickback to seated one arm dumbbell tricep extension or one arm lying dumbbell tricep extension. Pretty similar.
(https://ignorelimits.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/How-to-dumbbell-one-arm-overhead-triceps-extension.jpg)
(https://workoutlabs.com/wp-content/uploads/watermarked/Lying_Tricep_Extension1.png)
I find these brutal on the elbows, same with the barbell version. These days rope push downs are my best option.
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You can make a case that exercises like lateral raises that deliberately put you in a position of bad leverage are a bad idea as you put an unusual amount stress on a single joint and the musculature in that area. For example, lifters do wide grip benches to hit the outer part of the pec and that’s also where most pec tears occur.
what? lifters lift with a wider grip because it shortens the rom and that allows them to lift more weight
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I find these brutal on the elbows, same with the barbell version. These days rope push downs are my best option.
They are hard on the elbows. Great for tendonitis.
If you let the elbow/forearm angle go to less that 90 degrees you run into trouble.
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what? lifters lift with a wider grip because it shortens the rom and that allows them to lift more weight
He means when you flare the elbows wide which puts more stress on the pecs.
Bodybuilders flare the elbows for increased pec development.
Most of the pec tears nowadays are from using steroids which increase muscle strength beyond the strength of the tendons and ligaments.
When you tear a pec it's really the attachment tendon that snaps. Same with bicep tears. It's the tendon attachment.
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Your tricep straightens your arm, it makes no difference what excecise you use, just do the ones you like doing and that you can feel, I use rope triceps pulldowns , one exercise to failure, thats it...maybe 6 sets total..
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Always thought the kickback was useless and never did but was reading this the other day so maybe some use to it?
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(https://builtwithscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Screen-Shot-2018-08-04-at-12.19.26-AM-min.jpg)
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Always thought the kickback was useless and never did but was reading this the other day so maybe some use to it?
It seems like it should work but it doesn’t at least not for me.
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It seems like it should work but it doesn’t at least not for me.
Have you tried using it as a second exercise in a giant set for high reps?
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(https://builtwithscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Screen-Shot-2018-08-04-at-12.19.26-AM-min.jpg)
I've done every variation possible for triceps, it made zero difference.
The best exercises i've found to build them are dips, seated behind the head extensions and cable press downs.
The way the tricep works, i do not believe you can target a specific area for "growth". Maybe it will be more sore, but it seems to me it all works as a unit, just like your pecs and quads.
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Yes, there are superior movements to the dumbbell laterals done in any style. But limiting the movement to just single arm dumbbell laterals with your right hand should you lean to your left or your right.
So i tested this today while doing shoulders and triceps.
To me, while doing a DB lateral raise with my right hand, leaning to the "right" gave a better feel and contraction.
Leaning to the left made it feel a little more difficult at the beginning, but didn't seem to hit the delt the same way.
Just my 2 CC's.
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I have to admit I don't really understand this one, Pellius my friend. :(
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Have you tried using it as a second exercise in a giant set for high reps?
I keep it real simple these days. I do one tricep exercise following chest. Recently it’s been rope push downs. As I’ve said, the elbows don’t like the barbell and dumbbell extensions. I’ll probably go back to them trying light weight 20 rep sets.
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I've done every variation possible for triceps, it made zero difference.
The best exercises i've found to build them are dips, seated behind the head extensions and cable press downs.
The way the tricep works, i do not believe you can target a specific area for "growth". Maybe it will be more sore, but it seems to me it all works as a unit, just like your pecs and quads.
It's all bullsh*t.
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It's all bullsh*t.
For the most part. That said, I have noticed a greater pump in the lower part of the tris near the elbow from this movement. That’s why I’d like to keep it in the rotation because that’s where you seem to lose tri muscle with age.
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For the most part. That said, I have noticed a greater pump in the lower part of the tris near the elbow from this movement. That’s why I’d like to keep it in the rotation because that’s where you seem to lose tri muscle with age.
I shouldn't have said it's all bullsh*t.
There is a difference in different movements and some hit different heads better then others.
However, some movements like dips hit all three heads well so it's not a significant difference.
You could develop really good triceps just doing a pressing movement.
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Looking at it from the standpoint of resistance, when the lever arm gets longer, the resistance gets greater. So, if you lean away from the side of the dumbbell there would be a shorter lever when your arm was perpendicular to your body.
To use a more extreme example, if you did the exercise while lying on your left side on the floor, there would be no resistance at perpendicular.
So, given a choice I would lean toward the side of the dumbbell.
With free weights, the resistance is only pointed straight downward. So when you stand upright with a dumbbell in your hand there is zero resistance on your side delt. As you start to raise your arm the resistance on your side delt starts to increase. The problem with that is that it is the opposite of your body's strength curve. You are strongest at the bottom part of the movement and much weaker when your arm is parallel to the ground. With a dumbbell, the resistance is at its lightest when you are in your strongest position and the resistance is at its greatest when you are in your weakest position.
Holding the dumbbell in your right hand as you start to lean to the left you start to increase the resistance in that bottom position. Taking it to the extreme if you lie on your left side comletely then all the resistance on your side delt is in the bottom position, your strongest, and no resistance at the top position. So, though not perfect, you have to play with the angle so that you can more optimally balance the resistance to your side delt. When you lean to your right, which I see most people do, you only make the situation worse.
This is what Arthur Jones tried to compensate for with his cam which stimulated variable resistance. In the case of his lateral machine the cam peaks, causing more resistance, at the bottom of the movement, then start to tamper off, gets "lighter" as you progress through the movement.
Another example is with squatting-type movements. You are weakest at the bottom, full squat position getting stronger, or more precisely in a more advantageous strength curve, as you start to extend and push through.
This is important because it's similar to the saying, "a chain is only as strong as its weakest link". Because your joint moves in a circular pattern and free weights are not rotary but only presents a straight downward resistance, you are only able to handle a resistance that you can handle when you are at your weakest. That's why you see so many people using literally tons of weight on the 45 degree leg press but you know that if they broke a 15 degree angle the weight would collapse on them.
That's where force reps and partials come into play. For instance, after doing a leg pressing movement, say, on the Hammer machine, after failure, I immediately position the set back so that my legs will only bend at about 20 degrees and increase the weight considerably and bang out those partials when your legs are in its strongest position.
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I only do lateral raises for the delts directly, no more excercises at all, the delts get enough doing bench press, I do zero overhead pressing
How about rear delts or do you feel it is covered by rowing movements?
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Gravity only pulls in one direction, down.
The reason some use more than one exercise per body part is because some are good at the near contracted position. Some are best at mid range. Some are best at stretch.
This is where some Nautilus fan chimes in that's why the machines are so great because they hit all the positions unlike many conventional free weight exercises. Sitting in machines is not training athletically.
Bravo! Move to the head of the class.
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If the dumbbell is in the right hand, I consider leaning to the left better because there is less resistance at the top of the movement where the muscle is weakest position-wise, allowing for better form. There's also more tension at the bottom of the movement.
Another who actually thinks things through.
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Tricep kickbacks are effective.
Are they as effective as some other exercises? No.
If you have minimal equipment (barbells and dumbbells only) then you have more limited exercise choice.
Compare tricep kickback to seated one arm dumbbell tricep extension or one arm lying dumbbell tricep extension. Pretty similar.
Tricep cable pushdowns are basically the same movement as kickbacks.
(https://ignorelimits.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/How-to-dumbbell-one-arm-overhead-triceps-extension.jpg)
(https://workoutlabs.com/wp-content/uploads/watermarked/Lying_Tricep_Extension1.png)
(https://i0.wp.com/gertlouw.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/TRICEP-DUMBBELL-KICKBACKS.jpg?ssl=1)
How about a cable kickback?
(https://bodybuilding-wizard.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/cable-triceps-kickback-exercise-2.jpg)
Absolutely, Positively, NOT! Look at the picture you posted. Draw a line always pointing down to where the position of the dumbbell is when doing the movement. In the beginning of the kick-back position, there is zero resistance on your tricep. It is the muscles in your back that are being contracted to maintain the position. That's the finished position when doing the dumbbells rows and nobody thinks that works the triceps. And you can use only a very lightweight to do the movement properly and only really stress the tricep in the contracted position. People do it because they say they really "feel it", the guiding principle of the spoiled moron, Bhanks. But you really "feel" all muscles by forcibly contracting it even without weights. I remember cramping my bicep by really squeezing it in the contracted position just doing a bicep pose. Nobody believes, except Bhanks, that this will developed the size and strength of the muscle.
With the overhead tricep extension, assuming you don't fully lock out, tension, though not perfect, provides resistance throughout the full range of motion. This is an excellent tricep movement if limited to just free weights.
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Tricep kickbacks are effective.
Are they as effective as some other exercises? No.
If you have minimal equipment (barbells and dumbbells only) then you have more limited exercise choice.
Compare tricep kickback to seated one arm dumbbell tricep extension or one arm lying dumbbell tricep extension. Pretty similar.
Tricep cable pushdowns are basically the same movement as kickbacks.
(https://ignorelimits.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/How-to-dumbbell-one-arm-overhead-triceps-extension.jpg)
(https://workoutlabs.com/wp-content/uploads/watermarked/Lying_Tricep_Extension1.png)
(https://i0.wp.com/gertlouw.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/TRICEP-DUMBBELL-KICKBACKS.jpg?ssl=1)
How about a cable kickback?
(https://bodybuilding-wizard.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/cable-triceps-kickback-exercise-2.jpg)
Addendum: I missed the last pic with cable. Now if you do it with cables it is far better as there is resistance through the movement. Cable are much more effective at following the circular pattern of your joints. Also, the one lying of the bench is good too but better if your elbows are position a bit further back.
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Pellius u stupid fuck lie down on the floor on your back now take the two dumbells reaching the opposing sholder thank me later fagget
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I think it's impossible to say but you could speculate that movemenys that stress the lengthened position of a muscle are better for hypertrophy, as that's what the research seems to indicate. So that would be leaning to the left here. I'm always tinkering around with different variations of movements and then I remember it doesn't really seem to matter in the big picture :D
But logically, as some have said here, use movements that stress all lengths of the muscle. Like leg extentions should complement other leg exercises as no others stress the fully shortened position.
I saw many hate on one arm db laterals. I think these are the among the best movements for overloading the delts.
That was my thinking too. You can load the start harder with cables by having pulley at hand height.
It is possible to say, and you just said it.
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Fucking idiot do the exercise above
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Always thought the kickback was useless and never did but was reading this the other day so maybe some use to it?
I read a similar study, too. They measure at the contracted position which is at it's greatest when your arm is fully extended. More so than any other free weight tricep movement. Problem is that there is zero tension in the beginning. Many believe, and there are studies to back it up, that it is getting that stretch that is causing the muscle damage and consequently, muscle hypertrophy. That may explain why bbers get good results using such sloppy form. Look at Ronnie as he throws up the weight doing t-bar rows. Tremendous stress and resistance at the bottom of the movement and then very little contraction as momentum takes over.
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(https://builtwithscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Screen-Shot-2018-08-04-at-12.19.26-AM-min.jpg)
Nonsense. Your whole muscles contracts when you extend your elbows. Just as idiotic when people say the toes out for inner calf and toes out for outer.
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Have you tried using it as a second exercise in a giant set for high reps?
And if he did he would experience a very extreme pump. But that would apply to any exercise he did that provided resistance in the fully contracted position, like, say, cable pushdowns using a rope where you can really pull back and get a good contraction. The bonus is that you are getting resistance throughout the entire range.
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Pellius you are a dumb mother fucker especially at your age concerned with the non spiritual
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Absolutely, Positively, NOT! Look at the picture you posted. Draw a line always pointing down to where the position of the dumbbell is when doing the movement. In the beginning of the kick-back position, there is zero resistance on your tricep. It is the muscles in your back that are being contracted to maintain the position. That's the finished position when doing the dumbbells rows and nobody thinks that works the triceps. And you can use only a very lightweight to do the movement properly and only really stress the tricep in the contracted position. People do it because they say they really "feel it", the guiding principle of the spoiled moron, Bhanks. But you really "feel" all muscles by forcibly contracting it even without weights. I remember cramping my bicep by really squeezing it in the contracted position just doing a bicep pose. Nobody believes, except Bhanks, that this will developed the size and strength of the muscle.
With the overhead tricep extension, assuming you don't fully lock out, tension, though not perfect, provides resistance throughout the full range of motion. This is an excellent tricep movement if limited to just free weights.
Obviously tricep kickbacks are not your power movement for growth just like side laterals are not for delts. Both these movements are finishing movements to get the pump contraction not your power growth movements neither should be done heavy anyway as you just need light weight to squeeze at the end of the movement neither is supposed to be a heavy power growth movement. These are both finishers not solo exercises
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Pellius u stupid fuck lie down on the floor on your back now take the two dumbells reaching the opposing sholder thank me later fagget
Do this
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I've done every variation possible for triceps, it made zero difference.
The best exercises i've found to build them are dips, seated behind the head extensions and cable press downs.
The way the tricep works, i do not believe you can target a specific area for "growth". Maybe it will be more sore, but it seems to me it all works as a unit, just like your pecs and quads.
I like the way you think. Using dips for triceps it does make a difference in how you position your torso so that you stress the tricep more than the front delts and chest. Arthur Jones once said that you can train and develop your entire upper torso with just a dipping and pullup bar. I wish I could do dips but I have a detached rotator cuff.
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So i tested this today while doing shoulders and triceps.
To me, while doing a DB lateral raise with my right hand, leaning to the "right" gave a better feel and contraction.
Leaning to the left made it feel a little more difficult at the beginning, but didn't seem to hit the delt the same way.
Just my 2 CC's.
You feel it more because it is a movement that provides the greatest resistance in that contracted position. It's that contraction you feel but does it train the muscle optimally? Unlike Bhanks, I never trust my "feelings" in anything in life. I trust reason. An analogy would be the leg extension versus the squat. You can really feel those quads after a brutal set of full contraction leg extensions, there have been times when I even cramped up. With squats, you can never achieve resistance in the fully extended position. But do you think you can optimally develop your quads doing just leg extensions as you would doing squat type movements?
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I have to admit I don't really understand this one, Pellius my friend. :(
Just use a cable or watch the Brignole interview that Joswift posted. I kept nodding with enthusiastic approval as I listened to a thinking person explains the ins and outs of what you're doing. I also learned something that I didn't consider until Brignole explained it. I always did the movement with the cable wheel positioned at the very bottom. But if you position it so that it is in line with your hand in the bottom position hanging at your side, though I think it's better to be one notch lower, you even more simulate the strength curve of your side delt. Greatest resistance at the start of the movement when you are at your strongest, and less as you progress through the movement as your leverage advantage decreases. I currently compensate by helping myself with my other hand, sort of like force reps except I would have to do it with every rep, to compensate as I start to generate less force as leverage example diminishes but Brignole's way is superior. I am going to look that guy up and hopefully learn something.
He's my kind of person.
As an aside, I live in Cali at the time when Brignole was competing. When I saw him in person walking into the gym in regular clothes I was very unimpressed. He had a bit of a rep back then so my expectations were a bit high. I thought to myself that it doesn't look like even lifted. When he stripped down for the photoshoot my eyes just dropped! I never wanted to be a big bulky bber being stared at everywhere I went, especially now when the first thing people think is steroids, but when I saw Brignole I thought that is the way I want to look.
