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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: The True Adonis on July 11, 2006, 11:11:24 AM
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The other side to that point is, does 288 pounds make for a more dedicated bodybuilder than one 100 pounds lighter- natural or not? I've been busting my butt in the gym, living a life that a monk would consider ascetic, and pouring more thought and love into bodybuilding than any sane person should, from the time I was 13- 24 years. Yet, I did so knowing almost from the start that I didn't have the natural capacity to put on scads of muscle, and that I would never compromise my long term health by taking drugs to counterract my limitations.
As I've stated many times on these boards, I've watched in envy as inexperienced guys would walk into the gym without much concern for bodybuilding at all who build up impressive physiques in short order, thanks to genetic 'blessings'. At the same time I'll toil away year after year, making the kind of progress that would send all of those guys packing in frustration within three months.
Doesn't this, in a way, make me even more dedicated than the guy who is genetically gifted and, for whatever reason, doesn't have compunctions about living on steroids for years on end? It takes more effort to climb a mountain than drive it.
There's a base notion in this 'sport' that equates size with experience, love and knowledge. It's the same prejudice Steve Blechman and John Romano foster when they pick on Peter for his physical attributes. It makes me realize in the end that many bodybuilders are what the public perceives them to be- thickheaded.
Could you imagine if Tiger Woods, Ernie Els and Davis Love III went on golf forums and ripped on all the amateur duffers out there for not achieving their level of success? How about if Bill Gates, Jack Welch and Michael Eisner propagated small business forums and chided the members there, telling them they should give up because they haven't come close to grossing a billion dollars yet?
Pro bodybuilding is very quickly losing its mystique. The athletes could very easily take the mantle of benevolent icons, just by keeping their mouths closed when discretion deems it so.
Could any of you guys imagine the blessing of being able to earn a living doing what you've loved most of all since childhood? And knowing that this job would give you a good deal of authority and prestige  in the eyes of a number of people, wouldn't you feel a sense of duty to represent both yourself and your profession with all the dignity you could muster? I would.
Whether sarcasm or not (and I do suspect there was some there), Tom Prince's post was far from the worst I've seen. Whereas he was making a point, other pros have verbally bashed their (potential) fans in a manner befitting elementary school bullies.
All pro sports put controls on their athletes for behavior unbecoming to the good name of their sport, team and themselves. Â I understand why now.
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The other side to that point is, does 288 pounds make for a more dedicated bodybuilder than one 100 pounds lighter- natural or not? I've been busting my butt in the gym, living a life that a monk would consider ascetic, and pouring more thought and love into bodybuilding than any sane person should, from the time I was 13- 24 years. Yet, I did so knowing almost from the start that I didn't have the natural capacity to put on scads of muscle, and that I would never compromise my long term health by taking drugs to counterract my limitations.
As I've stated many times on these boards, I've watched in envy as inexperienced guys would walk into the gym without much concern for bodybuilding at all who build up impressive physiques in short order, thanks to genetic 'blessings'. At the same time I'll toil away year after year, making the kind of progress that would send all of those guys packing in frustration within three months.
Doesn't this, in a way, make me even more dedicated than the guy who is genetically gifted and, for whatever reason, doesn't have compunctions about living on steroids for years on end? It takes more effort to climb a mountain than drive it.
There's a base notion in this 'sport' that equates size with experience, love and knowledge. It's the same prejudice Steve Blechman and John Romano foster when they pick on Peter for his physical attributes. It makes me realize in the end that many bodybuilders are what the public perceives them to be- thickheaded.
Could you imagine if Tiger Woods, Ernie Els and Davis Love III went on golf forums and ripped on all the amateur duffers out there for not achieving their level of success? How about if Bill Gates, Jack Welch and Michael Eisner propagated small business forums and chided the members there, telling them they should give up because they haven't come close to grossing a billion dollars yet?
Pro bodybuilding is very quickly losing its mystique. The athletes could very easily take the mantle of benevolent icons, just by keeping their mouths closed when discretion deems it so.
Could any of you guys imagine the blessing of being able to earn a living doing what you've loved most of all since childhood? And knowing that this job would give you a good deal of authority and prestige  in the eyes of a number of people, wouldn't you feel a sense of duty to represent both yourself and your profession with all the dignity you could muster? I would.
Whether sarcasm or not (and I do suspect there was some there), Tom Prince's post was far from the worst I've seen. Whereas he was making a point, other pros have verbally bashed their (potential) fans in a manner befitting elementary school bullies.
All pro sports put controls on their athletes for behavior unbecoming to the good name of their sport, team and themselves. Â I understand why now.
This is what he wrote as a comment for that "Steroid users sitting at the Big Table/Natties at the kids table" post by TP if I'm not mistaken.
YIP
Zack
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This post is by Jeff Preston regarding the Tom Prince issue on Naturals. This is interesting and strangely prophetic given that it is befpre his kidney incident.
Jeff Preston
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Re: Tom Prince putting down Natural BBs
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2003, 09:00:52 AM »
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The one thing that I absolutely cannot tolerate is the arrogence that some who choose the drug route display. The "I am bigger, I have more knowledge, I am of the elite....I am a superior form of man!" mentality.
