Author Topic: a though about "calories" and "the laws of thermodynamics" and fundamentalism  (Read 1801 times)

candidizzle

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"calories in vs calories out"

you want to put on muscle, you need to have MORE calories than you burn

you want to lose fat, you need to have LESS calories than you burn



pretty standard "facts", right?

well, in my opinion... thinking about this...

these should not be what your thinking about

what you shoudl think about , when looking to achieve a physique goal is "protein accrual", and "adipose reduction"

not simply total calories

because, you can have surplus of CALORIES, but at the end of the day have a net LOSS of proteins. what does that mean? it means you have less muscle !

AND, you could potentially have a caloric deficit, but still, at the end of the day, have a net GAIN in adipose tissue. (this one is tricky and you kinda have to TRY to make it happen, but trust me it can happen with a certain set up)




so, if you want to gain muscle...what you worry about is not "calories in vs calories out", what you worry about is "protein synthesis vs protein breakdown"..and making sure protein synthesis ALWAYS exceeds protein breakdown. regardless of caloric intake.

AND, if you want to lose fat, what you worry about is not "calories in vs caories out", but " amount of lipolysis vs lipogensis" and making sure total lipolysis ALWAYS exceeds lipogensis. regardless of caloric intake.


 :)

bodybuilder1234

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I just try and hit my macronutrient goals on a daily basis...

X grams of protein, x grams of carbs etc

candidizzle

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I just try and hit my macronutrient goals on a daily basis...

X grams of protein, x grams of carbs etc
cool

myself, i dont worry about daily totals or any of that... i couldtn tell you how many grams of what i eat per day ....   i eat meal to meal based on what my goal is with that meal, what my past activity level was, what my future activity level is going to be, and what ive already eaten during the day (as to assess glycogen levels, ect ect)....    ... so if i am sitting here on the compueter.. its been three hours since i last ate (i try to plan meal every three hours and eat enough to provide for three hours)... , my goal is to build muscle... my glycogen is pretty much full.. and im going to be sedentray for the next three hours.. ill eat like 10 ounces of lean meat, about 50 grams low gL carbs (beans or oatmeal mainly), take 3-5 caps fish oil for healthy fats and insulin sensitivity, and drink a bunch of water...   that will provide energy, insulin, and protein all to grow on, but not too much that any will contribute to adpose..

mental_masturbator

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cool

myself, i dont worry about daily totals or any of that... i couldtn tell you how many grams of what i eat per day ....   

Good luck with that approach...

candidizzle

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Good luck with that approach...
its works great !

you cant assume that one day you will need the same amount of food as another. your daily activities everyday are NEVER constant !

i eat every three hours. what i eat depends on what i did in my last three hours, what im going to do in my next three hours, and what my current physique goal is.     daily totals dont mean anything to me.   eatign the correct things at the correct times does!

Tapeworm

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Agree.  Eating without regard to activity level is like taking a dump without making sure there's toilet paper.  Some things need to be considered before the activity commences.

No Patience

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yup!

who the hell ever came up with this total calories shit?? your body does not wait till the end of the day
to go "well i burned 2211kcal today but ingested 2300, well better gain some weight"

it is so much more technical than that....it is the calories ingested during small times of the day and how
much you are burning at that moment, not 9 hours later

and like dizzle said, it also comes down to the type of calories, not just calories....eat 2500 calories of carbs
only and see how much muscle is gained....you would just end up looking like squadfather

mental_masturbator

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and like dizzle said, it also comes down to the type of calories, not just calories....eat 2500 calories of carbs
only and see how much muscle is gained....you would just end up looking like squadfather

My point is that he stated that he didn't know how many grams of what he's eating let alone the number of calories.  Calories do matter.  Worrying about stuff that one can't really measure like "lipolysis vs lipogensis" and "protein synthesis vs protein breakdown" (at least without sophisticated equipment) is really kind of silly if one doesn't have a handle on the fundamentals of one's diet.

I beg to differ about the whole eating every 3-hours thing, but hey to each his own...

No Patience

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My point is that he stated that he didn't know how many grams of what he's eating let alone the number of calories.  Calories do matter.  Worrying about stuff that one can't really measure like "lipolysis vs lipogensis" and "protein synthesis vs protein breakdown" (at least without sophisticated equipment) is really kind of silly if one doesn't have a handle on the fundamentals of one's diet.

I beg to differ about the whole eating every 3-hours thing, but hey to each his own...

i do agree with you....depending on what you eat, in my opinion, determines how often....whey protein every 3 hours makes sense, but what sense does it make
to eat steak every 3 hours??

plus i am drug free, and work at a desk for 9 hours a day, why the fuck would i need to eat large amounts of calories??? a guy that works concrete is burning way more
calories than me, yet people have these "general rules" regardless of your energy expendeture

point being, know YOUR body, not Jay Cutlers

candidizzle

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My point is that he stated that he didn't know how many grams of what he's eating let alone the number of calories.  Calories do matter.  Worrying about stuff that one can't really measure like "lipolysis vs lipogensis" and "protein synthesis vs protein breakdown" (at least without sophisticated equipment) is really kind of silly if one doesn't have a handle on the fundamentals of one's diet.

