Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Positive Bodybuilding Discussion & Talk => Topic started by: rhapsody on April 26, 2006, 07:38:10 AM
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A business associate and I are considering opening a true bodybuilding gym and would like some of your advice, input, and opnions to the following:
How big would you want the gym to be (total square feet) ?
How many total pieces of equipment and which pieces of equipment do you
prefer?
What should membership rates be ( per month, per year ) ?
Thanks for you serious input. We appreciate your help. I still have doubts if this could even be a profitable venture.
Stay Healthy
Rhapsody
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Honestly, dont try it :(. Bodybuilders are the smallest percentage of gym goers, yet require the most equipment, weights and maintainence. But if you in LV, I'd join, just make sure you have Db that go to 100lbs.
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Thanks Dnizneer for your input. I guess there really is no interest on Getbig for a true bodybuilding gym or, this is really not the place on the net to get information, opinions, and input as to what bodybuilders really want in a gym Dnizneer thank you for your input, and yes you are probably correct a bodybuilding gym is not a good idea (you can’t even get input from a so–called bodybuilding internet board).
Enough ranting Thank you all, for your time!
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This has been tried a few times here where I live and it always fails. If you are already financially set and are wanting to do this for pure enjoyment then by all means do it. But if money is a factor, and I'm sure it is, I'd avoid this completely. Gyms have to be available to the BB enthusiast, the soccer mom, the average Joe schmo gym rat, and everyone in between...otherwise don't expect to make any money. Think about it, how many actual BB are there in your area? How many hardcore trainers are there? Even if you got everyone of these to sign up I bet you wouldn't be making much money at all.
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Honestly, dont try it :(. Bodybuilders are the smallest percentage of gym goers, yet require the most equipment, weights and maintainence. But if you in LV, I'd join, just make sure you have Db that go to 100lbs.
Agreed.
I own a gym, and can tell you the money is in the general population, not the hardcore crowd.
Also, there is a new business board on getbig here (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?board=42.0) you might want to check out
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It depends what kind of metro area you live in. If you are in a large city there is a lot of compettition out there. I go to a gym in Chicago called Quads its pretty much a hard core bb gym. But it also has lots of cardio and machines there for the average Joe. But voted on of the top 10 gyms last year. Tons of Free weights and benches. The problem they have is its never busy simply because most people rather go to the pretty gyms with nice decor and classes. The ratio of body builders to average couple time a week people is low. You wont make a lot of money at a real hardcore gym unless you incorporate a lot of eye catching stuff. nice locker rooms, cardio classes ie yoga pilates.
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rhaps.....
all this input is correct. it is hard enough to run a "gym" just trying to get membership at a rate where you are making money. "bodybuilders" are a niche market, not only a small percentage, but one that is not economically sound to cater to. at least a curves makes fat ladies feel comfortable.....low overhead, they keep coming back, and theyre in and out in 30 minutes.
what would you put in...or take out of a bodybuilding gym that wouldnt be open to the general public of chest and arm warriors and soccer moms? heavier dumbbells?, an area that they can "pose" in? all of those things can be integrated into a standardized facility.
as far as bodybuilders go....theyll lift where the heavy shit is. theyll grunt and groan, wear gay clothes, and strut around the gym like they own it whether its built for them or not. if you make the facility relatively user friendly for EVERYONE....you might be able to stay open for more than 6 months.
contact powerhouse corporate. they will send you an info packet that will give you a better idea of what to look for when opening a gym. the rule of thumb is this: take your square footage and add a zero. thats how much you will spend in BASIC equipment. 15,000 sq foot facility, $150,000 in basic equipment.
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Thanks for your input everyone!
But let’s just say that we still decide to open a well equipped gym here in Texas! Again how many square feet do you think the gym should be, how many total pieces of equipment, which specific pieces by brand and name would you like to see in it and how much do you think membership should be both monthly and yearly. I realize that I will need to cater to not only soccer moms but also the non competitive men. That the facility would need to be comfortable and not intimidating to anyone who wants to train at our club. Any help will be appreciated. Again thank you to everyone who answered. Nice that I did not get any sarcastic answers.