I want Tom to come around in a few years when the drugs are out of his system either by choice or necessity and he is dealing with the stares and under the breath comments of "What happened? He used to be so big..now he looks like he never touched a weight".
People who make comments like Mr. Prince did actually beleive that they have a superior work ethic, mastery of nutrition, blessed with genetics from the gods and that drugs play a very small part in their success. What a delusional life!
We have been around the block, some more than others, and we have seen "Tom Prince's" come and go.
At the end of the day who is still standing with iron in hand, sweat dripping from our brow that is furrowed with the determination and heart that has lasted a lifetime?
Sorry Tom, your lame dog won't hunt in these woods!
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Chemical Bodybuilding never liked Natural bodybuilding from the start. It's a disgrace to see those juiced heads bashing those natural guys
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All pro sports put controls on their athletes for behavior unbecoming to the good name of their sport, team and themselves. Â I understand why now.
Yes, I agree. I think that very often, a sports organization will grow to more than just one that puts on games/shows and collects ticket money. It is then that is begins to take roots in the community.
What if every year, in order to re-qualify for the next year's Olympia, the top 10 from the O had to spend 20 hours of the week following the Olympia volunteering in the LV area? Visit some hospitals, maybe do some health/fitness stuff at a local rehab center, etc. Just *something* that all the fans could refer to as ONE THING that Bbers did that wasn't for themselves.
I tell ya, the image of Ronnie helping build homes for Habitat or Cutler helping a kid with a prosthetic leg walk on a treadmill, would be a lot more positive for the casual fan than the Titus mug shot.
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Yes, I agree. I think that very often, a sports organization will grow to more than just one that puts on games/shows and collects ticket money. It is then that is begins to take roots in the community.
What if every year, in order to re-qualify for the next year's Olympia, the top 10 from the O had to spend 20 hours of the week following the Olympia volunteering in the LV area? Visit some hospitals, maybe do some health/fitness stuff at a local rehab center, etc. Just *something* that all the fans could refer to as ONE THING that Bbers did that wasn't for themselves.
I tell ya, the image of Ronnie helping build homes for Habitat or Cutler helping a kid with a prosthetic leg walk on a treadmill, would be a lot more positive for the casual fan than the Titus mug shot.
Bro, he's just quoting Shawn Perine. ;)
YIP
Zack
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Joe Roark feels the same way.
Very interesting that the very writers of the magazines that feature the enhanced bodybuilders all feel this way.
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Re: Tom Prince putting down Natural BBs
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2003, 09:28:02 AM »
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You can't cry if you're dead at a premature age.
Who is crying our for attention by becoming big by a means, which if that means were stopped, natural,
smaller size would return?
I'll take a smaller, natural body, which will turn no one's head, over a huge, temporarily large body, which
every onlooker (including the owner of the body) knows
is dependent on being on.
There is nothing fake about being natural. The worst
deceived man is the self-deceived man.
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can somebody posted those Tom Prince comments
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can somebody posted those Tom Prince comments
I think Matt C has the screenshot and comments saved.
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Yes, I agree. I think that very often, a sports organization will grow to more than just one that puts on games/shows and collects ticket money. It is then that is begins to take roots in the community.
What if every year, in order to re-qualify for the next year's Olympia, the top 10 from the O had to spend 20 hours of the week following the Olympia volunteering in the LV area? Visit some hospitals, maybe do some health/fitness stuff at a local rehab center, etc. Just *something* that all the fans could refer to as ONE THING that Bbers did that wasn't for themselves.
I tell ya, the image of Ronnie helping build homes for Habitat or Cutler helping a kid with a prosthetic leg walk on a treadmill, would be a lot more positive for the casual fan than the Titus mug shot.
bad idea. with the climate of sports today, i.e. steroids or everyone's mind, bbers really cant do anything. everyone will just point the drug finger at them (which is true) regardless or how good a guy is or what he's done. not necessarily fair, but that's how it is today.
my main point being that regardless of what bbers do, the drug issue will always be the main topic.
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Yes, I agree. I think that very often, a sports organization will grow to more than just one that puts on games/shows and collects ticket money. It is then that is begins to take roots in the community.
What if every year, in order to re-qualify for the next year's Olympia, the top 10 from the O had to spend 20 hours of the week following the Olympia volunteering in the LV area? Visit some hospitals, maybe do some health/fitness stuff at a local rehab center, etc. Just *something* that all the fans could refer to as ONE THING that Bbers did that wasn't for themselves.
I tell ya, the image of Ronnie helping build homes for Habitat or Cutler helping a kid with a prosthetic leg walk on a treadmill, would be a lot more positive for the casual fan than the Titus mug shot.
what's the point of charity work if you have to make someone do it? it defeates the purpose.
besides, there have been a few pics in FLEX from fans showing ronnie, jay, gunter, etc., at hospitals with kids.
lee priest has doen thing for the homeless before.
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Yes, I agree. I think that very often, a sports organization will grow to more than just one that puts on games/shows and collects ticket money. It is then that is begins to take roots in the community.
What if every year, in order to re-qualify for the next year's Olympia, the top 10 from the O had to spend 20 hours of the week following the Olympia volunteering in the LV area? Visit some hospitals, maybe do some health/fitness stuff at a local rehab center, etc. Just *something* that all the fans could refer to as ONE THING that Bbers did that wasn't for themselves.
