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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: figgs on July 09, 2006, 02:05:41 PM
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This is one technique which intrigues me far more than other techniques because it both sounds fun and the technique's feedback seems authentic enough. Before I give it a try I'd like some good idea as to how it should be included in my normal workout routine (since this technique is not going to become a staple in my routine unless the results are eye-popping). Should I do the one "set" involved and then continue my workout as if that were any ordinary set or should my workout be trimmed down a bit?
Also, I don't know exactly how the "reps" are done. I read in a Gold's Gym Training Encyclopedia from the mid-80s that it was done just like this:
Choose a basic exercise and max out 1-3 reps to failure, followed by a rest interval of 15 seconds in which you take that time to decrease the weight by 10-15% and begin again, doing another 1-3 reps and repeating this process until 6-10 reps have been totalled. The book also warns to not do this technique more than once every 3-5 workouts per muscle.
On several bodybuilding articles on rest-pause training I've learned that Mike Mentzer did them with a weight that allowed only 1 rep all the way through the entire "set".
I prefer the idea of 1-3 reps. If I learn no more than I already know by tomorrow's chest workout I'm going to do it the Gold's Gym way with BB bench presses and again with my military presses or DB presses.
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I never went with Minter’s way of teaching, but gave it an idea or two. Probably try it out with a muscle like biceps. I like the idea you put it out with 1-3 reps, I'll try that. It sounds interesting and a totally different way of training in my book. I always like to try something new, but nothing that already works you know.
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Yeah, whatever gets you the most gains. I sometimes incorporate rest-pause into my training but not often. You gotta do what works for you though.
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figgs, would be interesting to see you sum up your training experiences from the last 18 months, and point out where you had the most gains and so forth.
YIP
Zack
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This is one technique which intrigues me far more than other techniques because it both sounds fun and the technique's feedback seems authentic enough.
I'm with you; for some reason they work better & appeal more than other post-failure techniques like cheats or negatives.
There are several ways to try using them, all after reaching failure. All involve leaving the weight the same-the rest interval allows the use of the same resistance, the advantage being that you don't have to take your hands off the weight while resting, or waste time changing the weight. If you reduce the weight you're also mixing in the use of drop-sets.
After reaching failure:
Version 1/ Grind out a few more reps. End of set.
Version 2/ Grind out more reps, rest a second time, grind out more reps.
Version 3/ Assign yourself an overall rep goal for an exercise-say 40 reps total for pulldowns. Do only one long, extended set to accomplish the goal, using several rest-pause intervals to do it. Start the set, reach failure at 15 reps, rest 5-10 seconds, do another 8 reps, rest again, do another 5 reps, rest again, etc. until 40 reps are done. Demanding but very effective.
Rest intervals: try resting only 5 seconds. Other times try resting 10-15 seconds.
Using it on 1-2 sets per muscle per workout isn't too fatiguing; no need to modify or shorten your workout.
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Version 3/ Assign yourself an overall rep goal for an exercise-say 40 reps total for pulldowns. Do only one long, extended set to accomplish the goal, using several rest-pause intervals to do it. Start the set, reach failure at 15 reps, rest 5-10 seconds, do another 8 reps, rest again, do another 5 reps, rest again, etc. until 40 reps are done. Demanding but very effective.
I though your version 3 was called targeting as opposed to a version of rest pause? then again could be just another name for the same thing.
for me i have found when using rest pause it helps my strength levels but i am not to sure i feel/noticed the added muscle growth, if that makes sense.
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Version #4
Rest 15 seconds between EACH rep. 20 seconds max (no more) if needed at the end of a plan rep scheme. Release the grip between reps and flex the hand and wrist a little (shake them out in other words) if needed. Take several deep breaths between reps, avoiding oxygen debt. Use the same weight throughout the exercise.
Do not go to complete failure (unable to move the weight at all) each rep. Defeats the purpose of the Rest Pause System. Seems to work best when the reps are kepted betwee 6 and 9 reps. Not desireable for high rep work unless geared for special, advanced programs. Grinding out a few more reps, rest a little and grind out more reps towards the end of a set (say 40 reps goal for example) is not the Rest Pause System. Doing 100's is also not the Rest Pause System. Consider the Rest Pause System as mini sets of one rep each. 15 seconds between each mini set.
More weight can be used when doing the RPS. One of the reasons of it's benefits. To give this system a true chance than do not use it along with your regular workout plan. The RPS works best with compound exercises so plan a workout with just using this system only.
