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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Nutrition, Products & Supplements Info => Topic started by: WOOO on May 29, 2006, 04:01:57 PM
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I read about this study in MD. It showed that drinking 450ml (just about 2 cups) of red wine per day caused no increase in abdominal fat or body weight... Anyway, the benefits of red wine on the circulatory system are well documented and I have started drinking some regularly...
Right now I am having about 375ml per day (half a bottle).... i totally love the obvious relaxing effect, and see very little wrong with this, I mean most of Europe does the same thing....
Anyway, I am wondering if anyone else regularly consumes red wine? Others have stated that it might speed recovery and boost testosterone levels.
All I know is that it makes the evenings groovy.
Discuss?
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i drink red wine on a regular basis, it helps with vascularity and is cheaper then no2 or no-explode....
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i drink red wine on a regular basis, it helps with vascularity and is cheaper then no2 or no-explode....
haha, i have noticed that too
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I read about this study in MD. It showed that drinking 450ml (just about 2 cups) of red wine per day caused no increase in abdominal fat or body weight... Anyway, the benefits of red wine on the circulatory system are well documented and I have started drinking some regularly...
Right now I am having about 375ml per day (half a bottle)...
I used to be quite the wine (red) snob, had one or two glasses a few nights a week, but for the last several years, not so much. Maybe once every month or two. As long as it doesn't come in a box, I'm not too fussy :P I've got 8 or 9 bottles here; maybe it's time to break out the old tradition. :D
As far as health benefits, I believe 1 glass (4 ounces)/day for women and up to 2 for men is what is considered heart healthy.
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I used to be quite the wine (red) snob, had one or two glasses a few nights a week, but for the last several years, not so much. Maybe once every month or two. As long as it doesn't come in a box, I'm not too fussy :P I've got 8 or 9 bottles here; maybe it's time to break out the old tradition. :D
As far as health benefits, I believe 1 glass (4 ounces)/day for women and up to 2 for men is what is considered heart healthy.
you're correct
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What up WOOO? I also drink red wine about three times a week! Paul Cribb recommends it! I don't know if you can access this, but I'll try:
http://www.ast-ss.com/dev/qa_search/full_text.asp?ID=3014
If you cant Ill post it! Sorry for the long post!
Q: During the weeks before a competition is it alright to have a glass of red wine and if so, how many per week?
A: It may sound contradictory, but I believe that red wine should be a part of every bodybuilder’s diet. Small amounts of this beverage on a regular basis will not only provide numerous anti-cancer effects, the components found in red wine also appear to enhance fat metabolism.
Resveratrol is the active ingredient thought to be responsible; its found in dark grapes but a particularly potent, bioavailable source is red wine. Resveratrol has been shown to dramatically increase the rate at which cells metabolize fat.I’ll give you an idea of how much I believe in the health benefits of resveratrol and red wine.
Previously I never drank red wine as I never really cared for its taste at all. However, based on the steadily accumulating health benefits of this drink, I’ve trained myself to have a half-glass of red wine with my evening meal. This small amount is all that’s required to provide some rather powerful benefits, and this amount can be calculated into the pre-contest calorie intake of most bodybuilders.
I’m not advocating that consuming large amounts of red wine is going to get you ripped. Not for a second. Alcohol is alcohol; a calorie-dense nutrient that acts a lot like fat in promoting calorie storage. However, bodybuilders need to get their heads around the idea that science is unveiling previously “hidden” compounds in regular foods that have profound benefits to our metabolism and physiology, and sometimes these compounds are found in foods that are not your typical bodybuilding staples. Smart bodybuilders will incorporate this new research into their diets and reap the benefits.
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Just eat grapes instead. Same health benefits without the alcohol (but not as much fun).
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Just eat grapes instead. Same health benefits without the alcohol (but not as much fun).
not true... grapes are good for you, but many of the beneficial compounds in wine are created during the wine making process.
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Not trying to rain on your parade as all the health benefits are true but you must remember the additional calories your are putting in which could indirectly increase ab fat i:e gut......
I love a nice glass myself once and a while
Drink on!
