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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: ranger82 on July 05, 2006, 07:06:19 AM
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Anyone else feel like they get no pump at all from the Max-OT routine? 30 total repetitions for biceps and then 30 more for triceps? I couldn't force myself to walk out of the gym after that routine. I had to add sets of other exercises. Maybe the pump isn't the point, but I feel like I wasted a session if I walk out flat.
*LINKS ADDED*
Max-OT http://ast-ss.com/max-ot/max-ot_intro.asp
(Please note that the supplement company AST is behind this protocol, and thus it has its fair share of supplement marketing)
Here's a link to the complete protocol, without having to sign up...
http://www.freedomfly.net/Documents/MAX-OT.pdf
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i havent done max-ot but surely it couldnt hurt if you add a finishing move to the end of the set, for the pump and go high reps if thats what required? it might not build extra mass (thats debatable) but if it makes you feel good, why not?
i can't see how it could hurt.
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Anyone else feel like they get no pump at all from the Max-OT routine? 30 total repetitions for biceps and then 30 more for triceps? I couldn't force myself to walk out of the gym after that routine. I had to add sets of other exercises. Maybe the pump isn't the point, but I feel like I wasted a session if I walk out flat.
There's little or no pump.
Stick with the number of sets, the feeling you got right now is a good one. You feel like you cannot fcuk up one rep, because there are so few opportunities.
Try with two weeks of doing the training exactly like it is written.
Not a whole lot of sets. Make sure you get them done right, with heavy weights and giving it all you got.
YIP
Zack
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Give it some time...Hedge has good advice.
Follow it to the letter...read the whole thing more than once. he has alot of good ideas that i still use in my training today and i've been using Max-ot off and on for almost 2 years.
8)
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The pump has nothing to do with growth.
Max OT is not a magic bullet. There are lots of ways to train to get results - it matters more how hard you work than what routine you use, as long as you have the basics covered.
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The pump has nothing to do with growth.
Max OT is not a magic bullet. There are lots of ways to train to get results - it matters more how hard you work than what routine you use, as long as you have the basics covered.
Another great advice.
Max-OT is of course just another training protocol. A very good one.
But there are some principle's that Max-OT uses that are good to pic up.
YIP
Zack
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I tried the Max-OT training for chest and triceps last night, by the 4th chest exercise my elbows were starting to hurt and I barely got a pump, my elbows never hurt before, and I usually go as low as 3 reps for compound movements. That Max-OT system reminds alot of the type of training Dorian Yates used, now I can see why he's had so many injuries.
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I tried the Max-OT training for chest and triceps last night, by the 4th chest exercise my elbows were starting to hurt and I barely got a pump, my elbows never hurt before, and I usually go as low as 3 reps for compound movements. That Max-OT system reminds alot of the type of training Dorian Yates used, now I can see why he's had so many injuries.
Odd. Doesn't add up.
If you go as low as three reps, why would 4-6 reps with a moderate volume of sets cause sore elbows?
YIP
Zack
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I normally do a pyramid,
set 1: 20 reps
set 2: 10-15reps
set 3: 7-9 reps
set 4: 4-6reps
set 5: 3 or less
the first set is the warm up, and every set after that is taken to failure as heavy as possible in the rep ranges. By the fifth set I have a good pump going, I am also fully warmed up for my heaviest sets. It works for me, not saying it's for everybody.
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are you following his warm up advice and also doing assimilation sets?
i've never had any pain doing max-ot...
8)
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Yeah, I warmed up very similar to what the Max-OT program proposes. I did a couple of sets with light weight about 10-12 reps. Then I did a couple more weight acclimation sets, the first movement wasn't too bad, but he says that you shouldn't warm up before your other movements that follow. That's insane to me, I always pyramid for any movement I do, even if I am doing four consecutive exrcises for the same muscle. To say that just because you did 6 sets of bench presses you are automatically warmed up for 4-6 reps of max weight on say, incline DB presses is crazy. The angle and the range of motion are very different. Everyone is different though, I am not saying that Max-OT is a bad program, I am sure it gets great results for a portion of the people that try it. Just my two cents.