I tell ya, the image of Ronnie helping build homes for Habitat or Cutler helping a kid with a prosthetic leg walk on a treadmill, would be a lot more positive for the casual fan than the Titus mug shot.
Agree.
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Tom Prince Owns himself everyday he wakes up and people see him.... I remember those comments and I thought , ggeeeezzz i wish this guy would come off the drugs and see what he is saying...
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I'm sure there are many more casualties to come. He's not the last. Life teaches the hard way sometime. I hope he regrets those words
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There is definitly the common misconception among gym rats that a guy with extreme muscularity and size must know more than the naturals in the sport. Obviously this is the furthest thing from the truth..especially today with the "chemically engineered" bodybuilders all over the gyms. Not all, but alot of guys today don't live the bodybuilding lifestyle like the guys of years past. With GH, insulin it's relatively easy to develop a physique that gets attention. Just walk into a down town gym in NY on a summer day and you'll see lost of guys that stay up partying till 7 am, eat close to nothing except some protein drinks, train half assed and take lots of gh and test and have a physique that could place in a local show.
Do they know more than the naturals? I trained as a natural competitor and competed as both. For me, natural or enhanced didn't matter to my approach...100% all the time and always learning. Obviously things do not come the same way for a natural so you must really apply yourself 100% to progress. I do believe that with or without good genetics you should see improvement from month to month, year to year and if you aren't then your doing something wrong. I did not have good structural genetics and built a physique naturally that won teen age shows in the NPC and later on as well. Too often I see the excuse of "my genetics held me back". Now of course you won't be a pro, some may not even be able to place in a natural show, but you should be able to develop a respectable amount of muscle mass and condition that standouts from your peers in the gym, natural or enhanced.
I've actually seen first hand the effort and consistancy Shawn P put into his training. He was and is just as dedicated as any other BB, natural or not. His mom also trained naturally and developed one of the top womens physiques at a time when not too many women even trained. He "knows" Bodybuilding fundementals as well as anyone in the business.
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There is definitly the common misconception among gym rats that a guy with extreme muscularity and size must know more than the naturals in the sport. Obviously this is the furthest thing from the truth..especially today with the "chemically engineered" bodybuilders all over the gyms. Not all, but alot of guys today don't live the bodybuilding lifestyle like the guys of years past. With GH, insulin it's relatively easy to develop a physique that gets attention. Just walk into a down town gym in NY on a summer day and you'll see lost of guys that stay up partying till 7 am, eat close to nothing except some protein drinks, train half assed and take lots of gh and test and have a physique that could place in a local show.
Do they know more than the naturals? I trained as a natural competitor and competed as both. For me, natural or enhanced didn't matter to my approach...100% all the time and always learning. Obviously things do not come the same way for a natural so you must really apply yourself 100% to progress. I do believe that with or without good genetics you should see improvement from month to month, year to year and if you aren't then your doing something wrong. I did not have good structural genetics and built a physique naturally that won teen age shows in the NPC and later on as well. Too often I see the excuse of "my genetics held me back". Now of course you won't be a pro, some may not even be able to place in a natural show, but you should be able to develop a respectable amount of muscle mass and condition that standouts from your peers in the gym, natural or enhanced.
I've actually seen first hand the effort and consistancy Shawn P put into his training. He was and is just as dedicated as any other BB, natural or not. His mom also trained naturally and developed one of the top womens physiques at a time when not too many women even trained. He "knows" Bodybuilding fundementals as well as anyone in the business.
Very good post.
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The other side to that point is, does 288 pounds make for a more dedicated bodybuilder than one 100 pounds lighter- natural or not? I've been busting my butt in the gym, living a life that a monk would consider ascetic, and pouring more thought and love into bodybuilding than any sane person should, from the time I was 13- 24 years. Yet, I did so knowing almost from the start that I didn't have the natural capacity to put on scads of muscle, and that I would never compromise my long term health by taking drugs to counterract my limitations.
As I've stated many times on these boards, I've watched in envy as inexperienced guys would walk into the gym without much concern for bodybuilding at all who build up impressive physiques in short order, thanks to genetic 'blessings'. At the same time I'll toil away year after year, making the kind of progress that would send all of those guys packing in frustration within three months.
Doesn't this, in a way, make me even more dedicated than the guy who is genetically gifted and, for whatever reason, doesn't have compunctions about living on steroids for years on end? It takes more effort to climb a mountain than drive it.
There's a base notion in this 'sport' that equates size with experience, love and knowledge. It's the same prejudice Steve Blechman and John Romano foster when they pick on Peter for his physical attributes. It makes me realize in the end that many bodybuilders are what the public perceives them to be- thickheaded.
Could you imagine if Tiger Woods, Ernie Els and Davis Love III went on golf forums and ripped on all the amateur duffers out there for not achieving their level of success? How about if Bill Gates, Jack Welch and Michael Eisner propagated small business forums and chided the members there, telling them they should give up because they haven't come close to grossing a billion dollars yet?
Pro bodybuilding is very quickly losing its mystique. The athletes could very easily take the mantle of benevolent icons, just by keeping their mouths closed when discretion deems it so.
