Lindland - the most dominant middleweight fighter!

[G]

I would suggest the same to you.  ML would have to fight Chuck in the cage, Chuck is the BEST at using the cage to keep himself upright.  ML would have to traverse the striking range to get into the clinch where ML would do his best work.  What does Chuck do the best?  Move side to side, and backwards, cutting weird angles and throwing bombs.  This spells trouble for ML.  Again, if David Terrell can KO Matt, Chuck would send his head into the first row.  I used MVA as an example because MVA didn't fare well against Babalu whom Chuck dismantled twice.  Chuck also dismantled Randy twice, Tito twice.  Do you see the correlation.  Wrestling based MMA fighters who stalk their opponents end up getting TKOed by Chuck (I'm not even a fan of the guy, but I gotta give credit where credit is due).  Watch both Randy/Chuck rematches.  Chuck will back up, cover, and use the cage to "wall walk" up and get back to his feet.  If Randy, a bigger and stronger wrestler than ML can't keep him down, what chance would ML.  You can talk position to me till you are blue in the face, wrestling isn't MMA.  I've been training BJJ for over 10 years, and BJJ isn't MMA.  When you allow punches, elbows, and knees, it changes everything.  Back in 1993 closed guard was the thing, how much do you see now?  A lot of open/x/butterfly.  Particularly where rules allow kneeing/elbowing a downed opponent.  Styles make fights, and Matt's style is perfectly suited for Chuck.  

So yes he has a chance, but not a very good one.  Chuck's match would be a fighter like himself who is a superior striker.  And I think the UFC just signed one, and he wouldn't have to kill himself to make weight.  Right kick hospital, left kick cemetary.  


I agree with this assertion as well.  Hendo is the more accomplished of the two in MMA.  

 blah,blah,blah,,,your post is too damn long and boring to read...what' s gonna happen we can only guess.I 've wrestled for many years , freestyle wrestling for me is sport number one and MAtt Lindland is  a great great wrestler who I respect a lot.I just feel sorry that NHB fighting became so commercial and some the best fighters are not fighting where they should be .
 
  P.S.
 HEndo more accomplished than Lindland?!.......are you fuckin insane..?!You are out of your mind, pal.You 've just lost all you credibility!
Oh, God ... I don't believe this...Please tell me that you are either joking, or been smoking crack, or you are retarded.How can you deny the facts...i'm not the one who rated him N1 on mmaweekly.
  I strted this as appreciation tread for the best middlewieght guy in the moment ...but it turns out that he is goo d, but everyone else in the top 10 is better than him

[americanbulldog]

 blah,blah,blah,,,your post is too damn long and boring to read...what' s gonna happen we can only guess.I 've wrestled for many years , freestyle wrestling for me is sport number one and MAtt Lindland is  a great great wrestler who I respect a lot.I just feel sorry that NHB fighting became so commercial and some the best fighters are not fighting where they should be .
 
  P.S.
 HEndo more accomplished than Lindland?!.......are you fuckin insane..?!You are out of your mind, pal.You 've just lost all you credibility!
Oh, God ... I don't believe this...Please tell me that you are either joking, or been smoking crack, or you are retarded.How can you deny the facts...i'm not the one who rated him N1 on mmaweekly.
  I strted this as appreciation tread for the best middlewieght guy in the moment ...but it turns out that he is goo d, but everyone else in the top 10 is better than him

