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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: Arnold Palmer on May 01, 2006, 05:00:03 PM

Title: Cardio Duration
Post by: Arnold Palmer on May 01, 2006, 05:00:03 PM
Approx how long into cardio does it take to use up your bodys glycogen reserves, and then start mobilizing fat for energy?  I know there are many varriables, but I am talking about jogging at a normal pace or jump roping.  I know there is not exact number for everyone, but any ballpark number of minutes?
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: Always Sore on May 03, 2006, 05:17:25 AM
more than 10 min less then 3 hours but then again i play in a large ballpark. :)
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: headhuntersix on May 03, 2006, 08:53:21 AM
Cardio is the enemy!!!!
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: 4thAD on May 03, 2006, 04:45:34 PM
16 minutes high intensity!

http://www.ast-ss.com/articles/article.asp?AID=97
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: loco on May 04, 2006, 06:33:01 AM
Approx how long into cardio does it take to use up your bodys glycogen reserves, and then start mobilizing fat for energy?  I know there are many varriables, but I am talking about jogging at a normal pace or jump roping.  I know there is not exact number for everyone, but any ballpark number of minutes?

You shouldn't do cardio to burn fat.  You should do short, high intensity cardio to speed up your metabolism.  A high metabolism will burn fat all day and all night long.  Long duration, low intensity cardio is not so good for bodybuilders.  It burns some fat during and shortly after your cardio session, but it does nothing for your metabolism.  Look a long distance runners, very skinny and not very muscular.  Now look at sprinters.  The Max-OT cardio, which somebody else already posted, is a great approach. 
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: Cold on May 06, 2006, 03:03:33 PM
4thAD and LOCO, help me out with this: I want to try this interval high intensity cardio for a couple months and see what happens. As that article suggests, I will use the stationary bike. My question is, should i set the level to max (heaviest pedal load) or minimum (maximum pedal speed)?
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: WOOO on May 06, 2006, 06:27:15 PM
i do 40 mins.... flex wheeler does 2hr/day
did...
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: pumpster on May 07, 2006, 07:04:15 AM
Quote
My question is, should i set the level to max (heaviest pedal load) or minimum (maximum pedal
Varies by bike but the setting should be within a range somewhere between those extremes. Sufficient resistance that real work and sweat is accrued, but not so much that a reasonable speed can't be maintained. Take a look at a Spinning class or video to see this.


Quote
i do 40 mins.... flex wheeler does 2hr/day

did...
No idea what the point is.
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: WOOO on May 07, 2006, 12:39:51 PM

No idea what the point is.

You have no idea what grammar is either.
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: pumpster on May 07, 2006, 12:51:27 PM
Dolt, truly.
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: WOOO on May 07, 2006, 02:52:36 PM
Dolt, truly.
Bump, most truly.
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: 4thAD on May 07, 2006, 09:16:48 PM
This is from the max OT web site on Max OT cardio!


Why 16 minutes?

There are several reasons for the 16-minute Max-OT Cardio duration. All of which lead to greater cardio intensity and greater increases in metabolic rate.

16 minutes is an optimal time span that will allow you to put forth maximum intensity without pacing yourself. It’s important that you do not pace yourself during Max-OT Cardio. Pacing acts to preserve energy instead of expending maximum energy. Durations longer than 16 minutes encourage pacing one's cardio effort.

Mentally, 16 minutes of cardio is far more conducive to putting forth maximum intensity than cardio of longer duration. The “mental” side of Max-OT Cardio, and all training for that matter, is an area of great importance yet rarely explained.

Finally, 16-minutes of maximum intensity cardio will maximize your metabolic rate without tapping into lean muscle tissue for energy.

Putting Max-OT Cardio to Work For You

Now it’s time to rev up your metabolism and spend less time doing it. Less time plus more effort will equal greater results. Greater results in less time – as Ted Nugent would say, “Ya gotta like that!” Below is an outline of Max-OT Cardio high points.

    Max-OT Cardio is performed for 16 minutes.

    Max-OT Cardio is performed on a Recumbent Bike, Stair Climber, or any device that will allow for maximum intensity to be exerted safely and without the need for excessive balance or skill. If you can’t perform your cardio with maximum intensity without the possibility of falling off, tripping, etc. then it’s the wrong type of exercise for Max-OT Cardio.

