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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: War-Horse on April 26, 2006, 03:24:13 PM
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So chic mentioned that a proposal of "over 200lbs and under 200lbs" at the meeting. It was denied by manion and other IFBB brass. It would do wonders to bring the sport back into some realistic physiques. 300lbs on stage is here already and im sure we'll go to 400 in 10 yrs or so.
Its getting ugly, and most guys admit they wouldnt mind looking like "Zane" or "steve reeves".
What an idiotic thing they have done. Great bodies like Victor martinez will chase size and blow theyre guts out...........
Its like Drag racing, yes you can see the top fuel blown nitro cars. But you can also see the bracket racers doing something that is reachable for most of us.
Isnt there room for both in bodybuilding??
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I agree, I love the 2 weight classes. LOL, back to the Future. History always repeats its self.
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Lee Priest would love it.
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two weight classes wouyldnt cut it....there would need to be at least 3 if not 4.
Over/ under 200 only benefits those in the under division...they would all be within 10-15 lbs of each other.
If your in the over 200 class, there could be close to a 100 lb. difference from top to bottom of class.
Larry pepe has a great article in the last issue of MuscleMag which outlines a proposal for weight classes and what it might bring to the table for pro BB...
A great idea IMO...
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yeah, it sure created interests for Ms. Olympia when they had two winners... Eeer?
::)
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chicks you have very strong physique, how many punch it take for you to knock out small horse
lol
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two weight classes wouyldnt cut it....there would need to be at least 3 if not 4.
Over/ under 200 only benefits those in the under division...they would all be within 10-15 lbs of each other.
If your in the over 200 class, there could be close to a 100 lb. difference from top to bottom of class.
Larry pepe has a great article in the last issue of MuscleMag which outlines a proposal for weight classes and what it might bring to the table for pro BB...
A great idea IMO...
Chick, I didn't read the article but would there still be an overall winner?
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WHy don't they just use the NPC classes in the Pros. The should have closer weights. Like in Armwrwstling we had like 11 weight classes. The highest weight difference is around 9 to 11 pounds. I do know one reason why though less weight classes does mean less prize money. If you had more wieght classes you would have to have an awful allot of prize money to spread around to 20+ guys. It
could does add up
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No...just class winners.
Anyone whos ever seen the nationals/ USA, knows having a guy that weighs 175 go up against a guy that weighs 270... both in contest shape, has gone the way of the bigger man 99/100.
Much like in boxing..you wouldnt have a flyweight world champ, box the heavyweight champ...isn't fair.
You would simply have 3-4 "world champions", each could benefit by the title, their companies would benefit, and we would reach a much broader fan base with more potential to appeal to a greater audience.
Which is more impressive...David Henry- 2006 World Champion.... or David Henry- 12th place Mr. Olympia?
Times have changed, and the bar has been raised substancially. It's time to make some changes to bring Pro BB up a few hundred notches...It's no longer fair to pit guys against each other, when there is such a difference in size/ weight.
It's impossible to fairly judge when the bigger man will almost always come out on top...
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I mean if you had classes like in the NPC what 7 or 9 or so. If you gave just $10,000 to the winner that is $90,000 just there. Then 2nd through 5th. And the Olympia prize purse would be in the millions of dollars. That could be one huge reason why only one weight class
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I agree with Chic I think it would be better.Plus...maybe some of these guys would stop ruining their physiques trying to play the size game.The physiques of today are awesome,except for the big guts all that. It does,however,sort of take away from the prestige of being the one true Mr. Olympia,but oh well.I think it would be great and it would be a much needed change.By the way....why /when did they do away with the weight classes before?
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Two weight classes is enough. Under 200 hundred and over 200. Or a "short" class. Who wants to see a bunch of flyweight "bodybuilders" parading around displaying their muscularity? Two classes would give people like Priest and Dim a chance to win - but nobody wants to see skinny "bodybuilders" Those guys should not compete.
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It should be over or under 225 pounds.
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Two weight classes is enough. Under 200 hundred and over 200. Or a "short" class. Who wants to see a bunch of flyweight "bodybuilders" parading around displaying their muscularity? Two classes would give people like Priest and Dim a chance to win - but nobody wants to see skinny "bodybuilders" Those guys should not compete.
So you figure a guy thats 215 could be compared fairly with a guy who weighs 260, 270, or 280?? They would both be in the same class by your standards..
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220 and up.
Under 220.
