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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: donrhummy on September 26, 2006, 12:33:16 PM

Title: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: donrhummy on September 26, 2006, 12:33:16 PM
True Adonis, your transformation was impressive but you need to get a grip on reality. There were bigger, just as ripped bodybuilders as you in 1904!! For example, Wladyslaw Kurcharczyk, aka Bobby Pandour who actually BEATS you.

(http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/Competition/Pandour/pandour2.jpg)
(http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/Competition/Pandour/pandour3.jpg)

Yep, that's from 1904 WAY before steroids, supplements, gurus, nutritionists, etc. So enough of overstating your development, ok.  ;)
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: Whiskey on September 26, 2006, 12:40:33 PM
Skeletor is just trying to hype himself up thats all.

Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: johnnyx on September 26, 2006, 12:43:48 PM
The pictures are not showing up.  :-\
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: donrhummy on September 26, 2006, 12:44:10 PM
Here's another guy from 1904 (Albert Treloar):
(http://www.sandowmuseum.com/treloar.jpg)
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: donrhummy on September 26, 2006, 12:44:42 PM
Perhaps TA has him beat on cock sore growth?

LMAO!  :D
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: donrhummy on September 26, 2006, 12:45:42 PM
The pictures are not showing up.  :-\

They seem to be working for others. Try right-clicking on the picture, properties, copy the URL and paste into another browser.
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: donrhummy on September 26, 2006, 12:48:21 PM
Hey so how do you these guys would've done in the Mr. Getbig contest?


Here's one from 1932:
(http://www.sandowmuseum.com/000strongmanx.jpg)
http://www.sandowmuseum.com/000strongmanx.jpg
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: donrhummy on September 26, 2006, 12:52:27 PM
Fred Rollon, 1924.

(http://www.bigsteel.iwarp.com/Gallery/Rollon.JPG)

One thing to remember, pictures from the early 1900's are always softer than reality. So these guys are actually more ripped than they appear.
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: The True Adonis on September 26, 2006, 12:53:35 PM
:) Compare.
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: donrhummy on September 26, 2006, 12:54:18 PM
Monte Saldo from 18-friggin-97! Yep, 1897.

(http://www.sandowmuseum.com/montesaldo.jpg)
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: theworm on September 26, 2006, 12:55:33 PM
Now, all these people are tiny.  I see some black folks down the neighborhood who are HUGE!!  and they never touched a weight.  Ronnie Coleman circa 1990-93 was supposed to be natural and I believe it cause some of these blacks are naturally huge and ripped.
i know one white guy who looked like branch, and never took a steroid ever.
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: theworm on September 26, 2006, 12:56:41 PM
:) Compare.


TA,,,u beat them all on that major bald spot!!  LOL
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: tom joad on September 26, 2006, 12:58:28 PM
i know one white guy who looked like branch, and never took a steroid ever.

but maybe he was on the MuscleTech stack?
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: The True Adonis on September 26, 2006, 01:04:09 PM
These guys are what I aspire to.

You see,
When you are lifetime Natural you only look better and better with age.

You end up looking incredible by your late 30s.

Its really great this way.
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: donrhummy on September 26, 2006, 01:08:01 PM
Now, all these people are tiny.  I see some black folks down the neighborhood who are HUGE!!  and they never touched a weight.  Ronnie Coleman circa 1990-93 was supposed to be natural and I believe it cause some of these blacks are naturally huge and ripped.
i know one white guy who looked like branch, and never took a steroid ever.

 ::) People in general are taller, bigger today that 100 years ago. The average height af a man is estimated to be almost 5 inches greater today. Also, we weight 40 lbs more on average. Which makes what these guys did even more impressive.
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: HERACLES on September 26, 2006, 01:11:36 PM
TA looks impressive, and made a huge transformation. I dont think no one on this site knew how out of shape he really was...but if you go to a natural show, youll be surprised at some of the qualit yphysiques there...
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: SWOLETRAIN on September 26, 2006, 01:16:34 PM
what about Skip la cour? natural?
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: Hedgehog on September 26, 2006, 01:19:44 PM
Had this guy entered, it would've been game over. Hopefully myseone will enter next year and show how it's done.