(https://www.greatestphysiques.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Doug-no2.jpg)
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I keep it real simple these days. I do one tricep exercise following chest. Recently it’s been rope push downs. As I’ve said, the elbows don’t like the barbell and dumbbell extensions. I’ll probably go back to them trying light weight 20 rep sets.
That's because your hands and wrist are free and turn into the movement naturally. When you use a straight bar you are twisting your wrist and elbows in the top position. It's fine when you are young but it starts to takes it's toll as the years and decades wear on.
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Pellius u stupid fuck lie down on the floor on your back now take the two dumbells reaching the opposing sholder thank me later fagget
Why would I take the advice of a fat, drunken slob whose brain has been fried by drugs and whose speech is slurred that thinks eating grass is the key to good health?
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Obviously tricep kickbacks are not your power movement for growth just like side laterals are not for delts. Both these movements are finishing movements to get the pump contraction not your power growth movements neither should be done heavy anyway as you just need light weight to squeeze at the end of the movement neither is supposed to be a heavy power growth movement. These are both finishers not solo exercises
"Finishers?" LOL. "Side laterals are not for delts?" God are you dumb. Go back to stuffing your face and posing in the front of the mirror waiting for another check from your mom. Adults are talking here.
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https://www.instagram.com/p/B6UYxAvJ711/?utm_medium=copy_link
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Why would I take the advice of a fat, drunken slob whose brain has been fried by drugs and whose speech is slurred that thinks eating grass is the key to good health?
try it with a 25 pound dumbells it takes less than 60 seconds. I choose to help those who are ill like yourself because you are so slow to realize how you would rather just chat with others is what youre really hoping to acheive
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You feel it more because it is a movement that provides the greatest resistance in that contracted position. It's that contraction you feel but does it train the muscle optimally? Unlike Bhanks, I never trust my "feelings" in anything in life. I trust reason. An analogy would be the leg extension versus the squat. You can really feel those quads after a brutal set of full contraction leg extensions, there have been times when I even cramped up. With squats, you can never achieve resistance in the fully extended position. But do you think you can optimally develop your quads doing just leg extensions as you would doing squat type movements?
To be fair I have seen dudes squatting a ton with no leg development. Meanwhile I have seen a girl who only did leg extensions for post surgical rehab therapy with separation and teardrop development in her quads
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"Finishers?" LOL. "Side laterals are not for delts?" God are you dumb. Go back to stuffing your face and posing in the front of the mirror waiting for another check from your mom. Adults are talking here.
Meanwhile my delts are so overdeveloped I don't even train them and that is after bilateral shoulder repairs. They are not the power movement not the heavy movement the shoulder press is your heavy movement that involves all 3 heads. The side lateral is to push blood into the muscle after the power movement. You don't need more than 25lbs on side laterals. Just like the kickback is at the end to squeeze the lockout and push blood in it is not the power press movement for triceps again you only need about 25lbs for kickbacks it is about the lockout at the top and the side raise is about blood pump not micro tearing power
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Meanwhile my delts are so overdeveloped I don't even train them and that is after bilateral shoulder repairs. They are not the power movement not the heavy movement the shoulder press is your heavy movement that involves all 3 heads. The side lateral is to push blood into the muscle after the power movement. You don't need more than 25lbs on side laterals. Just like the kickback is at the end to squeeze the lockout and push blood in it is not the power press movement for triceps again you only need about 25lbs for kickbacks it is about the lockout at the top and the side raise is about blood pump not micro tearing power
For clarity, you did NOT mean to say that side laterals don't work the delts, right?
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I have a tricep movement that I rarely see done but I really like it. You set up in a smith machine like you're doing behind the neck presses, only you make it a tricep move by taking a very close grip, elbows straight out. Tremendous "anabolic stretch" at the bottom :D
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I have a tricep movement that I rarely see done but I really like it. You set up in a smith machine like you're doing behind the neck presses, only you make it a tricep move by taking a very close grip, elbows straight out. Tremendous "anabolic stretch" at the bottom :D
Like a close grip behind the neck press?
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Always thought the kickback was useless and never did but was reading this the other day so maybe some use to it?
I read a similar study, too. They measure at the contracted position which is at it's greatest when your arm is fully extended. More so than any other free weight tricep movement. Problem is that there is zero tension in the beginning. Many believe, and there are studies to back it up, that it is getting that stretch that is causing the muscle damage and consequently, muscle hypertrophy. That may explain why bbers get good results using such sloppy form. Look at Ronnie as he throws up the weight doing t-bar rows. Tremendous stress and resistance at the bottom of the movement and then very little contraction as momentum takes over.
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https://www.instagram.com/p/B6UYxAvJ711/?utm_medium=copy_link
When I first looked at that I rolled my eyes but under closer examination, I see that there is continuous and more even tension throughout the movement. It does seem like a lot of unnecessary trouble having to drag a bench into position and then properly position your body on the bench. But
you are leaning on the proper side -- the right side when training your left deltoid.
Another suggestion would to use those "ankle straps" instead of a handle. Ideally, you always want the resistance to be directly applied on the same side to the muscle being trained. For example, with the Nautilus side delt machine, the resistance is applied directly to the humerus, the bone the deltoid raises. With a handle, the resistance first has to pass through the fingers, the weakest link in that movement. With a strap, the resistance is applied directly to the back of the wrist, the same side as the side delt. You will find that you can use more weight and use it more comfortably.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/916ehZMy5aL._AC_SL1500_.jpg)
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try it with a 25 pound dumbells it takes less than 60 seconds. I choose to help those who are ill like yourself because you are so slow to realize how you would rather just chat with others is what youre really hoping to acheive
I would rather chat with others? Brah, I train far more, far harder, and far longer than you have. Why don't you take your own advice and put the beer and weed down as well as dispensing constant advice nobody asked for or want and start working out again and lose all that excess flab.
Before you can even think about "helping others" help yourself first. The only reason you are constantly giving diet and training is advice is not because you care and want to help people. You just want to feel better about yourself and think it puts you above others telling people what they should do. Remember, you were the one that posted the vid of you hitting the heavy bag. You are almost at Shizzo level. You just look like a drunken
fat slob -- a living example of Hill Billy White trash.
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To be fair I have seen dudes squatting a ton with no leg development. Meanwhile I have seen a girl who only did leg extensions for post surgical rehab therapy with separation and teardrop development in her quads
And your point is? When I was living in Inglewood, Ca. I use to see nigs on the basketball court more ripped and muscular than you who lived off grape juice and Popeye's chicken and the only workout they do is running from the cops.
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I would rather chat with others? Brah, I train far more, far harder, and far longer than you have. Why don't you take your own advice and put the beer and weed down as well as dispensing constant advice nobody asked for or want and start working out again and lose all that excess flab.
Before you can even think about "helping others" help yourself first. The only reason you are constantly giving diet and training is advice is not because you care and want to help people. You just want to feel better about yourself and think it puts you above others telling people what they should do. Remember, you were the one that posted the vid of you hitting the heavy bag. You are almost at Shizzo level. You just look like a drunken
fat slob -- a living example of Hill Billy White trash.
Like Shizzo before him, this story (if it hasn't happened already) ends with a cock down his throat.
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I have a tricep movement that I rarely see done but I really like it. You set up in a smith machine like you're doing behind the neck presses, only you make it a tricep move by taking a very close grip, elbows straight out. Tremendous "anabolic stretch" at the bottom :D
The "anabolic stretch" is Nirvana to a bber.
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The tricep kickback with dumbbell and the plate loaded leg extension are very similar.
Both are isolation movements, both have no load at the bottom of the movement, and both work in the same plane.
The knee and the elbow are similar in function.
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I would rather chat with others? Brah, I train far more, far harder, and far longer than you have. Why don't you take your own advice and put the beer and weed down as well as dispensing constant advice nobody asked for or want and start working out again and lose all that excess flab.
Before you can even think about "helping others" help yourself first. The only reason you are constantly giving diet and training is advice is not because you care and want to help people. You just want to feel better about yourself and think it puts you above others telling people what they should do. Remember, you were the one that posted the vid of you hitting the heavy bag. You are almost at Shizzo level. You just look like a drunken
fat slob -- a living example of Hill Billy White trash.
meltdown lol you lonley asswipe
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For clarity, you did NOT mean to say that side laterals don't work the delts, right?
I said they are not the power movement that work the delts they are a finishing pump movement not the heavy pressing movement
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Like a close grip behind the neck press?
Yes, like this.
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We are not talking about that.
But I think that is why that technique is used. Leaning to the left allows a greater stretch at the bottom of the movement.
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Yes, like this.
at that point why not just do a jm press?
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at that point why not just do a jm press?
You could, and like some argued it doesn't hugely matter which exercise you choose. But every exercise feels a bit different, I don't know of any other movement that stretches the triceps as much - the stretch feels mostly on the lower triceps though. I'm sure many would hate this exercise but for me it feels really stable and efficient for overloading.
I also have a bit of incline on my bench even though I go begind the neck.
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Yes, like this.
Looks like another movement that’s tough on the wrists.
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You feel it more because it is a movement that provides the greatest resistance in that contracted position. It's that contraction you feel but does it train the muscle optimally? Unlike Bhanks, I never trust my "feelings" in anything in life. I trust reason. An analogy would be the leg extension versus the squat. You can really feel those quads after a brutal set of full contraction leg extensions, there have been times when I even cramped up. With squats, you can never achieve resistance in the fully extended position. But do you think you can optimally develop your quads doing just leg extensions as you would doing squat type movements?
I agree 100%.
A "feel" doesn't mean much. I can get an incredible pump and feel doing pushups and cable flyes, but my chest isn't going to grow much.
Same with leg extensions.
There is way more to this, but i'm honestly not much of an expert on kinesiology. I just lift heavy and as intense as possible.
It is an interesting subject i'd like to know more about.
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But I think that is why that technique is used. Leaning to the left allows a greater stretch at the bottom of the movement.
Actually, you're right. I didn't read it seriously because of who wrote it. It's hard to take anything he says seriously. When I heard "laying of the floor" my mind already rejected it.
I stand corrected.
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Looks like another movement that’s tough on the wrists.
That's exactly what I thought. That's the problem with using a straight bar. You start to twist your wrist in the beginning stretch position. Just like when doing tricep pushdowns with a straight bar. As you hold the bar tight and start to go to the up position, the bar is pressing against your thumb twisting your wrist, followed by forearms and then elbows. It's similar to a basic Aikido arm twisting movement. A thumbless grip is better because it allows your wrist more freedom of movement but it's better to have the bar or grip handle turned at an angle that you see on all modern equipment like the Hammer line.
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I agree 100%.
A "feel" doesn't mean much. I can get an incredible pump and feel doing pushups and cable flyes, but my chest isn't going to grow much.
Same with leg extensions.
There is way more to this, but i'm honestly not much of an expert on kinesiology. I just lift heavy and as intense as possible.
It is an interesting subject i'd like to know more about.
LOL! With all the studies and theorizing in the end that's really all that matters.
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https://www.instagram.com/p/CP03owtp69Z/
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That's exactly what I thought. That's the problem with using a straight bar. You start to twist your wrist in the beginning stretch position. Just like when doing tricep pushdowns with a straight bar. As you hold the bar tight and start to go to the up position, the bar is pressing against your thumb twisting your wrist, followed by forearms and then elbows. It's similar to a basic Aikido arm twisting movement. A thumbless grip is better because it allows your wrist more freedom of movement but it's better to have the bar or grip handle turned at an angle that you see on all modern equipment like the Hammer line.
For biceps I’m doing Hammer Curls as the default movement as it keeps your wrists in a neutral position throughout the movement. Sure, you don’t get the Vince Basile type supination but biceps peak is not something that’s keeping up at night these days😁
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https://www.instagram.com/p/CP03owtp69Z/
Arthur Jones always pointed out that there is a big difference between demonstrating strength and developing strength. I think what Sly is doing here is silly and pointless other than maybe to impress others and demonstrate what he can do at his age. Still, for me, he is a total inspiration and is taking the human body to a level unheard of just a generation ago. And he's not even a competitive athlete. Just a fitness buff.
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For biceps I’m doing Hammer Curls as the default movement as it keeps your wrists in a neutral position throughout the movement. Sure, you don’t get the Vince Basile type supination but biceps peak is not something that’s keeping up at night these days😁
LOL! Basile will never live down that supination machine. But no matter how you do curls getting that peak as the muscle develops is pure genetics. Albert Beckles and Robby Robinson don't have nearly the size the bbers of today have, but not all of them have their peak. Look at Levrone. Huge arms. Looks almost like a cartoon character hanging relaxed on his side. Even Arnold's right arm had a more distinct peak than his left.
Genetics. All genetics.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Q9HjB82QdJs/maxresdefault.jpg)http://(https://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186228&d=1111590531)
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Seems pellius is still jerkin around playing friendships instead of doing the exercise
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Arthur Jones always pointed out that there is a big difference between demonstrating strength and developing strength. I think what Sly is doing here is silly and pointless other than maybe to impress others and demonstrate what he can do at his age. Still, for me, he is a total inspiration and is taking the human body to a level unheard of just a generation ago. And he's not even a competitive athlete. Just a fitness buff.
What is the difference between demonstrating strength and developing strength?
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What is the difference between demonstrating strength and developing strength?
Developing strength is doing what Arthur Jones says and using his machines.
Nothing else is as good.
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Developing strength is doing what Arthur Jones says and using his machines.
Nothing else is as good.
:D I believe it.
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What is the difference between demonstrating strength and developing strength?
Doing a one rep max will demonstrate how strong you are. Doing a set of 8-12 reps to failure you can't use as much weight but it will be more productive to developing muscular size and strength.
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Doing a one rep max will demonstrate how strong you are. Doing a set of 8-12 reps to failure you can't use as much weight but it will be more productive to developing muscular size and strength.
Why don't Olympic lifters and powerlifters do 8-12 rep sets?
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Powerlifters and Olympic weight lifters have weight classes they want strength which is really more technique CNS recruitment than actual muscular hypertrophy which I believe is a better definition of muscular development but regardless eventually a lack of hypertrophy will limit "strength". The massive guys don't go low because something will give out when you get that strong muscles get more blood flow than tendons. After we address these issues first we can then discuss what rep schemes achieve hypertrophy vs just teaching the muscle to lift heavier just because someone can recruit more for a single press and has better technique doesn't make them stronger. I do not accept Pellius defintion. As the other guy may get more reps with a heavier weight and proper form. Bodybuilders want to isolate the muscle competitive weight lifters and powerlifters want to recruit everything including mechanical advantages and momentum to move the weight that doesn't make them stronger
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Powerlifters and Olympic weight lifters have weight classes they want strength which is really more technique CNS recruitment than actual muscular hypertrophy which I believe is a better definition of muscular development but regardless eventually a lack of hypertrophy will limit "strength". The massive guys don't go low because something will give out when you get that strong muscles get more blood flow than tendons. After we address these issues first we can then discuss what rep schemes achieve hypertrophy vs just teaching the muscle to lift heavier just because someone can recruit more for a single press and has better technique doesn't make them stronger. I do not accept Pellius defintion. As the other guy may get more reps with a heavier weight and proper form. Bodybuilders want to isolate the muscle competitive weight lifters and powerlifters want to recruit everything including mechanical advantages and momentum to move the weight that doesn't make them stronger
But the comment was about developing strength.