Example: Chest...BP & incline press
Back....DL & rows
Shoulders...Front press & PBN
Legs...Squats & BB Hacks
etc, etc, etc,
I use a more advance (though most bb'ers with a little basic experience can try this) Rest Pause System, for a 6 to 8 week cycle, throughout a training year. For example, with the SLDL, 20 reps are done with a 15 second pause between reps. On the last 3 or 4 reps I'm breathing like a steam engine so I have to have at least a 20-25 second pause. Works very well for me with regards to increase stamina (endurance & strength) and muscle size. Just think of the RPS as a altered version of the breathing squat, hight rep program. The other exercise are usually cleans, squats, front presses, Hi-pulls, Rows, etc. Good Luck
OK, your turn Pumpster.
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All worth trying even if no. 4 sounds a little nutty, but go to failure..I like rest-pause better than most other alternatives.
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figgs, would be interesting to see you sum up your training experiences from the last 18 months, and point out where you had the most gains and so forth.
YIP
Zack
I wish I started again. I have an old training journal with an entry gap of at least 4-5 months. :( I think I stopped because I'm not specific with the changes I make to my routine and therefore don't learn anything about previous experiments. I really have to learn how to organize a better training journal. One day when I'm well into competition it would be interesting to return to primitive workout routines and just to have a good idea of my old accomplishments and failures.
Pumpster's #1 and 2 versions seem like a good idea to use on a cycle of a few weeks. Either that or use this technique once every other workout.
Pumpster's #3 version sounds intense! Now this is something I'd like to do for all of my weak lifts. I might do it on tomorrow's chest workout (I skipped today's because I got lost for 2 and a half hours on my bike and passed out after a gigantic meal). But that version sounds like an entire workout. Should it be treated like one?
And what about doing the RPS on a power cycle of 1-3 reps as originally stated? I'm interested in how that would affect my muscles differently.
Not going to failure is going to take some willpower, believe it or not. I don't get satisfaction in a set if it's not taken to the limits.
Using your advanced version of RPS, JPM, of cycling with the technique is something I feel I'm ready to try. But which muscles should get this opportunity? All? Lagging muscles?
Thanks
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I dont like the idea of taking off weight during a set. U slowly add more weight to force ur body to get bigger and stronger. Why suddenly do something that accomplishes just the opposite?
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I dont like the idea of taking off weight during a set. U slowly add more weight to force ur body to get bigger and stronger. Why suddenly do something that accomplishes just the opposite?
The reasoning is that it's necessary to remove weight in order to continue the set because the muscle's are so fatigued, which is mixing the drop set idea in to the rest-pause idea. It's an additional element which IMO isn't necessary for conventional training, and can be distracting-you should be resting just briefly, just long enough to get your strength back-changing weights is too involved and gets away from a focus on restoring one's energy sufficiently to resume the set. Drop sets in this context makes more sense if you're using HIT & have a training partner, and have to go to extremes in one sets.
Because of the fatigue factor, adding weight wouldn't make sense if you're going to failure as is usually the case with rest-pause. Just resuming with the same weight is sufficient in that case.
No reason you couldn't add weight IF you didn't go to failure before pausing, in which case you'd be including ascending sets into the equation along with rest-pause. But IMO ascending sets means avoiding failure on most sets, which defeats the point of rest-pause-to fatigue the muscle through several cycles of failure interspersed with short rests. So it wouldn't be the normal rest-pause method of several sets of failure, but on the other hand if it works..
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hey pump,
do you ever find going to failure to be a mental hurdle more then a physical one?
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Ya, but i'm used to it, consider it part of training, don't you? Not going to failure's kinda missing the point but it's challenging because it's not easy. Being middle aged it's not as easy to get there on each set but at least I get close every set.
Post-failure reps I don't even bother with anymore-much easier to do with a training partner for motivation IMO. Instead, I'll just do an extra set to failure as a substitute for post-failure reps.
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see i have found that if i pre select the amout of reps before failure before a set then bang its exactly that but if i just keep pressing till true failure then i am usually past that number.
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If you're saying that assigning a goal helps, definitely agree as long as it's just beyond what you're normally able to do. You might be right about that term targeting, which has got to help go beyond the normal amount of reps.
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no kind of oppsite, if i load the bar and know the weight and what i think i should be able to get unassisted to failure is 8 reps then it seems when i get to eight boom i fail, but if i do the same but just tell myself go till you can't get another i may get to ten reps.make sense?