Train Hard and Stay Healthy !!
Rhaps’
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Thanks for your input everyone!
But let’s just say that we still decide to open a well equipped gym here in Texas! Again how many square feet do you think the gym should be, how many total pieces of equipment, which specific pieces by brand and name would you like to see in it and how much do you think membership should be both monthly and yearly. I realize that I will need to cater to not only soccer moms but also the non competitive men. That the facility would need to be comfortable and not intimidating to anyone who wants to train at our club. Any help will be appreciated. Again thank you to everyone who answered. Nice that I did not get any sarcastic answers.
Train Hard and Stay Healthy !!
Rhaps’
well, you have to start by looking at it demographically.
where is the gym gonna be?
what is the population of the area?
what is the average income of the area?
who are your competitors in the area?
what do they have?
what are you gonna offer your members?
childcare?
aerobics? spinning?
stretching areas?
square footage of lockerooms?
answer these and then start looking at buildings. then you get into:
square footage lease negotiations
membership base to keep the place running
staffing cost
other overhead
then you can see how much you charge
THEN work on equipment
new, used, leased, price per part, warranty upgrades.......
your target base for membership is only like 5-10 miles, so if its too far out...no one will go. if its too close to another gym, your only hurting yourself. a standard gym with areobics and childcare is roughly 12-15,000 sq feet.
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Honestly, dont try it :(. Bodybuilders are the smallest percentage of gym goers, yet require the most equipment, weights and maintainence. But if you in LV, I'd join, just make sure you have Db that go to 100lbs.
1 thing i can suggest you and it is NOT to do the 100lb ymca dumbell mistake. 100lb is poundage most serious guys in the gym use for second set dumbell press....up to 160-200lb is a must for a serious gym
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if you wanna make the street crowd and the hardcore crowd happy then keep them apart... build a regular gym, with a special room off to one side. that's where you put the hardcore gear
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1 thing i can suggest you and it is NOT to do the 100lb ymca dumbell mistake. 100lb is poundage most serious guys in the gym use for second set dumbell press....up to 160-200lb is a must for a serious gym
agreed
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if you wanna make the street crowd and the hardcore crowd happy then keep them apart... build a regular gym, with a special room off to one side. that's where you put the hardcore gear
wooo...not breaking your balls but...
what does a hardcore gymrat use that a regular guy wouldnt use? im being serious.
although its annoying to see a 135 lb dude in the power cage doing bicep curls with 5lbs sticking out on either side of the olympic bar....separation of "hardcore" stuff and "regular" stuff will only create an atmosphere that you dont want from a business standpoint. separation is not the goal if you want to make money...
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Thanks for all of your information, it is greatly appreciated. One last question? What specific pieces of equipment would you like to see in this possible gym we are considering? In other words which pieces of equipment do you wish your gym had or had more than one of - and - which pieces do you absolutely think are a waste of floor space and money. We just want to make sure we have what bodybuilders and athletes want. To be able to please soccer moms, blue collars, and white collars is a little bit easier. Trying to cater to athletes and bodybuilders takes a little more insight and thought, considering we would be competing against large corporate gym chains (i.e.: Gold’s World, 24 Hour etc). Again thanks everybody for your opinions and input!
We do appreciate your views !!
Train Hard and Stay Healthy
Rhaps
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make your hardcore gym just add the shit for the norms like daycare, cardio machines, yoga class, and maybe if you have the money a swimming pool
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Okay, maybe we are putting to much emphasis on equipment. Maybe we should just purchase the cheapest we can find that will not fall apart. So the equipment really does not matter too much to everybody just as long as there are enough machines, benches, dumbbells, and weights. That will make this task a lot easier. But wait is it just the gym that I train at or do people just like to complain about the equipment and how it is not kept up. Maybe you just can’t please gym members!
Train hard and stay healthy
Rhaps
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Thanks for your input everyone!
