Author Topic: Right wingers, please speak up!  (Read 4899 times)

Puller

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 190
Re: Right wingers, please speak up!
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2006, 10:58:39 AM »
Puller, "no one complains"?   

Do you watch the news?  We're bombing the f**k outta them.  They're being condemned worldwide.  No one condones such atrocities, and they are summarily killed when captured.  Of course no one condones such terrible things.

But to say "they do it, why can't we" accomplishes their goals- drives the US back to a 3rd world torture mentality and endangers our troops.

Agreed. Just because they do something horrible that does not make it ok for us to do the same. What I meant was, if you turn on any channel but fox, there is much more time spent bashing the president and his ideas that there is bashing truly dangerous leaders or groups. There is more complaining about Bush than there is trying to concentrateon the future and how not to make mistakes going forward. I'm not blind, it's obvious the warin Iraq is in no way going as planned or it should. We (bi-partisan) should be focusing on how to fix this problem, not every little thing that went wrong.

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102387
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: Right wingers, please speak up!
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2006, 11:05:05 AM »
Agreed. Just because they do something horrible that does not make it ok for us to do the same. What I meant was, if you turn on any channel but fox, there is much more time spent bashing the president and his ideas that there is bashing truly dangerous leaders or groups. There is more complaining about Bush than there is trying to concentrateon the future and how not to make mistakes going forward. I'm not blind, it's obvious the warin Iraq is in no way going as planned or it should. We (bi-partisan) should be focusing on how to fix this problem, not every little thing that went wrong.

Here's the thing, Puller. 

The war in iraq was for 4 reasons.  You choose which you want to use.
1) WMD
2) To free the iraqis
3) To spread democracy into middle east
4) To establish longterm viability of US interests in the region

#1 was the TV reason- got people scared, and all revved up.  When that fell thru, #2 was the fallback reason we evolved into.  Now, #3 is used as the bigger goal, how we're making the world a better place, etc.

in reality, we had Afghan war plans ready and troops/infrastructure moving into position before 9/11.  We had Iraqi war plans ready as soon as we were established in Afghanistan.  The US needs a foothold in these regions in order to remain dominant in the world.  Imagine another 10 years, when these Iraqis, Saudis, and Syrians all get online, realize the value of the oil under their feet, convert to the Euro and shut the US out? 

We'd be fucked.  So, we give a series of shady reasons, we invade and establish US bases along exact same route as the future oil pipeline to the indian ocean, and the US essentially holds down the rest of the world an additional 25 years, until some new energy source arises.

It might be a lot to comprehend at once, but it will come to you in time.

OzmO

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22715
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: Right wingers, please speak up!
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2006, 11:08:52 AM »
Here's the thing, Puller. 

The war in iraq was for 4 reasons.  You choose which you want to use.
1) WMD
2) To free the iraqis
3) To spread democracy into middle east
4) To establish longterm viability of US interests in the region

#1 was the TV reason- got people scared, and all revved up.  When that fell thru, #2 was the fallback reason we evolved into.  Now, #3 is used as the bigger goal, how we're making the world a better place, etc.

in reality, we had Afghan war plans ready and troops/infrastructure moving into position before 9/11.  We had Iraqi war plans ready as soon as we were established in Afghanistan.  The US needs a foothold in these regions in order to remain dominant in the world.  Imagine another 10 years, when these Iraqis, Saudis, and Syrians all get online, realize the value of the oil under their feet, convert to the Euro and shut the US out? 

We'd be fucked.  So, we give a series of shady reasons, we invade and establish US bases along exact same route as the future oil pipeline to the indian ocean, and the US essentially holds down the rest of the world an additional 25 years, until some new energy source arises.

It might be a lot to comprehend at once, but it will come to you in time.

I like it!   :P

ToxicAvenger

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26516
  • I thawt I taw a twat!
Re: Right wingers, please speak up!
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2006, 11:14:34 AM »
i agree with bush here...

drowning someone aint torture..

and i'm pro torture..its war for gods sake.....ok we started it for the wrong reasons but now we r in it...

what r we supposed to do...serve tea and politely ask the enemy for info??
carpe` vaginum!

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102387
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: Right wingers, please speak up!
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2006, 11:18:21 AM »
Why do we need torture in 2006 against crazy Iraqis, when we didn't need it in 1944 against crazy japanese?