Could any of you guys imagine the blessing of being able to earn a living doing what you've loved most of all since childhood? And knowing that this job would give you a good deal of authority and prestige  in the eyes of a number of people, wouldn't you feel a sense of duty to represent both yourself and your profession with all the dignity you could muster? I would.
Whether sarcasm or not (and I do suspect there was some there), Tom Prince's post was far from the worst I've seen. Whereas he was making a point, other pros have verbally bashed their (potential) fans in a manner befitting elementary school bullies.
All pro sports put controls on their athletes for behavior unbecoming to the good name of their sport, team and themselves. Â I understand why now.
Shawn is a modest guy. He may be small but I think he has developed a more aesthetically pleasing physique then a lot of the bloated line backer looking juiceheads
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It is sad to see this naturals v non naturals feud.There are enough people looking to attack the sport without us attacking each other.We all make choices regarding drug use and there is no right or wrong choice-no moral high ground should be taken by naturals nor should anyone be seen as 'more of a bodybuilder' if they are assisted.I am lifetime natural but have friends who are assisted and feel that there is mutual respect there as we are all bodybuilders who work hard to achieve our goals.The only time I would knock anyone for using is if they enter a natural contest although,here in the UK,I think this is a rarity.
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"I want Tom to come around in a few years when the drugs are out of his system either by choice or necessity and he is dealing with the stares and under the breath comments of "What happened? He used to be so big..now he looks like he never touched a weight""
Epic prophesy!! :o
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This post is by Jeff Preston regarding the Tom Prince issue on Naturals. This is interesting and strangely prophetic given that it is befpre his kidney incident.
Jeff Preston
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Re: Tom Prince putting down Natural BBs
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2003, 09:00:52 AM »
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The one thing that I absolutely cannot tolerate is the arrogence that some who choose the drug route display. The "I am bigger, I have more knowledge, I am of the elite....I am a superior form of man!" mentality.
I want Tom to come around in a few years when the drugs are out of his system either by choice or necessity and he is dealing with the stares and under the breath comments of "What happened? He used to be so big..now he looks like he never touched a weight".People who make comments like Mr. Prince did actually beleive that they have a superior work ethic, mastery of nutrition, blessed with genetics from the gods and that drugs play a very small part in their success. What a delusional life!
We have been around the block, some more than others, and we have seen "Tom Prince's" come and go.
At the end of the day who is still standing with iron in hand, sweat dripping from our brow that is furrowed with the determination and heart that has lasted a lifetime?
Sorry Tom, your lame dog won't hunt in these woods!
Monster foreshadow.
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Every post on this subject was as good as it get's on this forum 8)good read..
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Every post on this subject was as good as it get's on this forum 8)good read..
Exactly...When I saw these posts by the acclaimed writers, I knew this was something worth bringing up and discussing. I am glad the writers and those truly knowledgeable see through the bullshit in the industry.
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This post is by Jeff Preston regarding the Tom Prince issue on Naturals. This is interesting and strangely prophetic given that it is befpre his kidney incident.
Jeff Preston
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Olympia Level
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Posts: 9747
Re: Tom Prince putting down Natural BBs
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2003, 09:00:52 AM »
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The one thing that I absolutely cannot tolerate is the arrogence that some who choose the drug route display. The "I am bigger, I have more knowledge, I am of the elite....I am a superior form of man!" mentality.
I want Tom to come around in a few years when the drugs are out of his system either by choice or necessity and he is dealing with the stares and under the breath comments of "What happened? He used to be so big..now he looks like he never touched a weight".
People who make comments like Mr. Prince did actually beleive that they have a superior work ethic, mastery of nutrition, blessed with genetics from the gods and that drugs play a very small part in their success. What a delusional life!
We have been around the block, some more than others, and we have seen "Tom Prince's" come and go.
At the end of the day who is still standing with iron in hand, sweat dripping from our brow that is furrowed with the determination and heart that has lasted a lifetime?
Sorry Tom, your lame dog won't hunt in these woods!
Someone had the jewls to call a spade a spade. Unreal in the day and age of ass-licking delusionists. Mutha-fukin Bravo!
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"Could you imagine if Tiger Woods, Ernie Els and Davis Love III went on golf forums and ripped on all the amateur duffers out there for not achieving their level of success? How about if Bill Gates, Jack Welch and Michael Eisner propagated small business forums and chided the members there, telling them they should give up because they haven't come close to grossing a billion dollars yet?
Pro bodybuilding is very quickly losing its mystique. The athletes could very easily take the mantle of benevolent icons, just by keeping their mouths closed when discretion deems it so."
These comments for me hit home more than any of the drugs vs. no drugs arguments here. Not all pros treat their fans like jerks on here or in person, however, quite a few do and I think we know who falls into each category. Professionals shouldn't lower themselves the way some have been seen to do by getting involved in jeuvenile pissing contests.
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isn't it unethical for these guys to write for Flex when they know that Flex promotes the drug look and is probably the reason a lot of people get onto gear in the first place.
More importantly Flex is also somewhat responsible for the shift in judging standards that causes people to up their dosages (and get on gh and slin to keep up) jeopardizing their health.