    Max-OT Cardio is performed with an “Interval” setting. This allows for intermittent resistance levels during the 16-minute sessions resulting in greater overall energy output.

    Each Max-OT Cardio workout is more intense than the one before. Two ways to increase the intensity on a Recumbent Bike are to increase the resistance and/or increase the pedal RPM. Technically this is measured in wattage output. Intesity is measured by distance traveled and calories burned.

    Intensity! Max-OT Cardio is always performed using maximum intensity and effort.

Getting Your Feet Wet

If you are like me, you like to dive into new adventures headfirst. However, Max-OT Cardio is a different animal. You must acclimate to the intensity levels involved. This is necessary both mentally and physically. This adaptation to Max-OT Cardio will ensure you get the maximum benefit from this new and incredibly effective cardio training.

Your first Max-OT Cardio session should be performed at an intensity level only 5 to 10 percent greater than your normal long duration (and now obsolete) cardio intensity. The results from this intro Max-OT Cardio workout will form the basis for your next Max-OT Cardio workout. The distance you record from your first Max-OT Cardio session will be the distance to exceed during your next Max-OT Cardio workout. Your third Max-OT Cardio workout should be more intense than your second and so on.

Within about 2 to 3 weeks of this intensity progression, you’ll be experiencing the full effects of Max-OT Cardio. Each session leads into and builds upon the next. This progressive intensity increase will amplify your metabolic rate and fat burning response far in excess of conventional cardio training.

Understanding Cardio’s Effect on Fat Metabolism

Energy expenditure during cardio is very misunderstood. What is even more misunderstood is energy expenditure after cardio as a result of the cardio. When doing cardio, the primary energy source your body uses is glycogen. Your body uses very little, if any, fat stores for energy during cardio. Even if you haven't eaten food for several hours your body still uses glycogen as its primary energy source. You must let go of the wrong assumption that you are actually burning fat while you are doing cardio. You are not!

The benefit you get from cardio, from a fat burning standpoint (there are many other health benefits), is its effect on your resting metabolic rate. Your resting metabolic rate is the amount of energy your body expends when you are not exerting yourself, at rest. Cardio training, and especially Max-OT Cardio, has a dramatic elevating effect on your body's resting metabolic rate.

When you increase your resting metabolic rate, you increase your body's overall fat burning capabilities - you make your body much more efficient at burning body fat. Max-OT Cardio will make your body a 24-hour a day fat burning furnace. The problem with conventional, long duration, low intensity cardio is that it has minimum impact on increasing your resting metabolic rate. However, long duration, low intensity cardio will deplete glycogen stores. When this happens, you will start primarily utilizing lean muscle for your energy needs. Long duration cardio will break down muscle tissue.

A good real-world example of the difference in effect of Max-OT Cardio and long duration cardio has on athlete’s physiques is to look at sprinters and long distance runners. Sprinters are very lean and extremely muscular. Long distance runners are lanky, frail, with little muscle yet possess higher body fat levels than the sprinters.

Sprinters train in a manner that is very similar to the Max-OT Cardio principles – short burst of maximum intensity - whereas long distance runners train more inline with the conventional cardio approach - low intensity for longer periods of time. What type of physique would you rather have?

Cocked and Loaded

You are ready. You have the foundation of Max-OT Cardio. You are armed with the most explosive metabolic enhancing cardio program in the world. Now it’s up to you to implement Max-OT Cardio program and reap the incredible metabolic rewards.
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: Saskbb on May 08, 2006, 12:14:09 PM
Approx how long into cardio does it take to use up your bodys glycogen reserves, and then start mobilizing fat for energy?  I know there are many varriables, but I am talking about jogging at a normal pace or jump roping.  I know there is not exact number for everyone, but any ballpark number of minutes?

Depends on how many weeks out from a contest, offseason I do 20 min 5 days a week.  Now I'm 5 weeks out I'm up to 2 60 mins (7 days a week) of cardio keeping my heart range in the 65% to 70% range.  I do mix in some high int. 80-85% once in a while but have found by doing lots of long slow steady I can keep my cals up and still make my goal losses of 2 to 2 1/2 pounds per week and still hold my mass.