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But the comment was about developing strength.
You are implying 8-12 reps doesn't develop strength it absolutely does but it also develops hypertrophy which would put them out of their weight classes. That is why they train to learn technique leverage and mechanical advantages. I would argue 8-12 reps develops more strength than low reps as again I do not accept the one rep max at a certain weight as the definition of strength development.
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You are implying 8-12 reps doesn't develop strength it absolutely does but it also develops hypertrophy which would put them out of their weight classes. That is why they train to learn technique leverage and mechanical advantages. I would argue 8-12 reps develops more strength than low reps as again I do not accept the one rep max at a certain weight as the definition of strength development.
Heavyweights don't have to make weight. If a bodybuilder develops strength isn't he using leverages as well?
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But the comment was about developing strength.
If your muscles grow and you add muscular tissue you have developed strength you are absolutely stronger than you were before regardless if you have been practicing your one rep max on some lift.
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Heavyweights don't have to make weight. If a bodybuilder develops strength isn't he using leverages as well?
I try not to use any leverage or momentum the idea is to isolate. Powerlifters will arch their back up to make the chest closer to the bar widen their grip to narrow the distance the arms extend then bounce the weight 4 inches off their sternum using their legs and back and call it a bench press record. That is horseshit bodybuilderss do high neck presses to the chest and squeeze their pecs completely different movement
Again in my opinion developing strength means adding muscle not using big weights. Weights are merely tools not the goal
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a lack of hypertrophy will limit "strength"
Tell that to powerlifters in the 114-148 pound class who deadlift more than 600 pounds, squat with more than 500 pounds, and bench 300 or more.
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You are implying 8-12 reps doesn't develop strength it absolutely does but it also develops hypertrophy which would put them out of their weight classes. That is why they train to learn technique leverage and mechanical advantages. I would argue 8-12 reps develops more strength than low reps as again I do not accept the one rep max at a certain weight as the definition of strength development.
It doesn`t develop hypertrophy if you are attempting to stay at a certain bodyweight and you don`t ingest enough calories and protein.
If it does,it`s gonna take a long time to develop.
Nutrition = 75 % of bodybuilding.
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Tell that to powerlifters in the 114-148 pound class who deadlift more than 600 pounds, squat with more than 500 pounds, and bench 300 or more.
&t=11s
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&t=11s
That`s not REAL powerlifting.......when I competed back in the 1970`s that kind of a ridiculous arch wouldn`t be considered legal at all.
Do a Google search on Lamar Gant just for starters then get back to me.
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It doesn`t develop hypertrophy if you are attempting to stay at a certain bodyweight and you don`t ingest enough calories and protein.
If it does,it`s gonna take a long time to develop.
Nutrition = 75 % of bodybuilding.
But what is your definition of bodybuilding? Take enough test and tren, and you can almost eat whatever you want. Do you honestly think that all pro bodybuilders eat clean? Even coming close to a contest?
Steroids let you eat almost anything you want. A few weeks out, you might limit yourself a tad.
A few days out, you cut water a bit. Then you cut carbs, then you add in the diuretic, then you cut the water even more. Then between the prejudjing, you load up on carbs, and try not to die before the night show.
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But what is your definition of bodybuilding? Take enough test and tren, and you can almost eat whatever you want. Do you honestly think that all pro bodybuilders eat clean? Even coming close to a contest?
Steroids let you eat almost anything you want. A few weeks out, you might limit yourself a tad.
A few days out, you cut water a bit. Then you cut carbs, then you add in the diuretic, then you cut the water even more. Then between the prejudjing, you load up on carbs, and try not to die before the night show.
You just eliminated the need for pre contest programs right there.
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Why don't Olympic lifters and powerlifters do 8-12 rep sets?
Because they don't build limit strength. But you know this.
For a Mensa member Bhank sure is dumb.
Singles can develop great strength and power. Oly lifters commonly do sets of 2 reps.
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But what is your definition of bodybuilding? Take enough test and tren, and you can almost eat whatever you want. Do you honestly think that all pro bodybuilders eat clean? Even coming close to a contest?
Steroids let you eat almost anything you want. A few weeks out, you might limit yourself a tad.
A few days out, you cut water a bit. Then you cut carbs, then you add in the diuretic, then you cut the water even more. Then between the prejudjing, you load up on carbs, and try not to die before the night show.
I agree for the most part but what`s that got to do with what I posted ?
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I agree for the most part but what`s that got to do with what I posted ?
Because I don't think nutrition is 75%, on any level of bodybuilding (not counting natural)
In my opinion, I think you were cheating yourself, Wes. You probably could have enjoyed some good food, and even kept more size, if you upped the dosage.
But they won't tell you that.
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Because I don't think nutrition is 75%, on any level of bodybuilding (not counting natural)
In my opinion, I think you were cheating yourself, Wes. You probably could have enjoyed some good food, and even kept more size, if you upped the dosage.
But they won't tell you that.
You may be right but I didn`t want to rely solely on drug use.
Also some pros stay lean when on GH and can eat almost anything but you can bet most pros also eat tons of egg whites,fish,and chicken.
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Because they don't build limit strength. But you know this.
For a Mensa member Bhank sure is dumb.
Singles can develop great strength and power. Oly lifters commonly do sets of 2 reps.
MENSA must have dropped their standards.
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MENSA must have dropped their standards.
I feel bad about calling Bhank dumb.
Sorry, Bhank.
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I try not to use any leverage or momentum the idea is to isolate. Powerlifters will arch their back up to make the chest closer to the bar widen their grip to narrow the distance the arms extend then bounce the weight 4 inches off their sternum using their legs and back and call it a bench press record. That is horseshit bodybuilderss do high neck presses to the chest and squeeze their pecs completely different movement
Again in my opinion developing strength means adding muscle not using big weights. Weights are merely tools not the goal
Said in another way, a Powerlifter/Olympic Lifter tries to find and develop a way or technique to make the lift as easy as possible to move as much weight as possible. A bber tries to perform and exercise in a way to make it as hard as possible to put maximum stress on the muscle. The weight, the resistance is just a means to an end. For Powerlifters/Olympic Lifters moving the maximum amount of weight is the end.
An obvious example is the barbell curl. You can use a relatively large amount of weight by just blasting it up. You probably could use maybe half that weight if you minimize any body swing and rely on just pure bicep contraction. Which one will put more stress on the bicep?
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Why don't Olympic lifters and powerlifters do 8-12 rep sets?
Sure they do. They also do isolation exercises. Where did you get the notion that all they did is the Snatch and the Clean and Jerk all day?
But really, it's irrelevant to the point being made. Olympic lifting is not about pure muscular strength. There is a lot of technique and strategy involved.
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But what is your definition of bodybuilding? Take enough test and tren, and you can almost eat whatever you want. Do you honestly think that all pro bodybuilders eat clean? Even coming close to a contest?
Steroids let you eat almost anything you want. A few weeks out, you might limit yourself a tad.
A few days out, you cut water a bit. Then you cut carbs, then you add in the diuretic, then you cut the water even more. Then between the prejudjing, you load up on carbs, and try not to die before the night show.
No matter what you do or take, if you are in a huge caloric surplus you will get fat. Just look at the majority of heavyweight strength athletes.
Kind of comical you giving advice on how to peak for a show.
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Let's see if I can clear this up. This only makes sense if you believe that taxing the muscle as much as possible will stimulate an adaptive response.
Pushing yourself and squeezing as much out of the muscle as possible. And this isn't just about maximizing intensity.
When you do a one-rep max, say it's a 405 bench press, and no matter how hard you push you simply cannot get another rep. Here you have a set of maximal intensity but did you really tax your muscles to it's limit? There is the concept call "inroads", i.e., how "deep" you get into the muscle.
Sure you cannot generate another 400+ lbs of force to get that extra rep but you sure have a lot more in you. You could easily generate another 350 lbs of force, and after that another 300 lbs (these numbers are arbitrary just to make a point). If you are like Milos and his forced reps and drop sets he wants to get to a point where you can barely move the bar.
Remember, a muscle fiber contracts in a all or nothing way. It doesn't contract more or less depending upon the load. It's all or nothing and it will recruit only the fibers necessary to move the resistance and as that fiber exhaust itself other fibers will be recruited to replace it When you contract a muscle until it simply cannot contract any more then you have made the maximum amount of inroads. All available fibers have been exhausted.
Obviously you don't have to train until all muscle contraction is impossible but the "deeper" you go the more stress you have put on the muscle in the hopes of developing an adaptive response. As long as you are doing something that you can already do, something already easy, you are not giving your body anything to adapt to.
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But what is your definition of bodybuilding? Take enough test and tren, and you can almost eat whatever you want. Do you honestly think that all pro bodybuilders eat clean? Even coming close to a contest?
Steroids let you eat almost anything you want. A few weeks out, you might limit yourself a tad.
A few days out, you cut water a bit. Then you cut carbs, then you add in the diuretic, then you cut the water even more. Then between the prejudjing, you load up on carbs, and try not to die before the night show.
Let me ask you Shizzo how do you know these things? Because you have read them somewhere? By all means start taking everything you may find the results are not the magic pill you expect.
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Let's see if I can clear this up. This only makes sense if you believe that taxing the muscle as much as possible will stimulate an adaptive response.
Pushing yourself and squeezing as much out of the muscle as possible. And this isn't just about maximizing intensity.
When you do a one-rep max, say it's a 405 bench press, and no matter how hard you push you simply cannot get another rep. Here you have a set of maximal intensity but did you really tax your muscles to it's limit? There is the concept call "inroads", i.e., how "deep" you get into the muscle.
Sure you cannot generate another 400+ lbs of force to get that extra rep but you sure have a lot more in you. You could easily generate another 350 lbs of force, and after that another 300 lbs (these numbers are arbitrary just to make a point). If you are like Milos and his forced reps and drop sets he wants to get to a point where you can barely move the bar.
Remember, a muscle fiber contracts in a all or nothing way. It doesn't contract more or less depending upon the load. It's all or nothing and it will recruit only the fibers necessary to move the resistance and as that fiber exhaust itself other fibers will be recruited to replace it When you contract a muscle until it simply cannot contract any more then you have made the maximum amount of inroads. All available fibers have been exhausted.
Obviously you don't have to train until all muscle contraction is impossible but the "deeper" you go the more stress you have put on the muscle in the hopes of developing an adaptive response. As long as you are doing something that you can already do, something already easy, you are not giving your body anything to adapt to.
You are using Arthur Jones' definition of intensity and that is false. Intensity is actually the % of 1 rep max.
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You are using Arthur Jones' definition of intensity and that is false. Intensity is actually the % of 1 rep max.
Oh boy, here we go. Fasten seat belts...
(https://pandagif.com/downsize/eating-popcorn-vjrw8ql8yz.gif)
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You are using Arthur Jones' definition of intensity and that is false. Intensity is actually the % of 1 rep max.
No, it's not. If you do 75% of your one-rep max does that mean you are training with 75% intensity?
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No, it's not. If you do 75% of your one-rep max does that mean you are training with 75% intensity?
https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/defining-intensity-in-the-weight-room-science-of-iron.htm
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https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/defining-intensity-in-the-weight-room-science-of-iron.htm
And who exactly is Kasey Esser and why should we listen to him? People define things on the net any way they want. If you think that maximum intensity is someone completing a one-rep max as oppose to someone pushing until he drops to the ground or his muscles can no longer contract regardless of the resistance or load is fine with me. I remember trying to run as fast as I could on the Sand Dune hill (Coach and others will know what I'm talking about) until I literally collapsed on the ground. It's like I was paralyzed and couldn't move on my own volition.
If you believe doing one rep max puts the greatest stress on the muscle to stimulate an adaptive response have at it. But the fact of the matter is that it doesn't and no one, including you, does one rep max as the most optimal way towards muscle hypertrophy.
To paraphrase your previous comment, "That is Kasey Esser's definition of intensity and that is false."
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No, it's not. If you do 75% of your one-rep max does that mean you are training with 75% intensity?
You’re looking at this intensity issue from strictly a poundage perspective and I’m not sure that is correct.
If you do 6 sets of 1 rep with a weight that is 75% of your 1RM and each rep has a 15 minute break in between, that isn’t very intense.
If I do 6 reps of a weight that is 75% of my 1RM and it takes me 15 seconds, I’m working more intensely.
So if Work is measured as Force multiplied by Distance, then Intensity would have to be Work divided by Time.
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Intensity is a vague term. If you want to get more specific I believe muscle fiber recruitment percentage would be a better metric. As you move up in poundages you recruit more type 2s resulting in greater muscle contractions creating more micro tears and producing more fatigue metabolites.
The end result being an increase in power but a decrease in duration and a longer recovery time.
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I think more TUT would be needed than can be achieved doing only 1-6 reps and the weight will be so heavy on the lower rep sets that you have to concentrate more on form........ and establishing a mind/muscle connection is damn near impossible doing only a double on the bench as an example.....besides that using the low reps and maximum poundages works ligaments and tendons harder than muscle tissue IMO.....plus you don`t get as good a pump and whether you think that`s important (I DO) or not, who doesn`t like to feel a nice tight pump in their arms or chest for an example....I know I do.
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You’re looking at this intensity issue from strictly a poundage perspective and I’m not sure that is correct.
If you do 6 sets of 1 rep with a weight that is 75% of your 1RM and each rep has a 15 minute break in between, that isn’t very intense.
If I do 6 reps of a weight that is 75% of my 1RM and it takes me 15 seconds, I’m working more intensely.
So if Work is measured as Force multiplied by Distance, then Intensity would have to be Work divided by Time.
Actually, it is Humble that is defining intensity that way. I disagree with it. The amount of force being generated is not always an example of maximum intensity of effort. In fact, they are often inversely proportional to each other.
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Intensity is a vague term. If you want to get more specific I believe muscle fiber recruitment percentage would be a better metric. As you move up in poundages you recruit more type 2s resulting in greater muscle contractions creating more micro tears and producing more fatigue metabolites.
The end result being an increase in power but a decrease in duration and a longer recovery time.
Actually, you are correct. It is somewhat vague and subjective. Realistically we cannot measure the percentage of fiber recruitment. And people recruit a percentage of their total muscle fibers quite differently. That's why you have a person without much muscle development being just as strong or even stronger (in the sense of moving weight) as someone bigger and more muscular as they are able to recruit a higher percentage of their muscle fibers. But no matter how great the resistance, no one can contract 100% of their muscle at a given time. The CNS won't allow it and you would have no muscle endurance. It's been speculated that there are situations so urgent and desperate that the CNS overrides these limitations, such as when you hear stories of a mother lifting the side of a car to save her child.
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I think more TUT would be needed than can be achieved doing only 1-6 reps and the weight will be so heavy on the lower rep sets that you have to concentrate more on form........ and establishing a mind/muscle connection is damn near impossible doing only a double on the bench as an example.....besides that using the low reps and maximum poundages works ligaments and tendons harder than muscle tissue IMO.....plus you don`t get as good a pump and whether you think that`s important (I DO) or not, who doesn`t like to feel a nice tight pump in their arms or chest for an example....I know I do.