(http://www.bodybuilders.com/lawrence_qbig.jpg)

YIP
Zack
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: The True Adonis on September 26, 2006, 01:20:15 PM
what about Skip la cour? natural?


He is a clown.

Not sure of his status though. But his status as being a clown is confirmed.
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: Jezebelle on September 26, 2006, 01:23:09 PM
Adam brought up these old dudes in another post and made a point to say that the "science" of muscle building really hasn't changed in that time.  Those guys are as big as naturals get - both back then and now.

I agree completely!
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: Hedgehog on September 26, 2006, 01:23:54 PM
He is a clown.

Not sure of his status though. But his status as being a clown is confirmed.

Why is he a clown?

YIP
Zack
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: Jezebelle on September 26, 2006, 01:24:41 PM
These pictures are great, here's some more!
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: zed on September 26, 2006, 01:25:30 PM
u really dont know? ta ill second that on clown status. btw bob pandour is a beastio
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: Whiskey on September 26, 2006, 01:28:21 PM
Your status as being an ugly pug nosed gimp with chicken legs has also been confirmed Skeletor
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: The True Adonis on September 26, 2006, 01:28:39 PM
Had this guy entered, it would've been game over. Hopefully myseone will enter next year and show how it's done.

(http://www.bodybuilders.com/lawrence_qbig.jpg)

YIP
Zack

He is a former juicer.

Just thought you should know that Hedgehog.
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: Miss Demeanor on September 26, 2006, 01:36:19 PM
He is a former juicer.

Just thought you should know that Hedgehog.

He is?

Still, since guys on juice usually lose everything, the most pertinent question would be, how long has Myseone been clean (if he ever has used; I don't know him)?  If it's a long time, whether he used or not shouldn't matter.

You look good btw, Adam.  Are you going to continue to cut up?

P.S. -- You, your girl, me and my boyfriend should hook up for a workout if you're ever in Charlotte.  Or maybe Raleigh.  How close are you to that area?
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: Hedgehog on September 26, 2006, 01:38:11 PM
He is a former juicer.

Just thought you should know that Hedgehog.

How do you know?

YIP
Zack
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: The True Adonis on September 26, 2006, 01:59:16 PM
How do you know?

YIP
Zack

He has said it many times.

Look at his old posts.
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: mwbbuilder on September 26, 2006, 02:02:26 PM
Hedge,

Don't you know that anyone who is bigger than a loudmouth, preaching LIFETIME NATURAL (insert any one of their names here....and they always capitalize LIFETIME NATURAL...every single one of them)

MUST BE ON DRUGS NOW OR ARE FORMER JUICERS?

That's the way it works among naturals.

God help us all of TA is the best a LIFETIME NATURAL (ha ha) can get!

What is TA? 25 years old? Training for 5 years? Wow! The best on the planet in such little time! That must be some accomplishment!
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: Miss Demeanor on September 26, 2006, 02:08:46 PM
He has said it many times.

Look at his old posts.

You seem to have very selective reading habits  :-\  Even if he did, aren't you of the school that says juicers lose everything after they stop?  So what does it matter if he used a long time ago?  Could he keep the juice-fed muscle or not?

I also guess you don't want to take us up on the workout offer  ???
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: Hedgehog on September 26, 2006, 02:10:58 PM
Hedge,

Don't you know that anyone who is bigger than a loudmouth, preaching LIFETIME NATURAL (insert any one of their names here....and they always capitalize LIFETIME NATURAL...every single one of them)

MUST BE ON DRUGS NOW OR ARE FORMER JUICERS?

That's the way it works among naturals.

God help us all of TA is the best a LIFETIME NATURAL (ha ha) can get!

Tell you what.

Watch this clip of an 18 year old kid, weighing 198 lbs and squatting 660+ lbs for a double.



And he gets tested for steroids both in and out of meets. Recently won the IPF Sub Junior World's.