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A few years ago when I was a loyal Flex reader, they had an article about Tom and Titus, when they were friends. They were talking about naturals and saying it's no big deal and they wish the naturals would just leave them alone. They made no denials they were on, but were saying they were always put down, behind their backs of course, buy naturals. No bad mouthing just stating that all pros and top armatures use so what's the big deal. Just leave us alone and we'll leave you alone. I wish I'd saved the issue. Anyone remember it?
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A few years ago when I was a loyal Flex reader, they had an article about Tom and Titus, when they were friends. They were talking about naturals and saying it's no big deal and they wish the naturals would just leave them alone. They made no denials they were on, but were saying they were always put down, behind their backs of course, buy naturals. No bad mouthing just stating that all pros and top armatures use so what's the big deal. Just leave us alone and we'll leave you alone. I wish I'd saved the issue. Anyone remember it?
Big deal. Prince and Titus have shown themselves to be two losers.
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wow time flys....
"It would take ten years....blah blah blah....all my clothes are too big for me ....blah blah blah......"
Bob: "Hey there ole' Tommy Boy, If anyone knows about shirkning its none other than the man himself....Ahhhh yes, the one the only, ....cause there is only one..did you get that joke, i thought it was funny, Tommy Boy .....Mister Tom Prince....!"
Tom: "Lets add another 30 minutes of cardio each night..."
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"Could you imagine if Tiger Woods, Ernie Els and Davis Love III went on golf forums and ripped on all the amateur duffers out there for not achieving their level of success? How about if Bill Gates, Jack Welch and Michael Eisner propagated small business forums and chided the members there, telling them they should give up because they haven't come close to grossing a billion dollars yet?
Pro bodybuilding is very quickly losing its mystique. The athletes could very easily take the mantle of benevolent icons, just by keeping their mouths closed when discretion deems it so."
These comments for me hit home more than any of the drugs vs. no drugs arguments here. Not all pros treat their fans like jerks on here or in person, however, quite a few do and I think we know who falls into each category. Professionals shouldn't lower themselves the way some have been seen to do by getting involved in jeuvenile pissing contests.
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Exactly. These two guys deserve everything they get.
If you are going to act delusional expect to be called on it. It offends me that some people think they can behave poorly or in a way reflective of double standards and not be called on it. You can't have it both ways.
Look at this nonsense. Tom was trying to make us believe that his weight loss was desired and actually a challenging thing for him. ::)
Monster Fabrication of lies and Explicit Epic Delusionality.
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I couldn't have put it better myself.
How did Jeff have the foresight to know Tom would look like he never touched a weight before? Was it that painfully obvious that Tom was completely steroid dependent? I thought that maybe Tom would keep SOME of his gains. It blew my mind to see him shrinking to under 180 pounds after the fact.
I honestly cannot think of many Pro Bodybuilders who wouldn`t shrink dramatically. I just can`t believe they don`t realize how dependent they are on it. I have known many naturals to stop training and eating the 6 meals a day and still sport abs and an unnoticeable weight fluctuation, hardly any muscle loss at all.
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Was it that painfully obvious that Tom was completely hormone dependent?
The guy was 280+ at 5'8" (if that). What do you think? ;D
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Tom nearly died because of his "hard work" as a bodybuilder (i.e. drug use).
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Tom nearly died because of his "hard work" as a bodybuilder (i.e. drug use).
He nearly died for us bitches! ;D
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(http://www.wackypackages.org/realproductsscans/2004/jk/advil_small.jpg)
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He nearly died for us bitches! ;D
Bastard! you took the words right out of my mouth! ;)
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Thanks man, but the credit for what I wrote belongs more to the man whom I quoted. I really believe that some of the pros in our "sport" misrepresent what things should be like. All professional sports have jerks, but, in any other sport, there are hundreds of players, and if any get out of line with fans or what not, they are disciplined appropriately. They are held to standards of behaviour and when they fail to meet these standards, they are held accountable. Our "sport" as it is, is a joke, regardless of drug use or not. The classy guys are too quiet for people to notice, and the jackasses get all the press time.
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Exactly. These two guys deserve everything they get.
If you are going to act delusional expect to be called on it. It offends me that some people think they can behave poorly or in a way reflective of double standards and not be called on it. You can't have it both ways.
Look at this nonsense. Tom was trying to make us believe that his weight loss was desired and actually a challenging thing for him. ::)
This probably qualifies as one of the worst self-ownings in bodybuildign history.
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I honestly cannot think of many Pro Bodybuilders who wouldn`t shrink dramatically. I just can`t believe they don`t realize how dependent they are on it. I have known many naturals to stop training and eating the 6 meals a day and still sport abs and an unnoticeable weight fluctuation, hardly any muscle loss at all.
these naturals probably didn't have much noticeable muscle to begin with
nobody under 5'10 weighs a lean 180 without training and diet
I don't know why tom felt the need to lie so much though :-\
E
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The bodybuilders that are only 'juice made' are pathetic and deserve all the horrendous health problems they end up with. But the fire that burns in you Adonis burns just as brightly in some steroid users. Just because someone uses steroids it doesn't mean they suddenly become lazy, chemical obsessed morons. Dorian? Ronnie? Yes, when all the gear is gone from someones body all the gains will eventualy go. Thats the nature of the beast and most of us understand it. Its the ones that don't that tend to be assholes. My natrual weight is 15 and a half stone [fuck knows what that is in pounds], and when i eventually decide to call it a day with the needle i'll remain at that. I will never stop training - i love it.