Yes, that is what I was talking about when referring to the concept of "inroads" and how "deep" you work the given muscle. When you do your one-rep max of, say, 405 on the bench, you are performing with maximum momentary exertion, i.e., you can't generate any more force by definition. But no one believes that you have worked the muscle to exhaustion. You have a lot left in you. You can easily push, say 375 lbs, and after that, 355 lbs, and so on with each addition rep "digging deeper" into the targeted muscle or muscle group. As I mentioned previously when you look at Milos' training protocol with his forced reps and drop sets, he pushes himself and his clients to a state where any additional muscular contraction is impossible. There was a video where he was straining with 5 lb laterals and if you just walked into the gym seeing that you would be puzzled. But you missed the part where he started at 50 lbs and work his way down with no rest.
There was a video where Milos was training a client doing legs. It was almost painful to watch. The amount of effort, and, yes, the intensity he squeezed out of his client was almost painful to watch. No disrespect to, IMO, the best Mr. Olympia covering every era, Dorian Yates, who was known for his intensity, but this session was much more intense than Dorian's leg day in his Blood and Guts video. When Dorian says that he KNEW, he worked harder than anybody else because it is impossible for a person to work harder to change his mind if he saw this poor soul being tortured by Milos.
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Actually, you are correct. It is somewhat vague and subjective. Realistically we cannot measure the percentage of fiber recruitment. And people recruit a percentage of their total muscle fibers quite differently. That's why you have a person without much muscle development being just as strong or even stronger (in the sense of moving weight) as someone bigger and more muscular as they are able to recruit a higher percentage of their muscle fibers. But no matter how great the resistance, no one can contract 100% of their muscle at a given time. The CNS won't allow it and you would have no muscle endurance. It's been speculated that there are situations so urgent and desperate that the CNS overrides these limitations, such as when you hear stories of a mother lifting the side of a car to save her child.
There is nothing vague or subjective about intensity at all. Your definition of intensity is "hard" so that's why it seems vague and subjective. There is an actual definition of intensity in sports science.
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There is nothing vague or subjective about intensity at all. Your definition of intensity is "hard" so that's why it seems vague and subjective. There is an actual definition of intensity in sports science.
Please state this definition and identify the source.
And the reason I believe it's subjective even using your definition of the one-rep max is how do we know that person is really generating his maximal effort doing his one-rep max? He may think he is, but if you offer him a million dollars if he did five pounds more or his crush is watching him, he might find that he really has some extra motivation and get that extra five pounds to his max. It is very common for someone to find that he is "stronger" when training with a partner or with a coach yelling at him than when training alone.
But, again, however you define it, the bottom line is, in bodybuilding, nobody is going to reach his full potential doing just one-rep max as it just doesn't tax the muscle enough.
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Please state this definition and identify the source.
And the reason I believe it's subjective even using your definition of the one-rep max is how do we know that person is really generating his maximal effort doing his one-rep max? He may think he is, but if you offer him a million dollars if he did five pounds more or his crush is watching him, he might find that he really has some extra motivation and get that extra five pounds to his max. It is very common for someone to find that he is "stronger" when training with a partner or with a coach yelling at him than when training alone.
But, again, however you define it, the bottom line is, in bodybuilding, nobody is going to reach his full potential doing just one-rep max as it just doesn't tax the muscle enough.
So a powerlifter setting world records could do 5lbs more if people are yelling at him?
Here is the actual definition clearly spelled out for you:
https://emerging-athlete.com/intensity-in-weight-training-1rm-determination/
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So a powerlifter setting world records could do 5lbs more if people are yelling at him?
When posing a situation that is very common does not mean it happens all the time and in every case. And it is not unusual for a competitive athlete to perform better during competition as more is on the line. And there is the concept of the "home court advantage". Even MMA fighters say how they get more motivated when the crowd is cheering for them. An outside stimulus has proven time and again, not all the time every time, to improve athletic and physical performance.
Now, are you able to answer the question of what exactly the sports science definition of intensity is and what is the source?
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When posing a situation that is very common does not mean it happens all the time and in every case. And it is not unusual for a competitive athlete to perform better during competition as more is on the line. And there is the concept of the "home court advantage". Even MMA fighters say how they get more motivated when the crowd is cheering for them. An outside stimulus has proven time and again, not all the time every time, to improve athletic and physical performance.
Now, are you able to answer the question of what exactly the sports science definition of intensity is and what is the source?
Check my modified post above yours.
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Yes, that is what I was talking about when referring to the concept of "inroads" and how "deep" you work the given muscle. When you do your one-rep max of, say, 405 on the bench, you are performing with maximum momentary exertion, i.e., you can't generate any more force by definition. But no one believes that you have worked the muscle to exhaustion. You have a lot left in you. You can easily push, say 375 lbs, and after that, 355 lbs, and so on with each addition rep "digging deeper" into the targeted muscle or muscle group. As I mentioned previously when you look at Milos' training protocol with his forced reps and drop sets, he pushes himself and his clients to a state where any additional muscular contraction is impossible. There was a video where he was straining with 5 lb laterals and if you just walked into the gym seeing that you would be puzzled. But you missed the part where he started at 50 lbs and work his way down with no rest.
There was a video where Milos was training a client doing legs. It was almost painful to watch. The amount of effort, and, yes, the intensity he squeezed out of his client was almost painful to watch. No disrespect to, IMO, the best Mr. Olympia covering every era, Dorian Yates, who was known for his intensity, but this session was much more intense than Dorian's leg day in his Blood and Guts video. When Dorian says that he KNEW, he worked harder than anybody else because it is impossible for a person to work harder to change his mind if he saw this poor soul being tortured by Milos.
The way Milos trained is almost how I would train generally and for most of the time.
I would do Tri-Sets,Giant-Sets,Super-Sets and also include drop sets or running the rack sets on DB Laterals or DB Curls,................very hard way to train and the muscle get fully exhausted if you do it correctly moving from exercise to exercise with no rest until the last exercise is completed.
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Check my modified post above yours.
This is not a scientific study or definition. It is an article expressing an opinion by someone who only identifies himself as "Claas", who, going by his own description, has no formal background, education, or qualifications in kinesiology and human physiology. This is all we know about his background.
Hi, I'm Claas. I am a passionate fitness and performance lover. For several years I have been training and developing my personality with dedication, ambition, and commitment to pursue my goals...
I believe the key to a happy life, to pursue your goals, overcome challenges and convert your dreams to reality, is based upon mastering our four underlying four pillars; nutrition, fitness, productivity, and mindfulness.
This is all very nice and kumbaya-ish but hardly an authoritative piece.
Nonetheless, people can define intensity any way they want. If you want to believe that I don't have a problem with it. I just don't believe it is relevant to one trying to develop muscle hypertrophy. I believe that my definition of training the muscle to exhaustion is far more effective than just measuring one's ability to generate force. In fact, you can be in a state where you are generating very little force yet have the targeted muscle performing to its absolute limit.
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The way Milos trained is almost how I would train generally and for most of the time.
I would do Tri-Sets,Giant-Sets,Super-Sets and also include drop sets or running the rack sets on DB Laterals or DB Curls,................very hard way to train and the muscle get fully exhausted if you do it correctly moving from exercise to exercise with no rest until the last exercise is completed.
Not only your muscles but your cardiovascular system as well. Arthur Jones use to say that you should combine training anaerobcally and aerobically simultaneously. Your resistance training set is the anaerobic portion and by going from one set to another without rest would be the aerobic portion.
Even if I can't go to another set immediately after I walk back and forth until I'm ready again. The idea is to keep moving. No need for a separate cardio session. You look at most oafs in the gym that brag about training for two hours everyday. They do one half-ass set that takes them about 20 seconds to complete, if that, and then they sit there for two to three minutes on their phone texting or on social media. 85% or more of their workout consist of doing nothing.
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I always went by the Vince Gironda definition of intensity:
"Doing the most work in the shortest amount of time".
If you and I were of equal strength, and both did the same exact workout, using the same exact weight on each exercise and the same reps a well, but it took you 2 hours to complete and it only took me 45 minutes, than I trained harder than you because my workout was far more intense.
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Not only your muscles but your cardiovascular system as well. Arthur Jones use to say that you should combine training anaerobcally and aerobically simultaneously. Your resistance training set is the anaerobic portion and by going from one set to another without rest would be the aerobic portion.
Even if I can't go to another set immediately after I walk back and forth until I'm ready again. The idea is to keep moving. No need for a separate cardio session. You look at most oafs in the gym that brag about training for two hours everyday. They do one half-ass set that takes them about 20 seconds to complete, if that, and then they sit there for two to three minutes on their phone texting or on social media. 85% or more of their workout consist of doing nothing.
I totally agree 100%.
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I always went by the Vince Gironda definition of intensity:
"Doing the most work in the shortest amount of time".
If you and I were of equal strength, and both did the same exact workout, using the same exact weight on each exercise and the same reps a well, but it took you 2 hours to complete and it only took me 45 minutes, than I trained harder than you because my workout was far more intense.
Spot on again! I remember high school they had set up a Nautilus facility in a Quonset hut. I was given a prescribed workout and when we were done we asked each other how long did each of us train. I said I was at it for 55 minutes. Another said his workout took 22 minutes. Being used to the notion that you can't get a good workout unless you trained for an hour and a half to two hours I scoff and said that it must not have been much of a workout when you couldn't even go for a half an hour. Once it was explained to me how he did the same exercises and the same volume I did, and I watched him train, it became clear why he was much more developed than I was and in much better condition. When I tried to go at his pace I lasted about ten minutes so that I could rest and get my breath back.
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Spot on again! I remember high school they had set up a Nautilus facility in a Quonset hut. I was given a prescribed workout and when we were done we asked each other how long did each of us train. I said I was at it for 55 minutes. Another said his workout took 22 minutes. Being used to the notion that you can't get a good workout unless you trained for an hour and a half to two hours I scoff and said that it must not have been much of a workout when you couldn't even go for a half an hour. Once it was explained to me how he did the same exercises and the same volume I did, and I watched him train, it became clear why he was much more developed than I was and in much better condition. When I tried to go at his pace I lasted about ten minutes so that I could rest and get my breath back.
When I was a kid just starting out, Dave Mastorakis was into one set each non-stop. probably because of Mentzer and Joe Mullins who just opened up the first and last Nautilus gym in the area.
Daves training partner was a guy named Ken Knapp.......real nice guy who wrote a workout out for me and my buddy Harris to follow, we were excited because Ken was huge and most likely knew the key to building your body.
When we looked at what he had written out for us, we both looked at each other and I threw the paper away.
It consisted of 8-10 excercies done to failure performing one set on each movement.
We thought he was just fucking around with us or something because what we were doing on a day to day basis 6 days a week was following Olivas or Arnolds workout rep for rep,set for set for 2-3 hours a day. ;D
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I always went by the Vince Gironda definition of intensity:
"Doing the most work in the shortest amount of time".
If you and I were of equal strength, and both did the same exact workout, using the same exact weight on each exercise and the same reps a well, but it took you 2 hours to complete and it only took me 45 minutes, than I trained harder than you because my workout was far more intense.
The biggest obstacle I have to overcome in working out is not motivation, fatigue, pain... by other people in the gym. People just sitting on equipment doing nothing and when you ask to work in they say, "I'm just about to do my set. I only have a few more left. It's not like the old day when guys welcomed you to work in, would egg you on and push you, and be there for forced reps and other intensity variables as well as for safety.
I always plan my workout and what I'm going to do. The exercises and equipment I'll be using. But I can't remember the last time I have ever completed a workout as planned. There is always someone in my way that is hogging a piece of equipment I want to us and I have to move on to something else. If doing pre-exhaust I use the "towel" method, where I put my extra towel I have just for this purpose which is to lay onto the equipment I'll be using as a way to reserve it. That is one thing people seem to obey. They won't touch a piece of equipment if they see someone's towel over it.
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When I was a kid just starting out, Dave Mastorakis was into one set each non-stop. probably because of Mentzer and Joe Mullins who just opened up the first and last Nautilus gym in the area.
Daves training partner was a guy named Ken Knapp.......real nice guy who wrote a workout out for me and my buddy Harris to follow, we were excited because Ken was huge and most likely knew the key to building your body.
When we looked at what he had written out for us, we both looked at each other and I threw the paper away.
It consisted of 8-10 excercies done to failure performing one set on each movement.
We thought he was just fucking around with us or something because what we were doing on a day to day basis 6 days a week was following Olivas or Arnolds workout rep for rep,set for set for 2-3 hours a day. ;D
Yup, just like me. Two hours six days a week. This while working a full-time job and having to do chores like laundry and grocery shopping on your one day off you had no life.
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The biggest obstacle I have to overcome in working out is not motivation, fatigue, pain... by other people in the gym. People just sitting on equipment doing nothing and when you ask to work in they say, "I'm just about to do my set. I only have a few more left. It's not like the old day when guys welcomed you to work in, would egg you on and push you, and be there for forced reps and other intensity variables as well as for safety.
I always plan my workout and what I'm going to do. The exercises and equipment I'll be using. But I can't remember the last time I have ever completed a workout as planned. There is always someone in my way that is hogging a piece of equipment I want to us and I have to move on to something else. If doing pre-exhaust I use the "towel" method, where I put my extra towel I have just for this purpose which is to lay onto the equipment I'll be using as a way to reserve it. That is one thing people seem to obey. They won't touch a piece of equipment if they see someone's towel over it.
I call those people deadwood.
I hate them but we need their money to keep the gym open.
One day I was doing Delts,a tri-set of machine presses, seated machine laterals, and I had 2 dumbells near me for bent-over laterals.
Well some old fuck jumps on the seated lateral machine and just sits there after doing a sloppy set with one plate of the weight stack.
I did my presses and I asked him if I could jump in and it would only take me a minute......something he should have asked me as the fucker saw me using both machines before he was.
Anyway, he got so pissed off at my question which I asked very politely, that he threw his fucking clipboard across the gym and then stormed out himself. ;D
I felt like fucking him up but I had changed my ways.......luckily for him. LOL ;D
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Yup, just like me. Two hours six days a week. This while working a full-time job and having to do chores like laundry and grocery shopping on your one day off you had no life.
I hear ya`....if we only knew then,what we know now.
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This is not a scientific study or definition. It is an article expressing an opinion by someone who only identifies himself as "Claas", who, going by his own description, has no formal background, education, or qualifications in kinesiology and human physiology. This is all we know about his background.
Hi, I'm Claas. I am a passionate fitness and performance lover. For several years I have been training and developing my personality with dedication, ambition, and commitment to pursue my goals...
I believe the key to a happy life, to pursue your goals, overcome challenges and convert your dreams to reality, is based upon mastering our four underlying four pillars; nutrition, fitness, productivity, and mindfulness.
This is all very nice and kumbaya-ish but hardly an authoritative piece.
Nonetheless, people can define intensity any way they want. If you want to believe that I don't have a problem with it. I just don't believe it is relevant to one trying to develop muscle hypertrophy. I believe that my definition of training the muscle to exhaustion is far more effective than just measuring one's ability to generate force. In fact, you can be in a state where you are generating very little force yet have the targeted muscle performing to its absolute limit.