A lot depends on your body type.  I put on fat real easy so I need to bust my ass to get it off and I'm also an old fart (42) so I need to wake this old tried body up,

Good luck
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: Condor on May 08, 2006, 02:04:48 PM
16 minutes high intensity!

http://www.ast-ss.com/articles/article.asp?AID=97

Have you tried this?  How often are you supposed to do this?  Is it once a day, every day, or more than once?
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: loco on May 08, 2006, 04:35:57 PM
I've tried it, twice a week.  It works, but it hurts too.
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: Saskbb on May 08, 2006, 05:40:36 PM

Great post.

Thanks!  I have a copy of the contest prep bible and found that most pro suggest the long-slow approach.  I know a lot has been written about high int-short duration cardio but I'm old school.  I know it works for my body type.  Only to be Dexter Jackson because what I do for cardio in a week is what he does in 6 months lucky bastered LOL!

Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: 4thAD on May 08, 2006, 06:42:31 PM
Weighed myself and have lost 6lbs in the last two weeks with the MAX OT cardio. It should be done with every work out. 5X per week! Or more if you need it. Max OT cardio will turn your body into a fat burning machine even while not on the bike. I have also been doing an ECA stack with very good results!
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: Pittdawg68 on May 08, 2006, 11:39:44 PM
Quote
Approx how long into cardio does it take to use up your bodys glycogen reserves, and then start mobilizing fat for energy?  I know there are many varriables, but I am talking about jogging at a normal pace or jump roping.  I know there is not exact number for everyone, but any ballpark number of minutes?

I asked the trainer at the gym I used to lift at one time and he said after about 22 or 23 minutes of moderate intensity the body taps into its fat stores. So I try to do at least 40 minutes or so after lifting because if you only do something for half an hour you've only tapped into your reserves for about 8 minutes.
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: loco on May 09, 2006, 06:08:56 AM
I asked the trainer at the gym I used to lift at one time and he said after about 22 or 23 minutes of moderate intensity the body taps into its fat stores. So I try to do at least 40 minutes or so after lifting because if you only do something for half an hour you've only tapped into your reserves for about 8 minutes.

Whether this is true or not, you will burn some fat after 22 to 23 minutes.  You will also continue to burn fat shortly after your workout, but that's it.  Your 40 minute cardio helped you burn some fat but did nothing for your metabolism.  15 minute intense cardio, border line sprinting, may not even burn any fat at all during the 15 minutes, but burn glucose and glycogen instead.  But it will speed up your metabolism tremendously and you'll start burning fat after your workout and continue to burn fat through the day and through the night.  It will continue to burn fat for days and then your metabolism will start going back to normal.  That's when you hit the 15 minute intense cardio again to set the wheel in motion again.  Doing this twice a week is enough for me to lose fat and keep it off.  The rest of the week I lift weights.  I wouldn't mix cardio and weight training on the same day, unless you do one in the morning and the other one in the evening.  They will conflict and interrupt your muscle recovery.
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: Saskbb on May 09, 2006, 07:43:54 AM
Whether this is true or not, you will burn some fat after 22 to 23 minutes.  You will also continue to burn fat shortly after your workout, but that's it.  Your 40 minute cardio helped you burn some fat but did nothing for your metabolism.  15 minute intense cardio, border line sprinting, may not even burn any fat at all during the 15 minutes, but burn glucose and glycogen instead.  But it will speed up your metabolism tremendously and you'll start burning fat after your workout and continue to burn fat through the day and through the night.  It will continue to burn fat for days and then your metabolism will start going back to normal.  That's when you hit the 15 minute intense cardio again to set the wheel in motion again.  Doing this twice a week is enough for me to lose fat and keep it off.  The rest of the week I lift weights.  I wouldn't mix cardio and weight training on the same day, unless you do one in the morning and the other one in the evening.  They will conflict and interrupt your muscle recovery.

Metabolism is much more complex than what you said above.  I wish it was that simple but it isn't. Once you used your atp energy and glycogen your body either uses fat or protein as energy.  Sorry but 15 mins. after your done lifting for and hour or so and done 45 - 60 min of cardio your metabolism returns to "normal",  sorry but the body needs to refuel and and actually digest food.  Depending on what type of carbs you refuel with etc.  and amount of cals.