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not true... grapes are good for you, but many of the beneficial compounds in wine are created during the wine making process.
What beneficial compounds? Hard to believe grapes become healthier by spoiling.
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don't forget the negative effect on testosterone levels...
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What are the negative affects on test???
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Research shows that even moderate consumption of alcohol affecst all three parts of the HPG Axis, a system of endocrine glands and hormones involved in male reproduction and, in particular, is associated with the lowering of testosterone levels.
That being said, I drink on occasion, but I do so fully aware that Alcohol is the bodybuilder's enemy number 1, not just because of the test. factor but also numerous other adverse effects.
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I think the benefits of one glass of red wine a day far outweigh the adverse side affects!
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I think the benefits of one glass of red wine a day far outweigh the adverse side affects!
absolutely... anyway, i am a purely recreational lifter.. i do not mind being above 10% BF... the wine is worth it!
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... the wine is worth it!
Amen to that.
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I think the benefits of one glass of red wine a day far outweigh the adverse side affects!
^ Concur
4th, would you please do me a huge favor ???
Change your avatar. It's very disturbing. :-X
Thanx in advance.
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I try to drink 4oz red wine every night with my dinner.
Red wine improves fat metabolism. The extra calories will make you fat? Who said that they are extra calories? If a glass of wine has 50 calories, then eat 50 calories less from other carbs in the day. Make it part of your total daily calorie intake. Red wine also helps you relax which helps with muscle recovery. It improves blood circulation and helps prevent heart decease. It lowers your blood sugar and helps prevent diabetes. Heck, unless you are a recovering alcoholic, I don't see why you shouldn't have a glass of red wine every day. All of the benefits are well worth it.
And no, you will not get the same benefits from grapes, just as you won't get the same benefits from raw tomatoes as you do from cooked tomatoes. Red wine and plain grapes are not the same.
Will somebody please post a link to a study showing that red wine negatively affects your testosterone levels? I am not saying that there is not a study out there. I'm just curious because I've read a lot on this subject and have never seen anything like this. I've actually found nothing negative on red wine.
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Note to self: Read this when you come back from the gym!
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I try to drink 4oz red wine every night with my dinner.
Will somebody please post a link to a study showing that red wine negatively affects your testosterone levels?
It's not red wine per se, it's alcohol contained in red wine and beer, etc. It's the same chemical whether you consume it in whiskey out of a paper bag, or in the form of red wine in a $100 wine glass. This is just one study on the effects of alcohol on test. which I found easily on yahoo, I'm sure you could find many more.
"Alcohol and the Male Reproductive System"
pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh25-4/282-287.pdf
See also Alcohol and Bodybuilding
www.mindandmuscle.net/magmain.php?issueID=4&pageID=59
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^ Concur
4th, would you please do me a huge favor ???
Change your avatar. It's very disturbing. :-X
Thanx in advance.
that avatar is godly
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"Acute ingestion of ethanol has been fairly consistently shown to significantly suppress testosterone production in both animals and humans, adults and adolescents. We will first look at the mechanisms involved, then turn to studies looking at actual testosterone levels."
Acute would be regular (3 or more times per week) consumption of 4-6 drinks or more... not 1-2 drinks...
http://www.food.leeds.ac.uk/mp/diabetes/front%20page/RED%20WINE1.htm
Shows the other side of the coin:
"Different studies have shown that a long-term exposure to alcohol is associated with an improvement in insulin sensitivity. A recent study which aims is to assess the role of acute moderate alcohol intake on insulin sensitivity and insulin secretion in comparable subjects with and without type 2 diabetes. These scientists have shown that acute alcohol consumption increases insulin sensitivity and improves insulin action without affecting beta-cell secretion. This effect may be partly due to the inhibitory effect of alcohol on lipolysis."
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that avatar is godly
What am I missing ???
:-X
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And no, you will not get the same benefits from grapes, just as you won't get the same benefits from raw tomatoes as you do from cooked tomatoes. Red wine and plain grapes are not the same.
I think it would be more accurate to compare raw tomatoes and rotten tomatoes. Isn't wine basically fermented grape juice?