However:
1] Most natruals are always buying the latest shite like gamma o. "gauraunteed to give you steroid like gains!" etc etc. Then there was the whole pro hormone nonsense.
2] Most natruals despise current pros and claim they're all drugs - whilst creaming all over pics of Arnold 'king of dbol' Shwarzeneggar.
3] Most natruals tend to obsess about gear. Prime examples Adonis and Mat C
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The bodybuilders that are only 'juice made' are pathetic and deserve all the horrendous health problems they end up with. But the fire that burns in you Adonis burns just as brightly in some steroid users. Just because someone uses steroids it doesn't mean they suddenly become lazy, chemical obsessed morons. Dorian? Ronnie? Yes, when all the gear is gone from someones body all the gains will eventualy go. Thats the nature of the beast and most of us understand it. Its the ones that don't that tend to be assholes. My natrual weight is 15 and a half stone [f**k knows what that is in pounds], and when i eventually decide to call it a day with the needle i'll remain at that. I will never stop training - i lov
However:
1] Most natruals are always buying the latest shite like gamma o. "gauraunteed to give you steroid like gains!" etc etc. Then there was the whole pro hormone nonsense.
2] Most natruals despise current pros and claim they're all drugs - whilst creaming all over pics of Arnold 'king of dbol' Shwarzeneggar.
3] Most natruals tend to obsess about gear. Prime examples Adonis and Mat C
I don't feel that you are being fair here making these kinds of generalizations. One should be careful when making them I think.
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Tom was very insecure. Anybody who is daft enough to give a german a Nazi salute clearly has an IQ that might be in the double digits.
Tom is every possible stereotype to do with bodybuilders and bodybuilding all rolled into one meathead. People seem to think stereotypes are just pulled out of nowhere and they have no basis. Actually the overwhelming majority of stereotypes are based on fact.
Isn't Tom a math teacher by education? I thinkl I remember him saying he had a masters degree? C'mon, man I think your way off with that comment...unless it isn't the most common "stereotype" that BB's are not intelligent.
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Looking at that screen cap from Mayhem is unreal. Tom Prince is the ultimate reap what you sow story. I mean after all that he has said, and he probably was delusional enough to beleive it at the time, now he has to look right in the mirror everyday and realize, he really was all drugs. No wonder he is hiding under a rock somewhere, if came on this board he would be owned hourly, make that twice hourly. ;D
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that's terrible
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The bodybuilders that are only 'juice made' are pathetic and deserve all the horrendous health problems they end up with. But the fire that burns in you Adonis burns just as brightly in some steroid users. Just because someone uses steroids it doesn't mean they suddenly become lazy, chemical obsessed morons. Dorian? Ronnie? Yes, when all the gear is gone from someones body all the gains will eventualy go. Thats the nature of the beast and most of us understand it. Its the ones that don't that tend to be assholes. My natrual weight is 15 and a half stone [f**k knows what that is in pounds], and when i eventually decide to call it a day with the needle i'll remain at that. I will never stop training - i love it.
However:
1] Most natruals are always buying the latest shite like gamma o. "gauraunteed to give you steroid like gains!" etc etc. Then there was the whole pro hormone nonsense.
2] Most natruals despise current pros and claim they're all drugs - whilst creaming all over pics of Arnold 'king of dbol' Shwarzeneggar.
3] Most natruals tend to obsess about gear. Prime examples Adonis and Mat C
I think you need to get out more and meet a few natural competitors.Most have a lot of respect for non natural bodybuilders as long as they do not compete in natural shows.Like I said in a previous post we all make are choices but,at the end of the day,natural or not we're all bodybuilders.
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Monster delusions. :o
http://www.musclemayhem.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7408
"Tom, what weight/bodyfat level would you like to settle at?" - Dial_tone
"I'm thinking 235-240 at around 6% bodyfat.
It's going to be difficult to get DOWN to 235. I'm not sure if I can do it, and keep lifting weights at the same time. I may have to quit doing everything but cardio to get to that. Even being 100% clean, if I weight train 3 days a week, doing 3-4 sets per bodypart, I'm worried that I won't be able to drop below 255-260.
Should be a fun challange." - Tom Prince
"WELL TOM I WISH I HAD UR GENETICS...BEING CLEAN AND NOT BEING ABLE TO DROP THAT KIND OF WEIGHT...EVEN TO THE POINT OF ONLY DOING CARDIO...SHOWS THAT PRO BB ISNT ALL ABOUT ANABOLICS BUT IS MORE HARDWORK THAN ANYTHING..." - badboymuscle
LOL @ the green comment. Typical mayhem ass kiss remark. I guess badboymuscle didn't want to get banned.
ROFLMAO....This guy is a one man comedy show.......The nubain must have fried his brain.
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Yep, my friend thought that too. He said when Tom gave Gunter the Hitler salute in the BFTO 2002 DVD it may have been because he was just always high on painkillers and his inhibitions are loose. Honestly, I'm pretty sure that was the case.