 Win Vitor Belfort Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE 32-The Real Deal 10/21/2006 3 5:00 
 Loss Kazuo Misaki Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE-Bushido 12 8/26/2006 2 5:00 
 Win Kazuo Misaki Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE-Bushido 10 4/2/2006 2 5:00 
 Win Murilo Bustamante Decision (Split) PRIDE-Shockwave 2005 12/31/2005 2 5:00 
 Win Akihiro Gono KO (Punch) PRIDE-Bushido 9 9/25/2005 1 7:58 
 Win Ryo Chonan KO (Punch) PRIDE-Bushido 9 9/25/2005 1 0:22 
 Loss Antonio Rogerio Nogueira Submission (Armbar) PRIDE-Total Elimination 2005 4/23/2005 1 8:05 
 Win Yuki Kondo Decision (Split) PRIDE-Shockwave 2004 12/31/2004 3 5:00 
 Win Kazuhiro Nakamura TKO (Injury) PRIDE 28-High Octane 10/31/2004 1 1:15 
 Win Murilo Bustamante KO PRIDE-Final Conflict 2003 11/9/2003 1 0:53 
 Win Shungo Oyama TKO (Punches) PRIDE 25-Body Blow 3/16/2003 1 3:28 
 Loss Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira Submission (Armbar) PRIDE 24-Cold Fury 3 12/23/2002 3 1:49 
 Loss Ricardo Arona Decision (Split) PRIDE 20-Armed and Ready 4/28/2002 3 5:00 
 Win Murilo Rua Decision (Split) PRIDE 17-Championship Chaos 11/3/2001 3 5:00 
 Win Akira Shoji TKO (Strikes) PRIDE 14-Clash of the Titans 5/27/2001 3 3:18 
 Win Renzo Gracie KO (Punch) PRIDE 13-Collision Course 3/25/2001 1 1:40 
 Loss Wanderlei Silva Decision PRIDE 12-Cold Fury 12/9/2000 3 5:00 
 Win Renato Sobral Decision (Majority) Rings-King of Kings 1999 Final 2/26/2000 2 5:00 
 Win Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira Decision (Split) Rings-King of Kings 1999 Final 2/26/2000 3 5:00 
 Win Gilbert Yvel Decision (Unanimous) Rings-King of Kings 1999 Final 2/26/2000 2 5:00 
 Win Hiromitsu Kanehara Decision (Majority) Rings-King of Kings 1999 Block A 10/28/1999 2 5:00 
 Win Bakouri Gogitidze Submission (Knee to the Ribs) Rings-King of Kings 1999 Block A 10/28/1999 1 2:17 
 Win Carlos Newton Decision UFC 17-Redemption 5/15/1998 1 15:00 
 Win Allan Goes Decision UFC 17-Redemption 5/15/1998 1 15:00 
 Win Eric Smith TKO (Guillotine Choke) Brazil Open-'97 6/15/1997 1 0:30 
 Win Crezio de Souza TKO (Strikes) Brazil Open-'97 6/15/1997 1 5:25 

This is Hendo's record. 

Win Jeremy Horn TKO (Strikes) IFL-Portland 9/9/2006 2 0:21 
 Loss Quinton Jackson Decision (Split) WFA-King of the Streets 7/22/2006 3 5:00 
 Win Mike Van Arsdale Submission (Guillotine Choke) Raze MMA -Fight Night 4/29/2006 1 3:38 
 Win Fabio Leopoldo Submission (Rear Naked Choke) GFC-Team Gracie vs Team Hammer House 3/3/2006 3 3:25 
 Win Antonio Schembri TKO CR 14-Punishment 12/3/2005 3 3:33 
 Win Joe Doerksen Decision (Unaminous) UFC 54-Boiling Point 8/20/2005 3 5:00 
 Win Travis Lutter Submission (Guillotine Choke) UFC 52-Couture vs Liddell 2 4/16/2005 2 3:32 
 Win Landon Showalter Submission (Armbar) SF 8-Justice 1/8/2005 1 2:43 
 Win Mark Weir TKO (Doctor Stoppage) CR 9-No Mercy 11/27/2004 1 5:00 
 Loss David Terrell KO (Punches) UFC 49-Unfinished Business 8/21/2004 1 0:24 
 Win Tony Fryklund Decision ROTR 5-Rumble on the Rock 5 5/7/2004 3 5:00 
 Win Falaniko Vitale Submission (Strikes) UFC 45-Revolution 11/21/2003 3 4:23 
 Loss Falaniko Vitale TKO (Slam) UFC 43-Meltdown 6/6/2003 1 1:56 
 Win Phil Baroni Decision (Unanimous) UFC 41-Onslaught 2/28/2003 3 5:00 
 Win Ivan Salaverry Decision (Unanimous) UFC 39-The Warriors Return 9/27/2002 3 5:00 
 Loss Murilo Bustamante Submission (Guillotine Choke) UFC 37-High Impact 5/10/2002 3 1:33 
 Win Pat Miletich TKO (Strikes) UFC 36-Worlds Collide 3/22/2002 1 3:09 
 Win Phil Baroni Decision (Majority) UFC 34-High Voltage 11/2/2001 3 5:00 
 Win Ricardo Almeida DQ UFC 31-Locked & Loaded 5/4/2001 3 4:21 
 Win Yoji Anjo TKO (Strikes) UFC 29-Defense of the Belts 12/16/2000 1 2:58 
 Win Travis Fulton Submission IFC 6-Battle at Four Bears 9/20/1997 1 22:13 
 Win Mark Waters Submission (Strikes) IFC 6-Battle at Four Bears 9/20/1997 1 2:20 
 Win Karo Davtyan TKO (Strikes) WFF-World Fighting Federation 2/14/1997 1 8:34 
 
