It's finally here.... Obama's push for health care

[240 is Back]

Make your prediction now - will this thing pass or not?  not 'should it' - but WILL IT PASS?


Obama to relaunch health legislation

In a crucial week of high wire politics, Barack Obama is seeking to transform his top priority health care plan, now a liability for his presidency, into a trump card to outwit Republicans.

But ahead of the president's bipartisan health "summit" on Thursday, Republicans also think they may have a winning hand, after building their resurgence on blanket opposition to the plan and Obama's wider agenda.

The White House said it would release details of the plan on its website Monday.

Thursday's live, televised meeting at Blair House, across the street from the White House, may represent Obama's last chance to pass the plan, which has ground to a halt in Congress with painful consequences for his political authority.

The talks may also dictate battle lines for mid-term congressional elections in November, and have deep implications for Obama's slowed presidency.

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/obama-plans-relaunch-health-reform-legislation/

[tonymctones]

to early to say, not knowing what the plan entails...I would like to say that obama would pull back and go center on this but who are we joking he hasnt done much of anything of real importance that wasnt leftist.

I say if the plan is a small bill that doenst include alot of govt spending and a public option than ya it has a good chance of passing

Now you answer a question 240, what are they chances of obamas plan being what I just described?

[240 is Back]

I dunno... I think he'd rather pass a 20% bill and claim the win... than push thru a 70% bill that is likely to fail.

And like I have from the beginner, i have to say obama is very often able to get the job done.  he won the president's job over the GOP and the Clintons.  he is still 51 and 52% on gallup.  Americans still like him, not as much, but the majority still support him. 


I would like nothing more than capping what the companies can charge.  period. 

anyway, if I had to bet $5, I think he'll get something passed.

[tonymctones]

I dunno... I think he'd rather pass a 20% bill and claim the win... than push thru a 70% bill that is likely to fail.

And like I have from the beginner, i have to say obama is very often able to get the job done.  he won the president's job over the GOP and the Clintons.  he is still 51 and 52% on gallup.  Americans still like him, not as much, but the majority still support him. 


I would like nothing more than capping what the companies can charge.  period. 

anyway, if I had to bet $5, I think he'll get something passed.

I think he would rather get 20% passed as well but that doesnt mean he will try for 20%...

51% in an approval poll doesnt mean he would win another election 240...

what reasoning would you give for capping what the companies can charge?

[240 is Back]

what reasoning?  Cause in 10 years, most of us here won't be able to afford it - if the rates increase like they have in the last 10 years.

And because they are all enjoying record profits.

it's one thing to enjoy profits - quite another when their profit incentive is inversely related to american health.  The more they charge, they more they earn - and the more Americans die prematurely cause they cannot afford coverage.

I'm not anti-capitalism... but these are life/death decisions... and they're being made by firms that are profit centers.   It's like if all the drug companies decided tomorrow to slash 90% of cancer drug production... but to increase the price of the drugs 1000 times.   A lot of people would die, and they'd make awesome profits.  People would be screaming for the govt to initiate some sort of cost controls.

that is all i want... some limit on how much they can raise the price in the next decade.  espectially as they make record profits.

[tonymctones]

what reasoning?  Cause in 10 years, most of us here won't be able to afford it - if the rates increase like they have in the last 10 years.

And because they are all enjoying record profits.

it's one thing to enjoy profits - quite another when their profit incentive is inversely related to american health.  The more they charge, they more they earn - and the more Americans die prematurely cause they cannot afford coverage.

I'm not anti-capitalism... but these are life/death decisions... and they're being made by firms that are profit centers.   It's like if all the drug companies decided tomorrow to slash 90% of cancer drug production... but to increase the price of the drugs 1000 times.   A lot of people would die, and they'd make awesome profits.  People would be screaming for the govt to initiate some sort of cost controls.

that is all i want... some limit on how much they can raise the price in the next decade.  espectially as they make record profits.

There are ways to do this without implementing profit/price caps...youre reasoning could be applied to any string of other industries so would you be ok with putting caps on their prices as well?

[240 is Back]

most industries dont cost ppl their health/lives when they raise prices.

[gcb]

There are ways to do this without implementing profit/price caps...youre reasoning could be applied to any string of other industries so would you be ok with putting caps on their prices as well?

the other way to do it would be to encourage competition - that would effectively bring the price down - but at the moment it sounds like the insurance companies are colluding, which is actually illegal isn't it? (if it can proved - which is very difficult)

[Soul Crusher]

most industries dont cost ppl their health/lives when they raise prices.

1.  Stop calling yourself a Libertarian.  You are a lib who likes guns and thats it if you want to the gov to cap prices.

2.  Do you even know how insurance works?  I know you claim to have an MBA, but I seriously question that some of your remarks on this topic.  

3.  Do you know why insurance premiums have increased so greatly?  

4.  Do you even realize the massive barriers to new companies entering the marketplace to put pressure downward on costs?

5.  Do you realize that the government already has MASSIVE regulations on carriers as to what they must cover which in itself acts as a driver of premiums upwards?  