But let’s just say that we still decide to open a well equipped gym here in Texas! Again how many square feet do you think the gym should be, how many total pieces of equipment, which specific pieces by brand and name would you like to see in it and how much do you think membership should be both monthly and yearly. I realize that I will need to cater to not only soccer moms but also the non competitive men. That the facility would need to be comfortable and not intimidating to anyone who wants to train at our club. Any help will be appreciated. Again thank you to everyone who answered. Nice that I did not get any sarcastic answers.
Train Hard and Stay Healthy !!
Rhaps’
Spacious in terms of overall air space is more important than actual floor sq footage (HIGH ceielings).
Go with some good Hammer machines and the basic DB, Barbell stuff. Make sure you have clean looking durable cardio stuff as well. Be friendly to your members , try to create a family feel and it might ust make it.
Good luck, Howard
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Maybe we can at least get some information this way! What are your:
3 pieces of equipment that you like the most in your gym?
3 pieces of equipment that you wish were in your gym?
3 pieces of equipment that you like the least in your gym?
Thanks for everyone’s advice, input, and opinions!
Train hard and stay healthy
Rhaps
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A business associate and I are considering opening a true bodybuilding gym and would like some of your advice, input, and opnions to the following:
How big would you want the gym to be (total square feet) ?
How many total pieces of equipment and which pieces of equipment do you
prefer?
What should membership rates be ( per month, per year ) ?
Thanks for you serious input. We appreciate your help. I still have doubts if this could even be a profitable venture.
Stay Healthy
Rhapsody
Well if I where you I would remember the one most important factor. A gym must be able to accomadate everyone from beginners, intermediate, advanced and pro bodybuilders that compete. You will never make money in that business with just bodybuilders & fitness athletes alone. I would also advise you put a good juice/suppliment bar where you can sell shakes, water, wrist wraps, belts, clothing, etc. Make sure that you have at least two pairs of every dumbbell going from 2.5lbs to 100lbs and then singles going from 105lbs to at least 160lbs to accomadate the larger bodybuilders that can lift these weights. I would also suggest you spend the extra dough for the best hammer strength and cable equipment. No one will join a gym if the equipment stinks. Space is another important factor. All this said I hope it works out for you. Good luck.
PB
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i would cater at least for both. however u obviously have an idea or done market research.
peronsally id love
to b able to use chalk
power racks
lots of free weights
2-3 flat benches
heavy dumbells (at leat 150lbs no need 4 more really)
sturdy dipping frame
deadlift platform
more bars than stations/benches
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Ah, where to start? I have owned a gym for 35 years now in Sydney, Australia. I have always wanted to have one of the best gyms in the world. I have had an engineering factory since 1981 so design and build most of my gym equipment. The very idea of what a gym is has changed over the years and the equipment has proliferated and improved a lot as well. All gym owners wonder what the formula is to make money. It is no point copying others unless you are buying a franchaise. Golds Gym at Venice is a bodybuilding gym that is profitable so it is possible to have a gym like this. Whether you need to cater to everyone is another thing. The trend is to offer everything and to do that properly you need rooms for cardio, equipment, free weights, aerobics, circuit and child minding. Some have rehab sections. If you have all these services you will need at least 20,000 square feet. I think if you kept cardio machines, equipment and some free weights you could have a super gym in about 10,000 total space. You will need change rooms and offices so you might end up with a floor space of about 7,000 square feet. It might be possible to run the gym with much less staff than you need for the super clubs that have more services. Stick with what you are good at and you might be successful.
We have separate rooms for cardio, pin-loaded equipment, free weights, aerobics, child minding and offices. All up we have about 20,000 square feet and about 80 parking spaces. It is important to have parking adjacent to your club. I like keeping the areas separate for many reasons. Noise, activity and members. The free weights is used mainly by bodybuilders. If you limit the dumbbells to a certain weight you limit who will use your gym. I recommend having several sets of dumbbells and perhaps up to 150 or so pounds for most big guys. You will need special rubber flooring in the free weight area. Get the best dumbbells you can afford. I recommend stainless handles and cast iron plates. You will need lots of mirrors in the free weight area. You would be wise to get at least 6 Olympic sets and possible a few Olympic bars that have other profiles, eg., easy curl bars. Have plenty of plates for everyone and racks for each apparatus. Make sure all benchs have safety rails. That way you cut down on possible injuries. I have designed incline and decline benchs with safety rails. Squat racks have to have safety rails, too. Make sure your benches cannot tip over. Have several drinking fountains available with filtered and cooled water. Have an electronic, accurate scale that weighs up to 550 pounds.