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I think it would be more accurate to compare raw tomatoes and rotten tomatoes.
Bad analogy Beach :-X
In a nutshell........
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/heart/9907/06/wine.heart/index.html
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Bad analogy Beach :-X
In a nutshell........
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/heart/9907/06/wine.heart/index.html
I'll post some information about the "French Paradox" tomorrow (when I can pull a book from my office shelf), but this article says the "beneficial compounds" in wine are grapes. The article then makes a leap by saying grape juice doesn't preserve these compounds as effectively as wine (i.e., doesn't address grapes vs. wine):
Important chemical compounds
A possible explanation for wine's health effects lies in what it's made from: Grapes and other fruits are loaded with phenolic chemical compounds called flavonoids, as well as other antioxidant compounds. These compounds have been shown to reduce the artery-clogging propensities of low-density lipids (LDL), the "bad" form of cholesterol, as well as inhibit the formation of blood clots. In fact, one of the wine and heart disease studies also found that fruit consumption itself led to lower cardiovascular disease mortality -- just drinking grape or other juice and eating fresh fruits may suffice to improve heart health. This is especially good news for nondrinkers.
Wine's special delivery
But wine presents these flavonoids and antioxidants to the body in a way that juices do not. During the course of processing ordinary juice, the phenolic compounds are largely degraded by their exposure to oxygen, dramatically lowering levels of the heart-helping chemical substances. Wine making, with its anaerobic process (that is, one not exposed to oxygen), preserves these. Juice is still "good for the heart," but perhaps not as good as wine.
A glass or two of wine each day may be good for your heart. Other alcoholic beverages, taken in moderation, may give somewhat less benefit. Eating a diet low in saturated fats is certainly wise, especially if it includes lots of fresh fruits and juices. Whatever it takes to get your heart health in shape, you should definitely do it -- and wine may be part of the solution.
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Couldn't find the book I was thinking about. I read a long time ago that the French Paradox was actually a myth. Here is the gist of what I recall reading (taken from a web site):
Heard it on the e-vine
by Martin Field
French paradox - hit or myth?
In 1995 "60 Minutes" ran a program called The French Paradox where they investigated France's comparatively low incidence of death from heart disease and questioned how a country famous for its diet of rich foods could maintain its population in good cardiovascular health.
The "60 Minutes" expert crew alleged that this low mortality rate was due to the fact that France was a world leader in wine consumption and that wine, particularly red, counteracted the adverse effects of "bad" cholesterol. Great news for red wine drinkers: just eat like the French, drink a few glasses of red every day and Voila! avoid the risk of heart attack. Suddenly red wine was promoted as a health drink almost on a par with orange juice, sales rocketed and winemakers were delighted.
It couldn't last. In the May 29 issue of the British Medical Journal (www.bmj.com) authors Law and Wald argued that the low incidence of heart disease in France could be accounted for by factors other than wine consumption. As well as citing significant underreporting by French doctors of deaths from heart disease, they offered a time lag theory of to explain the paradox.
"We propose that the difference is due to the time lag between increases in consumption of animal fat and serum cholesterol concentrations and the resulting increase in mortality from heart disease - similar to the recognised time lag between smoking and lung cancer. Consumption of animal fat and serum cholesterol concentrations increased only recently in France but did so decades ago in Britain…" Their article also asserted that although there is evidence of a correlation between alcohol consumption and lower heart disease this occurs with consumption of all types of alcoholic drinks, not just wine.
Acknowledging the Law and Wald hypothesis at the European Society of Cardiology (www.esc.be) conference in Barcelona early September, Dr Michel de Lorgeril further pointed out that French men have one of the highest alcohol-related premature death rates in Europe, including death caused by cirrhosis of the liver and gastrointestinal cancer. And to put the final nail in the paradoxical coffin (so to speak) he added, "French men have a lower average life span than others in Europe."
The French paradox is apparently no more.
What to do? Drink alcohol in moderation, eat less fatty foods, exercise regularly…and hope for the best.
