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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Wiggs on August 30, 2022, 10:35:42 AM
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Not any version of Ronnie, any version of Dorian, any version of Phil, Lee Haney or anyone else. This is as close to perfect as it's going to get.
Had this version showed up to the 98 Mr. O, he would have beaten Ronnie they would have justified it by saying Ronnie's gyno cost him. In reality he's just more close to perfect than Ronnie.
5'10 232lbs 98 Arnold Classic Flex Wheeler!
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soft and oily compared to Ronnie, and that video is stretched out
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1993 was eons better NO oil back then by 98 forget about it
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His 98 Ironman version a week earlier is a close 2nd!
Start at 2:06
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1992 he looked better
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1993 was eons better NO oil back then by 98 forget about it
98 version is more dry and mature. Bigger and better than 93 at 218 vs 232.
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98 version is more dry and mature. Bigger and better than 93 at 218 vs 232.
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soft and oily compared to Ronnie, and that video is stretched out
This. I prefer ‘93 Flex over this Flex anyways (no schmomo)
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Not any version of Ronnie, any version of Dorian, any version of Phil, Lee Haney or anyone else. This is as close to perfect as it's going to get.
Had this version showed up to the 98 Mr. O, he would have beaten Ronnie they would have justified it by saying Ronnie's gyno cost him. In reality he's just more close to perfect than Ronnie.
5'10 232lbs 98 Arnold Classic Flex Wheeler!
If we're talking about a physique that we ourselves would want to have, or something like that - or who has the more aesthetically pleasing physique, then sure.
IMO, no one beats the 2003 version of Ronnie. When you have that much size on everyone...to me it's just impossible to deny him.
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Flex looked great but he was never unbeatable.
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If we're talking about a physique that we ourselves would want to have, or something like that - or who has the more aesthetically pleasing physique, than sure.
IMO, no one beats the 2003 version of Ronnie. When you have that much size on everyone...to me it's just impossible to deny him.
Matt, I believe judging should be based on closest to being the most aesthetically pleasing mixed with size, conditioning and posing. And finally the least amount of flaws structurally and muscularly. Freakiness should have never entered the bodybuilding lexicon.
Prime Flex embodies my ideal more than anyone else.
2003 Ronnie was huge but lacked crisp conditioning and the detail he had a lighter weight. Furthermore, his posing in general is average and lacks the fluidity of Flex, Shawn, Kevin and even Dorian.
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Flex looked great but he was never unbeatable.
That is because of his conditioning not his structure or lack of muscle. This version I posted is unbeatable.
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soft and oily compared to Ronnie, and that video is stretched out
There's nothing soft or oily about this version of Flex. 99 Mr. O yes
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Compared to today's Classic physique guys ol' Flex is really nothin' to write home about anymore ???
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Matt, I believe judging should be based on closest to being the most aesthetically pleasing mixed with size, conditioning and posing. And finally the least amount of flaws structurally and muscularly. Freakiness should have never entered the bodybuilding lexicon.
Prime Flex embodies my ideal more than anyone else.
2003 Ronnie was huge but lacked crisp conditioning and the detail he had a lighter weight. Furthermore, his posing in general is average and lacks the fluidity of Flex, Shawn, Kevin and even Dorian.
guy was loaded with fucking oil
If you want to talk about the most athestically pleasing human being Paris is the pinnacle.
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guy was loaded with fucking oil
If you want to talk about the most athestically pleasing human being Paris is the pinnacle.
For a white guy but he doesn't compare to Flex AT ALL.
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Compared to today's Classic physique guys ol' Flex is really nothin' to write home about anymore ???
Please stop Terrence is great but he's like 5'6 170lbs. Vs. 5'10 232. Don't do that.
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For a white guy but he doesn't compare to Flex AT ALL.