Metabolism is a long term process that the body goes thou to meet the body's needs to function.  A simple 15 min wind sprint or high int. cardio a few times a week over a 2 week period will have little long term effects. 

There is no quick and easy way to change one's body.  Only thou long term training and hard work.  Most people who have large weight losses are losing more mass than fat.  To really build a good cut body with mass, is slow and steady (once you get over your first 2 weeks) your goal should be 1 1/2 to 2 pounds max.  If you are losing more than that your are losing mass simple!

I guess my point here that there are so many factors involved 1) diet, 2) fat burners (which I perfer taken a min amount) and working my ass off, 3) rest between sets, 4) how hard you lift and what exercises your doing (deadlifts require more energy than bi-curls), 5) if you taking hgh or slim, 6) dosage and type of roids 7) age, 8) sex
9) duration of cardio and type,  10) body type and 11) time trainning.

Noticed #1 was diet, diet in bodybuilding is at least 85%.  Drugs are a short cut that usually results in loss of mass.  T3 when taken in large dosages is an awesome mass burner, more isn't better.  I perfer to keep my carbs high and cardio my fat off.  carbs are the fuel were the fat is burned.

If you want to see if your burning off mass buy a ketone kit and monitor you urine.  Or have your friend smell your breath.  If there is a fruity smell your burning off muscle.
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: loco on May 09, 2006, 07:54:58 AM
Wow, man, I thought we were talking about cardio here.  Yes, I agree that diet is first.  In no way did I mean to say that sprinting is a magic pill for fat loss.  Neither did I mean to say that it is a fast way to lose fat.  I agree that nobody should be losing more than 1 pound of weight a week.  I've been training for 24 years and have competed four times, naturally.  And I have done very well.  So I know what you are talking about.  I used to do the 40 minute cardio and lost fat that way, but 15 minute intense cardio absolutely works better.  It is not easy.  It takes a lot of mental toughness and this is why I never wanted to do it, why many people prefer not to do it.  But it works.  Look at the huge difference between long distance athletes and sprinters.  I now look much better before competition after switching from long, low intensity cardio to short, very intense cardio.  Yes, there are many ways to speed up your metabolism, and this is definitely one of them.
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: 4thAD on May 14, 2006, 09:53:11 AM
I will weigh myself at the gym today! I have been keeping track of my weight since I have started the MAX OT cardio and the ECA stack. I will post the results this afternoon! I am noticeably slimmer in the waiste, and the face! I swear by MAX OT cardio (along with good diet and ECA stack)!
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: Havenbull on May 15, 2006, 08:14:02 PM
I have been doing Max-OT.  It is amazing.
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: haider on May 15, 2006, 09:58:56 PM
Weighed myself and have lost 6lbs in the last two weeks with the MAX OT cardio. It should be done with every work out. 5X per week! Or more if you need it. Max OT cardio will turn your body into a fat burning machine even while not on the bike. I have also been doing an ECA stack with very good results!
wow man u must also be on their AST VP2 Protein proven to work 8 times better than regular protein. Combine that with their AST Creatine HSC and you'll be superhuman fat-burnin muscle-building machine ::)
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: 4thAD on May 18, 2006, 09:35:01 AM
Nope not using any AST products at all! Actually I know nothing about the quality of their supplements...I just like the training program. BTW Im down to 208 4 more lbs.
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: loco on May 19, 2006, 07:20:49 AM
Should I alternate between recumbent bike and stair climber?  Or do the stair climber for a few weeks then switch since I have just started doing this?