© Martin Field
http://www.stratsplace.com/martin/french_paradox.html
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Bad analogy Beach :-X
In a nutshell........
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/heart/9907/06/wine.heart/index.html
Didn't like my analogy, Princess? :)
Beach,
A tomato is a tomato, right? Yet cooked tomatoes have health benefits that raw tomatoes do not. Just because wine is made of grapes does not mean fresh grapes provide the same health benefits as wine does.
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It's not red wine per se, it's alcohol contained in red wine and beer, etc. It's the same chemical whether you consume it in whiskey out of a paper bag, or in the form of red wine in a $100 wine glass. This is just one study on the effects of alcohol on test. which I found easily on yahoo, I'm sure you could find many more.
"Alcohol and the Male Reproductive System"
pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh25-4/282-287.pdf
See also Alcohol and Bodybuilding
www.mindandmuscle.net/magmain.php?issueID=4&pageID=59
Rambo,
What is this?
"Chronic alcoholics"?
"I would not consider it unusual for a 200lb person to put down 20 drinks on a good Friday night"?
This has nothing to do with what we are talking about here. We are talking about 4oz - 16oz red wine a day. I thought you were talking about a study showing that moderate consumption of red wine negatively affects testosterone levels. I wasn't talking about studies showing the side effects of heavy drinking. If fact, drinking 3+ glasses of red wine a day not only wipes out all of the benefits, but it adds all of the side effects of drinking too much alcohol.
Personally, I don't like the taste of red wine. I drink it for the health benefits. Other than that, I do not drink nor do I recommend heavy drinking to anybody. Moderation is the key.
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Resveratrol is the active ingredient thought to be responsible; its found in dark grapes but a particularly potent, bioavailable source is red wine. Resveratrol has been shown to dramatically increase the rate at which cells metabolize fat.
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Rambo,
What is this?
"Chronic alcoholics"?
"I would not consider it unusual for a 200lb person to put down 20 drinks on a good Friday night"?
This has nothing to do with what we are talking about here. We are talking about 4oz - 16oz red wine a day. I thought you were talking about a study showing that moderate consumption of red wine negatively affects testosterone levels. I wasn't talking about studies showing the side effects of heavy drinking. If fact, drinking 3+ glasses of red wine a day not only wipes out all of the benefits, but it adds all of the side effects of drinking too much alcohol.
Personally, I don't like the taste of red wine. I drink it for the health benefits. Other than that, I do not drink nor do I recommend heavy drinking to anybody. Moderation is the key.
Maybe the study wasn't the right one for the point, but the point remains that even MODERATE alcohol consumption has a negative effect on testosterone levels.
For example, see "Moderate alcohol consumption increases plasma levels of a protective hormone"
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-05/ace-mac050604.php
"For this experiment, 10 middle-aged men and nine postmenopausal women – all considered healthy, non-smoking, and moderate drinkers – consumed either regular beer or nonalcoholic beer with dinner during two successive periods of three weeks. During the period of beer consumption, the men consumed 40 and the women 30 grams per day. The composition of the participants' diet was the same during all six weeks. At the end of the six-week study, fasting blood samples were collected in the morning."
"Researchers found that moderate alcohol consumption can . . .decrease plasma testosterone among men . . ."
Over the years I have read similar studies and similar references. Even low amounts of alcohol have a range of negative effects, not just on testsosterone but other aspects. Now, as I did above, I confess that I have a drink (or two) on occasion. But I do not kid myself- alcohol even in modest amounts is one of the absolute worst substances you can put in your body.
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See Also
"Moderate Alcohol May Help Prostate" http://www.personalmd.com/news/a1999012002.shtml
"NEW YORK, Jan 20 (Reuters Health) -- Men who drink moderate amounts of alcohol -- about two drinks per day of beer or liquor -- may reduce their risk of benign prostate enlargement . . . according to a study in the American Journal of Epidemiology . . .
The Harvard researchers confirmed what several other studies have found -- moderate alcohol consumption appears to lower risk of [Benign prostate hyperplasia] They hypothesize that alcohol, which reduces concentrations of testosterone in the blood, may affect the development or progression of BPH."