An ideal gym might have several pieces of equipment for each body part. There are so many companies making gym equipment that you could make an exciting gym by having several different machines for each body part. No particular company makes the best pieces for each body part. Try to have as many pieces with weight stacks. There is nothing messier than having plates all over the place. If you want some Hammer equipment then realize not all of their machines are great. Pick a couple and make sure they have weight stacks. They take up less space and don't look so intimidating. You will need ordinary people to help pay for the club. Forget bodybuilders although set your gym up with them in mind. If the bodybuilders don't use equipment then it is probably not that good. You can have sections for legs, arms, chest, back, calves, shoulders, abs, and lower back. Anyone who has trained before will be impressed if they come into a gym that has all the right pieces of gym equipment. You really have to know equipment because opinions vary and be careful about asking others because so many believe they are experts. Make sure the equipment can be used by most people and have big weight stacks to accommodate the strongest users.
It is a good idea to have duplicate pieces of the most used pieces. We have 12 lat pulldown machines. There are many arm stations and many leg extension and leg curl machines. We have 7 leg presses if you count the 2 Nautilus duo squat machines that I modified to make them safer. We have 3 seated calf machines and 2 standing calf machines plus a hack squat calf machine. Some companies are offering apparatus that is multi-purpose and these are popular and easy to use. Again, you could get several of these machines. Install various pieces that women love using. Abductor and adductor machines. Butt blasters and multi-hip devices. If you attract the women you will have men showing up. Install a whole line of machines that suit women and keep those machines to one side of the gym where the women will be comfortable. Trying to get the balance right about dealing with women is a tricky job. I have seen bad set ups work and great set ups fail. You really have to keep changing layouts until you find something that clicks.
My gym has over $1,000,000 worth of gym equipment and some inventions that no other gym has because I made them myself. I have a biceps-supinator machine that I patented that owes me over $100,000 and took me 20 years from conception to completion. I think you could upgrade equipment from time to time and add a new piece of equipment every 3 months. That means you will be adding 4 pieces of equipment every year. For cardio make sure you have the best available equipment and lots of each items. Most gyms have TVs set up so that people can watch while working out. That is expensive to set up but once going should pay for itself.
Get the best instructors you can find and make sure you have sales people on the staff. Do some marketing research and see what people in your area want and what they are willing to pay.
Good luck.
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Have alot of pictures and posters up on the walls for inspiration - like Gold's/Venice. 8)
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Ah, where to start? I have owned a gym for 35 years now in Sydney, Australia. I have always wanted to have one of the best gyms in the world. I have had an engineering factory since 1981 so design and build most of my gym equipment. The very idea of what a gym is has changed over the years and the equipment has proliferated and improved a lot as well. All gym owners wonder what the formula is to make money. It is no point copying others unless you are buying a franchaise. Golds Gym at Venice is a bodybuilding gym that is profitable so it is possible to have a gym like this. Whether you need to cater to everyone is another thing. The trend is to offer everything and to do that properly you need rooms for cardio, equipment, free weights, aerobics, circuit and child minding. Some have rehab sections. If you have all these services you will need at least 20,000 square feet. I think if you kept cardio machines, equipment and some free weights you could have a super gym in about 10,000 total space. You will need change rooms and offices so you might end up with a floor space of about 7,000 square feet. It might be possible to run the gym with much less staff than you need for the super clubs that have more services. Stick with what you are good at and you might be successful.