Problem solved!
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This guy would win the under 145 lb class
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So you figure a guy thats 215 could be compared fairly with a guy who weighs 260, 270, or 280?? They would both be in the same class by your standards..
Then raise the bar to 220 or so. Or create a short class. Two classes would be interesting this way - but I'm saying nobody cares about so called "bodybuilders" that weigh 145 pounds.
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I mean if you had classes like in the NPC what 7 or 9 or so. If you gave just $10,000 to the winner that is $90,000 just there. Then 2nd through 5th. And the Olympia prize purse would be in the millions of dollars. That could be one huge reason why only one weight class
good point.
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I think about 240 lbs would be a decent cut off point. It is after the guys pass the 250-260 lb mark that they start to look overmuscled for their frames.Not saying all but some who obviously look better at a lighter weight...Bob what is your opinion on what the weight classes should be? What are the approximate weights?
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I think a short class might actually be better. Because let's be realistic - Priest is impressive but there is no way guys like him are going to win with that structure. Put him up against people with a similar height/structure with amazing muscularity and he would win.
Bodybuilding is about building muscles not displaying scrawny little 145 pound bodies.
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No...just class winners.
Anyone whos ever seen the nationals/ USA, knows having a guy that weighs 175 go up against a guy that weighs 270... both in contest shape, has gone the way of the bigger man 99/100.
Much like in boxing..you wouldnt have a flyweight world champ, box the heavyweight champ...isn't fair.
You would simply have 3-4 "world champions", each could benefit by the title, their companies would benefit, and we would reach a much broader fan base with more potential to appeal to a greater audience.
Which is more impressive...David Henry- 2006 World Champion.... or David Henry- 12th place Mr. Olympia?
Times have changed, and the bar has been raised substancially. It's time to make some changes to bring Pro BB up a few hundred notches...It's no longer fair to pit guys against each other, when there is such a difference in size/ weight.
It's impossible to fairly judge when the bigger man will almost always come out on top...
The "sport" of BB is just not big enough to support multi - class champions like Pro Boxing.
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They can't change their height - but the short guys can put on plenty of muscle. Put them against each other - but don't penalize bodybuilders for not making weight because they're "too muscular." Short class is the way to go.
On top of that, Lee will be pissed for leaving haha.
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They can't change their height - but the short guys can put on plenty of muscle. Put them against each other - but don't penalize bodybuilders for not making weight because they're "too muscular." Short class is the way to go.
On top of that, Lee will be pissed for leaving haha.
hahahaha. I like Lee. He takes these guys on here too serious when he is online(I doubt he cares too much or even thinks about us other than when on here to be honest)..but he is an awesome bodybuilder.Not his fault he is 5'4....although I will say I was surprised about the article in M.D. ...I honestly always figured he was just have'n fun when he called us Wankers and all that.
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hahahaha. I like Lee. He takes these guys on here too serious when he is online(I doubt he cares too much or even thinks about us other than when on here to be honest)..but he is an awesome bodybuilder.Not his fault he is 5'4....although I will say I was surprised about the article in M.D. ...I honestly always figured he was just have'n fun when he called us Wankers and all that.
I think he DOES care. All these guys got a thin skin. Anyway.....he is an impressive bodybuilder no doubt. There are quite a few guys like him that are short and muscular. We need a short class.
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I think he DOES care. All these guys got a thin skin. Anyway.....he is an impressive bodybuilder no doubt. There are quite a few guys like him that are short and muscular. We need a short class.
Do they really have skin thinner than the average person's?
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Tall and Short class would be best. If not divide them by height I think putting them into something like
190-225lbs
226-255lbs
256lbs +
three classes, cuz theres no possible way you can put them into 2 classes. I seriously dont think theyll have classes though, which is why theyre all trying to play the mass game, hopefully that will change shortly though. There needs to be more guys looking like Dexter out there thats for sure.
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when and why did they do away with the two classes they had in Arnold's time?
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when and why did they do away with the two classes they had in Arnold's time?
Done away with at the 1980 Mr. Olympia.
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when and why did they do away with the two classes they had in Arnold's time?
Because most of the time, everybody was in the short class. There were Olympias with 2-3 guys in the tall class...one year Arnold was the ONLY guy in the class.
Height classses don't work as the average height in B is probably 5'7-5'9...same problem as years ago.
I think weight classes as outlined by NEWDUMBELL303 in this thread is about right...