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Yeah, I warmed up very similar to what the Max-OT program proposes. I did a couple of sets with light weight about 10-12 reps. Then I did a couple more weight acclimation sets, the first movement wasn't too bad, but he says that you shouldn't warm up before your other movements that follow. That's insane to me, I always pyramid for any movement I do, even if I am doing four consecutive exrcises for the same muscle. To say that just because you did 6 sets of bench presses you are automatically warmed up for 4-6 reps of max weight on say, incline DB presses is crazy. The angle and the range of motion are very different. Everyone is different though, I am not saying that Max-OT is a bad program, I am sure it gets great results for a portion of the people that try it. Just my two cents.
It's all good, i just wanted to make sure you followed the protocol. many people don't like max-ot.
i'll admit that i would sometimes do a quick 8 rep warmup before each exercise but it was really light and didn't drain me of any energy. that is why he doesn't like warm ups, he believes that energy should be used in your working sets.
8)
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I'm finishing up my second week of the Max-OT program. I have followed the program by the letter except for adding a finishing exercise to each body part at low weight for high (15) reps. I'm going to give it one more week and then switch it up again. It's not that I don't see any results, it's that the whole program really doesn't feel comfortable to me. And maybe what's comfortable to me equals a rut, so I'm probably going to try something different, but even at near max wieght, 4-6 reps doesn't feel like I'm working the muscles enough, no matter how "intense" the 4-6 reps are.
It really comes down to personal preference, like anything else. I personally feel better stumbling out of the gym, barely able to walk or straighten my arms out. I don't get that from Max-OT.
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I'm finishing up my second week of the Max-OT program. I have followed the program by the letter except for adding a finishing exercise to each body part at low weight for high (15) reps. I'm going to give it one more week and then switch it up again. It's not that I don't see any results, it's that the whole program really doesn't feel comfortable to me. And maybe what's comfortable to me equals a rut, so I'm probably going to try something different, but even at near max wieght, 4-6 reps doesn't feel like I'm working the muscles enough, no matter how "intense" the 4-6 reps are.
It really comes down to personal preference, like anything else. I personally feel better stumbling out of the gym, barely able to walk or straighten my arms out. I don't get that from Max-OT.
First you write that you've followed the program to the letter, then it's apparent that you haven't followed the program to the letter at all.
Not to be harsh, but here's something to consider:
Do you train to get the best possible results
or
do you train just to get a good feel in the gym?
If you rather train higher reps and more sets, longer workouts, and the gain in muscle mass is secondary, I suggest you drop Max-OT immediately.
YIP
Zack
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First you write that you've followed the program to the letter, then it's apparent that you haven't followed the program to the letter at all.
Not to be harsh, but here's something to consider:
Do you train to get the best possible results
or
do you train just to get a good feel in the gym?
If you rather train higher reps and more sets, longer workouts, and the gain in muscle mass is secondary, I suggest you drop Max-OT immediately.
YIP
Zack
excactly..you can't follow a routine to the letter if you are adding things. Do it as described. there is a reason they didn't say "and finish with a few pump sets at the end." You should be toast at the end of the routine. Bottom line, you will get bigger and stronger on this routine, just watch the joints.
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Yeah, I added sets at the end because when I did follow the program to the letter I was not anywhere close to being "toast" at the end of the session.
And not to be harsh, but there's no way you can tell me adding a finishing exercise to Max-OT is going to in any way change the results of doing the remainder of the program. It's high reps, low weight, and if your muscles are so "toast" that you can't do a finishing set, you wouldn't be able to walk out of the gym, pick up your car keys, etc. ;)
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Yeah, I added sets at the end because when I did follow the program to the letter I was not anywhere close to being "toast" at the end of the session.
And not to be harsh, but there's no way you can tell me adding a finishing exercise to Max-OT is going to in any way change the results of doing the remainder of the program. It's high reps, low weight, and if your muscles are so "toast" that you can't do a finishing set, you wouldn't be able to walk out of the gym, pick up your car keys, etc. ;)
I'll give you this advice for your final week then:
Drop your extra sets. Up the weights on all your excersises, make sure to really push yourself, since you got so few sets and reps to work the muscle.
After this final week, make an honest assessment, decide what protocol you will use in the future.
YIP
Zack
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Yeah, I added sets at the end because when I did follow the program to the letter I was not anywhere close to being "toast" at the end of the session.