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OK, so basically assigning a goal can make it too easy. It's not easy to push to the limits without a training partner, whatever can be done to help. I go to failure but to go just a little farther and make progress takes a lot, especially solo. Targeting & rest-pause i'm going to use the next few weeks to force myself out of the comfort zone; have to really pay attention to the numbers and the idea of exceeding them at least some workouts.
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OK, so basically assigning a goal can make it too easy. It's not easy to push to the limits without a training partner, whatever can be done to help! Targeting & rest-pause i'm going to use the next few weeks to force myself out of the comfort zone.
i think mentally if i assign failure i reach failure almost like your training your brain you should fail. kind of like sometimes i find a certain weight to be "heavy" but once i get past it it always then seems easy and do able.i have been doing targeting lately on legs as a break from squats, using the leg press and uping the weight each set but having a target of 100 reps, and i "think" its really strssing me in a new growth way aside from my normal pyramid stuff.
training by yourself does limit somethings but you just have to get creative, been doing it for so long when i do have a partner i feel distracted.
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I can feel distracted sometimes as well but if were both having fun and training hard it makes for a better workout.
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I can feel distracted sometimes as well but if were both having fun and training hard it makes for a better workout.
the problem i have found is i tend to be a talkative guy, so even though i hate to be talked to when working out i find when i have a partner i spend the whole time running my mouth plus i do not push myself since i have always worked out with "normal" strength guys and found i work down to there weight instead of using what i normally would.
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Ok yeah thats kinda bad, but you can't do that.
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Ok yeah thats kinda bad, but you can't do that.
thanks..lol
the problem is having a real life, job,family and not being a gym rat makes it hard to find someone thats doing the same thing as you and has the same goals and times to work out, hell most of my "real life" friends can't understand why im always happy when i get bigger or stronger, there all about losing weight and working out only before summer not year round.
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thanks..lol
the problem is having a real life, job,family and not being a gym rat makes it hard to find someone thats doing the same thing as you and has the same goals and times to work out, hell most of my "real life" friends can't understand why im always happy when i get bigger or stronger, there all about losing weight and working out only before summer not year round.
haha yeah...ok well we'll have to hook up then and yell in eachothers faces I guess.
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haha yeah...ok well we'll have to hook up then and yell in eachothers faces I guess.
lol..been along time since i did the david and paul route...i would be happy if i just had a partner that knew what the difference between a forced rep and spot was somedays, let alone explaining why i want to do negatives...
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haha. Its good when you teach the person and they really get into it but not when they skip out on leg day or a last set because they are tired.
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haha. Its good when you teach the person and they really get into it but not when they skip out on leg day or a last set because they are tired.
leg day...its sad but leg day is my least stressed drive to the gym because i know no matter what time of day or how packed the gym will be the squat racks and leg presses and hack squats are is always ready...sad really.
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yup same here man.
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rest pause is probably my favorite technique...it always made sense to me especially when done the metzer way. It's brutal but I dont' see how it could not work. Max weight for a rep, rest 10 secs and do another until you can't then reduce the weight and start over until you're DONE. It'll f-up you're CNS but it's very effective. Right now I'm using DC training which focuses on rest pause and it's set up a little different but both are effective.
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I tried rest-pause for the first time on my chest workout the other day and it sucked. Each mini-set my reps went from 8 to 3 to 2 and it ended up really pissing me off because I had just felt like I wasted my time but I took the time to experience it and I can say that plain old busting my fuckin ass in the gym the old fashioned way is the way to go! Thanks for all the help guys. I appreciate it.
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I tried rest-pause for the first time on my chest workout the other day and it sucked. Each mini-set my reps went from 8 to 3 to 2 and it ended up really pissing me off because I had just felt like I wasted my time but I took the time to experience it
Not clear what you don't like about it-the rep numbers are supposed to decrease later..
Obviously you're not serious. If you did it the way it's supposed to be done, which would've allowed you to go farther into a set than normal, there's little chance that it wouldn't have been intense. This is just BS.
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Not clear what you don't like about it-the rep numbers are supposed to decrease later..