We have separate rooms for cardio, pin-loaded equipment, free weights, aerobics, child minding and offices. All up we have about 20,000 square feet and about 80 parking spaces. It is important to have parking adjacent to your club. I like keeping the areas separate for many reasons. Noise, activity and members. The free weights is used mainly by bodybuilders. If you limit the dumbbells to a certain weight you limit who will use your gym. I recommend having several sets of dumbbells and perhaps up to 150 or so pounds for most big guys. You will need special rubber flooring in the free weight area. Get the best dumbbells you can afford. I recommend stainless handles and cast iron plates. You will need lots of mirrors in the free weight area. You would be wise to get at least 6 Olympic sets and possible a few Olympic bars that have other profiles, eg., easy curl bars. Have plenty of plates for everyone and racks for each apparatus. Make sure all benchs have safety rails. That way you cut down on possible injuries. I have designed incline and decline benchs with safety rails. Squat racks have to have safety rails, too. Make sure your benches cannot tip over. Have several drinking fountains available with filtered and cooled water. Have an electronic, accurate scale that weighs up to 550 pounds.
An ideal gym might have several pieces of equipment for each body part. There are so many companies making gym equipment that you could make an exciting gym by having several different machines for each body part. No particular company makes the best pieces for each body part. Try to have as many pieces with weight stacks. There is nothing messier than having plates all over the place. If you want some Hammer equipment then realize not all of their machines are great. Pick a couple and make sure they have weight stacks. They take up less space and don't look so intimidating. You will need ordinary people to help pay for the club. Forget bodybuilders although set your gym up with them in mind. If the bodybuilders don't use equipment then it is probably not that good. You can have sections for legs, arms, chest, back, calves, shoulders, abs, and lower back. Anyone who has trained before will be impressed if they come into a gym that has all the right pieces of gym equipment. You really have to know equipment because opinions vary and be careful about asking others because so many believe they are experts. Make sure the equipment can be used by most people and have big weight stacks to accommodate the strongest users.
It is a good idea to have duplicate pieces of the most used pieces. We have 12 lat pulldown machines. There are many arm stations and many leg extension and leg curl machines. We have 7 leg presses if you count the 2 Nautilus duo squat machines that I modified to make them safer. We have 3 seated calf machines and 2 standing calf machines plus a hack squat calf machine. Some companies are offering apparatus that is multi-purpose and these are popular and easy to use. Again, you could get several of these machines. Install various pieces that women love using. Abductor and adductor machines. Butt blasters and multi-hip devices. If you attract the women you will have men showing up. Install a whole line of machines that suit women and keep those machines to one side of the gym where the women will be comfortable. Trying to get the balance right about dealing with women is a tricky job. I have seen bad set ups work and great set ups fail. You really have to keep changing layouts until you find something that clicks.
My gym has over $1,000,000 worth of gym equipment and some inventions that no other gym has because I made them myself. I have a biceps-supinator machine that I patented that owes me over $100,000 and took me 20 years from conception to completion. I think you could upgrade equipment from time to time and add a new piece of equipment every 3 months. That means you will be adding 4 pieces of equipment every year. For cardio make sure you have the best available equipment and lots of each items. Most gyms have TVs set up so that people can watch while working out. That is expensive to set up but once going should pay for itself.
Get the best instructors you can find and make sure you have sales people on the staff. Do some marketing research and see what people in your area want and what they are willing to pay.
Good luck.
Thanks Vince Basile
For your input may I ask if you have any photos of your gym, size of various rooms and layouts, and which equipment companies and pieces did you choose to like the most.
Train hard and stay healthy
rhaps
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I wouldnt mind seeing a gym built for hardcore lifters and bodybuilders. But i agree with alot of people that say most of the people in the gym are average people,and the percent of actual hardcore lifters is very low.
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I also would include Hammer Strength MTS equipment, plate loaded Hammer ,Icarian , Free motion equipment , Atlantis has great equipment ,color coordination I know it sounds fruity but these gyms with the hospital color green is just gross reminds me of going to the nursing home, try like yellow hammer strength or red equipment , some good examples of layout are on the life fitness website, a new gym being built here has this red crocidile like leather and gunmetal silver color equipment, it looks cool when you walk in it stands out . It also has pictures of the great Olympians on the wall , full size photos, 25k sq feet , 24 hr , a shop that has refrigerated drinks like rtd protein , nox drinks , etc, also consider someone to opne a city blends smoothie next door or inside, hope it helps.