YIP
Zack
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: mwbbuilder on September 26, 2006, 02:15:03 PM
Is that good for a youngster's health?
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: Hedgehog on September 26, 2006, 02:25:21 PM
Is that good for a youngster's health?

Legit question. I know he's been training fairly light since he was 14 years old, and only in the last 12 months or so have started to up the load.

IMO, this shows what someone with great genetics can achieve in powerlifting. Why would bodybuilding be much different? However, I don't believe you will reach your peak as a natural in either powerlifting or bodybuilding before 43-46 years of age.

It takes much longer time. And the muscle mass will obviously never be of the same proportions. But I'm sure it could be bigger than what many believe is possible.

A 6 feet tall guy weighing contest shape 230 lbs? Definitely possible IMO.

YIP
Zack
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: The True Adonis on September 26, 2006, 02:26:17 PM
You seem to have very selective reading habits  :-\  Even if he did, aren't you of the school that says juicers lose everything after they stop?  So what does it matter if he used a long time ago?  Could he keep the juice-fed muscle or not?

I also guess you don't want to take us up on the workout offer  ???

HE DID LOSE IT ALL..

HE POSTED THAT HE DID LOSE IT ALL...DO YOUR RESEARCH!
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: Miss Demeanor on September 26, 2006, 03:03:49 PM
HE DID LOSE IT ALL..

HE POSTED THAT HE DID LOSE IT ALL...DO YOUR RESEARCH!

Angry all-caps typing and still no answer we'll take as a "no."  Too bad.

I'll try to make this Myseone thing simple for you.  YOU made the claim, so YOU present the evidence.  I'm not going to go digging around old posts to prove YOUR point FOR you  ::)

And if he lost the steroid muscle, why bother to bring it up?  The way you said "oooh, he used to be a juicer!" insinuates there's something less than honest in the physique he could bring to the table.  Kind of like some of the nasty things you're saying about Whateva, but it's increasingly obvious your ego just can't cope with someone being stronger, more muscular, etc.
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: rjp on September 26, 2006, 03:12:41 PM
Angry all-caps typing and still no answer we'll take as a "no."  Too bad.

I'll try to make this Myseone thing simple for you.  YOU made the claim, so YOU present the evidence.  I'm not going to go digging around old posts to prove YOUR point FOR you  ::)

And if he lost the steroid muscle, why bother to bring it up?  The way you said "oooh, he used to be a juicer!" insinuates there's something less than honest in the physique he could bring to the table.  Kind of like some of the nasty things you're saying about Whateva, but it's increasingly obvious your ego just can't cope with someone being stronger, more muscular, etc.

Now THAT was a proper owning. No gay references, no mother jokes...just the facts. Bravo! 8)
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: natural al on September 26, 2006, 03:33:30 PM
He is a clown.

Not sure of his status though. But his status as being a clown is confirmed.

why do you say this???
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: The True Adonis on September 26, 2006, 03:36:50 PM
Angry all-caps typing and still no answer we'll take as a "no."  Too bad.

I'll try to make this Myseone thing simple for you.  YOU made the claim, so YOU present the evidence.  I'm not going to go digging around old posts to prove YOUR point FOR you  ::)

And if he lost the steroid muscle, why bother to bring it up?  The way you said "oooh, he used to be a juicer!" insinuates there's something less than honest in the physique he could bring to the table.  Kind of like some of the nasty things you're saying about Whateva, but it's increasingly obvious your ego just can't cope with someone being stronger, more muscular, etc.

There you go.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=93110.msg1343185#msg1343185
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: The True Adonis on September 26, 2006, 03:38:26 PM
Angry all-caps typing and still no answer we'll take as a "no."  Too bad.

I'll try to make this Myseone thing simple for you.  YOU made the claim, so YOU present the evidence.  I'm not going to go digging around old posts to prove YOUR point FOR you  ::)

And if he lost the steroid muscle, why bother to bring it up?  The way you said "oooh, he used to be a juicer!" insinuates there's something less than honest in the physique he could bring to the table.  Kind of like some of the nasty things you're saying about Whateva, but it's increasingly obvious your ego just can't cope with someone being stronger, more muscular, etc.