That's up to you.  I would alternate between recumbent bike, stair climber and cross trainer (elliptical).  I do this just to keep it interesting and keep it from getting monotonous.  This is so hard and I dread doing it every time.  So I do everything I can to help make myself do it and to really push myself through it.  An MP3 player with good music helps a lot too.
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: Oldschool Flip on May 30, 2006, 11:20:21 AM
You shouldn't do cardio to burn fat.
Lol, that's an idiotic statement.
Quote
You should do short, high intensity cardio to speed up your metabolism.  A high metabolism will burn fat all day and all night long.
This is true to a point, but as you get older your metabolism slows down. Fact.
Quote
Long duration, low intensity cardio is not so good for bodybuilders.
Okay, you must not be a bodybuilder. Almost all bobybuilders due low intensity, long duration cardio so they don't "burn up muscle". ::)
Quote
It burns some fat during and shortly after your cardio session, but it does nothing for your metabolism. Look a long distance runners, very skinny and not very muscular.
Bodybuilders increase their metabolism by increasing their "muscle mass". Dude are you a certifed trainer? 
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: WOOO on June 01, 2006, 03:32:43 PM
I've tried it, twice a week.  It works, but it hurts too.
i am doing max ot cardio for the first time... this is my 3rd week... 2 sessions per week... it's freakin awesome
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: knny187 on June 02, 2006, 11:12:53 AM
Single session of Cardio should not exceed 45 minutes in duration. (Of course depending on intensity levels & what intended goals are ie...weight loss/body fat reduction).

Preferably....two sessions are recommended (morning & late afternoon) with a minimum of 30 minutes in appropriate target HR zone.

I've always recommended elliptical training both forward & backwards typically 5 minutes forward....5 minutes reverse (repeat).  Stair Climbers, The Gauntlet, treadmills are good....(anything thats weight bearing).

MAX-OT is a good program to follow.....so is another form called Ready Set Go which incorporates 30 seconds of max intensity (sprinting) followed by a 1 minute 30 second moderate intensity.  Requires only 8 times to be performed in one cardio session.

http://www.readysetgofitness.com/
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: loco on June 02, 2006, 11:36:32 AM
Lol, that's an idiotic statement.
Are you calling me an idiot? 

Okay, you must not be a bodybuilder. Almost all bobybuilders due low intensity, long duration cardio so they don't "burn up muscle".
LOL.  I must not be a bodybuilder?  Okay, "Oldschool".  Yes, you are correct.  Most bodybuilders today do, not "due", but do low intensity, long duration cardio.  So what?  Does that make it better?  Has weight training not evolved since the 50s?  Will cardio training not evolve too?  Being old school can be good, but being ignorant is not.  Low intensity, long duration cardio is better for endurance trainers.  I did not say it was not good at all for bodybuilders, just not the best.

Bodybuilders increase their metabolism by increasing their "muscle mass".
True, but increasing muscle mass is not the only way to increase your metabolism.  Bodybuilders increase their metabolism in many different ways, nutrition, increasing muscle mass, etc.  Building muscle mass is a slow process.  High intensity cardio is a quicker way of speeding up your metabolism.

Dude are you a certifed trainer?

No, I am not an ignorant certified trainer.  I do consulting work for the government, engineering, software development, computer network security, etc.  I just happen to love bodybuilding and nutrition too, and I've been training non-stop and also competing for the past 24 years.

Oldschool Flip, I'd advice against going online and insulting people you don't know.  Please don't be so ignorant as to think that in an era of cyber warfare, you are perfectly safe behind your computer monitor and behind your keyboard.  If you piss off the wrong person here, you better have the huevos to accept the consequences.

Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: ~weed~ on June 02, 2006, 12:03:27 PM
Hey loco -  when you do the elliptical do you go forward and reverese?


  lovin/hatin the MAX Cardio!!   >:( 



   


  loco answer my question please
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: ~weed~ on June 02, 2006, 12:04:43 PM
i am doing max ot cardio for the first time... this is my 3rd week... 2 sessions per week... it's freakin awesome

    I am doing it 4-5 times a week  (or every time I get to the gym)
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: loco on June 02, 2006, 12:12:04 PM

  loco answer my question please

I'm sorry, ~weed~/~flower~!  I didn't see your question before.
When I do the elliptical, I go forward only.  I have not tried reverse, but I would think that it would be hard to keep up the same high intensity going in reverse since it is so awkward for me.
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: ~weed~ on June 02, 2006, 03:52:36 PM
I figured just forward, thanks,   :)
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: knny187 on June 02, 2006, 04:28:50 PM
 ::)
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: WOOO on June 02, 2006, 05:44:37 PM
    I am doing it 4-5 times a week  (or every time I get to the gym)
i find it hard to work it in around my leg workout...
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: ~weed~ on June 03, 2006, 09:00:12 AM
i find it hard to work it in around my leg workout...