I have actually posted 2 links to prove intensity has a specific meaning and you don't accept that because you believe in a pseudo scientist Arthur Jones. That is fine.
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I call those people deadwood.
I hate them but we need their money to keep the gym open.
One day I was doing Delts,a tri-set of machine presses, seated machine laterals, and I had 2 dumbells near me for bent-over laterals.
Well some old fuck jumps on the seated lateral machine and just sits there after doing a sloppy set with one plate of the weight stack.
I did my presses and I asked him if I could jump in and it would only take me a minute......something he should have asked me as the fucker saw me using both machines before he was.
Anyway, he got so pissed off at my question which I asked very politely, that he threw his fucking clipboard across the gym and then stormed out himself. ;D
I felt like fucking him up but I had changed my ways.......luckily for him. LOL ;D
That's how they are nowadays. They rather sit on the equipment texting their boyfriend rather than let you use the equipment the way it was meant to be used.
I recently stumble across this tiny gym (by today's standard) owned and operated by Chris Faildo. There's, of course, free weights, but all the machines except the leg extension and leg curl are plate loaded, so you have to actually lift the plates on and off the machine. Also, this does kind of bother me, he doesn't have enough plates to go around so you're really getting a self-imposed Farmers Walk workout during your session lugging these big plates back and forth. Also, the majority of the plates are in kilograms. They don't have a "cardio room", well they do sort of. And just a bunch of locker of to the side. No shower area so I don't have to look at these saggy old men who seem to just love to walk around naked in the locker room.
When I first saw the gym I thought, "Hmm, no cardio room, all plate loaded machines -- that pretty much eliminates the whole soccer mom crowd." I think they are the worse group because at least with men they usually will begrudgingly let you in because they don't want a confrontation and my reputation for defending Big Macs with fists and feet is well known. But with women you can't win. And no locker room so no naked men to look at.
The 24 hours gym is 3 miles from my house but I drive to a gym 12 miles away that doesn't have nearly the space and equipment as 24 does but for me it's not just about physical conditioning, it's also the mental aspect where you are more at peace with your surroundings. I always leave 24 mad and frustrated because I couldn't train the way I want to and it takes too long. Too much waiting even though I set up alternatives. And I just hate to be around so many people. At Chris' gym, it's small and there's never seem to be more than 6-10 people there. It's usually around six. So with such a small group you quickly developed the camaraderie that is almost like you had back in our day. One guy even volunteered to spot me. I almost cried as I had a Kwai Chang Caine flashback of the days of old.
Look at this. To the average person this is nothing unusual. To me, it is something I have never seen in these big box gym. All the dumbells on the rack and in their proper place. Everyone put things back where they go it.
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The locker and "Cardio room".
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I have actually posted 2 links to prove intensity has a specific meaning and you don't accept that because you believe in a pseudo scientist Arthur Jones. That is fine.
I would far more trust Arthur Jones, a genius who revolutionize resistant training equipment and principles, than "Claas" or some white coat that never lifted more than fork.
If you got two clones and one trained with just one-rep max and the other trained Arthur Jones style there would be no question who would be the better conditioned and more muscular athlete.
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I would far more trust Arthur Jones, a genius who revolutionize resistant training equipment and principles, than "Claas" or some white coat that never lifted more than fork.
If you got two clones and one trained with just one-rep max and the other trained Arthur Jones style there would be no question who would be the better conditioned and more muscular athlete.
You trust him more because he was a great con man. Revolutionized resistant training principles? How come no professional athlete trains like this? There is no NFL or NHL team that trains like Jones advocated. There is no Olympic strength coach or D1 college strength coach that trains their athletes like Jones said to train. Why?
No one said training all 1 rep maxes was the best way to train. You are confusing high intensity with the best way to train. Intensity is one component of training.
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You trust him more because he was a great con man. Revolutionized resistant training principles? How come no professional athlete trains like this? There is no NFL or NHL team that trains like Jones advocated. There is no Olympic strength coach or D1 college strength coach that trains their athletes like Jones said to train. Why?
No one said training all 1 rep maxes was the best way to train. You are confusing high intensity with the best way to train. Intensity is one component of training.
LOL @ "con man" so clueless. All the equipment you see in the gyms today stem from his original design. They all try to get as close as possible to full range movement and variable resistance. Something that wasn't even a consideration before Jones. You are probably too young to remember how primitive the equipment was before Jones. The leg extension was just a barbell hanging over a bench. You got little to no resistance at the beginning of the movement and only got the full resistance when you locked out since free weights only provided a straight downward force whereas the joints work in a rotary fashion.
And how on earth do you know how professional athletes train? Remember Dorian Yates? Sure you can argue that they don't train in the exact fashion as he espoused 40 years ago but his principles of intensity, progression, and recuperation remain the same. Yates has stated many times how his training was based on Jones and Mentzer. He almost bragged about how he did just one work set per exercise and spent far less time in the gym than his competition. Back when I was a kid now one talked about rest and recovery. It was always more sets, more frequency. The idea of training a body part one day a week was unheard of. And the majority of NFL teams incorporated Nautilus machines in their gyms when they first came out because of Jones. Now they have variations and improvements on his design again trying to incorporate variable resistance to match a human's strength curve alone with full range motion.
And I'm not "confusing" anything. The best, or to be more precise, the optimal way to train is the whole point of all this.
You ignored the question of the two clones. Who would be more muscular and in better athletic condition? Let's see if you have the intellectual courage to address that hypothetical and the reasons for it. Are we having this discussion for ego or for greater knowledge?
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That's how they are nowadays. They rather sit on the equipment texting their boyfriend rather than let you use the equipment the way it was meant to be used.
I recently stumble across this tiny gym (by today's standard) owned and operated by Chris Faildo. There's, of course, free weights, but all the machines except the leg extension and leg curl are plate loaded, so you have to actually lift the plates on and off the machine. Also, this does kind of bother me, he doesn't have enough plates to go around so you're really getting a self-imposed Farmers Walk workout during your session lugging these big plates back and forth. Also, the majority of the plates are in kilograms. They don't have a "cardio room", well they do sort of. And just a bunch of locker of to the side. No shower area so I don't have to look at these saggy old men who seem to just love to walk around naked in the locker room.
When I first saw the gym I thought, "Hmm, no cardio room, all plate loaded machines -- that pretty much eliminates the whole soccer mom crowd." I think they are the worse group because at least with men they usually will begrudgingly let you in because they don't want a confrontation and my reputation for defending Big Macs with fists and feet is well known. But with women you can't win. And no locker room so no naked men to look at.
The 24 hours gym is 3 miles from my house but I drive to a gym 12 miles away that doesn't have nearly the space and equipment as 24 does but for me it's not just about physical conditioning, it's also the mental aspect where you are more at peace with your surroundings. I always leave 24 mad and frustrated because I couldn't train the way I want to and it takes too long. Too much waiting even though I set up alternatives. And I just hate to be around so many people. At Chris' gym, it's small and there's never seem to be more than 6-10 people there. It's usually around six. So with such a small group you quickly developed the camaraderie that is almost like you had back in our day. One guy even volunteered to spot me. I almost cried as I had a Kwai Chang Caine flashback of the days of old.
Look at this. To the average person this is nothing unusual. To me, it is something I have never seen in these big box gym. All the dumbells on the rack and in their proper place. Everyone put things back where they go it.
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LOL @ "con man" so clueless. All the equipment you see in the gyms today stem from his original design. They all try to get as close as possible to full range movement and variable resistance. Something that wasn't even a consideration before Jones. You are probably too young to remember how primitive the equipment was before Jones. The leg extension was just a barbell hanging over a bench. You got little to no resistance at the beginning of the movement and only got the full resistance when you locked out since free weights only provided a straight downward force whereas the joints work in a rotary fashion.
And how on earth do you know how professional athletes train? Remember Dorian Yates? Sure you can argue that they don't train in the exact fashion as he espoused 40 years ago but his principles of intensity, progression, and recuperation remain the same. Yates has stated many times how his training was based on Jones and Mentzer. He almost bragged about how he did just one work set per exercise and spent far less time in the gym than his competition. Back when I was a kid now one talked about rest and recovery. It was always more sets, more frequency. The idea of training a body part one day a week was unheard of. And the majority of NFL teams incorporated Nautilus machines in their gyms when they first came out because of Jones. Now they have variations and improvements on his design again trying to incorporate variable resistance to match a human's strength curve alone with full range motion.
And I'm not "confusing" anything. The best, or to be more precise, the optimal way to train is the whole point of all this.
You ignored the question of the two clones. Who would be more muscular and in better athletic condition? Let's see if you have the intellectual courage to address that hypothetical and the reasons for it. Are we having this discussion for ego or for greater knowledge?
I absolutely know how strength coaches train their athletes. It's not a secret and it's nothing like Jones advocated. Yates and Mentzer (the two poster boys for HIT) didn't train like Jones advocated either.
The clone who trained in Jones' system would be inferior to any well thought out training program. Again, I never said a person should train all 1 rep maxes. Where did you get that idea? I said someone training all 1 rep maxes would be training more intensely. You don't even understand the difference. Intensity is one component of training. A person can train with high volume and low intensity and still have a greater work load and will build more muscle.
Question: If you take a 5lb dumbbell and do over 100 reps until failure is that an intense set?
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Watching Pellius debate someone...
(https://bestgifs.makeagif.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/ezgif.com-gif-maker-43.gif)
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I absolutely know how strength coaches train their athletes. It's not a secret and it's nothing like Jones advocated. Yates and Mentzer (the two poster boys for HIT) didn't train like Jones advocated either.
The clone who trained in Jones' system would be inferior to any well thought out training program. Again, I never said a person should train all 1 rep maxes. Where did you get that idea? I said someone training all 1 rep maxes would be training more intensely. You don't even understand the difference. Intensity is one component of training. A person can train with high volume and low intensity and still have a greater work load and will build more muscle.
Question: If you take a 5lb dumbbell and do over 100 reps until failure is that an intense set?
I made it crystal clear that no one trains exactly like Jones, or anyone else for that matter. I made it crystal clear it's the principles that Jones advocated: intensity, frequency, variable resistance, full range movement... And not the exact program he advocated 40 years ago. It always cracks me up when people like you say Dorian and Mentzer didn't train exactly like Jones advocated when both had made it crystal clear that their methods were based on Jones` training principles. Both wanted to separate themselves from what others were doing and constantly called attention to it. Along with other factors, the main ones they advocated was intensity and how much less time they spent in the gym than their competition.
And you know ABSOLUTELY how athletes are trained? How? Who are you? What makes you such an expert? And just because the majority does something doesn't automatically mean it's the right or best thing to do.
And of course, just as I predicted, you couldn't answer simple straight forward question and had to change the terms to "a well-thought out" program. You can't because you know, and I know, and everybody else knows what the answer is and you don't want to state it because it is the one I advocate. That is proof positive that you are motivated more by your ego than finding out the truth.
Now, you just ask me a simple straight forward question and I will answer in a simple and straight forward manner as befitting a man who is more concerned with the truth and not afraid of being proved wrong.
If a person does a 100 reps to failure with a five pound dumbbell, meaning that a 101th rep is impossible despite his best effort then yes,
I would consider that an intense set.
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You know what is more important than the angle you do you side laterals or the rep scheme you use in the gym? Food motherfucking food eat more
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You know what is more important than the angle you do you side laterals or the rep scheme you use in the gym? Food motherfucking food eat more
I like your tenacity and hope against hope that someday you will make an intelligent post.
I do have a personal question and I understand if you are too embarrassed to answer: Because you live a life of privilege and are completely provided for how do you find meaning in your life? Is that why you are so concerned about the way your body looks and at 43 years of age the most important thing to you, your noble quest (as you describe it) is getting bigger muscles?
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I made it crystal clear that no one trains exactly like Jones, or anyone else for that matter. I made it crystal clear it's the principles that Jones advocated: intensity, frequency, variable resistance, full range movement... And not the exact program he advocated 40 years ago. It always cracks me up when people like you say Dorian and Mentzer didn't train exactly like Jones advocated when both had made it crystal clear that their methods were based on Jones` training principles. Both wanted to separate themselves from what others were doing and constantly called attention to it. Along with other factors, the main ones they advocated was intensity and how much less time they spent in the gym than their competition.
And you know ABSOLUTELY how athletes are trained? How? Who are you? What makes you such an expert? And just because the majority does something doesn't automatically mean it's the right or best thing to do.
And of course, just as I predicted, you couldn't answer simple straight forward question and had to change the terms to "a well-thought out" program. You can't because you know, and I know, and everybody else knows what the answer is and you don't want to state it because it is the one I advocate. That is proof positive that you are motivated more by your ego than finding out the truth.
Now, you just ask me a simple straight forward question and I will answer in a simple and straight forward manner as befitting a man who is more concerned with the truth and not afraid of being proved wrong.
If a person does a 100 reps to failure with a five pound dumbbell, meaning that a 101th rep is impossible despite his best effort then yes,
I would consider that an intense set.
Mentzer had his guys training once every 3 weeks at the end of his life which is idiocy. Dorian had to retire because he was tearing something almost every workout. Sisco and Little actually advocated training every 6 months for gains!!! (S)HIT training just gets more and more ridiculous as the years go by.
I know that no strength trainer of any professional or D1 team trains their athletes that way. You can look up the training programs for Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, Oklahoma, USC, etc, etc and see their training programs. Feel free to post an NFL or D1 college team that practices HIT.
The fact that you believe a set of 101 reps is intense shows you have no idea what you are talking about. No strength coach anywhere thinks this. Since you know more than literally every coach on planet Earth you should get hired to design strength programs. The teams you train would crush every other team.
Jones was selling his Nautilus machines and his whole program was based around that. He designed the program so that each person would go from machine to machine and be done in 20 minutes and out the door. Gym owners loved this because it got people in and out of the gym quickly and trainees loved it because the workouts were short plus they felt they were doing more "scientific" training with machines. Jones' "scientific" results were never replicated by any independent researchers. Jones would just say that's because other people were too stupid to test things correctly.
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I like your tenacity and hope against hope that someday you will make an intelligent post.
I do have a personal question and I understand if you are too embarrassed to answer: Because you live a life of privilege and are completely provided for how do you find meaning in your life? Is that why you are so concerned about the way your body looks and at 43 years of age the most important thing to you, your noble quest (as you describe it) is getting bigger muscles?
;D
He will make one by accident at some point..
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;D
He will make one by accident at some point..
Do you agree with Pellius that a 5lb dumbbell trained to failure is an intense set?
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Do you agree with Pellius that a 5lb dumbbell trained to failure is an intense set?
Only if you are wearing one of these.
(https://www.washingtonian.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/2012-5-30-Mouthguard.jpg)
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Only if you are wearing one of these.
(https://www.washingtonian.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/2012-5-30-Mouthguard.jpg)
:D
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That's how they are nowadays. They rather sit on the equipment texting their boyfriend rather than let you use the equipment the way it was meant to be used.