You have got to be trolling
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You have got to be trolling
No I'm not trolling at all. If Bob Paris was black he'd be no Flex Wheeler, but in the mix with Paul Dillett, Cormier, Robby Robinson, Surge Nubret, Lee Haney, Charles Clairmont but because he's white he gets elevated by white guys as having the best aesthetics. BTW that's no shade to Bob, he had a beautiful physique...No homo he's a taller Zane with more muscle that was punished for his homosexuality. Should have placed higher but he wasn't beating Haney, not enough muscle on his tall physique.
Bob Paris is what people want Chris Bumstead to be but he's not. Bumstead is flawed as fuck. Skinny neck, short biceps insertions, average calves (especially for a white guy) and separation in his legs is mangled.
Israelites aka Negros have an overwhelming advantage when it comes to aesthetics in bodybuilding, this is why imo judging is less on aesthetics and more on a mixture of size and aesthetics and bodybuilders would have had to remain smaller and in general white guys rule on size in bodybuilding but it's not as big as the gap between black and white in aesthetics. Allowing Dorian to win in 94 took bodybuilding off the rails and devalued aesthetics and promoted size over aesthetics. It also was the beginning of overlooking guts in the name of size. This ended when Rhoden won the O when they punished a Mr. O for having a gut which had never been done.
Now Mr. O's and bodybuilders in general are back to having flat abs after 24 years of guts.
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Anybody else read the thread title like this?
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Wiggs: what are your thoughts on Phil Heath?
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If we're talking about a physique that we ourselves would want to have, or something like that - or who has the more aesthetically pleasing physique, than sure.
IMO, no one beats the 2003 version of Ronnie. When you have that much size on everyone...to me it's just impossible to deny him.
98 beats 03 Ronnie 03 looks like trash compared to 98 there's no contest. He's much heavier that's about it
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Wiggs: what are your thoughts on Phil Heath?
Phil is an all-time great but Phil is flawed. Phil doesn't have the aesthetics that Ronnie, Shawn, Cormier, Flex, Dorian, Clairmont and Dillett had.
Phil is exposed when he lifts his arms up in the front double biceps pose. While he has all the muscle he needs, his obliques make him appear blocky and he doesn't have a V taper. Same thing in his abs and thigh pose. Of course we all know he's a little narrow but in person let me assure you, Phil doesn't look narrow at all, it's that the others are ultra wide alla Jay Cutler.
Phil has the best back double biceps pose from head to toe...After Ronnie and even then it would have to be 98 or 99 Mr. O Ronnie or 01 Arnold Classic Ronnie. Because Ronnie doesn't dominate Phil in this pose.
Phil while narrowish in the rear lat spread is only beat by Dorian and Ronnie. He's that damn good.
He has a great side chest and side triceps when his abs were flat. And his front lat spread was very complete as well.
IMO his best looks were 2010 Arnold even though he lost to Kai, 2011 and 2012 Mr. O.
In history comparing him other Mr. Os I only put him behind Ronnie and Dorian. His best look is better than Jay's and Dexter's best.
BUT Phil's best is not better than Flex Wheeler's best. Flex exposes Phil's structural flaws. I'll take the video I posted of 98 AC Flex over any version of Phil.
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1993 was eons better NO oil back then by 98 forget about it
Totally agree.
As close to perfect as anyone has gotten in 93.
😮
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Matt, I believe judging should be based on closest to being the most aesthetically pleasing mixed with size, conditioning and posing. And finally the least amount of flaws structurally and muscularly. Freakiness should have never entered the bodybuilding lexicon.
Prime Flex embodies my ideal more than anyone else.
2003 Ronnie was huge but lacked crisp conditioning and the detail he had a lighter weight. Furthermore, his posing in general is average and lacks the fluidity of Flex, Shawn, Kevin and even Dorian.
And that may be what this comes down to.
Ronnie was, from the stat you provided, 55-lb heavier than Flex.
That's over 20% heavier!
To me, it comes down to the question is: was Flex over 20% more aesthetic, or conditioned...or some combination of the two?
Then I would go with Flex.