And not to be harsh, but there's no way you can tell me adding a finishing exercise to Max-OT is going to in any way change the results of doing the remainder of the program. It's high reps, low weight, and if your muscles are so "toast" that you can't do a finishing set, you wouldn't be able to walk out of the gym, pick up your car keys, etc. ;)
if I were to go into the gym and do a chest workout following max ot, which I did in 2004, my poundages and sets were something like this:
Incline dumbbell 125*6 130*4
hammer Wide press 450*6 for 2 sets
dumbbell flyes 90*6 for 2 sets-I was never a big fly guy, this program was the 1st time I really did them.
those are some decent poundages-for me, at a weight of about 190. There is no way i was gonna add a set. You have to learn to go to failure. You can't just say one day "I'm training to failure" and that's it. If you're training to failure and pushing yourself you should not be able to do anymore work. That's the point of the program. That's why you're only doing a bodypart once a week. The point is to use MAX poundages since the program focuses on overload, you're always upping the ante so if you felt like you could do another set next time you need to up the weight so you physically can't do the set. What benefit do you see in doing a high repper anyway? Not being a smart ass, just wondering.
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I don't train with Max-OT but some concepts in my training are similar. I only do one or two warm up sets in my entire workout. All of my other sets are working sets.
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I wouldnt mind trying sumthing like Mx-ot but i can only train in the gym monday,wednesday and friday. ANd most of there routines have u trianing 5 days a week etc.
It seems very little sets for big muscles like legs. Iv been following a upper/lower split (week A upper/lower/upper....week B lower/upper/lower) and was thinking of switching to something else for amonth or so, was considering HSt or MAX-OT but dont want my month or so to be wasted, im willing to work as hard as i possibly can.
davie
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I wouldnt mind trying sumthing like Mx-ot but i can only train in the gym monday,wednesday and friday. ANd most of there routines have u trianing 5 days a week etc.
It seems very little sets for big muscles like legs. Iv been following a upper/lower split (week A upper/lower/upper....week B lower/upper/lower) and was thinking of switching to something else for amonth or so, was considering HSt or MAX-OT but dont want my month or so to be wasted, im willing to work as hard as i possibly can.
davie
max OT is a good program, watch your joints, mine tended to really bother me, especially my elbows but it was the first time I really did heavy fly's so that might have been the reason. I guess you could condense the program to 3 days a week, I don't know how that would work. It's really heavy training so you might run out of gas if you try to squeeze too much in. I used to do 4 days a week with this and really had no problem but 3 might be pushing it....there's some program out there where you train really hard for 3 days a week..it's kinda popular..it has initials in it like DC or something...look into that if you want to change things up.
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if I were to go into the gym and do a chest workout following max ot, which I did in 2004, my poundages and sets were something like this:
Incline dumbbell 125*6 130*4
hammer Wide press 450*6 for 2 sets
dumbbell flyes 90*6 for 2 sets-I was never a big fly guy, this program was the 1st time I really did them.
those are some decent poundages-for me, at a weight of about 190. There is no way i was gonna add a set. You have to learn to go to failure. You can't just say one day "I'm training to failure" and that's it. If you're training to failure and pushing yourself you should not be able to do anymore work. That's the point of the program. That's why you're only doing a bodypart once a week. The point is to use MAX poundages since the program focuses on overload, you're always upping the ante so if you felt like you could do another set next time you need to up the weight so you physically can't do the set. What benefit do you see in doing a high repper anyway? Not being a smart ass, just wondering.
if you were trully going to failuer, there would be no way that you could do 2 sets with the same weight and get the same reps, esp. reps that low, like on the flyes and presses.
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if you were trully going to failuer, there would be no way that you could do 2 sets with the same weight and get the same reps, esp. reps that low, like on the flyes and presses.
sure you can. First you're training to momentary musclular failure, not musculare exhaustion, 2 different things. Plus, now this was about 2 years ago so I'm going off of memory, don't you take 2-3 minutes rest between sets? That's enough time to get ready for the second set, I did not do forced reps, since I train alone and I didn't do any negatives or any other advanced technique. Just the other day I did the 120's 10 times on the inline bench, dropped em, took 12 deep breaths, picked em back up nad did 4 more, dropped em 12 deep breaths got em up for 1 more so I don't think what I typed is totally out of the picture. momentary failure and increasing the resistance are the cornerstones of this routine, if I remember right so I don't think those numbers are to out of the realm of reality.