I recently stumble across this tiny gym (by today's standard) owned and operated by Chris Faildo. There's, of course, free weights, but all the machines except the leg extension and leg curl are plate loaded, so you have to actually lift the plates on and off the machine. Also, this does kind of bother me, he doesn't have enough plates to go around so you're really getting a self-imposed Farmers Walk workout during your session lugging these big plates back and forth. Also, the majority of the plates are in kilograms. They don't have a "cardio room", well they do sort of. And just a bunch of locker of to the side. No shower area so I don't have to look at these saggy old men who seem to just love to walk around naked in the locker room.
When I first saw the gym I thought, "Hmm, no cardio room, all plate loaded machines -- that pretty much eliminates the whole soccer mom crowd." I think they are the worse group because at least with men they usually will begrudgingly let you in because they don't want a confrontation and my reputation for defending Big Macs with fists and feet is well known. But with women you can't win. And no locker room so no naked men to look at.
The 24 hours gym is 3 miles from my house but I drive to a gym 12 miles away that doesn't have nearly the space and equipment as 24 does but for me it's not just about physical conditioning, it's also the mental aspect where you are more at peace with your surroundings. I always leave 24 mad and frustrated because I couldn't train the way I want to and it takes too long. Too much waiting even though I set up alternatives. And I just hate to be around so many people. At Chris' gym, it's small and there's never seem to be more than 6-10 people there. It's usually around six. So with such a small group you quickly developed the camaraderie that is almost like you had back in our day. One guy even volunteered to spot me. I almost cried as I had a Kwai Chang Caine flashback of the days of old.
Look at this. To the average person this is nothing unusual. To me, it is something I have never seen in these big box gym. All the dumbells on the rack and in their proper place. Everyone put things back where they go it.
Looks cool......I`d train there in a heartbeat.
Do you ever see Chris Faildo there?
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Do you agree with Pellius that a 5lb dumbbell trained to failure is an intense set?
Only the 789th rep would be.
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I like your tenacity and hope against hope that someday you will make an intelligent post.
I got a legit LOL out of this one. ;D
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I got a legit LOL out of this one. ;D
Might have gone over Bhank's head.
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Might have gone over Bhank's head.
Nothing goes over that head.
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Might have gone over Bhank's head.
More than likely !!
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Nothing goes over that head.
;D
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Mentzer had his guys training once every 3 weeks at the end of his life which is idiocy. Dorian had to retire because he was tearing something almost every workout. Sisco and Little actually advocated training every 6 months for gains!!! (S)HIT training just gets more and more ridiculous as the years go by.
I know that no strength trainer of any professional or D1 team trains their athletes that way. You can look up the training programs for Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, Oklahoma, USC, etc, etc and see their training programs. Feel free to post an NFL or D1 college team that practices HIT.
The fact that you believe a set of 101 reps is intense shows you have no idea what you are talking about. No strength coach anywhere thinks this. Since you know more than literally every coach on planet Earth you should get hired to design strength programs. The teams you train would crush every other team.
Jones was selling his Nautilus machines and his whole program was based around that. He designed the program so that each person would go from machine to machine and be done in 20 minutes and out the door. Gym owners loved this because it got people in and out of the gym quickly and trainees loved it because the workouts were short plus they felt they were doing more "scientific" training with machines. Jones' "scientific" results were never replicated by any independent researchers. Jones would just say that's because other people were too stupid to test things correctly.
I can see my arguments are a bit over your head so I will further clarify.
You have to distinguish between an actual workout routine and the HIT principles. Yes, Mentzer, I believe went overboard. I am reluctant to discount him completely because I have no empirical evidence. It seemed so counterintuitive that it wasn't worth experimenting with. Nonetheless, he still abided by the HIT principles: intensity, frequency, duration... it is how these principles are applies that varies widely.
Yes, Dorian retired not just because of injuries as he kept on competing even after his muscle tear. He, himself, stated that he just lost the drive and desire -- a condition quite common with many, if not most, of the professional athletes. And just because he injured himself does not mean he didn't follow the HIT principles. I don't see the connection. And Humble (may I call you "Humble" for sake of brevity?), if you want to have a serious discussion please refrain from hyperbole. It doesn't help your argument but only damages your credibility. Dorian wasn't, "tearing something almost every workout." Nobody, even you, believe that.
You keep bringing up NFL teams and their training. For one thing, this is not what we are debating. We are debating intensity. Furthermore, because something is in widespread use or practice doesn't in and of itself prove its validity. This is what I mean when I say it seems this subject is getting to a level a bit over your head. You're just throwing things on the wall hoping something will stick.
You make the blanket statement that I don't know what I am talking about and you presume you can speak for ALL strength coaches, yet offer no evidence, explanation, or argument to support this charge. Just an emotional-based accusation. You seem to not understand that there is often a case where force generated and intensity of effort are inversely proportional. The lower the force generated the higher the intensity.
Jones machines were designed as an improvement over the barbell. He didn't have to "con" anybody as it was obvious to a thinking person. Just compare a typical barbell movement with the Nautilus version. Look at, say, the barbell curl. You get no resistance at the beginning of the movement and the resistance starts to increase as you curl the bar. The resistance is limited to only a downward movement. With the Nautilus machine, you can see, because of its rotary design, which is how your joints move, that you get resistance throughout the full range of motion, and with the cam design try to emulate the strength curve of the movement. Now when I say this is superior it assumes one believes that full range, rotary, variable resistance are important factors. I will admit that I don't know if it really matters in the real world. Would Arnold have developed even bigger biceps if he substituted the barbell curl with the Nautilus curl. We will never know for sure.
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Looks cool......I`d train there in a heartbeat.
Do you ever see Chris Faildo there?
He's there every day. Still training like he's prepping. Still pushing himself. Still eating out of a Tupperware container (I can see Joswift shaking his head).
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He's there every day. Still training like he's prepping. Still pushing himself. Still eating out of a Tupperware container (I can see Joswift shaking his head).
Cool......he always looked fucking great.
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I like your tenacity and hope against hope that someday you will make an intelligent post.
You know had bad it hurts to compliment you but this is fantastic ;D
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I like your tenacity and hope against hope that someday you will make an intelligent post.
Oh my.
Love that.
Hi Pellius ! 🙋♀️
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You know had bad it hurts to compliment you but this is fantastic ;D
Well, you know what they say, "A broken clock...blah, blah, blah"
Good to see you back. I worry about you. You know, with the drinking problem and all. Missed those changing room body shots. They do have the best lighting.
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Oh my.
Love that.
Hi Pellius ! 🙋♀️
Always good to see your name pop up on this board. People start behaving themselves.
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I can see my arguments are a bit over your head so I will further clarify.
You have to distinguish between an actual workout routine and the HIT principles. Yes, Mentzer, I believe went overboard. I am reluctant to discount him completely because I have no empirical evidence. It seemed so counterintuitive that it wasn't worth experimenting with. Nonetheless, he still abided by the HIT principles: intensity, frequency, duration... it is how these principles are applies that varies widely.
Yes, Dorian retired not just because of injuries as he kept on competing even after his muscle tear. He, himself, stated that he just lost the drive and desire -- a condition quite common with many, if not most, of the professional athletes. And just because he injured himself does not mean he didn't follow the HIT principles. I don't see the connection. And Humble (may I call you "Humble" for sake of brevity?), if you want to have a serious discussion please refrain from hyperbole. It doesn't help your argument but only damages your credibility. Dorian wasn't, "tearing something almost every workout." Nobody, even you, believe that.
You keep bringing up NFL teams and their training. For one thing, this is not what we are debating. We are debating intensity. Furthermore, because something is in widespread use or practice doesn't in and of itself prove its validity. This is what I mean when I say it seems this subject is getting to a level a bit over your head. You're just throwing things on the wall hoping something will stick.
You make the blanket statement that I don't know what I am talking about and you presume you can speak for ALL strength coaches, yet offer no evidence, explanation, or argument to support this charge. Just an emotional-based accusation. You seem to not understand that there is often a case where force generated and intensity of effort are inversely proportional. The lower the force generated the higher the intensity.
Jones machines were designed as an improvement over the barbell. He didn't have to "con" anybody as it was obvious to a thinking person. Just compare a typical barbell movement with the Nautilus version. Look at, say, the barbell curl. You get no resistance at the beginning of the movement and the resistance starts to increase as you curl the bar. The resistance is limited to only a downward movement. With the Nautilus machine, you can see, because of its rotary design, which is how your joints move, that you get resistance throughout the full range of motion, and with the cam design try to emulate the strength curve of the movement. Now when I say this is superior it assumes one believes that full range, rotary, variable resistance are important factors. I will admit that I don't know if it really matters in the real world. Would Arnold have developed even bigger biceps if he substituted the barbell curl with the Nautilus curl. We will never know for sure.
My argument was about intensity. I have offered evidence by strength coaches proving my point. Here is a bodybuilding trainer spelling it out for you.
Factor #6 TRAINING SESSION VOLUME and INTENSITY
These two factors play a major role in any
weight training program. Traditionally, training
volume is emphasized by bodybuilders who want
to maximize muscle size. Intensity is emphasized
by power lifters, or strength-oriented athletes.
Training volume can be defined basically as the
measure of total weight being lifted in a workout.
It is determined by multiplying the weight being lifted by the repetitions and number of sets
performed together (Volume = weight ∞ reps
∞ sets). For example, if you bench-pressed 175
pounds for 5 sets of 8 repetitions each your total
volume would be:
EXAMPLE
175 lbs. x 8 reps x 5 sets = 7,000 lbs.
Intensity, on the other hand, measures the average weight lifted during a workout. Intensity
is determined by dividing the volume of weight lifted in a session by the total number of repetitions performed. For example:
EXAMPLE B
First Set: 225 lbs. x 10 reps = 2,250 lbs.
Second Set: 275 lbs. x 6 reps = 1,650 lbs.
Third Set: 325 lbs. x 4 reps = 1,300 lbs.
Total Volume = 5,200 lbs.
Total Intensity = 5,200 lbs. 20 reps = 260 lbs.
Total intensity for the first example (A) equals 175 lbs. simply because the same weight was
used for each set.
The definition of high-intensity training became confused by many during the 1980s. Some
26 BIG BEYOND BELIEF
misunderstood that “high-intensity” training meant you were putting out more effort or “training harder.” This in incorrect. In fact, if you were to duplicate the above workouts you might
well find the higher volume workout to be much more strenuous and difficult to perform than
the higher “intensity” session.
On the other hand, do not make the mistake of thinking that you could gain maximum muscle
growth by performing endless repetitions with little or no weight (no volume). This would essentially amount to calisthenics and we know this would not build a high-degree of muscle.
Understand that the terms volume and intensity are relative and our Training Model dictates
that a proper combination of both be used. As you will discover upon integrating the Big
Beyond Belief workouts, volume and intensity must be strategically adjusted over time. This
is accomplished through the application of micro-periodization, hyperacceleration, and hyperadaptation. These techniques will be explained later in this chapter.
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One more citation on exercise intensity from Wikipedia:
Intensity, volume, and frequency
Three important variables of strength training are intensity, volume, and frequency. Intensity refers to the amount of work required to achieve the activity and is proportional to the mass of the weights being lifted. Volume refers to the number of muscles worked, exercises, sets, and reps during a single session. Frequency refers to how many training sessions are performed per week.
These variables are important because they are all mutually conflicting, as the muscle only has so much strength and endurance, and takes time to recover due to microtrauma. Increasing one by any significant amount necessitates the decrease of the other two, e.g. increasing weight means a reduction of reps, and will require more recovery time and therefore fewer workouts per week. Trying to push too much intensity, volume and frequency will result in overtraining, and eventually lead to injury and other health issues such as chronic soreness and general lethargy, illness or even acute trauma such as avulsion fractures. A high-medium-low formula can be used to avoid overtraining, with either intensity, volume, or frequency being high, one of the others being medium, and the other being low. One example of this training strategy can be found in the following chart:
Type High Med Low
Intensity (% of 1RM) 80–100% 40–70% 0–40%
Volume (per muscle) 3+ exercises 2 exercises 1 exercises
Sets 4+ sets 2–3 sets 1 set
Reps 20+ reps 8–15 reps 1–6 reps
Session frequency 4+ p/w 2–3 p/w 1 p/w
Notice in the chart what the specific definition is for intensity. Intensity is the % of 1 rep max. Exactly what I said at the beginning of this silly argument. The full Wikipedia article is here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength_training#Intensity,_volume,_and_frequency
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Always good to see your name pop up on this board. People start behaving themselves.
Sent you a pic showing off my Power Clean “prowess”.
🤣
Let me know how your knee is coming along.
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How many pages have you guys spent arguing over subjective terms?
Let me break all this which is the best way to train rocket science bullshit down.
All training works stop doing multivariable quadratic equations and just go to the damn gym
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How many pages have you guys spent arguing over subjective terms?
Let me break all this which is the best way to train rocket science bullshit down.
All training works stop doing multivariable quadratic equations and just go to the damn gym
I recall hearing Brad Schoenfled on podcast. He’s done several studies on hypertrophy. He found at the difference between 20 reps and 6-8 rep sets very small.
It’s really about getting some regular volume with somewhat challenging resistance.
You hear this a lot in distance running, whether it’s better to do 8x 400m or 4x 800 when it’s basically the same thing.
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How many pages have you guys spent arguing over subjective terms?
Let me break all this which is the best way to train rocket science bullshit down.
All training works stop doing multivariable quadratic equations and just go to the damn gym
Because it is not a subjective term. You are confusing intensity with best way to train. It has nothing to do with one way being better than another. Intensity has a specific meaning in strength science and it is: % of 1 rep max.
Bro science has bastardized the term intensity to mean "good workout," "hard work," "training to failure," etc, etc.
A trainer can have a very low intensity, high volume workout and still have a hard workout or a good workout. A person can train very high volume to failure with the set being very low intensity.
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I recall hearing Brad Schoenfled on podcast.
https://www.instagram.com/p/COg0asYNgzV/?utm_medium=copy_link
What a sissy. ::) :D
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https://www.instagram.com/p/COg0asYNgzV/?utm_medium=copy_link
What a sissy. ::) :D
Haha the rep he hit “failure” after didn’t even slow down
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Haha the rep he hit “failure” after didn’t even slow down
And hev just stood up as opposed to hitting the last rep.
Then these fool wonder why they make no gains.
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One more citation on exercise intensity from Wikipedia:
Intensity, volume, and frequency
Three important variables of strength training are intensity, volume, and frequency. Intensity refers to the amount of work required to achieve the activity and is proportional to the mass of the weights being lifted. Volume refers to the number of muscles worked, exercises, sets, and reps during a single session. Frequency refers to how many training sessions are performed per week.