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I suppose people should be able to make a living designing and outfitting gyms. Golf professionals make millions designing golf courses. Gym owners make nothing and most people expect free advice about training and set ups. I am giving advice here and not charging anything for it. Use what you like and remember the rest. There are many configurations that might work and the combinations of facilities and equipment is almost endless. It does make a difference what equipment you install if you want to attract bodybuilders and serious trainees. Of course, have good looking girls using your facility or behind the counter and that will bring more customers than the equipment will. There is a population of experienced trainees and they do know good equipment. We do have a dilemma in that bodybuilders are somewhat silly about free weights. In my opinion a good gym wouldn't have any at all. I prefer machines. However, you cannot go against decades of beliefs and most believe all sorts of rubbish such that free weights are better than machines. How would the muscles know what is putting tension on them? To tell the truth you virutally need the best machines possible to be able to build big muscles fast. Some exercises will get you only so far and then you need special machines that allow you to go even further. I don't want to argue about this here because there are way too many experts online. If someone wants to come to my gym I will be glad to give them a demonstration of what I am talking about.
Hammer has this reputation they do not quite deserve. Some of the machines are effective and others are just okay. The seated incline is a favourite and because it is effective many believe that Gary Jones knew how to design other machines for all the muscles using similar principles. Well, I don't care for most of them. It would be a good idea to get some of these machines but the ones with weight stacks and not free weights. Unless you love the sound of weights clanging and people throwing them on the floor then forget free weights. Like I said, have these machines in a separate room. Golds at Venice has an interesting layout and enough machines for enthusiasts. However, since most of that equipment was donated by equipment companies there are rooms with Nautilus or Hammer and so on. That is not the best way to lay out a gym. Function is ideal. Put all the arm machines together and all the chest and so on. That way you will have several machines for each bodypart.
Some names that have decent equipment are Nautilus, Medx, Cybex, Free Motion, Paramount. There is a proliferation of gym equipment and new machines are appearing all the time. The thing to do is take a few really experienced bodybuilders and go and try them out at various gyms or showrooms. Or attend those trade shows where the companies are demonstrating the equipment. I have seen some ingenious engineering solutions but I have seen some mistakes that shouldn't still be occurring in equipment. Biceps and triceps machines should not have pads directly under the elbows because friction on the joint can cause damage. Pivot points have to be right and you can usually try them and see if they are correct. Adjustments have to be easy to make and accommodate all individuals. Well, almost everyone. They don't make machines for 7 foot people or those who weigh over 350 pounds. So if someone is a midget they will not be able to use most machines. Most of the companies are copying each other as far as what they are offering. There haven't been many new machines released lately and that is to be expected because what is there left to make?
White is a good colour for gym equipment because you can then use a bright colour for upholstery that gives the gym a nice look about it. Other colours are fine, too. One gym had all the sections differently coloured. Chest might be yellow, while legs were green and arms red. It is something that can be ordered if you buy all of your equipment from one supplier. However, at the moment I doubt I could endorse any company as providing state of the art equipment across the line. Check out the various equipment that some companies make. Some cost more than others but might not be as good as the engineering and hype suggests. You really have to know equipment. What most gym owners do is buy the cheapest equipment they can get. They sure love to boast about bargains. If the equipment works, is quiet, strong, safe and stylish they you should be okay. Like I said, you should know what you are doing before thinking of opening a gym. If you have to ask people online about what to recommend you are in deep trouble. I am not saying this to be smart but merely point out the gym business is quite a complex one and you had better get things right or you are not going to survive.
I went to Golds Venice the day after Labor Day in September 2004. It was about noon and the place seemed to be packed. That was a surprise to me. So it is possible to make money from a hardcore gym if you set it up right and have heaps of great equipment and a reputation for being the best. That reputation might take years to establish.
Hey, if rhapsody ever opens this gym I hope I get to see it!