There you go. What do you have to say about that?

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=93110.msg1343185#msg1343185
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: natural al on September 26, 2006, 03:58:31 PM
TA.....why do you think Lacour is a clown.....now lets be fair and give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he is natural, what has he done to be a certified clown?
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: Bluto on September 26, 2006, 04:03:20 PM
TA looks impressive, and made a huge transformation. I dont think no one on this site knew how out of shape he really was...but if you go to a natural show, youll be surprised at some of the qualit yphysiques there...

He will bounce back and become a lard ass again, just like every other moron on a crash diet. Right now he's setting himself up for a lifetime addiction to burgers and icecream.

The next contest we'll see him take part of will be the Biggest Loser.

(http://www.realitynewsonline.com/images/biggestloserlogo.jpg)
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: Parker on September 26, 2006, 04:22:06 PM
Had this guy entered, it would've been game over. Hopefully myseone will enter next year and show how it's done.

(http://www.bodybuilders.com/lawrence_qbig.jpg)

YIP
Zack

Who is this dude?
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: WiseGuy on September 26, 2006, 04:59:01 PM
Who is this dude?


some clown who hedge claims is a natty....




 ::)
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: gibberj2 on September 26, 2006, 05:02:11 PM
adonis while i doubt skip is natural you are nobody to call people clowns being one yourself. for the record i thought you were a close 2nd in mr getbig.
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: nder98 on September 26, 2006, 05:35:57 PM
Had this guy entered, it would've been game over. Hopefully myseone will enter next year and show how it's done.

(http://www.bodybuilders.com/lawrence_qbig.jpg)

YIP
Zack

Whos this guy? He was natural? :o
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: nder98 on September 26, 2006, 05:37:34 PM
Your status as being an ugly pug nosed gimp with chicken legs has also been confirmed Skeletor

HAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: MAXX on September 26, 2006, 05:41:54 PM
These pictures are great, here's some more!
The delusionality is profound...
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: figgs on September 26, 2006, 05:47:10 PM
Whos this guy? He was natural? :o

If you're capable of believing he squatted 2,000 pounds (as claimed), then you're capable of believing he's natural.

 ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: nder98 on September 26, 2006, 05:50:44 PM
If you're capable of believing he squatted 2,000 pounds (as claimed), then you're capable of believing he's natural.

 ::) ::) ::)

This is true...   :-[  Guess Im pretty gulible..
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: rocket on September 26, 2006, 05:51:23 PM
There you go.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=93110.msg1343185#msg1343185

Haha

Funny how things get decidedly quiet when you point that out isn't it.

Thanks for that, I didn't know either.  Now I know to discount that guy in terms of physique attainable by lifetime natural.

Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: donrhummy on September 26, 2006, 08:46:51 PM
OK, TA, here's your comparison...Not much advancement in 102 years...
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: texasRUSH on September 26, 2006, 08:52:16 PM
okay i have a question...

why would anyone go into an OPEN contest and bitch because they lost to a juicer?


 ???

Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: no one on September 26, 2006, 09:59:14 PM

true ethiopean...

seriously, why are you so proud of being natural when you look like shit?

your body is like the car a 16 year old kid buys and tricks out with plastic chrome rims, 5- 10 inch subs, tints the windows and proceeds to roll out like 'Luda. and despite the fact its a rusty piece of shit he thinks he's the coolest kid on the block.

other looking at that kid just shake thier head and think...' wow what a loser...'

much in the same manner the whole internet community looks at you.

just thought you should know.

no need to thank me.
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: The True Adonis on September 26, 2006, 10:17:30 PM
true ethiopean...

seriously, why are you so proud of being natural when you look like shit?

your body is like the car a 16 year old kid buys and tricks out with plastic chrome rims, 5- 10 inch subs, tints the windows and proceeds to roll out like 'Luda. and despite the fact its a rusty piece of shit he thinks he's the coolest kid on the block.

other looking at that kid just shake thier head and think...' wow what a loser...'

much in the same manner the whole internet community looks at you.

just thought you should know.

no need to thank me.