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i think some of the elements of max-ot are valuable, but i think it's a crock for natural lifters.... if you use AAS, etc then it might work... but natural? not enough work
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i think some of the elements of max-ot are valuable, but i think it's a crock for natural lifters.... if you use AAS, etc then it might work... but natural? not enough work
I think the opposite...i believe that natural trainers NEED Max-ot type workouts. short, heavy and low volume.
i've been on both sides of the fence and max-ot worked great when i was 100% natural, clean and when "enhanced"...just my opinion of course but anyone i have trained over the years has responded VERY well to max-ot, juiced or lifetime natural.
i have two personal friends who have been lifting for about 2 years, 100% natural. i explained max-ot to them and trained a few weeks with them to show them the ropes and they thank me everytime we hang out. they have made impressive gains in the last 4 months by following it to the letter.
just my opinion...
8)
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I think the opposite...i believe that natural trainers NEED Max-ot type workouts. short, heavy and low volume.
i've been on both sides of the fence and max-ot worked great when i was 100% natural, clean and when "enhanced"...just my opinion of course but anyone i have trained over the years has responded VERY well to max-ot, juiced or lifetime natural.
i have two personal friends who have been lifting for about 2 years, 100% natural. i explained max-ot to them and trained a few weeks with them to show them the ropes and they thank me everytime we hang out. they have made impressive gains in the last 4 months by following it to the letter.
just my opinion...
8)
excactly. It's my personal opinion that natural guys tend to grow better with this type of program, heavy, short and focused on recovery. the main porblem that I had with Max-Ot was that my joints hurt like hell, specifically my elbow joint..it was hard to describe and it might have been something that I was doing wrong. As long as you're weights are going up and you're working hard everything else should fall into place, training wise..diet is a whole nother story.
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anyway... maybe i'll have to give it a try....
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With those that have hurting elbows and such, you probably don't warm up well enough. Personally, I warm up with one set or two at most with a light weight that I can get 30-35 reps with but I will do 20-25 reps with it. If I feel I need another set, then I will rest about 1 minute then add a warm up set but that's usually it. For example, when warming up delts, I will do front-raises, lateral raises, bent-over laterals, sometimes I will do one set of dumbell presses and then I will do one warm up set of dumbell shrugs(cus I train traps right after delts and they usually stay warm throughout).
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I couldnt really do max-ot even if i wanted to as i can only have 3 days i the gym due to rugby. Shame as i wanted to try it.
davie
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I tried the Max-OT training for chest and triceps last night, by the 4th chest exercise my elbows were starting to hurt and I barely got a pump, my elbows never hurt before, and I usually go as low as 3 reps for compound movements. That Max-OT system reminds alot of the type of training Dorian Yates used, now I can see why he's had so many injuries.
This system makes sense to me for the most part, though it's nothing too new vs. reconfiguring existing (good) principles. There are a few potential cons that might be addressed, and the system made more effective & safer. The variations would be similar to Yates' mods to HIT:
-The low reps 4-6 are the main cause of joint problems. This is powerlifting training. IMO Max-OT would be better and more effective using moderate reps in either the 8-10 or 6-7 ranges (even 6-7 is too low, for some); try both. I believe and i think the majority of BBs believe, that moderate reps are the most effective for tissue development. That's completely aside from the lowered potential of injury from using moderate reps.
-Go to negative failure on one set/exercise using cheats, partials, etc. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me to stress muscle overload while restricting the possibility of taking it further in some cases. The explanation given wasn't convincing either.
-Rests don't have to be longer than 1.5-2 minutes IMO. Longer than that does not increase reserves much, but DOES allow the area to cool down, thereby increasing injury potential.
-IMO pump IS indicative of effective training, when achieved within the context of reasonably heavy weight + reasonably brief rest times. No point in arguing about it, it's all opinion in the absence of conclusive research. 1.5-2 minute rest max. makes more sense to me-lowers injury potential by preventing excessive cooldown of the area by maintaining the pump.
