Author Topic: Memo: Two al Qaeda leaders waterboarded 266 times  (Read 914 times)

OzmO

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Memo: Two al Qaeda leaders waterboarded 266 times
« on: April 20, 2009, 08:01:58 AM »

I guess it worked?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/20/cia.waterboarding/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- CIA interrogators used waterboarding at least 266 times on two top al Qaeda suspects, according to a Bush-era Justice Department memo released by the Obama administration.


Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, seen in a December sketch, was waterboarded 183 times in a month, a memo says.

The controversial technique that simulates drowning -- and which President Obama calls torture -- was used at least 83 times in August 2002 on suspected al Qaeda leader Abu Zubaydah, according to the memo.

Interrogators also waterboarded Khalid Sheikh Mohammed 183 times in March 2003. Mohammed is believed to be the mastermind behind the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the United States.

Obama released the memo Thursday, saying that "exceptional circumstances surround these memos and require their release."  Watch other tactics outlined in memos »

The memo, dated May 30, 2005, was from then-Deputy Assistant Attorney General Steven G. Bradbury to John Rizzo, who was acting general counsel for the CIA.

It paints a different picture from the one described by former CIA officer John Kiriakou. In a December 2007 interview with CNN, Kiriakou said Zubaydah had been waterboarded for "about 30 seconds, 35 seconds" and agreed to cooperate with interrogators the following day.

In an interview on "Fox News Sunday," Michael Hayden, who directed the CIA from 2006 to 2009, was asked about the number of times Mohammed was waterboarded.


Hayden denounced the release of the memos and did not comment on the number, saying it was his understanding that the frequency of waterboarding was among the operational details that had not been declassified.  Watch one expert say tactics 'worse than Abu Ghraib' »

The 2005 memo refers to a letter that had contained the numbers as well. Part of the reference to the letter was redacted in the released memo.

Waterboarding is among the interrogation tactics that Obama has prohibited through an executive order.

The CIA also has admitted waterboarding Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, the first person charged in the United States for the 2000 attack on the USS Cole in Yemen that killed 17 U.S. sailors.

Obama said last week he felt comfortable releasing the classified memos because the Bush administration acknowledged using some of the practices associated with the memos, and the interrogation techniques were widely reported and have since been banned.



"Withholding these memos would only serve to deny facts that have been in the public domain for some time," Obama said in a statement. "This could contribute to an inaccurate accounting of the past, and fuel erroneous and inflammatory assumptions about actions taken by the United States."

The president applauded the work of the U.S. intelligence community and said no one who "carried out their duties relying in good faith upon legal advice from the Department of Justice" would be prosecuted.

SAMSON123

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Re: Memo: Two al Qaeda leaders waterboarded 266 times
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2009, 09:06:47 AM »
and in the end all that was done was the torture of innocent Iraqi farmers, peasants, nomads and citizens... I gues the dumb american is too dumb to realize that even their idiotic president said their was no Al Qaeda in Iraq and Iraq had nothing to do with 911...

Carry on with your stupidity america...
C

240 is Back

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Re: Memo: Two al Qaeda leaders waterboarded 266 times
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2009, 09:10:20 AM »
too bad catching bin laden wasn't high on bush's priority list.

OzmO

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Re: Memo: Two al Qaeda leaders waterboarded 266 times
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2009, 09:11:02 AM »
and in the end all that was done was the torture of innocent Iraqi farmers, peasants, nomads and citizens... I gues the dumb american is too dumb to realize that even their idiotic president said their was no Al Qaeda in Iraq and Iraq had nothing to do with 911...

Carry on with your stupidity america...

As stupid as America is sometimes, they are not stupid enough to believe the moon landing was a hoax.  

OzmO

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Re: Memo: Two al Qaeda leaders waterboarded 266 times
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2009, 09:11:34 AM »
too bad catching bin laden wasn't high on bush's priority list.

It was up there.  just underneath invading Iraq

SAMSON123

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Re: Memo: Two al Qaeda leaders waterboarded 266 times
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2009, 09:23:53 AM »
As stupid as America is sometimes, they are not stupid enough to believe the moon landing was a hoax.  

No but they are stupid enough to believe it did happen...even without proof
Believe in CHANGE...yeah right
Believe there was WMD
Believe Osama is still alive and walking around with a dialysis machine in the mountains of Afghanistan
Believe in Al Qaeda (an american created entity)
Believe now is the time to buy stocks becasue the stock market will recover


C

OzmO

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Re: Memo: Two al Qaeda leaders waterboarded 266 times
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2009, 09:29:23 AM »
No but they are stupid enough to believe it did happen...even without proof
Believe in CHANGE...yeah right
Believe there was WMD
Believe Osama is still alive and walking around with a dialysis machine in the mountains of Afghanistan
Believe in Al Qaeda (an american created entity)
Believe now is the time to buy stocks becasue the stock market will recover

Yeah like your kind of proof?   ::)

Dan-O

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Re: Memo: Two al Qaeda leaders waterboarded 266 times
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2009, 09:30:51 AM »
No but they are stupid enough to believe it did happen...even without proof
Believe in CHANGE...yeah right
Believe there was WMD
Believe Osama is still alive and walking around with a dialysis machine in the mountains of Afghanistan
Believe in Al Qaeda (an american created entity)
Believe now is the time to buy stocks becasue the stock market will recover




Don't forget, believe the speed of radio waves in a vacuum is 156,000 mps.  Genius.  ::)

Hereford

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Re: Memo: Two al Qaeda leaders waterboarded 266 times
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2009, 09:35:46 AM »
Don't forget, believe the speed of radio waves in a vacuum is 156,000 mps.  Genius.  ::)

Maybe it is. Maybe the media and Americans have lied to you all this time. Maybe it's a right-wing conspiracy by the US against the poor dark people of the world...