These variables are important because they are all mutually conflicting, as the muscle only has so much strength and endurance, and takes time to recover due to microtrauma. Increasing one by any significant amount necessitates the decrease of the other two, e.g. increasing weight means a reduction of reps, and will require more recovery time and therefore fewer workouts per week. Trying to push too much intensity, volume and frequency will result in overtraining, and eventually lead to injury and other health issues such as chronic soreness and general lethargy, illness or even acute trauma such as avulsion fractures. A high-medium-low formula can be used to avoid overtraining, with either intensity, volume, or frequency being high, one of the others being medium, and the other being low. One example of this training strategy can be found in the following chart:
Type High Med Low
Intensity (% of 1RM) 80–100% 40–70% 0–40%
Volume (per muscle) 3+ exercises 2 exercises 1 exercises
Sets 4+ sets 2–3 sets 1 set
Reps 20+ reps 8–15 reps 1–6 reps
Session frequency 4+ p/w 2–3 p/w 1 p/w
Notice in the chart what the specific definition is for intensity. Intensity is the % of 1 rep max. Exactly what I said at the beginning of this silly argument. The full Wikipedia article is here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength_training#Intensity,_volume,_and_frequency
OK, now we are going into Flat Earth, David Icke -- reptilian hybrid territory. This is a jump the shark moment. I think my reputation is well known that I take debates seriously (maybe too seriously) and take it to the bitter agonizing end. But if I am suspect or believe that I am just debating a unrepentant and hopelessly irrational person then I will concede. It's pointless debating a nut case. (BTW, aren't you a Holocaust denier? Correct me if I am wrong because I know there are a few here that bitterly resent for my rabid support of Israel and the Jewish people).
Anyway, in regard to your sources. You keep talking about "every strength coach". Who exactly and how are you so intimate with their training protocol? The way you speak you present yourself as some authority with real hands-on experience working with professional athletes like Coach.
And I notice you did a bit of cherry-picking on Wikipedia. When I wiki-ed intensity they gave me this definition:
Intensity is the amount of physical power (expressed as a percentage of the maximal oxygen consumption) that the body uses when performing an activity. For example, exercise intensity defines how hard the body has to work to walk a mile in 20 minutes.
This is measured in units of METs which for our purposed doesn't have to be defined in detail only that it can be used as a comparison to various activities. And this what this article does. It starts with sleep, walking, jogging, and so on with the increase in METs corresponding to the amount of physical effort, the V02, i.e. oygen consumption.
Nothing is said about weights or resistance.
Remember, pretty much anybody can post a write-up on Wiki. It is not surprising that the explanation that you cut and pasted for our edification, if not amusement, came with this disclaimer:
[iThis article needs more medical references for verification or relies too heavily on primary sources. Please review the contents of the article and add the appropriate references if you can. Unsourced or poorly sourced material may be challenged and removed.[/i]
For a more concise definition of intensity, we can refer to the National Academy of Sports Medicine:
Training intensity refers to the level of effort a person exerts during exercise relative to his or her maximum effort."
Note how they make reference to absolute intensity and relative intensity.
"relative to his or her maximum."
For example, if Shizzo and I run a mile in 8 minutes. The absolute intensity would be the same. Distance covered during a specific time frame is the same. But relative intensity would be quite different. Shizzo would be wheezing and near collapse trying to complete that mile while I'll do it while being on my cell phone watching "The Simpsons" reruns.
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My argument was about intensity. I have offered evidence by strength coaches proving my point. Here is a bodybuilding trainer spelling it out for you.
Factor #6 TRAINING SESSION VOLUME and INTENSITY
These two factors play a major role in any
weight training program. Traditionally, training
volume is emphasized by bodybuilders who want
to maximize muscle size. Intensity is emphasized
by power lifters, or strength-oriented athletes.
Training volume can be defined basically as the
measure of total weight being lifted in a workout.
It is determined by multiplying the weight being lifted by the repetitions and number of sets
performed together (Volume = weight ∞ reps
∞ sets). For example, if you bench-pressed 175
pounds for 5 sets of 8 repetitions each your total
volume would be:
EXAMPLE
175 lbs. x 8 reps x 5 sets = 7,000 lbs.
Intensity, on the other hand, measures the average weight lifted during a workout. Intensity
is determined by dividing the volume of weight lifted in a session by the total number of repetitions performed. For example:
EXAMPLE B
First Set: 225 lbs. x 10 reps = 2,250 lbs.
Second Set: 275 lbs. x 6 reps = 1,650 lbs.
Third Set: 325 lbs. x 4 reps = 1,300 lbs.
Total Volume = 5,200 lbs.
Total Intensity = 5,200 lbs. 20 reps = 260 lbs.
Total intensity for the first example (A) equals 175 lbs. simply because the same weight was
used for each set.
The definition of high-intensity training became confused by many during the 1980s. Some
26 BIG BEYOND BELIEF
misunderstood that “high-intensity” training meant you were putting out more effort or “training harder.” This in incorrect. In fact, if you were to duplicate the above workouts you might
well find the higher volume workout to be much more strenuous and difficult to perform than
the higher “intensity” session.
On the other hand, do not make the mistake of thinking that you could gain maximum muscle
growth by performing endless repetitions with little or no weight (no volume). This would essentially amount to calisthenics and we know this would not build a high-degree of muscle.
Understand that the terms volume and intensity are relative and our Training Model dictates
that a proper combination of both be used. As you will discover upon integrating the Big
Beyond Belief workouts, volume and intensity must be strategically adjusted over time. This
is accomplished through the application of micro-periodization, hyperacceleration, and hyperadaptation. These techniques will be explained later in this chapter.
This is utter nonsense. I can't see how a rational person is unable to see all the holes in this argument.
First off, what coaches have provided evidence? I've read nothing but opinions. My definition, through Wiki, measures actual V02 max. Please post these coaches' names and their proof.
Although I can go into much further detail and continue to torture others Matt Canning style I'll try to be concise and just address this one statement with the assumption others have completely read your post so I don't have to get into detail.
"Total intensity for the first example (A) equals 175 lbs. simply because the same weight was used for each set."
So "175 lbs. x 8 reps x 5 sets = 7,000 lbs" is the formula used to measure a person's exact level of intensity. That's it. An irrefutable mathematical law. Nothing is said about the time involved. Are those five sets done in 5 minutes or in 50 minutes. Does it matter? What about absolute versus relative intensity. If Shizzo performs that feat in 15 minutes and prime Keven Levrone does the exact same are you going to argue that they both trained with the same absolute intensity?
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Sent you a pic showing off my Power Clean “prowess”.
🤣
Let me know how your knee is coming along.
As mentioned in my reply, I was hoping for a motion-packed video, but from the picture your form looks flawless. Cool straps. I also mentioned that I am not a big fan of explosive-type movements. That is when you are far more prone to injury and you are not working your muscles throughout its full range, i.e, continuous tension. A lot of force in the beginning of the movement and then momentum takes over with little muscle contraction. It's the difference between velocity and acceleration. Press your fist against a brick wall as hard as you can versus punching that brick wall as hard as you can. What is more likely to break your hand?
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How many pages have you guys spent arguing over subjective terms?
Let me break all this which is the best way to train rocket science bullshit down.
All training works stop doing multivariable quadratic equations and just go to the damn gym
Some of us have moved out of our mom's house a long time ago and have to work for a living. In other words, some of us have become adults.
Does your mom give your allowance on a weekly or monthly schedule?
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This is utter nonsense. I can't see how a rational person is unable to see all the holes in this argument.
First off, what coaches have provided evidence? I've read nothing but opinions. My definition, through Wiki, measures actual V02 max. Please post these coaches' names and their proof.
Although I can go into much further detail and continue to torture others Matt Canning style I'll try to be concise and just address this one statement with the assumption others have completely read your post so I don't have to get into detail.
"Total intensity for the first example (A) equals 175 lbs. simply because the same weight was used for each set."
So "175 lbs. x 8 reps x 5 sets = 7,000 lbs" is the formula used to measure a person's exact level of intensity. That's it. An irrefutable mathematical law. Nothing is said about the time involved. Are those five sets done in 5 minutes or in 50 minutes. Does it matter? What about absolute versus relative intensity. If Shizzo performs that feat in 15 minutes and prime Keven Levrone does the exact same are you going to argue that they both trained with the same absolute intensity?
I used Leo Costa's example because he is a bodybuilder and not a lifter. I used examples of lifters earlier. This example is how they register intensity as do strength coaches. You can believe anything you want.
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OK, now we are going into Flat Earth, David Icke -- reptilian hybrid territory. This is a jump the shark moment. I think my reputation is well known that I take debates seriously (maybe too seriously) and take it to the bitter agonizing end. But if I am suspect or believe that I am just debating a unrepentant and hopelessly irrational person then I will concede. It's pointless debating a nut case. (BTW, aren't you a Holocaust denier? Correct me if I am wrong because I know there are a few here that bitterly resent for my rabid support of Israel and the Jewish people).
Anyway, in regard to your sources. You keep talking about "every strength coach". Who exactly and how are you so intimate with their training protocol? The way you speak you present yourself as some authority with real hands-on experience working with professional athletes like Coach.
And I notice you did a bit of cherry-picking on Wikipedia. When I wiki-ed intensity they gave me this definition:
Intensity is the amount of physical power (expressed as a percentage of the maximal oxygen consumption) that the body uses when performing an activity. For example, exercise intensity defines how hard the body has to work to walk a mile in 20 minutes.
This is measured in units of METs which for our purposed doesn't have to be defined in detail only that it can be used as a comparison to various activities. And this what this article does. It starts with sleep, walking, jogging, and so on with the increase in METs corresponding to the amount of physical effort, the V02, i.e. oygen consumption.
Nothing is said about weights or resistance.
Remember, pretty much anybody can post a write-up on Wiki. It is not surprising that the explanation that you cut and pasted for our edification, if not amusement, came with this disclaimer:
[iThis article needs more medical references for verification or relies too heavily on primary sources. Please review the contents of the article and add the appropriate references if you can. Unsourced or poorly sourced material may be challenged and removed.[/i]
For a more concise definition of intensity, we can refer to the National Academy of Sports Medicine:
Training intensity refers to the level of effort a person exerts during exercise relative to his or her maximum effort."
Note how they make reference to absolute intensity and relative intensity.
"relative to his or her maximum."
For example, if Shizzo and I run a mile in 8 minutes. The absolute intensity would be the same. Distance covered during a specific time frame is the same. But relative intensity would be quite different. Shizzo would be wheezing and near collapse trying to complete that mile while I'll do it while being on my cell phone watching "The Simpsons" reruns.
My example on Wikipedia has over 50 footnotes to research. The chart specifically is dealing with intensity in strength training. Your example is dealing with VO2 max not strength intensity.
I have provided example after example of the definition of intensity. All you do is throw insults and back nothing up with anything other than your opinion.
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Some of us have moved out of our mom's house a long time ago and have to work for a living. In other words, some of us have become adults.
Does your mom give your allowance on a weekly or monthly schedule?
I paid cash for my house. It is the 6th home I have purchased. Have you ever heard of K.I.S.S?? You are all making this way too complicated. Keep it Simple Stupid
Most of the so called experts you all quote like rocket scientist were just gym rats trying to sell something. Menzter and HIT was just an advertisement for Arthur Jones to sell gym equipment none of the so called experiments were real they were all setup like before and after pics and you guys act like it was Nasa engineering 40 years later
Guys talking about 1 working set not mentioning the 5 warm up sets they did going super heavy high intensity and destroying your CNS every workout is not productive
You know how you can tell when someone doesn't know what they are talkign about they start mentioning studies with Mentzer and Jones form the 1970's or they pull out a godamn notebook in the gym to write down every rep why not bring a 10 key calculator so you can get exactly 72.369 percentage of your last lift?? And percentage of your max? Your max changes daily. At a certain point you need to listen to what is going on inside your body and not rely on outside books and calculations
Do what you can then go home eat and rest repeat
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No pain...no gain!
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/f44a76eb5ba398e9241178caf0eec66f/tenor.gif?itemid=4472103)
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I paid cash for my house. It is the 6th home I have purchased. Have you ever heard of K.I.S.S?? You are all making this way too complicated. Keep it Simple Stupid
Most of the so called experts you all quote like rocket scientist were just gym rats trying to sell something. Menzter and HIT was just an advertisement for Arthur Jones to sell gym equipment none of the so called experiments were real they were all setup like before and after pics and you guys act like it was Nasa engineering 40 years later
Guys talking about 1 working set not mentioning the 5 warm up sets they did going super heavy high intensity and destroying your CNS every workout is not productive
You know how you can tell when someone doesn't know what they are talkign about they start mentioning studies with Mentzer and Jones form the 1970's or they pull out a godamn notebook in the gym to write down every rep why not bring a 10 key calculator so you can get exactly 72.369 percentage of your last lift?? And percentage of your max? Your max changes daily. At a certain point you need to listen to what is going on inside your body and not rely on outside books and calculations
Do what you can then go home eat and rest repeat
You wouldn`t make it through one of my easiest workouts, that`s how intense it would be.
I had a great training partner some time back...................c ompetitive bodybuilder who looked great.
The guy was in his early 40`s....I was heading towards 50... we were doing tri-sets for arms non-stop adding weight to each tri-set.... and on my third set of the tri-set,he was squatting on the gym floor wheezing.
Nevermind a leg or shoulder session......you would come away knowing what intensity is and knowing you just tried to train with a fucking animal.
Also trained with a 22 year old kid who loved to train hard.....we did legs in the basement of the gym and everyday, not jut on leg days but leg days were the best,I would ask him...."What`s it like to be trained into the ground by an old man"?
All he would ay as he literally crawled upstairs was ...."Fuck you old man " !!
Then he`d smile cuz he knew we just trained our guts out.
Fuck percentages, get in and race the clock getting the most work done in the shortest amount of time possible then you`ll know what pain and what intensity truly is.
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You wouldn`t make it through one of my easiest workouts, that`s how intense it would be.
I had a great training partner some time back...................c ompetitive bodybuilder who looked great.
The guy was in his early 40`s....I was heading towards 50... we were doing tri-sets for arms non-stop adding weight to each tri-set.... and on my third set of the tri-set,he was squatting on the gym floor wheezing.
Nevermind a leg or shoulder session......you would come away knowing what intensity is and knowing you just tried to train with a fucking animal.
Also trained with a 22 year old kid who loved to train hard.....we did legs in the basement of the gym and everyday, not jut on leg days but leg days were the best,I would ask him...."What`s it like to be trained into the ground by an old man"?
All he would ay as he literally crawled upstairs was ...."Fuck you old man " !!
Then he`d smile cuz he knew we just trained our guts out.
Fuck percentages, get in and race the clock getting the most work done in the shortest amount of time possible then you`ll know what pain and what intensity truly is.
The goal is results throwing up in a bucket is not the result I am looking to achieve
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The goal is results throwing up in a bucket is not the result I am looking to achieve
You`re not getting results on your chest and back...........arms and delts look good but look the same..............big gut .....leg have progressed....so prop there.
There is a big dfiffereance between those who train and those who merely workout.
Sorry you "workout" like a pussy and dont try to make any inroads to gaining.
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And hev just stood up as opposed to hitting the last rep.
Then these fool wonder why they make no gains.
Haha the rep he hit “failure” after didn’t even slow down
One reason this is interesting is that Schoenfeld is involved in a lot of training/hypertrophy research. But when I've looked at some of the routines they look impossible to do, unless you lift like Schoenfeld. IOW the studies are pretty worthless.
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You`re not getting results on your chest and back...........arms and delts look good but look the same..............big gut .....leg have progressed....so prop there.
There is a big dfiffereance between those who train and those who merely workout.
Sorry you "workout" like a pussy and dont try to make any inroads to gaining.