 
  I do quads and hams on different days.   I still do Max OT, I just wouldn't do it on the bike those days. 
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: Princess L on June 03, 2006, 10:23:08 AM
    I am doing it 4-5 times a week  (or every time I get to the gym)

I'm pressed for time and too lazy to search and read today.  Anyone care to give a quick synopsis of Max OT cardio or is there a concise place to read about it?
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: lilwoday09smb on June 03, 2006, 11:01:36 AM
any body do crdio first thing in the am?
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: Dos Equis on June 03, 2006, 11:49:33 AM
any body do crdio first thing in the am?

Yep.  I have a treadmill and usually roll out of bed around 4 a.m., or shortly thereafter, and do 40 minutes.  I lift in the evenings.  I just started this a few months ago, in part because when I lift in the evenings it is typcially after a long work day and I have very little energy left for cardio.  It's working out pretty well. 
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: ~weed~ on June 03, 2006, 02:11:43 PM

I'm pressed for time and too lazy to search and read today.  Anyone care to give a quick synopsis of Max OT cardio or is there a concise place to read about it?


http://www.ast-ss.com/articles/article.asp?AID=97 (http://www.ast-ss.com/articles/article.asp?AID=97)
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: WOOO on June 04, 2006, 02:07:36 AM

http://www.ast-ss.com/articles/article.asp?AID=97 (http://www.ast-ss.com/articles/article.asp?AID=97)
dude, you work too hard!  ;D
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: mancow on June 04, 2006, 06:43:25 PM
Here is some good cardio information http://www.rippednaturally.com/bodybuilding_cardiovascular_exercise_lose_fat_from_metabolism.html

Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: loco on June 05, 2006, 07:29:37 AM
Here is some good cardio information http://www.rippednaturally.com/bodybuilding_cardiovascular_exercise_lose_fat_from_metabolism.html

mancow,
great article!  Thanks!
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: WOOO on June 05, 2006, 03:07:44 PM
yeah, that was a good read.     :)

i thought it looked like a lot of bla.... but if ~flower~ read it and liked it... well... be back in 5...
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: Oldschool Flip on June 05, 2006, 04:43:27 PM
Are you calling me an idiot?
By all means, no but to generalize that cardio is "not" a good way to burn fat is by no means an "intelligent" statement.
Quote
LOL.  I must not be a bodybuilder?  Okay, "Oldschool".  Yes, you are correct.  Most bodybuilders today do, not "due", but do low intensity, long duration cardio.  So what?  Does that make it better?  Has weight training not evolved since the 50s?  Will cardio training not evolve too?  Being old school can be good, but being ignorant is not.  Low intensity, long duration cardio is better for endurance trainers.  I did not say it was not good at all for bodybuilders, just not the best.
LOL, I use "Oldschool" for the type of music I listen to! Anyway, I agree that there is new info and training updates all the time, and I have to be responsible to read, assess and see if it applies to myself or people I give instruction to. Someone who is a bodybuilder (trying to gain as much lean muscle as they want) has a different response to cardio, then someone who just comes in to stay fit. By all means depending on the "goal" of the person, their physical fitness level and tolerance for consistentcy, will help them to decide which fat burning program works best for them.
Quote
True, but increasing muscle mass is not the only way to increase your metabolism.  Bodybuilders increase their metabolism in many different ways, nutrition, increasing muscle mass, etc.  Building muscle mass is a slow process.  High intensity cardio is a quicker way of speeding up your metabolism.
Agreed, but that type of cardio is counter-productive to MOST bodybuilders because of the muscle loss. Now for someone who wants increase their metabolism and has no further goal to get any "bigger", I would say that this is a great way to do it.

Quote
No, I am not an ignorant certified trainer.  I do consulting work for the government, engineering, software development, computer network security, etc.  I just happen to love bodybuilding and nutrition too, and I've been training non-stop and also competing for the past 24 years.
Dude, I'm not ignorant, I am just counter-balancing your overall statement. If you see I did agree with you on points, but I also disagreed on others.