-Weekly frequency can be increased to every 3-5 days if soreness and tiredness goes away. Whether this helps is entirely debatable; i think it does and there's no conclusive evidence to suggest that longer rests are somehow "necessary", despite the rhetoric. Same on the theory that a muscle starts to degenerate after 3 days or so and can/should be worked-i believe it but there's nothing conclusive either way.
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the main porblem that I had with Max-Ot was that my joints hurt like hell, specifically my elbow joint..it was hard to describe and it might have been something that I was doing wrong
It's the low reps with heavier weight coupled with longer rest times. Combining those two is the a time-tested recipe for injury, is fundamentally insane. Form was very likely not the issue, IMO.
Adjust any/all of these and the benefits of the program continue without the downsides.
even at near max wieght, 4-6 reps doesn't feel like I'm working the muscles enough, no matter how "intense" the 4-6 reps are.
4-6 reps is powerlifting, will generate but is not optimal for, max. tissue development.
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I would like to see someone who trains Max-OT, try to mix up the training so he/she would use moderate weights half the time.
Ie, week 1, the first couple of excersises in the workouts would be all out. The other excersises would be moderate.
Week 2, the first couple of excersises would be... you guessed it: moderate. The rest of the excersises would be all out.
You would still use the same 4-6 repetitions, and same amount of sets. But back off the weights slightly every other week.
Just a suggestion for anyone doing Max-OT and feeling sore or getting stuck.
YIP
Zack
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Just an idea on how to tweak the Max-OT:
Week 1:
Back and Biceps:
Cable Pull Downs 2sets 4 to 6 reps 20 lbs under max
Close Grip Pull Downs (using a V-Bar) 2 4 to 6 20 lbs under max
Bent Over Rows 2 4 to 6 max
Alternate Dumbbell Curls 2 4 to 6 max
Straight Bar Curls 2 4 to 6 max
Week 2:
Cable Pull Downs 2sets 4 to 6 reps max
Close Grip Pull Downs (using a V-Bar) 2 4 to 6 max
Bent Over Rows 2 4 to 6 20 lbs under max
Alternate Dumbbell Curls 2 4 to 6 10 lbs under max
Straight Bar Curls 2 4 to 6 10 lbs under max
week 3: repeat week 1...
FWIW, there's is little point in tweaking Max-OT, unless you haven't tried following Max-OT to the letter first. Usually, most people will add in a few sets here and there, and hence get overtraining.
If anything, I believe Max-OT advocates too many training days. :P ;D
-Hedge
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I trained Max-OT for almost a year. Didn't make huge gains, but I was stable at @ 250. I liked how everything is spelled out for you. I would be interested to see how the "tweaks" would feel. I might try it after this cycle of Doggcrapp (just in my 2nd week ever).
Unless Doggrapp just completely floors me with the results, that is.
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I trained Max-OT for almost a year. Didn't make huge gains, but I was stable at @ 250. I liked how everything is spelled out for you. I would be interested to see how the "tweaks" would feel. I might try it after this cycle of Doggcrapp (just in my 2nd week ever).
Unless Doggrapp just completely floors me with the results, that is.
post your DC routine in the DC thread...I'd be interested in seeing what your doing.
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I decided to implement max ot into my arm training... if I see good results I'll switch over my whole routine.
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I decided to implement max ot into my arm training... if I see good results I'll switch over my whole routine.
so what exactly are you doint for your arms? I don't know how effective this route will be, if you're doin a ton of work on your chest, shoulders and back your arms are going to get worked alot there...just a thought.
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Well, my arms might be a little too big for my shoulders and chest at the moment anyways so that's why I'm willing to try a new routine with them and if it seems to work I want to switch my whole workout to Max-OT. My arm routine consisted of...
EZ curlbar
1st warm up set - 65lbs for 12
2nd warm up set - 65lbs for 10
1st adjustment set -85lbs for 6
2nd adjustment set -95lbs for 3
3rd adjustment set - 105 for 1
1st working set - 115lbs for 5
2nd working set - 120lbs for 4
Alt DB Curl
1st set - 45's for 6
2nd set - 55's for 4
Cable Curls
1st set - 120lbs for 6
Tricep Press (flat bench holding two dumbbells with a neutral grip, keeping them pressed together through entire movement)
1st warm up set - 35's for 12
2nd warm up set - 35's for 10
1st adjustment set -45's for 6
2nd adjustment set -60s for 3
3rd adjustment set - 70's for 1
1st working set - 85's for 5
2nd working set - 85's for 4
Skullcrushers (but on slight incline and with weight starting behind head and never going past eye level)
1st set - 115lbs for 4
2nd set - 115lbs for 5
Pressdowns
1st set - 170lbs for 6
2nd set - 220 for 4
then for forearms I was running out of time so I used the wrist roller and I have one of those power grippers that is adjustable with the coiled springs
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For SuperMike:
I suggest you do one or two warmup sets.