But by your standard, if we take sheer freaky mass out of the picture, then Flex would almost universally be regarded as superior in terms of aesthetics.
My question is: how else was bodybuilding expected to evolve?
It seems to me it made sense that bodybuilding would continue to reward mass monsters until finally, we got these new categories.
Bodybuilding is hard to judge.
Also another point to add - I think most of the poses where Flex looks prettier than Ronnie are from the front. I'd be hard pressed to give him any back poses over Ronnie.
For me personally, I had never seen anything like Ronnie in 2003.
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😮
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Flex never looked the same after his car accident.
Amazing comeback nonetheless.
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Compared to today's Classic physique guys ol' Flex is really nothin' to write home about anymore ???
Bwahahahahhaahahaha
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No I'm not trolling at all. If Bob Paris was black he'd be no Flex Wheeler, but in the mix with Paul Dillett, Cormier, Robby Robinson, Surge Nubret, Lee Haney, Charles Clairmont but because he's white he gets elevated by white guys as having the best aesthetics. BTW that's no shade to Bob, he had a beautiful physique...No homo he's a taller Zane with more muscle that was punished for his homosexuality. Should have placed higher but he wasn't beating Haney, not enough muscle on his tall physique.
Bob Paris is what people want Chris Bumstead to be but he's not. Bumstead is flawed as fuck. Skinny neck, short biceps insertions, average calves (especially for a white guy) and separation in his legs is mangled.
Israelites aka Negros have an overwhelming advantage when it comes to aesthetics in bodybuilding, this is why imo judging is less on aesthetics and more on a mixture of size and aesthetics and bodybuilders would have had to remain smaller and in general white guys rule on size in bodybuilding but it's not as big as the gap between black and white in aesthetics. Allowing Dorian to win in 94 took bodybuilding off the rails and devalued aesthetics and promoted size over aesthetics. It also was the beginning of overlooking guts in the name of size. This ended when Rhoden won the O when they punished a Mr. O for having a gut which had never been done.
Now Mr. O's and bodybuilders in general are back to having flat abs after 24 years of guts.
99% of them have no calves.
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And that may be what this comes down to.
Ronnie was, from the stat you provided, 55-lb heavier than Flex.
That's over 20% heavier!
To me, it comes down to the question is: was Flex over 20% more aesthetic, or conditioned...or some combination of the two?
Then I would go with Flex.
But by your standard, if we take sheer freaky mass out of the picture, then Flex would almost universally be regarded as superior in terms of aesthetics.
My question is: how else was bodybuilding expected to evolve?
It seems to me it made sense that bodybuilding would continue to reward mass monsters until finally, we got these new categories.
Bodybuilding is hard to judge.
Also another point to add - I think most of the poses where Flex looks prettier than Ronnie are from the front. I'd be hard pressed to give him any back poses over Ronnie.
For me personally, I had never seen anything like Ronnie in 2003.
Here's the thing with the "evolution" of bodybuilding. Size doesn't mean it's moving in the right direction when it comes at the expense of aesthetics and details like separation, conditioning , tie-ins and guts. So to me, bodybuilding peaked in 93. While 98 and 99 were good years I question the validity of body parts in those years and after 99 it went downhill hard. Then there were just some good bodybuildefs sporadically since then. Wolfe, Dexter, 09 Jay, 07 Victor, Phil, 2012 Kai, 2018 Rhoden.
I'm not a fan of Ramy's physique, it's littered with flaws. Curry's legs from the rear are shameful in terms of definition and size. He was the best of a mid grade bunch.
Anyway, you're right, from the rear, Ronnie dominated Flex in terms of width, conditioning and size.
To get back to evolution, bodybuilding should have always been about bringing in the least flawed or most perfect physique and each era would have had their athletes. I think we can safely say that Ramy, Jay, Nick Walker and 03-06 Ronnie do not display an ideal combo of size, aesthetics, conditioning, separation. Imo, they display Size with all the other stuff sprinkled in to varying degrees and that has been the problem visually and health wise.