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Tall and Short class would be best. If not divide them by height I think putting them into something like
190-225lbs
226-255lbs
256lbs +
three classes, cuz theres no possible way you can put them into 2 classes. I seriously dont think theyll have classes though, which is why theyre all trying to play the mass game, hopefully that will change shortly though. There needs to be more guys looking like Dexter out there thats for sure.
This is a great idea. I would add a Sex Appeal class that would be 170-189 pounds and it would be judged by women and gay men.
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Short class - 5'6'' and below.
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Height and weight generally go together...2 height classes simply don't work no matter how you cut it.
a guy 5"7 is not going to weigh above 230-40 in contest shape
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Light Heavyweight - Under 220
Heavyweight - 221-250
Super Heavyweight - Over 250
http://bodybuilding2006.com
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Thanks for link, Lift...
I think Larry pepes article pretty much sums it up....better for all.
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Thank you for aknowledging(sp?) me Chick, mighty cool of you.
As for height, as all have said average height of bodybuilders is very short. I mean its bad when you would put Jay Cutler in the tall class at 5'9 is he? I'd say Tall Class would be 5'8" or 5'9" and up. Henry and Priest would definetely have much better chances this way.
As I said in my last post I personally dont think the IFBB will have classes any time soon, funding is too low as previous posts have said. Perhaps in the future
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You'll have too many winners with weight classes, nobody is going to care. And if you have an overall winner, you're still comparing with everybody again.
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a guy 5"7 is not going to weigh above 230-40 in contest shape
A 5'7'' inch guy has a chance to beat heavier guys. Besides, isn't Gustavo like 5'7''? Make short class 5'6'' and below.
"Height and weight generally go together...2 height classes simply don't work no matter how you cut it."
That doesn't matter. There are other factors being judged besides weight ::) Only extremes (like Priest) prevent someone from having a chance at winning.
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You'll have too many winners with weight classes, nobody is going to care. And if you have an overall winner, you're still comparing with everybody again.
I think that's why they got rid of split classes in the first place ;D
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the weight class idea is idiotic. thr bigger the better. the more symetrical the better....its jduging that you would want to reform. but i dont think there really is a problem..i mean, mark dugdale placed over mustafa muhammad, for gods sake.
looko at it like this....the bigger you are, the more points you get, the more symetrical you are, the more points you get. if your lacking size, you get less points, if you not very aesthetic you lose points. the person with the most points win. so if your big enough you can get away with a little bit of a gut, or maybe being a little top or bottom heavy. or if your symetrical enough, you can get away with being a little smaller.
im sure all of you already knew all this,...im just letting you recognize it.
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the weight class idea is idiotic. thr bigger the better. the more symetrical the better....its jduging that you would want to reform. but i dont think there really is a problem..i mean, mark dugdale placed over mustafa muhammad, for gods sake.
looko at it like this....the bigger you are, the more points you get, the more symetrical you are, the more points you get. if your lacking size, you get less points, if you not very aesthetic you lose points. the person with the most points win. so if your big enough you can get away with a little bit of a gut, or maybe being a little top or bottom heavy. or if your symetrical enough, you can get away with being a little smaller.
im sure all of you already knew all this,...im just letting you recognize it.
Do you think they should weigh and measure the guys?
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the weight class idea is idiotic. thr bigger the better. the more symetrical the better....its jduging that you would want to reform. but i dont think there really is a problem..i mean, mark dugdale placed over mustafa muhammad, for gods sake.
looko at it like this....the bigger you are, the more points you get, the more symetrical you are, the more points you get. if your lacking size, you get less points, if you not very aesthetic you lose points. the person with the most points win. so if your big enough you can get away with a little bit of a gut, or maybe being a little top or bottom heavy. or if your symetrical enough, you can get away with being a little smaller.
im sure all of you already knew all this,...im just letting you recognize it.
define "lacking size"...it is all subjective and a bodybuilder should never have a gutwhen on stage....period.
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define "lacking size"...it is all subjective and a bodybuilder should never have a gutwhen on stage....period.
well compared to the others, obviously. and yes, a bodybuilder can have a gut and still win, if his size and conditioning blows another out of the water.
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well compared to the others, obviously. and yes, a bodybuilder can have a gut and still win, if his size and conditioning blows another out of the water.