 This is Matt's fight record. 

The only common opponent is Murilo, whom Matt lost by sub, and who Hendo has beaten twice.  Hendo has fought Arona, Wandy, Lil Nog, Babalu, Vitor, Big Nog, Ninja, Goes.  Much tougher competition.  If you don't think so, then YOU HAVE LOST ALL CREDIBILITY.

Once again, wrestling and MMA are not the same.  Otherwise Gold Medalist Kevin Jackson beats Frank Shamrock.  Royce Alger beats Eugene Jackson and Enson Inoue. 

[G]

I've seen the records - both of them fought some decent fighters, but the facts are - Lindland is rated n1 and Hendo is n6.I like  both fighters , so it makes no difference to me  who fought who. Hendo is fighting in Pride - good for him. I wish Matt gets a decent deal with UFC or Pride, so people realize why he is sill n1 , eventhough fighting in less popular federations!I'm sure that probably 80% of the MMa fans don't know that hi is considerd the best 185 pounder!

[americanbulldog]

Yeah, MMAweakly is a credible source.  Heck, I don't want to continue arguing a mute (as in your silence) point,  (Man I am punny)  but the reason Matt isn't in the big show(s) is :

1.  When given the opportunity, and just about hand delivered the chance he has lost.  Busta, Terrell, Falaniko (even though Niko is my boy, the first loss was a fluke), Page. 

2.  When Zuffa issued the gag order on naming sponsors, Matt threw caution to the wind and made Rogan look like a jack ass and still thanked all of his non Zuffa approved sponsors.

3.  The guy is not attractive, and is terrible at mic skills.  (Hard to market a cantankerous bald red neck)

4.  The guy wins with a thoroughly tactical but unexciting method. 

He is a top middleweight that is severly overlooked.  This I do agree.  He, along with Randy and Hendo invented the dirty boxing that has become so popular in today's mma game.  Where we parted ways was when you suggested he could beat Chuck, and that his wrestling credentials would spill over to his MMA ability.  Great wrestler, great fighter, but doesn't match up well against Chuck.  (Why did Busta last against the Big Cat in MARs if wrestling was only needed?)  And the level of competition he has faced is nowhere near who Hendo or Randy has faced, even though he is the best wrestler of the three. 

[OKMike]

Yeah, MMAweakly is a credible source.  Heck, I don't want to continue arguing a mute (as in your silence) point,  (Man I am punny)  but the reason Matt isn't in the big show(s) is :

1.  When given the opportunity, and just about hand delivered the chance he has lost.  Busta, Terrell, Falaniko (even though Niko is my boy, the first loss was a fluke), Page. 

2.  When Zuffa issued the gag order on naming sponsors, Matt threw caution to the wind and made Rogan look like a jack ass and still thanked all of his non Zuffa approved sponsors.

3.  The guy is not attractive, and is terrible at mic skills.  (Hard to market a cantankerous bald red neck)

4.  The guy wins with a thoroughly tactical but unexciting method. 

He is a top middleweight that is severly overlooked.  This I do agree.  He, along with Randy and Hendo invented the dirty boxing that has become so popular in today's mma game.  Where we parted ways was when you suggested he could beat Chuck, and that his wrestling credentials would spill over to his MMA ability.  Great wrestler, great fighter, but doesn't match up well against Chuck.  (Why did Busta last against the Big Cat in MARs if wrestling was only needed?)  And the level of competition he has faced is nowhere near who Hendo or Randy has faced, even though he is the best wrestler of the three. 