Then only do singles or doubles for your acclimation sets.
-Hedge
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For SuperMike:
I suggest you do one or two warmup sets.
Then only do singles or doubles for your acclimation sets.
-Hedge
I wonder how it's going for supermike?
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Hmm, I don't really know, haha. None of my lifts have gone up in arms really but I've only been doing this for 3 weeks, so still too early to tell. I'm going home this weekend so maybe I'll take a picture of two and measure my arms and see if they are any different...
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hey super mike, any progress on the program? im thinking in giving it a try
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Hmm, I don't really know, haha. None of my lifts have gone up in arms really but I've only been doing this for 3 weeks, so still too early to tell. I'm going home this weekend so maybe I'll take a picture of two and measure my arms and see if they are any different...
I dont' think your gonna see very good results if your only using the routine for arms and doing higher volume for everything else, you're tri's and bi's are getting worked when you do back, chest and shoulders so you might still be over training your arms if the volume is too high on those BP's.
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i think i will maintain high volume on legs and calves (because they started to respond that, and im feeling good) But everything else im thinking and do Max OT route.
Do you guys think its a good idea?
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I know you're not supposed to change the Max-OT program, but I'd be very interested in seeing an example of this workout in a 4 day routine rather then 5. I just know 5 is not doable. Please feel free to share if you've created a 4 day plan.
Thanks.
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I know you're not supposed to change the Max-OT program, but I'd be very interested in seeing an example of this workout in a 4 day routine rather then 5. I just know 5 is not doable. Please feel free to share if you've created a 4 day plan.
Thanks.
I did this using a 4 way split back when I was doing Max-OT. I "think" I did it as follows.
day 1-Chest and Tri's (my chest blows so it was top priority, I trained early in the morning so getting on the equipment I wanted to was not an issue)
Day 2-Legs
Day 3-Back, Bi's and Forearms
Day 4-Shoulders
or something like that. Usually I took Weds. off, so I did 2 on 1 off and took the weekends off.
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I started last week , and did everything the Max - Ot way minus legs. Today im going to do arms.
Surprisingly (sp) i had a good pump from chest!!! with 9 sets total, wich is a lot less than i normally do. Maybe i will drop to 8, wich is the first program they teach on the manual. And when i did back i got very happy with the poundages , for a total of 10 sets
Shoulders was good too, and today im going to see how i feel with arms...
My routine was something like
*****************
Chest
Bench Press
warm-ups, acclimations then
3 sets, 4-6 reps
incline bench press
3 sets, 4-6
dips
3 sets , 4-6
***********************
Back
behind the back pulldowns
3 sets 4-6
bent over rows
3 sets , 4-6
close grip pull downs
2 sets , 4-6
close grip rows (cable)
2 sets, 4-6
Shrugs
3 sets - 4-6
**********************
shoulders
barbell military presses
3 sets, 4-6
side laterals
3 sets, 4-6
bent over raises
3 sets, 4-6 (very heavy on this, good ego buster LOL)
**************
legs (not Max OT yet, still high volume, but lot less than in the past)
***************************
arms (first day today)
barbell curls
2 sets, 4-6
alt dumbell curls
2 sets, 4-6
hammer curls (both arms, same time)
2 sets, 4-6
skull crushers
2 sets, 4-6
press downs
2 sets, 4-6
french presses (dumbell)
2 sets, 4-6
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the most important thing with Max-OT is that you use really really strict form. if you form gets sloppy, then you have the potential for injuries. I don't like negative sets, and cheat sets because it makes you more likely for injuries. you need a partner to help on your work sets too. I believe this is the most efficient way to train for a natural. I was juiced about a year ago and got better results from routines that had more volume, but Max-OT is much better now that I am no longer using. Another good thing about Max-OT is that it helps you get stronger almost every workout. For a natural this is crucial, because you have to work so much harder for strength gains. big weight= big muscle!