My upper body is not progressing because I can't train heavy yet it is maintaining and yes legs are making gains. I said from day one most of my gains will go into my legs. The legs have more potential if I can train them without causing injury. I only hve a big gut when I am trying to make a heavy weigh in. I take a day or two off eating to clear everything about once a week. Not everyday is a heavy eating day. After I touch a heavy weight I stop chill let body adjust and digestive system rest then go again
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The goal is results throwing up in a bucket is not the result I am looking to achieve
You wouldn`t throw up unless you ate an entire peach cobbler with a side of pizza before you hit the gym.
I puked only a handful of times in decades of training and all on leg days......doesn`t happen all that much only in Weider magazines
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My upper body is not progressing because I can't train heavy yet it is maintaining and yes legs are making gains. I said from day one most of my gains will go into my legs. The legs have more potential if I can train them without causing injury. I only hve a big gut when I am trying to make a heavy weigh in. I take a day or two off eating to clear everything about once a week. Not everyday is a heavy eating day. After I touch a heavy weight I stop chill let body adjust and digestive system rest then go again
You dont have to train heavy,do super-sets with no rest for 10 -12 reps.
Breaking down tissue, eating, and resting builds muscle not training heavy.
Of course you should always use a weight that` sufficiently heavy for the reps you are shooting for but you dont have to do a single on the bench with 505 to build muscle.
You should know this mr. excuse maker.
Try drop-sets, running dumbell the rack, pre-exhaust ets.......there are tons of stuff you could do to work around your injuries as most of these principles dont allow you to go all that heavy.
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My upper body is not progressing because I can't train heavy yet it is maintaining and yes legs are making gains. I said from day one most of my gains will go into my legs. The legs have more potential if I can train them without causing injury. I only hve a big gut when I am trying to make a heavy weigh in. I take a day or two off eating to clear everything about once a week. Not everyday is a heavy eating day. After I touch a heavy weight I stop chill let body adjust and digestive system rest then go again
Having a heavy weigh in day is just plain old dumb as you will weigh far less in the morning.....the weight gain is not muscle and I know your argument for this and it`s bullshit.
It takes time, not blowing up each night like the Michelin Man.
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You dont have to train heavy,do super-sets with no rest for 10 -12 reps.
Breaking down tissue, eating, and resting builds muscle not training heavy.
Of course you should always use a weight that` sufficiently heavy for the reps you are shooting for but you dont have to do a single on the bench with 505 to build muscle.
You should know this mr. excuse maker.
Try drop-sets, running dumbell the rack, pre-exhaust ets.......there are tons of stuff you could do to work around your injuries as most of these principles dont allow you to go all that heavy.
I can not yet train in the 10-12 rep range that will be too heavy also I amn noticing I am more vascular than ever in my chest and shoulders so some gains are being made
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I paid cash for my house. It is the 6th home I have purchased. Have you ever heard of K.I.S.S?? You are all making this way too complicated. Keep it Simple Stupid
Most of the so called experts you all quote like rocket scientist were just gym rats trying to sell something. Menzter and HIT was just an advertisement for Arthur Jones to sell gym equipment none of the so called experiments were real they were all setup like before and after pics and you guys act like it was Nasa engineering 40 years later
Guys talking about 1 working set not mentioning the 5 warm up sets they did going super heavy high intensity and destroying your CNS every workout is not productive
You know how you can tell when someone doesn't know what they are talkign about they start mentioning studies with Mentzer and Jones form the 1970's or they pull out a godamn notebook in the gym to write down every rep why not bring a 10 key calculator so you can get exactly 72.369 percentage of your last lift?? And percentage of your max? Your max changes daily. At a certain point you need to listen to what is going on inside your body and not rely on outside books and calculations
Do what you can then go home eat and rest repeat
;D
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My example on Wikipedia has over 50 footnotes to research. The chart specifically is dealing with intensity in strength training. Your example is dealing with VO2 max not strength intensity.
I have provided example after example of the definition of intensity. All you do is throw insults and back nothing up with anything other than your opinion.
It doesn't matter how many "foot notes" that article had. It starts out with a disclaimer that the whole article wanting.
I have provided specific examples of intensity, even using hypotheticals to make it easier to understand. But, as I said before, you're over your head on this one.
The idea that one needs weights to determine intensity is just ridiculous. Watch the Olympics and notice how a world-class athlete will collapse to the ground in utter exhaustion after running a 440 and say that is not intensity.
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I paid cash for my house. It is the 6th home I have purchased. Have you ever heard of K.I.S.S?? You are all making this way too complicated. Keep it Simple Stupid
Most of the so called experts you all quote like rocket scientist were just gym rats trying to sell something. Menzter and HIT was just an advertisement for Arthur Jones to sell gym equipment none of the so called experiments were real they were all setup like before and after pics and you guys act like it was Nasa engineering 40 years later
Guys talking about 1 working set not mentioning the 5 warm up sets they did going super heavy high intensity and destroying your CNS every workout is not productive
You know how you can tell when someone doesn't know what they are talkign about they start mentioning studies with Mentzer and Jones form the 1970's or they pull out a godamn notebook in the gym to write down every rep why not bring a 10 key calculator so you can get exactly 72.369 percentage of your last lift?? And percentage of your max? Your max changes daily. At a certain point you need to listen to what is going on inside your body and not rely on outside books and calculations
Do what you can then go home eat and rest repeat
Whose cash? And how much did that house cost? You don't work, don't seem to have any marketable job skills, and you obviously not the brightest bulb on the block.
And, BTW, Dorian kept meticulous records of every workout he did.
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Pellius been training consistantly but adding weight and sets gradually as I progress.
Anyway I did 4 Tri-Sets for delts yesterday for the first time in a ,loooong time and I would call what I did INTENSITY. with a capital fucking "I"......it kicked my ass and I had to strain to raise my empty arm afterwards.......and the burn was awesome.
Like I said,doing the most amount of work in the shortest amount of time = INTENSITY IMO.
I have for the most part lived by this adage......not in my early years but later on.
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It doesn't matter how many "foot notes" that article had. It starts out with a disclaimer that the whole article wanting.
I have provided specific examples of intensity, even using hypotheticals to make it easier to understand. But, as I said before, you're over your head on this one.
The idea that one needs weights to determine intensity is just ridiculous. Watch the Olympics and notice how a world-class athlete will collapse to the ground in utter exhaustion after running a 440 and say that is not intensity.
1) I proved that the definition of intensity in strength training is % of 1 rep max. This is not in dispute.
2) Proclaiming that I am "over my head" does not make it so.
3) Again, you are confusing strength intensity with something completely different. A runner getting winded in a 440 race has nothing to do with strength intensity. VO2 max is a completely different measurement.
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Pellius been training consistantly but adding weight and sets gradually as I progress.
Anyway I did 4 Tri-Sets for delts yesterday for the first time in a ,loooong time and I would call what I did INTENSITY. with a capital fucking "I"......it kicked my ass and I had to strain to raise my empty arm afterwards.......and the burn was awesome.
Like I said,doing the most amount of work in the shortest amount of time = INTENSITY IMO.
I have for the most part lived by this adage......not in my early years but later on.
Yet, in Humble's example, he makes no mention of time. Just x amount of sets at x amount of weight gives you the exact degree of intensity. Because your last drop set was so light due to fatigue Humble would consider that low intensity.
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Yet, in Humble's example, he makes no mention of time. Just x amount of sets at x amount of weight gives you the exact degree of intensity. Because your last drop set was so light due to fatigue Humble would consider that low intensity.
It's not my opinion it is sports science vs. bro science.
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1) I proved that the definition of intensity in strength training is % of 1 rep max. This is not in dispute.
2) Proclaiming that I am "over my head" does not make it so.
3) Again, you are confusing strength intensity with something completely different. A runner getting winded in a 440 race has nothing to do with strength intensity. VO2 max is a completely different measurement.
1. No you haven't. You gave other's opinions which the vast majority would "dispute". I dispute your opinions and examples. You do not need any weight or any resistance to perform intense physical activity. Sprinters are a good example.
2. True.
3. No confusion. Wes, in his example, proves that intensity is not dependant on the amount of force generated. The amount of weight involved. In fact, it is inversely proportional. As the amount of force decreases intensity increases. I'll break this down for you: Let's say that Wes can do 10 repetitions with 35 lbs with the 11th rep being impossible despite his best effort. In the first rep, it is very easy and he could have easily generated more than 35 lbs in the first rep. Intensity is low, whereas force/strength is high. As he progresses through his set his muscle's ability to generate force starts to decrease as his intensity, overcoming his fatiguing muscles, starts to increase. In the last rep, he is at his weakest, he is barely able to generate the amount of force necessary to move that 35 lbs resistance. He can barely complete that last rep no matter how hard he tries and fails completely when he attempts another rep. Here his ability to generate force, to contract his muscles, to move that 35 lbs, is at its nadir whereas his intensity is at its highest during this set.
Force generated gets lower while the intensity increases.
QED
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It's not my opinion it is sports science vs. bro science.
Your opinion is wrong. You are arguing bro science. No mention of time taken to perform those sets. No distinction was made between absolute and relative intensity. There is a specific definition for intensity.
It is very simple and easily understood and relatable without the need for a calculator
Training intensity refers to the level of effort a person exerts during exercise relative to his or her maximum effort.
-- National Academy of Sports Medicine
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Your opinion is wrong. You are arguing bro science. No mention of time taken to perform those sets. No distinction was made between absolute and relative intensity. There is a specific definition for intensity.
It is very simple and easily understood and relatable without the need for a calculator
Training intensity refers to the level of effort a person exerts during exercise relative to his or her maximum effort.
-- National Academy of Sports Medicine
Which is another way of saying % of 1rm. What is a maximum effort? How do you measure maximum effort without knowing a 1rm?
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In the last rep, he is at his weakest, he is barely able to generate the amount of force necessary to move that 35 lbs resistance. He can barely complete that last rep no matter how hard he tries and fails completely when he attempts another rep. Here his ability to generate force, to contract his muscles, to move that 35 lbs, is at its nadir whereas his intensity is at its highest during this set.
Force generated gets lower while the intensity increases.
QED
This is when I do either a Drop-Set or set the bells down for a few seconds catch a few breaths for a mere moment, and squeeze out a couple more reps, more repeating of this process until I simply cant do another rep...........just another way to extend a set which = more intensity of effort.
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Jeez,,,,,10 pages about a side lateral raise :-\
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Jeez,,,,,10 pages about a side lateral raise :-\
(http://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/assets/4495965/worth-knuckleball.gif)
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Well, you know what they say, "A broken clock...blah, blah, blah"
Good to see you back. I worry about you. You know, with the drinking problem and all. Missed those changing room body shots. They do have the best lighting.
I do look good in those changing room shots 8)
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Jeez,,,,,10 pages about a side lateral raise :-\
Only 10? This is getbig dammit.
Who had better lateral delts, Dorian or Ronnie?
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Jeez,,,,,10 pages about a side lateral raise :-\
10 pages of Pellius sympathy bumping his own thread.... ::)
Shoulders are almost like calves...for naturals, shoulder mass is mostly genetic. Sure, anyone can make their shoulders bigger and more defined through hard training and low body fat, but usually you either have them, or you don't.
On steroids.....all bets are off, as deltoid muscles are one of the best responders to anabolics.
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1. No you haven't. You gave other's opinions which the vast majority would "dispute". I dispute your opinions and examples. You do not need any weight or any resistance to perform intense physical activity. Sprinters are a good example.
QED
Sprinters move against their own bodyweight as a result of gravity (and also wind resistance). They do in fact need that weight to generate any kind of physical response. That's why NASA had difficulty initially devising a treadmill in space craft that got any kind of physical response in zero gravity.
Usain Bolt developed approximately a peak of 1500 Watts in his sprint. https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/power-generated-by-elite-runner.252607/
If you measure watts generated, you will have an objective measure of intensity since watts are defined as the rate that work is done.
I see it all the time in my bicycling training. If I push a big gear (resistance) slowly up a hill I generate X watts. If I drop down to a smaller gear (lower resistance) but increase the pedaling rate, i can easily put out twice the power, or watts. If you use that as the measure of intensity it tracks pretty well with the perceived effort, up to a point.
When you start loading your system down with lactic acid you are often generating less power but it feels more difficult. The intensity measured in watts drops but you think it's off the charts, and it is not.
Many people equate physical pain with workout intensity. From a "work performed" standpoint that is not true.
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Sprinters move against their own bodyweight as a result of gravity (and also wind resistance). They do in fact need that weight to generate any kind of physical response. That's why NASA had difficulty initially devising a treadmill in space craft that got any kind of physical response in zero gravity.
Usain Bolt developed approximately a peak of 1500 Watts in his sprint. https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/power-generated-by-elite-runner.252607/
If you measure watts generated, you will have an objective measure of intensity since watts are defined as the rate that work is done.
I see it all the time in my bicycling training. If I push a big gear (resistance) slowly up a hill I generate X watts. If I drop down to a smaller gear (lower resistance) but increase the pedaling rate, i can easily put out twice the power, or watts. If you use that as the measure of intensity it tracks pretty well with the perceived effort, up to a point.
When you start loading your system down with lactic acid you are often generating less power but it feels more difficult. The intensity measured in watts drops but you think it's off the charts, and it is not.
Many people equate physical pain with workout intensity. From a "work performed" standpoint that is not true.
So, what are you saying?
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Sprinters move against their own bodyweight as a result of gravity (and also wind resistance). They do in fact need that weight to generate any kind of physical response. That's why NASA had difficulty initially devising a treadmill in space craft that got any kind of physical response in zero gravity.
Usain Bolt developed approximately a peak of 1500 Watts in his sprint. https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/power-generated-by-elite-runner.252607/
If you measure watts generated, you will have an objective measure of intensity since watts are defined as the rate that work is done.
I see it all the time in my bicycling training. If I push a big gear (resistance) slowly up a hill I generate X watts. If I drop down to a smaller gear (lower resistance) but increase the pedaling rate, i can easily put out twice the power, or watts. If you use that as the measure of intensity it tracks pretty well with the perceived effort, up to a point.
When you start loading your system down with lactic acid you are often generating less power but it feels more difficult. The intensity measured in watts drops but you think it's off the charts, and it is not.
Many people equate physical pain with workout intensity. From a "work performed" standpoint that is not true.
You really think that's what we are talking about? Of course we always move against our own weight. That is a given. Is there such a thing as one rep max with your body weight? Humble was very clear and specific about using actual weights even outlining a set and rep scheme.
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Great thread IMO, though I detest one-arm laterals.
If I did do them,I would lean to my left for right hand and vice versa for left hand.
Why you may ask ???
BECAUSE IT`S THE FUCKING CORRECT WAT TO DO THEM DAMMINT !!!!!!!!1111111111111111 LOL ;D
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Great thread IMO, though I detest one-arm laterals.
If I did do them,I would lean to my left for right hand and vice versa for left hand.
Why you may ask ???
BECAUSE IT`S THE FUCKING CORRECT WAT TO DO THEM DAMMINT !!!!!!!!1111111111111111 LOL ;D
X2
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X2
We old farts could teach these young bucks a thing or two........... thousand. ;D
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We old farts could teach these young bucks a thing or two........... thousand. ;D
;)
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We old farts could teach these young bucks a thing or two........... thousand. ;D
(https://userfiles.steadyhealth.com/userfiles/articles/old-guys-playing-chess.jpg)
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We aint that old IroNat.................. .............maybe anyway !! ;D