I don't think anyone would be complaining if these guys would all come in looking like their versions of 93 judging standards. Bodybuilding would be alot more popular and alot more bodybuilders would still be alive.
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That 98 pic of Flex is so fuzzy you can barely make out his face. STOP. Lol
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Compared to today's Classic physique guys ol' Flex is really nothin' to write home about anymore ???
Damn. He’s darker than Wesley Snipes and Orville Burke combined.
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99% of them have no calves.
Exactly and aesthetics in bodybuilding is based on the Greek ideal which was arms, calves and neck all measured the same. How can you be aesthetic when you have 22" arms and 15" calves? You can't. This is where Paris separates himself from the others. Flex was blessed with a light bone structure and he had a narrow waist & hips , he also had narrow clavicles. Great symmetry and great muscle roundness but his lat spreads sucked , especially his rear , he all but disappeared in the ab-thigh. In terms of real aesthetics & symmetry Chris Cormier smoked Flex by far. He's like a 250lb Bob Paris he's a hell of a lot closer to the Greek Ideal than Flex and Ronnie. Hell so is Dillett but he's has other issues.
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That 98 pic of Flex is so fuzzy you can barely make out his face. STOP. Lol
Look at the delts in the comparison. :-X
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99% of them have no calves.
I won't say 99% but alot. We don't see the Dilletts, Aaron Bakers, Vince Taylors of the world anymore. IMO calves absolutely should be marked down if they suck just like any other bodypart. Same thing if you're like Ramy and have 35 inch quads and 20 inch calves. Not very aesthetic and the difference takes away from the overall look and he should be docked for it.
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1998 Ronnie beats every single version of flex
Flex is the better physique, Ronnie is the better bber
Like dexter and Shawn Ray, Shawn has the better physique while dexter was the better bber
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Exactly and aesthetics in bodybuilding is based on the Greek ideal which was arms, calves and neck all measured the same. How can you be aesthetic when you have 22" arms and 15" calves? You can't. This is where Paris separates himself from the others. Flex was blessed with a light bone structure and he had a narrow waist & hips , he also had narrow clavicles. Great symmetry and great muscle roundness but his lat spreads sucked , especially his rear , he all but disappeared in the ab-thigh. In terms of real aesthetics & symmetry Chris Cormier smoked Flex by far. He's like a 250lb Bob Paris he's a hell of a lot closer to the Greek Ideal than Flex and Ronnie. Hell so is Dillett but he's has other issues.
I appreciate Cormier alot more now than I did then. He was screwed on many placings because he had no stand out parts which goes to show how aesthetic he really was. Chris had zero structural flaws. The only tangible thing he lacked was back density. When he got larger to compete with Ronnie, he lost his great conditioning which is a shame.
Chris even had a great set of calves.
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1998 Ronnie beats every single version of flex
Flex is the better physique, Ronnie is the better bber
Like dexter and Shawn Ray, Shawn has the better physique while dexter was the better bber
I've heard this saying many times, but what does it really mean? Shouldn't the best physique = the best bodybuilder? Why are these not one in the same?
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I appreciate Cormier alot more now than I did then. He was screwed on many placings because he had no stand out parts which goes to show how aesthetic he really was. Chris had zero structural flaws. The only tangible thing he lacked was back density. When he got larger to compete with Ronnie, he lost his great conditioning which is a shame.
Chris even had a great set of calves.
If a bodybuilder walks out onstage and your eyes are drawn to a body part, thats a flaw
Ramis legs are way too big
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If a bodybuilder walks out onstage and your eyes are drawn to a body part, thats a flaw
Ramis legs are way too big
I really like your first sentence. That's how it should be.
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I've heard this saying many times, but what does it really mean? Shouldn't the best physique = the best bodybuilder? Why are these not one in the same?