I'm digging...these have all been screencapped in case the mods at mayhem try to delete Tom's account or something:
http://www.musclemayhem.com/forums/showthread.php?p=143896
"SWOLE, YOU FUCKING COWARDLY PIECE OF SHIT..
f**k YOU... *You think I need to HIDE behind some bullshit screen name if I want to confront you? *Yeah, I saw how much of a badass you were at Nationals when you went so far out of your way NOT to find me.
If I want to come take a piss on your head, I will. *I don't need to hide to do it. *Same way I don't need your bullshit little fucking games getting the other brain dead sheep on this site to believe that GOSSIP is me. *No way that I couldn't be just concentrating on running my business and working..?
This is exactly why I haven't been posting on this site. *Why bother? *Chad's one of my best friends, but he can't control some of the assholes over here. *
SWOLE, I'll be the USA, Nationals, and the Olympia. *I'm easy to find. * You want to talk mad shit, come do it in person you 10-cent bitch. * Keep being a BITCH, and runnin' that mouth. * Everybody's so much tougher from 3000 miles away.
JEFF, you know GODDAMN good and well I have NO problemn confronting you. But the same thing goes for you. You can find me any day in Gold's. I'll be happy to settle it ANY WAY YOU GODDAMN WANT TO." - Tom Prince
can you imagine him saying that stuff now?
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These are some fine examples of M e l t d o w n s.
Tom Prince thought he would be able to just juice forever. He was wrapped up in some skewed "big-man" personna he acquired with the drugs.
hahahahahah
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Adam, get Jeff McFarland back on here if you can. You guys used to be close right?
Check this out:
"And, just to reitterate for ARISTOTLE, I won Nationals,and turned pro, WITHOUT GROWTH. *In fact, and I've said this before, I spent about $1500 on gear in 1997, when I won Nationals. *That was smallest amount of gear I ever took for a show. *" - Tom Prince
$1,500 is the least he spent in prep...wow.
hahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you know sometimes i feel bad for laughing at this guy's plight but when you see how much of an asshole he was it's hard to, i genuinely felt sorry for Mike Morris in a way watching that video clip of him above because you can tell that he is a genuinely nice guy but Prince is an asshole.
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This thread shouldn't die.
It should be pointed out that Tom represented everything that was wrong with bodybuilding - literally every bad stereotype related to meatheads suited him perfectly.
It's people like him who get all the press and reflect the group as a whole which will keep steroids illegal and keep stereotypes alive.
totally agreed.
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This thread shouldn't die.
It should be pointed out that Tom represented everything that was wrong with bodybuilding - literally every bad stereotype related to meatheads suited him perfectly.
It's people like him who get all the press and reflect the group as a whole which will keep steroids illegal and keep stereotypes alive.
If you don't want that perception of BBing to stay, why keep this thread going?
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Fair enough. Maybe the thread should die.
don't worry only bodybuilding fans read bodybuilding boards
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On 1,500+ mg of test a week you would grow more than naturals by far doing nothing. Yes, absolutely nothing, and this is scientific fact - on 600 mg a week it was proven fact by Bhasin and his colleagues in 1996, on 1,500 mg of test a week you could probably place in a local natural show doing 30 pushups a day.
You just proved that you know absolutely nothing about BB. I cant even justify wasting the time to prove you are wrong. YOUR STATEMENT is EXACTLY the reason why Tom Prince-or other enhanced BB's for that matter HATE naturals. 30 pushups ?? You are a FOOL. STFU until you get a CLUE !!
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A few years ago when I was a loyal Flex reader, they had an article about Tom and Titus, when they were friends. They were talking about naturals and saying it's no big deal and they wish the naturals would just leave them alone. They made no denials they were on, but were saying they were always put down, behind their backs of course, buy naturals. No bad mouthing just stating that all pros and top armatures use so what's the big deal. Just leave us alone and we'll leave you alone. I wish I'd saved the issue. Anyone remember it?
I saw them SPEAK those words on a televsion documentary. You are exactly right. It is the NATURAL BB that start all the bullshit by slamming the juicers !! I used to be a natural BB that was JEALOUS of the development of the juicers, so I critcized them. I DID work out VERY hard when I was natural-so I felt PROUD of myself. Once I became a juicer-I had GREAT respect for a natural !!
NATURALS DONT respect the juicers-that is a fact !! While juicers START OFF respecting the NATURALS, until they start talking out their ass like MIKE C in the thread above about doing 30 pushups & winning a local title !! That is an absurd derogatory insult towards juicers !! And that is what Prince & Titus were talking about on the documentary. Thats how it always starts !! The natural insulting the juicer.
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Nothing really prepares you for when you go on the gear. You gain more in two months than you do in a year natrually - as long as you train. All this crap about people that do loads of steroids and look like pros is just insane.
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Typical juicer denial.
If you are using 1,500 mg of testosterone a week, you will grow off 30 pushups a day far and beyond any gains you could ever make naturally, regardless of what training or diet you employ.
You do realize there is scientific evidence for this right?
I guess juiced lifters want to pretend it is some special knowledge of training or nutrition which makes up the brunt of their gains. It's just hard to accept the reality that the most significant strength and muscle gains do indeed come from an injection.
"johnnytosh" probably believes Massive G's claims of a 545lb. incline barbell press and 650 grams of protein/day diet too, hahahaha, monster delusions.