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the most important thing with Max-OT is that you use really really strict form. if you form gets sloppy, then you have the potential for injuries. I don't like negative sets, and cheat sets because it makes you more likely for injuries. you need a partner to help on your work sets too. I believe this is the most efficient way to train for a natural. I was juiced about a year ago and got better results from routines that had more volume, but Max-OT is much better now that I am no longer using. Another good thing about Max-OT is that it helps you get stronger almost every workout. For a natural this is crucial, because you have to work so much harder for strength gains. big weight= big muscle!
skip lacour's thoughts on strict form:
http://www.ast-ss.com/articles/article.asp?AID=255
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Tried this workout for a week.. I just couldnt stand walking out the gym feeling like I barely got a workout.. Im sure it works.. Im just a person who enjoys being in the gym for hours and really feeling the workout... Hedge always seems to know what he's talking about.. He has great advice... Good luck to the rest of yall..
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Tried this workout for a week.. I just couldnt stand walking out the gym feeling like I barely got a workout.. Im sure it works.. Im just a person who enjoys being in the gym for hours and really feeling the workout... Hedge always seems to know what he's talking about.. He has great advice... Good luck to the rest of yall..
so let me get this straight. You went to the gym and did about 3 movements, 2-3 sets each with a weight you could only get 4-6 reps with and you didn't feel like you did anything? You sure you were lifting the heaviest weight possible for 4-6 reps and not the weight you "thought" you could move for 4-6 reps?
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skip lacour's thoughts on strict form:
http://www.ast-ss.com/articles/article.asp?AID=255
Noted... I tried some more aggressive form this last week and was suprised with the stimulation I got from a little swing...haha. More importantly I was able to use mildy heavier weights, I think this is the key. Thanks for the heads up, I hadn't read that article before.
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Noted... I tried some more aggressive form this last week and was suprised with the stimulation I got from a little swing...haha. More importantly I was able to use mildy heavier weights, I think this is the key. Thanks for the heads up, I hadn't read that article before.
lots of great articles on the ast site, there's a journal that willet kept for awhile getting ready for a show, very interesting read, it gets a little boring for awhile in the middle but overall it's pretty good.
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all programs can work but max ot is a good idea of doing low sets with heavy wieght and trying to avoid regular programs of burning out. i personaly dont follow max ot or any other program. but i do train lower volume 9 total sets for big bodyparts and 6 for smaller with as much wieght as i can do for the reps i currently select 10-12.
heres a example of my current routine reps are a tad higher because of getting ready for a show
chest
flat dumbell presses 1 warm up set 1x15 3x12
hammer incline presses 2x10
decline dumbell presses 2x12
cable flyes 2x15
triceps
e-z bar push downs 3x15
lying e-z bar ext 3x10
the end.... as long as ur training to a wieght that is to faliure and ur working hard rep range shouldnt matter so if ur joints hurt at 4-6 try 6-8 or 8-10 and follow the program and see if that helps
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all programs can work but max ot is a good idea of doing low sets with heavy wieght and trying to avoid regular programs of burning out. i personaly dont follow max ot or any other program. but i do train lower volume 9 total sets for big bodyparts and 6 for smaller with as much wieght as i can do for the reps i currently select 10-12.
heres a example of my current routine reps are a tad higher because of getting ready for a show
chest
flat dumbell presses 1 warm up set 1x15 3x12
hammer incline presses 2x10
decline dumbell presses 2x12
cable flyes 2x15
triceps
e-z bar push downs 3x15
lying e-z bar ext 3x10
the end.... as long as ur training to a wieght that is to faliure and ur working hard rep range shouldnt matter so if ur joints hurt at 4-6 try 6-8 or 8-10 and follow the program and see if that helps
The whole point of Max OT is that you are using heavier weights. Heavy weights is what builds muscles and you can lift a lot more weight if you are shooting for 4-6 reps than if you are shooting for 10-12... you should lift heavier and see how it works for you.
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been doing max-ot cardio for a couple of weeks, it's a killer...I think the original protocol calls for 1 minute intervals, I cut mine to 30 seconds cause I just couldn't keep going all out for that long.
anyone else use this cardio system?