Obviously you're not serious. If you did it the way it's supposed to be done, which would've allowed you to go farther into a set than normal, there's little chance that it wouldn't have been intense. This is just BS.
holy cow...I actually agree with you. I've said it before and I'll say it again you have to learn how to train hard. You can't just say, I'm going to do some rest pause movements one day and make an informed evaluation of the technique. I used to think I trained my ass off when I was younger but there is no way I could have done the work outs I do today. Intensity is learned not a given.
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holy cow...I actually agree with you. I've said it before and I'll say it again you have to learn how to train hard. You can't just say, I'm going to do some rest pause movements one day and make an informed evaluation of the technique. I used to think I trained my ass off when I was younger but there is no way I could have done the work outs I do today. Intensity is learned not a given.
that is a real good statement. intensity is all about moving the bar and pushing yourself past what's comfortable. I like to use the phrase "repeating yesterday" since if you do the same thing each time you are on a big circle and there is no change only the same view everyday.
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that is a real good statement. intensity is all about moving the bar and pushing yourself past what's comfortable. I like to use the phrase "repeating yesterday" since if you do the same thing each time you are on a big circle and there is no change only the same view everyday.
I think it comes down to understanding the term "progressive resistance" it seems pretty easy but when you really wrap your mind around it it takes on a whole new meaning.
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I think it comes down to understanding the term "progressive resistance" it seems pretty easy but when you really wrap your mind around it it takes on a whole new meaning.
exactly..
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Believe me, I trained to failure and even did forced reps. My intensity was high and the technique itself was very intense it's just that it didn't feel as effective as my usual training routines are.
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Actually on second thought, and I'm being 100% honest, I think I was more frustrated with the fact that my bench press has lowered 20 pounds since I got off my cutting diet almost 2 months ago. I was really pissed to learn that my bench press still hasn't improved. THAT ruined my training. It definetely did. I can't do this technique with an exercise that depresses me this much. I hope the RPS helped to increase my bench back to where it's supposed to be.
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The bench going down doesn't have to do with rest-pause, in fact this is a good way to increase it.
Or, find something else that appeals more-even if it's good if you don't like it it's unlikely to work.
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I'll give it another shot at another time. I think the decreased bench just crushed my spirits.
I'm going to try them again for military presses since that's another weak lift of mine.
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I just included some rest-pause reps and i have to say it's gruelling, it's not easy on some exercises. Exercises where you can rest the muscles between reps, like bench, squat or curls aren't bad, but on something like chins or rows where the muscle's basically always under tension, it's not easy to grind out those extra reps!
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The bench going down doesn't have to do with rest-pause, in fact this is a good way to increase it.
Or, find something else that appeals more-even if it's good if you don't like it it's unlikely to work.
Hey Figgs,
Pumpster is right that rest-pause training can help your bench. I think you did too many reps though.
Here's how I read that it should be used.
Pick a weight that you can get for 3 or 4 good reps, but no more. Say you can do 315lbs for 3, but always need help from a spotter to get the 4th. Well next time doing chest, put on 315lbs, do your 3 reps, and wait 12 to 15 secs. Do another rep, just one. Then wait another 15 secs or so, and do one more. Then that set is done.
While it's not the same as 5 continous reps of 315lbs, you still moved it for 5 reps, instead of 3 and a half, or however much the spotter would help on the fourth. Do this for a couple of workouts, and then go back to normal, and you should be getting 315lbs for 4 to 5 on a normal set.
Good Luck!
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Hey Figgs,
Pumpster is right that rest-pause training can help your bench. I think you did too many reps though.
Here's how I read that it should be used.
Pick a weight that you can get for 3 or 4 good reps, but no more. Say you can do 315lbs for 3, but always need help from a spotter to get the 4th. Well next time doing chest, put on 315lbs, do your 3 reps, and wait 12 to 15 secs. Do another rep, just one. Then wait another 15 secs or so, and do one more. Then that set is done.
While it's not the same as 5 continous reps of 315lbs, you still moved it for 5 reps, instead of 3 and a half, or however much the spotter would help on the fourth. Do this for a couple of workouts, and then go back to normal, and you should be getting 315lbs for 4 to 5 on a normal set.
Good Luck!
good decription but metzer reccomends stripping the weight and continuing the set...I don't remember if you drop until you hit total failure or only once...I have not done these in this manner in along time so I can't say which one is better. i would think your cns would be destroyed by doing drops.
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good decription but metzer reccomends stripping the weight and continuing the set
Part of true HIT to combine rest-pause and drops until reaching total failure, but not necessary or even recommended to include drops or change the weight while using rest-pause in conventional training.