My view on that is Shawn and flex are physiques you aspire to in terms of classic lines , aesthetics/pleasing to the eye, they aren’t “big” in terms of modern bbing
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My view on that is Shawn and flex are physiques you aspire to in terms of classic lines , aesthetics/pleasing to the eye, they aren’t “big” in terms of modern bbing
That saying more than proves that judging went the wrong direction. Now, keep in mind Dexter never beat Shawn but they never competed against each other in their peaks . Dexter had way more flaws than Shawn structurally and muscularly.
Dexter was bigger, dryer and wider.
Shawn was aesthetically better, more separated, flowed better and was able to display his physique slightly better.
Dexter had higher lats and shitty calves.
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I was there almost the entire time.
1993. The end.
Everything else… just too much oil. Trying too hard to chase 250 pounds of Dorian, Ronnie, whoever.
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I was there almost the entire time.
1993. The end.
Everything else… just too much oil. Trying too hard to chase 250 pounds of Dorian, Ronnie, whoever.
Tom, please :( please :(
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If a bodybuilder walks out onstage and your eyes are drawn to a body part, thats a flaw
99% of the audience is there to do just that, and it's the only part covered.
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There are poses that Flex can pull off that very few others can that says alot about Flex. I'm not even sure these poses have names but n the first video I attached at :33, :39, :46 and :54 If a bodybuilder can pull these poses off and look great in them, you're very aesthetic. No one is better than Flex in these poses. Also Flex is one of few that looks great in all variations of the most muscular. Most look good in only crab or just hands clasped.
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That saying more than proves that judging went the wrong direction. Now, keep in mind Dexter never beat Shawn but they never competed against each other in their peaks . Dexter had way more flaws than Shawn structurally and muscularly.
Dexter was bigger, dryer and wider.
Shawn was aesthetically better, more separated, flowed better and was able to display his physique slightly better.
Dexter had higher lats and shitty calves.
My points exactly!
As good as dexter was, like you said, no calves, high lats making his torso odd in certain poses
No doubt he’s better than Shawn when it comes to competing/wins, but Shawn flowed, classic lines, vacuum pose, the physique most guys would like to look like
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My points exactly!
As good as dexter was, like you said, no calves, high lats making his torso odd in certain poses
No doubt he’s better than Shawn when it comes to competing/wins, but Shawn flowed, classic lines, vacuum pose, the physique most guys would like to look like
This exposes judging, it shouldn't be like this. Ronnie at 249 vs. Flex at 232 I can see a back and forth but Shawn should win every time and he did. Not sure a 94 Shawn would beat an 08 Dexter. For me he would, not sure what the judges would do.
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BTW, for those interested 98 Arnold Classic or excuse me, Arnold's Rock & Roll Bodybuilding Championship ;D
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not to throw this off too much about flex,how close was vince taylor off from winning the o.his 3rd place finish was probably his less than stellar showing, i guess age he turned pro at 37 in 88 and didnt max out size wise until mid 90's huge by then.he had calves,some of the best arms/delt combo,wide,back was a bit soft but wide/thick,his legs were a bit small compared to his stellar calves...
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not to throw this off too much about flex,how close was vince taylor off from winning the o.his 3rd place finish was probably his less than stellar showing, i guess age he turned pro at 37 in 88 and didnt max out size wise until mid 90's huge by then.he had calves,some of the best arms/delt combo,wide,back was a bit soft but wide/thick,his legs were a bit small compared to his stellar calves...
Yeah the only thing Vince was missing was back density and a little more quad size. Definitely one of the 90s greats I overlook accidentally.
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IMHO 93 arnold classic Flex was the best BB package ever on a stage. - shape, symmetry, muscularity, proportion
Opinions like assholes I know and there have been so many other incredible top dogs, but if one physique had to represent the sport madness, I think its that
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BTW, for those interested 98 Arnold Classic or excuse me, Arnold's Rock & Roll Bodybuilding Championship ;D
that was stressful to watch
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Yeah the only thing Vince was missing was back density and a little more quad size. Definitely one of the 90s greats I overlook accidentally.