Run along back to mayhem Massive G.
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: Van_Bilderass on September 26, 2006, 11:07:06 PM
Legit question. I know he's been training fairly light since he was 14 years old, and only in the last 12 months or so have started to up the load.

IMO, this shows what someone with great genetics can achieve in powerlifting. Why would bodybuilding be much different? However, I don't believe you will reach your peak as a natural in either powerlifting or bodybuilding before 43-46 years of age.

It takes much longer time. And the muscle mass will obviously never be of the same proportions. But I'm sure it could be bigger than what many believe is possible.

A 6 feet tall guy weighing contest shape 230 lbs? Definitely possible IMO.

YIP
Zack
Hedge, how is the doping situation among the elite powerlifters in Sweden really? I'm in Sweden also and a few years ago I trained and spoke with a few PLers and they said there was a lot of steroid use in the sport. They also claimed some of the best lifters were "protected", they made sure somehow that they weren't tested during certain periods etc. Is there this type of corruption today? Are you personally certain that this kid for example never used any steroids?
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: Miss Demeanor on September 27, 2006, 07:00:51 AM
There you go. What do you have to say about that?

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=93110.msg1343185#msg1343185

Interesting.  Myseone said...

At a height of just under 5'11" I have achieved a build of 210lbs, single digit body fat, without drugs (I have been clean for about 10 years, with drugs up to 230lbs single digits). My body weight now fluctuates between 200 and 210, and still single digits are held.

and...

Concerning the strength I'm always strong, and have always been strong, and have lifted all the weights I posted clean. With the drugs I was a lot stronger, but I did'nt want to get ill and sick from D-bol or sus, so i stopped.

That proves my earlier point very nicely.  I said:  "...the most pertinent question would be, how long has Myseone been clean (if he ever has used; I don't know him)?  If it's a long time, whether he used or not shouldn't matter."

He has been off drugs for 10 years.  Therefore, steroids are a non-factor in his current build and strength.  You can poopoo him for not being a lifetime natural but that's just semantic nitpicking.  What he has today is purely his.  Zack is right to regard him as an awesome natural bodybuilder.
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: Hedgehog on September 27, 2006, 07:40:35 AM
Hedge, how is the doping situation among the elite powerlifters in Sweden really? I'm in Sweden also and a few years ago I trained and spoke with a few PLers and they said there was a lot of steroid use in the sport. They also claimed some of the best lifters were "protected", they made sure somehow that they weren't tested during certain periods etc. Is there this type of corruption today? Are you personally certain that this kid for example never used any steroids?

Legit question.

Regarding this kid, I'm as certain as can be. I believe there may be a economic liability, if a powerlifter gets caught.


IMO, since the end of the 90's, most top lifters in Sweden are truly lifetime natural.

Certain lifters have been caught over the years, and last year the biggest name in Swedish powerlifting was caught. A fatal blow.

But I still believe that he was a bad seed, and that powerlifters that represent Sweden internationally these days are natural.

Back in the 80's however, it was fcuking crazy.


YIP
Zack
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: onlyme on September 27, 2006, 02:19:52 PM
At 6' I was 247 total natural in 1980 or so.  Only protein and allot of liver tabs.
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: gibberj2 on September 27, 2006, 02:21:05 PM
how much bodyfat % ? 
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: alexxx on September 27, 2006, 02:21:32 PM
At 6'3" 1/2 and 241 pounds I was completely natural!
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: fathead on September 27, 2006, 02:21:44 PM
biggest natural is like saying smartest retard
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: dodger on September 27, 2006, 04:26:48 PM
Hey almost 6'0 and 294,no drugs in my life and with 21' and 20' guns and strong as fuck(well used to be)4 fucked up joints,but hey,BIG DEAL!
Title: Re: Legendary? Biggest Natural? Get a grip on reality...see this...
Post by: gibberj2 on September 27, 2006, 06:03:16 PM
who cares about weight? fat doesn't count anyway.