Now do I wish it were otherwise? Hell yes. But the "Moderate Drinking is Good For You" theory, while finding some support in come scientific circles, has another side which people turn a blind eye to. Testosterone is one of the issues.
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Rambo,
That's more like it. Thanks for the links!
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Didn't like my analogy, Princess? :)
Beach,
A tomato is a tomato, right? Yet cooked tomatoes have health benefits that raw tomatoes do not. Just because wine is made of grapes does not mean fresh grapes provide the same health benefits as wine does.
I guess. But you don't let a tomato rot to get health benefits. Not the same as cooking it. Unlike grapes, which have to spoil first (I think?). But I'll lay off the analogies. :)
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nah nah nah nah... nah nah nah nah.... hey hey hey....
wine is good
wine is great
i loved the chicken
that i just ate
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I guess. But you don't let a tomato rot to get health benefits. Not the same as cooking it. Unlike grapes, which have to spoil first (I think?). But I'll lay off the analogies. :)
Okay, bad analogy!
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Okay, bad analogy!
You're right. Maybe I should have used eggs. :) Kidding.
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I love wine.
I love to drink it.
I dont want to hear,
anymore bull shit!
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I love wine.
I love to drink it.
Merlot?
Cab?
Zin?
Pinot?
What
?
?
?
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what if you boil the win to kill most of the alcohol???
that way you get the positive effects of the wine without the calories.
any thoughts?
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Ive had a taste for smoking loon merlot lately!
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Merlot?
Cab?
Zin?
Pinot?
What
?
?
?
anything that you'll share with me in front of the fire place :D
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what if you boil the win to kill most of the alcohol???
that way you get the positive effects of the wine without the calories.
any thoughts?
I'm really not that much of a psycho!
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what if you boil the win to kill most of the alcohol???
that way you get the positive effects of the wine without the calories.
any thoughts?
you were kidding right?
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you were kidding right?
why??? when you think about it... it should work
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why??? when you think about it... it should work
dude... cooking with wine is cool.... cooking wine is not...
the alcohol is the best part....
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Ive noticed alot more vascularity since ive started drinking wine on a regular basis. I just go with Merlot. I know its helped in precontest as well.
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Merlot?
Cab?
Zin?
Pinot?
What
?
?
?
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A bottle of that should be good times.....
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Chile has some great reds.
Looks yummy :P
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Chile has some great reds.
Looks yummy :P
the concha y toro house (where the casillero del diablo is from) is one of the best... they produce very palpable and inexpensive wines... many of them are far superior to Californians at half the price....
i have 4 bottles of that exact wine in my rack right now...
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Just eat grapes instead. Same health benefits without the alcohol (but not as much fun).
"One of the biggest discoveries in nutritional science is the identification of resveratrol, the active ingredient in red wine. This compound has been shown to dramatically increase the rate at which cells metabolize fat."
"Resveratrol comes from the skin of grapes but since it oxidizes quickly (losing its metabolic effect in the process) fresh grapes and white wine are less effective sources. Red wine is a unique source of resveratrol as it retains the same amount of as was in the grape at the time of fermentation."
http://www.ast-ss.com/articles/article.asp?AID=263
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the new girlfriend loves red wine too... adds a little bit of fuel to the fire too... ;D
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I read about this study in MD. It showed that drinking 450ml (just about 2 cups) of red wine per day caused no increase in abdominal fat or body weight... Anyway, the benefits of red wine on the circulatory system are well documented and I have started drinking some regularly...
Right now I am having about 375ml per day (half a bottle).... i totally love the obvious relaxing effect, and see very little wrong with this, I mean most of Europe does the same thing....
Anyway, I am wondering if anyone else regularly consumes red wine? Others have stated that it might speed recovery and boost testosterone levels.
All I know is that it makes the evenings groovy.
Discuss?