Quote
Oldschool Flip, I'd advice against going online and insulting people you don't know.  Please don't be so ignorant as to think that in an era of cyber warfare, you are perfectly safe behind your computer monitor and behind your keyboard.  If you piss off the wrong person here, you better have the huevos to accept the consequences.
Advising me for insulting you? If you take what I said as "insulting" then maybe anger management is a class you should take. I said nothing insulting. Reread what I posted and point out where I was "insulting". We share advice here (for some people anyway) and if some questions arise as to why that advice was given, then whomever gave it should be able to respond with why they believe it. Loco don't THREATEN people like that because you're into COMPUTER NETWORK SECURITY. That's an abuse of power and a FEDERAL OFFENSE. Some people get rubbed the wrong way based on what they "feel" is an attack, but if I was attacking you I probably would have called you names, made baseless attacks etc. I'm not a "bad" guy here.
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: loco on June 05, 2006, 05:58:41 PM
that type of cardio is counter-productive to MOST bodybuilders because of the muscle loss. Now for someone who wants increase their metabolism and has no further goal to get any "bigger", I would say that this is a great way to do it.

What?  Now short, high intensity cardio causes muscle loss and long, low intensity cardio does not?  That is completely backwards.  Explain why long distance runners are so skinny while sprinters are so muscular?  You are either arguing for the sake of argument or you are just misleading people just to be mischievous.  Yes, somebody who already has a fast metabolism does not need to speed it up any more if the goal is to gain muscle.  But that is not what we are talking about here.   We are talking about losing fat while maintaining muscle.  Why would someone with a super fast metabolism be doing any form of cardio anyway, if that person's goal is to gain or maintain muscle mass?  Sorry, I don't understand what you are talking about!

Loco don't THREATEN people like that because you're into COMPUTER NETWORK SECURITY. That's an abuse of power and a FEDERAL OFFENSE.

LOL...you are so naive.  Threat? Warning?  Lesson?  Pick one.  I don't care.
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: Oldschool Flip on June 05, 2006, 06:51:50 PM
What?  Now short, high intensity cardio causes muscle loss and long, low intensity cardio does not?  That is completely backwards.  Explain why long distance runners are so skinny while sprinters are so muscular?  You are either arguing for the sake of argument or you are just misleading people just to be mischievous.  Yes, somebody who already has a fast metabolism does not need to speed it up any more if the goal is to gain muscle.  But that is not what we are talking about here.   We are talking about losing fat while maintaining muscle.  Why would someone with a super fast metabolism be doing any form of cardio anyway, if that person's goal is to gain or maintain muscle mass?  Sorry, I don't understand what you are talking about!
Sorry, here maybe you'll believe the article from above:


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Why NOT do the same "fat burning phase" cardio sessions with your gaining muscle phases? Cause like I said, this will stop you from gaining muscle along with fat. Your goal during the gaining muscle phase is to slow your metabolism down a bit so you can gain muscle. Doing cardio will prevent this. But, like I said, short sprints will not hinder muscle mass gains, while keeping your fat in check as best as possible.


You cannot tell me that TRIATHLON Competitors are skinny and frail, and they DO ENDURANCE training. They aren't bodybuilders, but they are not "skinny" either. I know most sprinters also squat and use the leg press, to create explosive power whereas marathon or long distance runners rarely do and when they do it's not to gain muscle size. There are so many other factors involved. And again I said for a bodybuilder because they want to get as much mass as they desire as stated above.
Why so condesending in your remarks? I believe in the HIIT and Max OT methods. It applies to some and not to others. To just believe that just high intensity cardio is the ONLY method to burn fat is wrong. Again I'm going off the previous statement you made:
Long duration, low intensity cardio is not so good for bodybuilders. It burns some fat during and shortly after your cardio session, but it does nothing for your metabolism.
Most bodybuilders are not TRYING TO INCREASE their metabolism but slow it down as stated in the above quote. So for the bodybuilder, a lower to moderate intensity cardio seesion is more "feasible" in it's effects on them.

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Another study published by Ballard, et al in the same journal (51(2):142-6, 1990) showed identical findings. High (80-90% VO2max) versus low (40-50% VO2max) intensity rates were compared in two groups with duration carefully controlled to ensure each group burned the same number of calories.

The high intensity group exercised for only 25 minutes and the low intensity group for 50 minutes...

***both groups lost the same amount of body fat! ***

Keep in mind BOTH approaches worked, but the high intensity group got it done in half the time!