Serious 240 - I dont know if you are intentionally playing dumb, but if you think the Fairy God government is going to come and magically help things out with price caps, than you are gone and hopeless.  Just look up the history of govertnment capping anything and what happens.  

Please go buy this book and wake the hell up.  

      

[Soul Crusher]

the other way to do it would be to encourage competition - that would effectively bring the price down - but at the moment it sounds like the insurance companies are colluding, which is actually illegal isn't it? (if it can proved - which is very difficult)

No its not illegal!

The government has granted these companies a monopoly and already regulates the shit out of them, mostly on the state level.  The government, just like the rising cost of tuition in colleges, is the main cause of prices rising faster than inflation.

 

[gcb]

No its not illegal!

The government has granted these companies a monopoly and already regulates the shit out of them, mostly on the state level.  The government, just like the rising cost of tuition in colleges, is the main cause of prices rising faster than inflation.

 

Well it's illegal in other industries - I don't see why health care should be the exception.

[Soul Crusher]

Well it's illegal in other industries - I don't see why health care should be the exception.

I agree 1000%.  Its ridiculous.   

[tonymctones]

most industries dont cost ppl their health/lives when they raise prices.

LOL call me a synic but I have a hard time believing you wouldnt shout for this to be done in another industry if it had a negative impact on your life... its not simply about health 240 you would do the same thing to oil companies as well to ppl making over a certain amount of money 

[Soul Crusher]

The gullibility of anyone thinking the govt can cap prices, etc, is pathetic. 

[Kazan]

what reasoning?  Cause in 10 years, most of us here won't be able to afford it - if the rates increase like they have in the last 10 years.

And because they are all enjoying record profits.

it's one thing to enjoy profits - quite another when their profit incentive is inversely related to american health.  The more they charge, they more they earn - and the more Americans die prematurely cause they cannot afford coverage.

I'm not anti-capitalism... but these are life/death decisions... and they're being made by firms that are profit centers.   It's like if all the drug companies decided tomorrow to slash 90% of cancer drug production... but to increase the price of the drugs 1000 times.   A lot of people would die, and they'd make awesome profits.  People would be screaming for the govt to initiate some sort of cost controls.

that is all i want... some limit on how much they can raise the price in the next decade.  espectially as they make record profits.

Dude you are blinded by one thing and that is this "record profit", that is all you see, you can't look past it to see the man behind the curtain. This is what really confuses me, what has the federal government that instills some much trust from you? Run the deficite so high it can never be paid off? Created so many rules and regs that it has run manufacturing out of the US? Screwed up the healtcare system? When it comes right down to it all the government does is take from you in the form of taxes, freedoms ....., yet you still think they are the answer.

[Soul Crusher]

Dude you are blinded by one thing and that is this "record profit", that is all you see, you can't look past it to see the man behind the curtain. This is what really confuses me, what has the federal government that instills some much trust from you? Run the deficite so high it can never be paid off? Created so many rules and regs that it has run manufacturing out of the US? Screwed up the healtcare system? When it comes right down to it all the government does is take from you in the form of taxes, freedoms ....., yet you still think they are the answer.

Not to mention the fact that the same govt he thinks committed 9/11 he some how trusts has his best interests in health care. 

Sounds like a libertarian to me.      

[Kazan]

Not to mention the fact that the same govt he thinks committed 9/11 he some how trusts has his best interests in health care. 

Sounds like a libertarian to me.      

Sound bi-polar to me, sorry 240

[Soul Crusher]

Sound bi-polar to me, sorry 240

240 believes in the Fairy God Government who is going to wave a wand and make health care cheaper.

Too bad for 240 - he skipped Econ 101 in MBA School and does not realize that the government via mandates, the tax code, etc is the main driver of costs and impediment to true competition.   

[BM OUT]

I love it when 240 says "Obama is still popular" who cares?The health care bill is NOT POPLULAR!!!The vast majority DONT WANT IT!!!They will try to jam it through with reconcilliation,it will pass,the dems will then lose the house and senate,Obama will be out in 3 years and the republicans will overturn it.

[Kazan]

240 believes in the Fairy God Government who is going to wave a wand and make health care cheaper.

Too bad for 240 - he skipped Econ 101 in MBA School and does not realize that the government via mandates, the tax code, etc is the main driver of costs and impediment to true competition.   

There is a reason the constitution was crafted the way it is, keep the Federal Government limited or guess what? You end up with this cluster fuck. Guess the founders knew what they were doing

[BM OUT]

By the way,according to Rassmusen Obama is around 45% approval.

[shootfighter1]

Well, he release the "compromise" today.  It is not a compromise at all.  He merged the senate & house bills and added a regulatory commission on healthy care premium rates.

I wanted to see a significantly scaled down plan that included necessary items, ways to cut costs, increasing competition nationally & removing monoploy protections on insurance company, some kind of meaningful malpractice reform, etc.  Looks like he is pushing full steam ahead with the comprehensive 2000+ page bill that the majority of us don't want.  Pushing federal subsidies for low middle class earners and a huge expansion of medicaid and government positions. 

Thursday should be interesting.