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Why would he even claim that? Your body can only process so much protein and the rest will go to waste. It's not MG's physiology is any different than the rest of the human population. In addition I would think if anyone even attempted to consume that much protein that they would be putting unnecessary stress on their kidneys.
he's just trying to impress the crowd over there with his DC Training bullshit, that guy is such a fucking tool but the sad thing is the way no one calls him on his obvious lies.
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Typical juicer denial.
If you are using 1,500 mg of testosterone a week, you will grow off 30 pushups a day far and beyond any gains you could ever make naturally, regardless of what training or diet you employ.
You do realize there is scientific evidence for this right?
I guess juiced lifters want to pretend it is some special knowledge of training or nutrition which makes up the brunt of their gains. It's just hard to accept the reality that the most significant strength and muscle gains do indeed come from an injection.
Edited to add - Lastly, this whole post is in reply to Tom Prince who by the way, is smaller than I am now, someone who I would consider to be a natural with genetics that are average at best - this is after he had thousands in juice pumped into him for 18 years. Here was a guy built off juice who wouldn't even be my size off juice saying juice is an insignificant factor! Let alone all the larger natural (or clean) trainers on this board, e.g., True Adonis. If Tom was standing behind True Adonis he would disappear.
I'll bust out some before and after pics of various pros on and off juice in my next thread.
Scientific evidence ?? You're insane !! Please produce the name of 1 actual living person that has won a local title by only doing 30 push-ups / day !! You have 6 BILLION people to pick from. BETTER YET.... Why don't you ask professor / doctor "Bhasin & his colleagues" in your Difinitive Landmark bullshit 1996 study to PRODUCE the name of that person ?? Dr. Bhasin still has all his records, doesn't he ?
I mean it was such a scientific study.. ::)
You always talk about scientific evidence as if you hold the trump card.
Until you produce the name of ONE PERSON that accomplished the absurd feat that you state,
THERE WAS NO STUDY !!
EVERYBODY I know that has ever won ANY title has trained their balls off. Of Course the juicer gets phonomenal gains, I never dis-agreed with that.
For the record, I trained for 16 years natural, and at the age of 34 I juiced heavy for 1 year to win the title I won in 2000. I juiced 1 more year after that contest & have trained the last 5 years natural !!
So I have been training natural for 21 years !! I know what the juice can & can't do. I have always trained hard. The juice allows you to train harder..
I don't care what Tom Prince looks like now, after his illness. That wasn't the statement that I responded to. I personally know national level heavyweights that eat 600 grams protein / day, in fact I am good friends with one...Todd Mendelson, who took 16th (SPHWT) in the nationals last year in Atlanta. I know for a fact thats how much he eats during his bulking phase. His kidneys have not exploded yet as you claim they would & he in 40 years old.
If you actually WATCHED what Tom Prince said, like I did, he simply said the Natty's should leave the juicers alone & quit with all the sour grapes. He doesn't care if someone juices or not.. It's no different than having the office GEEK go around the office telling everyone that "So & So" uses Steroids. The Natty likes to tear down the juicer-JUST LIKE I DID BEFORE I USED !! Because I was upset I wasn't getting the gains they were.. But the Juicers never tore me down, they were too busy training.
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My point is, on hormones you will grow without training, as long as your caloric and protein intake is high. Maybe the pushups example was a bit of a stretch, but my point is clear.
I AGREE with what you are saying, that some guys just EXPLODE from the juice, while a NATTY can do everything right & still not get good gains. ANd I don't respect people that hit the gas the first year they start training. They are mentally weak.. So were are basically in agreement... I think.
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Scientific evidence ?? You're insane !! Please produce the name of 1 actual living person that has won a local title by only doing 30 push-ups / day !!
MattC didn't even bring up the idea of winning a title. He just stated that there is scientific evidence saying the the average person doing thirty push-ups a day while on juice will grow more than somebody not even training. There was no mention of a BBing contest nor any placement, in the study he cited.
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natty? whos natty? With things like m1t or superdrol or pro hormones out the ass, nattys are hypocrites and nothing more. Because its not illegal yet they think they are holier then thou.
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MattC didn't even bring up the idea of winning a title. He just stated that there is scientific evidence saying the the average person doing thirty push-ups a day while on juice will grow more than somebody not even training. There was no mention of a BBing contest nor any placement, in the study he cited.
We are BOTH half right & half wrong. If you read Matts post on July 12, he cited the study that 30 push-ups would enable a person using 1500 mg /test / wk to place in a natural show.
I mis-read that to mean winning a local title. Obviously thre is a difference in winning a local non-tested title, compared to only placing in a natural show.. So I was wrong there. But Matt C certainly DID mention a BB contest & a Placement
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natty? whos natty? With things like m1t or superdrol or pro hormones out the ass, nattys are hypocrites and nothing more. Because its not illegal yet they think they are holier then thou.
This is true
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natty? whos natty? With things like m1t or superdrol or pro hormones out the ass, nattys are hypocrites and nothing more. Because its not illegal yet they think they are holier then thou.
I would never use that shit either.
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I would never use that shit either.
If you take any of that you cannot be considered natural-all on the IOC banned list.
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If you take any of that you cannot be considered natural-all on the IOC banned list.
Exactly.