I beg to differ about the whole eating every 3-hours thing, but hey to each his own...
  once you know your own body, and you know how your body reacts to certain foods in certain amounts, you can definiteloy know excactly whats going on in your body at any given moment, when im dieting, i KNOW when my body is burning fat,. because i know how my metabolism reacts and runs off certain foods, and i know how certain food effect me hormonally.  when my body is building muscle tissue, i KNOW it, becausee i know that ive eaten foods that when combined will = protein synthesis. i know how long each different kind of food takes t digest, and how long it will take my body to burn through or use up that food.     

you have got to figure out your own metabollism.

i eat meal to meal based on what i want to achieve, and what my activity level is going to be/and has been.

calories DO NOT matter, niether do daily totals... that is IF, AND ONLY IF, you know your metabolism, know some nutritional basics such as digestion rates and how foods effect hormones, and you know how to properly set up meals and what not.


one day i might lose body fat and eat 3500 calories and 250 grams of carbs.
while another day i might gain some body fat and grow some muscle, but i only ate 2500 calories and 100 grams carbs.

 :D

it depends on activity level, meal timing, and macro pairing (pro/carb, pro/fat)





eating every three hours keeps amino acids present in the blood stream at all times of the day, as well as allowing you to constantly feed your body without contributing to adipose.  you can only eat so much food at one time and have your body utilize it. the smaller the portions the less likely fat storeage is and the more likely you are to utilize all that food.

dustin

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New here but just wanted to add to that. I "cycle" a lot of the same meals so I know how many macro nutrients (even calories roughly) are in all the foods I eat. So I can mix and match proteins, carbs and fats and hit my macro requirements by eyeballing my food.

I hate when people are so adamant that you need to have exactly XXX amount of calories so you can ONLY LOSE FAT or ONLY GAIN MUSCLE... fuck that shit. Ever hear of morning cardio? I did so much of that shit, as well as evening cardio and I was still gaining a minute amount of muscle while losing fat. I was pretty shredded last summer too. Best condition that I've ever been in. AAS will also really help to keep a positive nitrogen balance as you had mentioned.

I "megadosed" BCAA's when I was getting them for free (was repping for a supplement company) but all I think that did was mess with my insulin sensitivity.. a basic diet, a little bit of cardio and half a brain is all that's necessary. But regretfully I became experimental with my diet, eating shit like McDonalds in a vain attempt to bulk up and just put on too much adipose. Now I feel "skinny fat". Bah. I like what you said in your first post, Candi.

mental_masturbator

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eating every three hours keeps amino acids present in the blood stream at all times of the day, as well as allowing you to constantly feed your body without contributing to adipose.  you can only eat so much food at one time and have your body utilize it. the smaller the portions the less likely fat storeage is and the more likely you are to utilize all that food.

You should read this (along with the other dieting articles there):
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/Articles/baseline1.html

candidizzle

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You should read this (along with the other dieting articles there):
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/Articles/baseline1.html
i just opened it and saw it was from lyle mcdonald. ive already read most of his stuff. "ud, ud2, rapidfat loss handbook..ect ect). thanks though  :)

bodybuilder1234

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i just opened it and saw it was from lyle mcdonald. ive already read most of his stuff. "ud, ud2, rapidfat loss handbook..ect ect). thanks though  :)

u seem to research alot candidizzle, is it like a 9-5 thing or do you just do it your spare time?

darksol

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I have never been a huge fan of counting calories.  If I want to put on muscle I just make sure I am getting some ( 20+ grams ) of protien every 2 -  3 hours.  The other day I was at Kroger and I picked up a new Protein bar.
Its made by MLO called Xtreme.  30 grams of Protein, 5 Grams of Creatine, 30 Grams of Sugar, and 8 Grams of fat if I am remembering correct.  They taste awesome ( probably the sugar ).  Normally they cost $1.89.  But you get them expired on Ebay for 50 cents or less each.  Still taste the same when expired.  I ate 4 bars / day plus other food and had some decent gains for the 2 weeks I was eating them.  If you get a chance try them out. 

candidizzle

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u seem to research alot candidizzle, is it like a 9-5 thing or do you just do it your spare time?
9-5 = spare time  ;D

dustin

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9-5 = spare time  ;D

Get a desk job like me, man. You can also have protein shakes and when no one's around, you can browse the net lol

They're pretty liberal at my job but I still use Portable Firefox and have a proxy add-on just in case I go to any site that are a bit fishy.

candidizzle

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how can i get a desk job ?

seriously

that would be ideal for me... sedentary, making money, no physical demands, and alowed eating whenever i need to.