His chest wasn't good at all
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His chest wasn't good at all
Upon further review, you're right. 100% :-X
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Speaking of Taylors what was going on with Ernie Taylor’s arms?
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-l_l2WujSuxg/Vp3Jxd2Z1JI/AAAAAAAAwWY/7kqD4SBuK8o/s1600/ernie%2Btaylor23.jpg)
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I think it was 93’ Arnold that he looked his best. At least in the pics I’ve seen.
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Speaking of Taylors what was going on with Ernie Taylor’s arms?
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-l_l2WujSuxg/Vp3Jxd2Z1JI/AAAAAAAAwWY/7kqD4SBuK8o/s1600/ernie%2Btaylor23.jpg)
I know he used to site inject a lot of test prop early on but he looks like he moved on to synthol
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multi page bodybuilding thread reported to moderators
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Wiggs...
I was at the 1996 Night Of Champions. I sat very close to the stage.
Flex Wheeler may have been at his all time best there
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that was stressful to watch
Wbf like lol
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Wiggs...
I was at the 1996 Night Of Champions. I sat very close to the stage.
Flex Wheeler may have been at his all time best there
To bad everything else about him sucks, he didn’t have the genetics for longevity, health, and good kidneys
Now this fool only has one full leg left and in and out of the hospital daily, not going to end well, sadly
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I think it was 93’ Arnold that he looked his best. At least in the pics I’ve seen.
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IMHO 93 arnold classic Flex was the best BB package ever on a stage. - shape, symmetry, muscularity, proportion
Opinions like assholes I know and there have been so many other incredible top dogs, but if one physique had to represent the sport madness, I think its that
I'd say 93 Olympia version of Dorian was better. But Flex looked amazing at the 93 Arnold.
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Roger that. Dorian is of course a king - but of the new school.
I think the 93 flex represents the old ideal of flow and the key element of a small waist and the X frame
The old school is dead and buried as we know.
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Roger that. Dorian is of course a king - but of the new school.
I think the 93 flex represents the old ideal of flow and the key element of a small waist and the X frame
The old school is dead and buried as we know.
Of course you're right.
But in no way does anyone beat Ronnie from the BACK:
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Of course you're right.
But in no way does anyone beat Ronnie from the BACK:
That's one of if not the craziest shots ever seen.
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Jay Cutler looked very good at the 2003 Mr Olympia. But nobody will ever remember that because Ronnie showed up 30-35lbs heavier than his 2002 showing. Jay placed a very distant 2nd in 2003.
Jay added 15lbs for the 2004, and was much closer to Ronnie... but they both were slowly ruining their physiques
By 2006 Ronnie’s back was not responding anymore
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multi page bodybuilding thread reported to moderators
It's a rarity here but the bodybuilding threads usually are great threads.
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BTW, for those interested 98 Arnold Classic or excuse me, Arnold's Rock & Roll Bodybuilding Championship ;D
After watching Don Long posing i understand why he changed his career of pole dancer.
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I'd say 93 Olympia version of Dorian was better. But Flex looked amazing at the 93 Arnold.
93 Dorian was awesome!
😮
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Jay Cutler looked very good at the 2003 Mr Olympia. But nobody will ever remember that because Ronnie showed up 30-35lbs heavier than his 2002 showing. Jay placed a very distant 2nd in 2003.
Jay added 15lbs for the 2004, and was much closer to Ronnie... but they both were slowly ruining their physiques
By 2006 Ronnie’s back was not responding anymore
I’m digging jay’s back thickness progress through the years (nh)
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I've heard this saying many times, but what does it really mean? Shouldn't the best physique = the best bodybuilder? Why are these not one in the same?
because best physique is subjective just like your best friend or favorite song
best bodybuilder means they best fit the judging criteria for size, symmetry, proportions, balance, structure, conditioning etc whoever has the best combo of this criteria wins
once people understand this, the placings make more sense
E