Dos Equis

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Re: Memo: Two al Qaeda leaders waterboarded 266 times
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2009, 11:49:58 AM »
Despite Reports, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Was Not Waterboarded 183 Times
The number of times Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded was the focus of major media attention  -- and highly misleading.
By Joseph Abrams

FOXNews.com

Tuesday, April 28, 2009

The New York Times reported last week that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the alleged mastermind of the Sept. 11 terror attacks, was waterboarded 183 times in one month by CIA interrogators. The "183 times" was widely circulated by news outlets throughout the world.

It was shocking. And it was highly misleading. The number is a vast inflation, according to information from a U.S. official and the testimony of the terrorists themselves.

A U.S. official with knowledge of the interrogation program told FOX News that the much-cited figure represents the number of times water was poured onto Mohammed's face -- not the number of times the CIA applied the simulated-drowning technique on the terror suspect.  According to a 2007 Red Cross report, he was subjected a total of "five sessions of ill-treatment." 

"The water was poured 183 times -- there were 183 pours," the official explained, adding that "each pour was a matter of seconds."

The Times and dozens of other outlets wrote that the CIA also waterboarded senior Al Qaeda member Abu Zubaydah 83 times, but Zubayda himself, a close associate of Usama bin Laden, told the Red Cross he was waterboarded no more than 10 times.

The confusion stems from language in the Justice Department legal memos that President Obama released on April 16. They contain the numbers, but they fail to explain exactly what they represent.

The memos, spanning from 2002-2005, were a legal review by the Bush administration that approved the use of waterboarding and other "enhanced interrogation techniques." Obama banned the procedure on his second day in office, saying that waterboarding is torture.

Click here to see Memo 1 | Memo 2 | Memo 3 | Memo 4

The memos describe the controversial process: a detainee is strapped to a gurney with his head lowered and a cloth placed on his face. Interrogators pour water onto the cloth, which cuts off air flow to the mouth and nostrils, tripping his gag reflex, causing panic and giving him the sensation that he is drowning.

At that point the cloth would be removed, the gurney rotated upright and the detainee would be allowed to breathe. The technique could be repeated a few times during a waterboarding session; Zubaydah said it was generally used once or twice, but he said he was waterboarded three times during one session.

The Justice Department memos described the maximum allowed use of the waterboard on any detainee, based on tactical training given to U.S. troops to resist interrogations:

-- Five days of use in one month, with no more than two "sessions" in a day;
-- Up to six applications (something like a dunk) lasting more than 10 seconds but less than 40 seconds per session;
-- 12 minutes of total "water application" in a 24-hour period

Bloggers who read the memos last week noted that the CIA's math "doesn't add up" -- meaning that the 12 long pours allowed in a day couldn't add up to the 12 minutes mentioned in the memo, and they could barely even guess how the detainees could have been waterboarded an astounding 286 times in one month.

The memos did not note that the sessions would be made up of a number of short pours -- the ones the U.S. official said lasted "a matter of seconds" -- and that created the huge numbers quoted by the New York Times: 183 on Mohamed, 83 on Zubaydah.

Pours, not waterboards.

A close look at a Red Cross report on the interrogations makes the numbers even clearer.

As the Red Cross noted: "The suffocation procedure was applied [to Abu Zubaydah] during five sessions of ill-treatment ... in 2002. During each session, apart from one, the suffocation technique was applied once or twice; on one occasion it was applied three times."

The total number of applications: between eight and 10 -- not the 83 mentioned in the Times.

Mohammed similarly told the Red Cross that "I was also subjected to 'water-boarding' on five occasions, all of which occurred during the first month." Those were his five "sessions"; the precise number of applications is not known but is a fraction of the 183 figure.

All of those individual pours were scrupulously counted by the CIA, according to the memos, to abide by the procedures set up for the waterboardings.

"t is important that every application of the waterboard be thoroughly documented: how long each application (and the entire procedure) lasted, how much water was used in the process," read a memo from May 10, 2005.

Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, the only other detainee known to be waterboarded, was not discussed in the memos.

The Times wrote that until the release of the memos, "the precise number" of 286 total waterboardings was not known.

And the precise number of waterboarding sessions is still not known. What is known is that Mohammed was not waterboarded 183 times.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/28/despite-reports-khalid-sheikh-mohammed-waterboarded-times/