Regardless of whether your cardio sessions are 20 minutes, 30 minutes, 45 minutes, or whatever, the higher the intensity during that time period, the more TOTAL calories you will burn. The more TOTAL calories you burn, the more fat you burn.

Although many factors are involved in exercise-induced fat loss, the most important factor is the total number of calories burned, NOT whether the calories burned are fat or carbohydrate.

It's also important to consider energy expenditure after the workout, not just the calories burned during the workout. Higher intensities not only burn more calories per unit of time, but they also elevate your metabolism more at rest after the workout is over. This post workout increase in metabolic rate is known as "excess post exercise oxygen consumption" or EPOC for short.

It has been proposed, based on the results of several studies comparing the amount of calories burned at rest after low intensity versus high intensity exercise, that HIIT is a superior method of fat loss due to its effect on post workout metabolic rate.

Clearly, HIIT is the logical protocol of choice if you are healthy, already fit and you have little time to work out.

However, it's also logical that time permitting, more frequent and longer duration exercise might cause even greater overall fat loss if intensity is sufficient, simply because more total calories can be burned over the course of a week.

Some people CANNOT do HIGH INTENSITY cardio for various reasons. And although low to medium intensity cardio would be done on a longer duration, it will still burn fat off the body.


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LOL...you are so naive.  Threat? Warning?  Lesson?  Pick one.  I don't care.
Call it what you want, but if you are what you say you are, you have the capability of doing what you said. I'm just covering all bases.
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: Bolo on June 11, 2006, 04:26:51 PM
alright.....i have a recumbent bike at home i had for the last 2 weeks....ive been doin 35 mins of moderate cardio every other day......now i wanna try the max ot on it....so hows do i do it....16 mins.......so 30 secs sprint......1 min and a half moderate?.......whut should the level of resistance be?
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: Saskbb on June 12, 2006, 02:38:57 PM
LOL,

I comp. this weekend.  I was ripped to the bone and full---- x-mas tree right up my back.  I did a long slow cardio. 

SaskBB

PS And I won!
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: Hedgehog on June 12, 2006, 03:06:36 PM
alright.....i have a recumbent bike at home i had for the last 2 weeks....ive been doin 35 mins of moderate cardio every other day......now i wanna try the max ot on it....so hows do i do it....16 mins.......so 30 secs sprint......1 min and a half moderate?.......whut should the level of resistance be?

Set the resistance at fairly light, or moderate. You want to have a cardio workout, not a leg workout.

Try to be a bit competitive with yourself. If you have a counter for mileage, check how far you get each time.

The first time you go pretty gently. And every workout you try to slightly beat that PR of yours.

YIP
Zack
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: lilwoday09smb on June 12, 2006, 03:13:24 PM
thats really the only thing i dont like about  the max ot, the bike kills my legs, instead of a bike i actually go to a school and run. i just run 16 minutes as hard as i can adds up to about 2.5 miles. but afterwards im dead. however there is no worry about the treadmill or bike. i also do longer cardio on a stepper
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: WOOO on June 12, 2006, 03:51:18 PM
thats really the only thing i dont like about  the max ot, the bike kills my legs, instead of a bike i actually go to a school and run. i just run 16 minutes as hard as i can adds up to about 2.5 miles. but afterwards im dead. however there is no worry about the treadmill or bike. i also do longer cardio on a stepper
that's not too bad, but i bet that you'll find the bike very challenging... i use a Life Fitness upright bike doing the "Kilamanjaro" hills program for 16 minutes at level 9.... holy shit... my AVERAGE heart rate for the duration today was 167 beats/minute and I covered 6.12 miles of imaginary territory... sometimes i think that i can almost see God...
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: whoischa on November 12, 2008, 07:05:10 PM
what do you guys think about doing this in the morning first thing?
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: danielson on November 12, 2008, 07:10:32 PM
Approx how long into cardio does it take to use up your bodys glycogen reserves, and then start mobilizing fat for energy?  I know there are many varriables, but I am talking about jogging at a normal pace or jump roping.  I know there is not exact number for everyone, but any ballpark number of minutes?

I drank 40 of your Arizona lite drinks in the past 5 days. They are fantastic.
Title: Re: Cardio Duration
Post by: benz on November 12, 2008, 07:11:11 PM
cardio? CARDIO? dude, theres eca, thats all you need  ;D