If he has a gut he can win....look at Ronnie...but I was saying that he SHOULDN'T have a gut period. If so many guys weren't playing the size game I think we would see less king kong bellies
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You'll have too many winners with weight classes, nobody is going to care. And if you have an overall winner, you're still comparing with everybody again.
I dont agree. Boxing has many world champs. They all have a fan base cuz people relate to certain builds or abilities.
Chic's example of David Henry, "world champion" versus David Henry 12th place olympia, is a good example of how the sport could reach a broader fan base. Right now almost NO ONE wants to look like coleman.......Makes people want to puke. Henry is reachable
Vegas wasnt proud to be hosting the Olympia, no signs no nothing on the strip.....It was like the national conference of librarians was in town and they were humiliated. Hoping no one would notice lol
A banner was on the expo....but finding the building first was a challenge.
Realistic is what we need.
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I don't understand why it's just not like the NPC. Every Pro competed and was brought up in the NPC and the weight classes they have. Why change. In baseball you have the minor leagues and when you make it to he majors the rules don't change. It's still baseball and it's 90' to first and 60'6" from the mound to the plate. I really think it all came down to finances too. It is very expensive to have that many weight classes and give everyone prize money. Just in trophies alone it triples.
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3 classes
1. 199 and under
2. 200 to 230
3. 230 and over
the 200 to 230 would be stacked...
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3 classes
1. 199 and under
2. 200 to 230
3. 230 and over
the 200 to 230 would be stacked...
give 1 dollar in prize money to weight class 1 & 2, and the rest to weight cclass 3.
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I don't understand why it's just not like the NPC. Every Pro competed and was brought up in the NPC and the weight classes they have. Why change. In baseball you have the minor leagues and when you make it to he majors the rules don't change. It's still baseball and it's 90' to first and 60'6" from the mound to the plate. I really think it all came down to finances too. It is very expensive to have that many weight classes and give everyone prize money. Just in trophies alone it triples.
The rules do change from college to pro football though. :D
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I dont agree. Boxing has many world champs. They all have a fan base cuz people relate to certain builds or abilities.
Chic's example of David Henry, "world champion" versus David Henry 12th place olympia, is a good example of how the sport could reach a broader fan base. Right now almost NO ONE wants to look like coleman.......Makes people want to puke. Henry is reachable
Vegas wasnt proud to be hosting the Olympia, no signs no nothing on the strip.....It was like the national conference of librarians was in town and they were humiliated. Hoping no one would notice lol
A banner was on the expo....but finding the building first was a challenge.
Realistic is what we need.
I want to see Ronnie Coleman.
Pro Bodybuilding isn't large and popular enough like boxing, IMO. It's fine enough to just add more contests, not weight classes.
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When weight classes were introduced for the women, it didn't work out very well. In 2000, Valentina Chepiga won the HW and Andrulla Blanchette won the LW Ms. O and they didn't have an overall. The audience was left wondering who the real Ms. O was? They then started having a posedown for the overall title, but that still didn't work well because sometimes the 2nd place HW was better than the LW winner, but was left out of the posedown.
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Those of you who were around when weight classes were used know that the big man always beat the smaller man. With todays judging mentality only the behemoth would win. What we need is a change of attitude on behalf of the judges so that a well developed and pleasing physique becomes the ideal. How many people training really aspire to attain the Coleman physique. I believe this is partially the reason why many people have turned away from competitive bodybuilding both as a spectator and and on a paticipating level.
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two weight classes wouyldnt cut it....there would need to be at least 3 if not 4.
Over/ under 200 only benefits those in the under division...they would all be within 10-15 lbs of each other.
If your in the over 200 class, there could be close to a 100 lb. difference from top to bottom of class.
Larry pepe has a great article in the last issue of MuscleMag which outlines a proposal for weight classes and what it might bring to the table for pro BB...
A great idea IMO...
I think any reasonable move in this direction is needed as well. I favor ht classes over wt.
I am biased to the old AAU Mr America format , what can I say. ;)
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Because most of the time, everybody was in the short class. There were Olympias with 2-3 guys in the tall class...one year Arnold was the ONLY guy in the class.
Height classses don't work as the average height in B is probably 5'7-5'9...same problem as years ago.
I think weight classes as outlined by NEWDUMBELL303 in this thread is about right...
Those numbers are resoanable but how about no pre set limits, just divide the guys up in 3 seperate classes with equal numbers based on ht or wt. Say you have 21 guys at the O, divide them up in 3 different wt classes based on their wts at the show or use ht, etc