If you're male, anything that contains alcohol can be immediately considered negative, as far as bodybuilding goes. Why? Because it decreases testosterone and increases it's conversion to oestrogens, like estradiol. Red wine has many benefits for average people, but bodybuilders are better advised to skip it altogether. Regards. :)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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I agree. Even one alcoholic drink makes me feel tired and dehydrated. Any antioxidant benefit from red wine can be matched with consuming fresh grapes or berries. Plus, wine is for fags. Real men do shots of Bacardi 151.
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definetely my drink of choice - Guinness is a close second!!!
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I agree. Even one alcoholic drink makes me feel tired and dehydrated. Any antioxidant benefit from red wine can be matched with consuming fresh grapes or berries. Plus, wine is for fags. Real men do shots of Bacardi 151.
...you are obviously a highly intelligent person.... :-X .... anyway, Arnold used to drink a beer or two a day
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Yesssssss i drink one or two glasses of wine per day, good stuff.
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Candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker.
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i use to have 2 glasses of red wine on wkends and next day have head aches .. so quit!
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What beneficial compounds? Hard to believe grapes become healthier by spoiling.
It's not "spoiling", it's "fermenting". Completely different. And, yes, there are specific, healthy compounds produced in the fermenting process that are not found in grapes.
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It's not "spoiling", it's "fermenting". Completely different. And, yes, there are specific, healthy compounds produced in the fermenting process that are not found in grapes.
What's the complete difference between spoiling and fermenting?
What healthy compounds are produced when fermenting grapes that are no found in unfermented grapes?
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What's the complete difference between spoiling and fermenting?
What healthy compounds are produced when fermenting grapes that are no found in unfermented grapes?
catechins...
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catechins...
:-\
Red wine catechins are extracted from the skin of red wine grapes. The most active red wine catechin is resveratrol, a compound the grape plant manufactures in the skin of the fruit to deter gray mold. Although red wine catechins are found in purple grape juice and red wine, resveratrol is most abundant in immature grapes (which are more susceptible to mold) and in grapes grown in damp climates, especially on Long Island in New York.
http://www.herbs2000.com/herbs/herbs_grape.htm
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OK red wine is good for you. Can anyone recommend a good red wine for those of us with no knowlege of good wines?
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OK red wine is good for you. Can anyone recommend a good red wine for those of us with no knowlege of good wines?
It's been awhile since wine snobbing ;) but right off the top of my head, Yellow Tail is pretty basic and VERY inexpensive.
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yellow tail = gaurunteed headache for me. even if i smell it.
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yellow tail = gaurunteed headache for me. even if i smell it.
awwww
sorry to hear that :-[
How 'bout Coppola, Rabbit Ridge, Fetzer :P
Just suggesting inexpensive, basic, middle of the road, easy to find stuff
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my dad makes wine and i drink it.
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Wolfblass has some great reds and for those of you to remember the reason to drink wine as opposed to beer...my personal fav...Fat Bastard...another great red. If you can get your hands on any red from Ontario, Canada you will not be sorry...but I'm a tad bit biast because I live here.
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i'm not a huge wine drinker but the Yellow Tail Shiraz is very good...
8)
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I read about this study in MD. It showed that drinking 450ml (just about 2 cups) of red wine per day caused no increase in abdominal fat or body weight... Anyway, the benefits of red wine on the circulatory system are well documented and I have started drinking some regularly...
Right now I am having about 375ml per day (half a bottle).... i totally love the obvious relaxing effect, and see very little wrong with this, I mean most of Europe does the same thing....
Anyway, I am wondering if anyone else regularly consumes red wine? Others have stated that it might speed recovery and boost testosterone levels.
All I know is that it makes the evenings groovy.
Discuss?
Yes I drink Red wine, as a good portuguese (and we have the best red wine in the world "Vinho do Porto" (Oporto Wine))! It has a good relaxing effect and I never see any increase in Bodyfat, different from beer in this case, but it does not boost testosterone. It can unbalance test production at your favour if you are not an athlete, and you have pretty basic test production. What I really find interesting is that it reduces muscle soreness in a 24 hours period. I've read some studies about this, some say that it can reduce inflammation due to trainning erosion, and others say that it acts mostly on the nervous central system! Every weekend I drink 1500 ml!