^^^ I agree.  Hendo has fought the best of the best in Pride.  Lindland hasn't fought the same level competition.

[americanbulldog]

^^^Finally someone with a lick of sense regarding MMA.  G, you have lost all credibility.   

[G]

^^^Finally someone with a lick of sense regarding MMA.  G, you have lost all credibility.   

  yeah, yeah....you are all a buch a brainwashed dumbasses....it's just pointless arguing with you ...

[americanbulldog]

  yeah, yeah....you are all a buch a brainwashed dumbasses....it's just pointless arguing with you ...

Hey, I am all about intelligent discourse.  You haven't provided a shred of proof to base your opinions, other than MMAweeklys rating system.  If you look at their records and opponents, and see the strength of oppostion of Hendo versus Lindland, there really is no comparison.  All of Hendo's losses are to big name fighters out of a big name promotion.  Other than MLs fights in the UFC, he is fighting on lower tier promotions.  I agree with you that he is SEVERLY underrated.  But to claim he is the most dominant fighter in the MW class is an argument that isn't defensible.  (BTW, in the UFC his losses are to Busta (whom Hendo beat twice), Niko (go Niko versus Horn), and Dave "Soul Assasin" Terrel; a fine submission guy but so-so in MMA.  If I am brainwashed, provide a shred of evidence.  You were the one questioning credibility, I didn't start this.  MELTAWAY slowly....

[G]

Hey, I am all about intelligent discourse.  You haven't provided a shred of proof to base your opinions, other than MMAweeklys rating system.  If you look at their records and opponents, and see the strength of oppostion of Hendo versus Lindland, there really is no comparison.  All of Hendo's losses are to big name fighters out of a big name promotion.  Other than MLs fights in the UFC, he is fighting on lower tier promotions.  I agree with you that he is SEVERLY underrated.  But to claim he is the most dominant fighter in the MW class is an argument that isn't defensible.  (BTW, in the UFC his losses are to Busta (whom Hendo beat twice), Niko (go Niko versus Horn), and Dave "Soul Assasin" Terrel; a fine submission guy but so-so in MMA.  If I am brainwashed, provide a shred of evidence.  You were the one questioning credibility, I didn't start this.  MELTAWAY slowly....

 It 's hard to prove wthat i 'm trying to for the reason  that Lindland hasn't fought in neither of two most populat MMA federations for the past 3 years, where all the big names fight.It's a simple as that.

[americanbulldog]

^^^Okay, that is true.  But you shouldn't have made the assertion that he was the most dominant fighter.  I do think he deserves fights in Pride/Showtime/UFC.  His relationship with Dana will prolly prevent  him from fighting in the UFC.  He does have a good relationship with JD Penn, so I can see him in Showtime's event soon.  Flame off.   

[G]

I don't think i've ever seen another fighter who is as dominant as Lindland in each one of his fights(maybe Fedor).I still stand behind my words - what i said earlier about Lindland.The only proof you will get is if  he actually fight all of the guys mentioned earlier.
BTW - what is you point of view - are you speaking as a fan , or somebody who actually has something to do with MMA!

[americanbulldog]

I don't think i've ever seen another fighter who is as dominant as Lindland in each one of his fights(maybe Fedor).I still stand behind my words - what i said earlier about Lindland.The only proof you will get is if  he actually fight all of the guys mentioned earlier.
BTW - what is you point of view - are you speaking as a fan , or somebody who actually has something to do with MMA!

Both.  I cornered a couple guys in the old NHB days.  Original (and still) student of Relson Gracie. 

[*ChuteBoxe*]

Lindland might be fighting Fedor in Bodog, so there is no better opponent to gauge your skills against than the P4p best.  I give Woogie a snowballs chance in hell, but I give him props for having the stones to step in there.

[americanbulldog]

Lindland might be fighting Fedor in Bodog, so there is no better opponent to gauge your skills against than the P4p best.  I give Woogie a snowballs chance in hell, but I give him props for having the stones to step in there.

Gotta love the "Something about Mary" reference.  If Lindland does do it, he has major balls.