They were suicide bombers... packed noses of kamikaze planes with bombs and took out aircraft carriers.  They had a far greater attack potential. 

back then, torture was illegal, and we were battling a large coalition of evil nations.  Why is it legal today, when it's a small group of unorganized pricks that we're fighting?

Puller

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 190
Re: Right wingers, please speak up!
« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2006, 12:26:11 PM »
Why do we need torture in 2006 against crazy Iraqis, when we didn't need it in 1944 against crazy japanese?

They were suicide bombers... packed noses of kamikaze planes with bombs and took out aircraft carriers.  They had a far greater attack potential. 

back then, torture was illegal, and we were battling a large coalition of evil nations.  Why is it legal today, when it's a small group of unorganized pricks that we're fighting?

We didn't torture in Japan, we used Enola Gay. Remember that little plane that droped just two bombs.


I'm not saying I believe that there were/are WMDs in Iraq. I do believe Sadam needed to be ousted and the world is a better place without him in power. Also, we should be securing our interests all over the world. If this means we have to go to war, just or unjust depending on opinion, to secure our position ten or twenty years from now then so be it. Even if there weren't WMDs in Iraq it was only a matter of time. The president has listened to both parties and now we have Kim Jong Il testing nuclear weapons and Iran and the Tehran working diligintely to get them. We have to be a proactive country not a reactive one. The days of waiting to be attacked, 12/7/41, 9/11/01, and then deciding to go to war are gone.

Camel Jockey

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16711
  • Mel Gibson and Bob Sly World Domination
Re: Right wingers, please speak up!
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2006, 12:46:00 PM »
I am very right sided and I do think Bush is doing a good job in office. However, I also believe we use the tactics needed to ensure safety for this country. I don't believe there is a dungeonand people are being rackedor having bambooshoots shoved in their nailbeds or water torture. Sensory deprivation, truth serum, and other methods I'm sure are used and very well should be. No terrorist or insurgent is going to say, "Well, I guess you got me. What do you want to know?" Things don't work that way. The country is a safer place and we have stopped many terrorist attacks both here and abroad because of the methods and tactics put in place by the Bush admiistration.

That's fine and dandy, but why can't Bush be upfront about the use of torture tactics?

Puller

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 190
Re: Right wingers, please speak up!
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2006, 12:54:04 PM »
That's fine and dandy, but why can't Bush be upfront about the use of torture tactics?

There are certain things that the general public does not need to know. Like all the tactics we use or our exact military strategies. I acknowledge the fact that Bush and the administration don't always say the right things but the things that are said, are said for a reason. There are people in the white house and pentagon with much more knowledge about the workings of the international community than anyone on this board, including myself. The public should not know everything the government is doing. The majority of the public vote based solely on how they "feel" about a person or whether they like the way the person speaks.

Camel Jockey

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16711
  • Mel Gibson and Bob Sly World Domination
Re: Right wingers, please speak up!
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2006, 01:01:21 PM »
There are certain things that the general public does not need to know. Like all the tactics we use or our exact military strategies. I acknowledge the fact that Bush and the administration don't always say the right things but the things that are said, are said for a reason. There are people in the white house and pentagon with much more knowledge about the workings of the international community than anyone on this board, including myself. The public should not know everything the government is doing. The majority of the public vote based solely on how they "feel" about a person or whether they like the way the person speaks.

I was under the impression that the United States was a democracy.

And you think it's okay for the government to lie to its people? You think the government is always benevolent in its cause? If they can lie to us about these terror interrogation issues, than what's to say they wont lie to us about other things? Bush and his administration are getting away with things, things they would traditionally be punished for. Allowing him to do these kinds of things opens the flood gates for power that would tradionally not be allowed in a democratic republic.

Puller

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 190
Re: Right wingers, please speak up!
« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2006, 01:10:21 PM »
At what point in the history of this country do you believe the government has not lied to the people. That is the way things go. We sacrifice certain freedoms and rights in order to guarantee the safety. We do not always know whats going on. I support the Bush administration and think they are doing a wonderful job. I admit the Administration is not the best thing since sliced bread but it is not completing incomprehensible acts or crimes against this country

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102387
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: Right wingers, please speak up!
« Reply #35 on: October 28, 2006, 02:05:55 PM »
Puller,

I wish I had the smile you wear through every day of your life. :)

Puller

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 190
Re: Right wingers, please speak up!
« Reply #36 on: October 28, 2006, 02:22:51 PM »
Puller,

I wish I had the smile you wear through every day of your life. :)

 ;D