Author Topic: How Reagan ruined conservatism  (Read 2217 times)

Benny B

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How Reagan ruined conservatism
« on: March 02, 2010, 08:31:06 AM »

Gideon Rachman

Battling my way through Sarah Palin’s book, Going Rogue, last weekend, I began to wonder how American conservatism had come to this. Ms Palin’s book is smug, lightweight, nationalistic, entirely free of original ideas. How has this woman become the darling of the American right? How has she become so popular that some bookmakers make her the favourite to win the Republican party nomination in 2012?

And then I realised – the rot set in with Ronald Reagan.

This might seem an odd conclusion, since President Reagan is a conservative hero who won two presidential elections. But the ideas that are now known as “Reaganism” are, in fact, profoundly subversive of some of the most important conservative values. Traditional conservatives disdain populism and respect knowledge. They believe in balancing the government’s books. And they are pragmatists who are suspicious of ideology. Reagan debased all these ideas – and modern American conservatism is still suffering the consequences.

    The most damaging idea propagated by the Reagan myth is the cult of the idiot-savant (the wise fool). You can see it in the very first line of Dinesh D’Souza’s admiring biography of Reagan, which proclaims: “Sometimes it really helps to be a dummy.” Mr D’Souza recounts numerous stories in which intellectuals – even conservative intellectuals – disdained Reagan. They scorned his tendency to spend cabinet meetings sorting jelly beans into different colours, and his taste for flaky anecdotes. But, Mr D’Souza concludes, the “dummy” was right and the pointy-heads were wrong.

A dangerous chain of reasoning flows from this popular version of history. Reagan was apparently stupid and often startlingly ignorant – but he was vindicated by history. Therefore, goes the theory, ignorance and stupidity are good signs. They show that a politician is in tune with the deeper wisdom of the people. Once you start thinking like that, it is but a short step to Sarah Palin.


If it is ignorance you are after, then Ms Palin is definitely your woman. Game Change, a recent book on the 2008 presidential election campaign, recounts how desperate advisers to the McCain-Palin campaign decided that they had to give her a crash-course in modern history, before the vice-presidential debate with Joe Biden.

“They sat Palin down at a table in the suite, spread out a map of the world, and proceeded to give her a potted history of foreign policy. They started with the Spanish civil war, then moved on to world war one, world war two, the cold war. When the teachers suggested breaking for lunch or dinner, the student resisted. ‘No, no, no, let’s keep going,’ Ms Palin said. ‘This is awesome’.”

The history of the 20th century? I suppose it is pretty awesome.

In fact, Ms Palin is much, much less qualified to be president than Reagan ever was. She is Ronald Reagan lite – and Reagan was pretty lite to begin with. But he had, at least, been governor of California, not Alaska, and had read widely.

The damage Reaganism did to conservatism extends well beyond the Palin effect. The late president also became associated with a couple of bad ideas that helped make the administration of George W. Bush such a disaster. The first was fiscal incontinence; the second is the view that the key to a successful foreign policy is a rigid distinction between good and evil, and a strong military.

The Republican party – with Ms Palin to the fore – is currently decrying the huge deficits being run by the Obama administration. But this is a recent conversion. Ever since the Reagan years, the Republicans have been the party of deficit spending.

Conservatives once believed both in lower taxes and in balancing the budget. Under Reagan, they simply became the party of tax cuts, without any commitment to fiscal responsibility. Dick Cheney, George W. Bush’s vice-president, admitted as much when he told a cabinet colleague: “Reagan proved deficits don’t matter.” A mystical belief took hold that if you just cut taxes, the economy would grow fast enough to cover the shortfall – or government would shrink, almost by magic. Somehow it would all come right. This drift in Republican thinking was actually profoundly anti-conservative – because it elevated ideology (cut taxes at any cost) over a pragmatic commitment to good governance.

It is the same with foreign policy. Reagan’s insistence that the Soviet Union was an “evil empire” caused many liberals to wince – but was basically accurate. However, when George W. Bush attempted to emulate Reagan’s “moral clarity”, he came up with the “Axis of Evil” – a silly concept that led America into a costly and unnecessary war in Iraq. President Bush also missed the fact that while Reagan had built up the US military, he had avoided any big wars. Invading Grenada under Reagan was one thing; invading Iraq under Mr Bush turned out to be quite another.

The real Reagan was, in fact, rather more pragmatic than the “Reagan myth” that sprang up after he left office. Real Reagan was willing to raise taxes in extremis, and became a firm believer in arms-reduction talks. Today’s American conservatives, who claim the mantle of Reagan, would regard these ideas as treachery and weakness. Reagan was ultimately a successful president. But he left behind a poisonous legacy for the conservative movement.
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Re: How Reagan ruined conservatism
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2010, 08:34:15 AM »
Yes,winning the cold war BY HIMSELF cutting the tax rate from 70% to 28% and saving an economy MUCH worse then the one Obama got wasnt very conservative.Another jackass article by an idiot who doesnt know his asshole from his mouth.Deficits rise when your in an arms race.Compare his deficits in 8 years to the one Obama produced in one year.

Benny B

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Re: How Reagan ruined conservatism
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2010, 09:16:32 AM »
Reagan-deficit BUMP!  :P
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Re: How Reagan ruined conservatism
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2010, 09:35:13 AM »
Reagan-deficit BUMP!  :P

Yes ,when your defeating the Soviet Union in an arms race,it will create a deficit.Lets see,no deficit and the Soviet Union,or a moderate deficit and no Soviet threat.I know you libs were actually rooting for the Soviets but most Americans were happy with the deficit and the defeat of communism.

Now,Obamas debt?A failed stimulus plan,a failed auto bailout,pay outs for unions.Yes,very comparable.

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Re: How Reagan ruined conservatism
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2010, 11:57:37 AM »

Gideon Rachman

Battling my way through Sarah Palin’s book, Going Rogue, last weekend, I began to wonder how American conservatism had come to this. Ms Palin’s book is smug, lightweight, nationalistic, entirely free of original ideas. How has this woman become the darling of the American right? How has she become so popular that some bookmakers make her the favourite to win the Republican party nomination in 2012?

And then I realised – the rot set in with Ronald Reagan.

This might seem an odd conclusion, since President Reagan is a conservative hero who won two presidential elections. But the ideas that are now known as “Reaganism” are, in fact, profoundly subversive of some of the most important conservative values. Traditional conservatives disdain populism and respect knowledge. They believe in balancing the government’s books. And they are pragmatists who are suspicious of ideology. Reagan debased all these ideas – and modern American conservatism is still suffering the consequences.

    The most damaging idea propagated by the Reagan myth is the cult of the idiot-savant (the wise fool). You can see it in the very first line of Dinesh D’Souza’s admiring biography of Reagan, which proclaims: “Sometimes it really helps to be a dummy.” Mr D’Souza recounts numerous stories in which intellectuals – even conservative intellectuals – disdained Reagan. They scorned his tendency to spend cabinet meetings sorting jelly beans into different colours, and his taste for flaky anecdotes. But, Mr D’Souza concludes, the “dummy” was right and the pointy-heads were wrong.

A dangerous chain of reasoning flows from this popular version of history. Reagan was apparently stupid and often startlingly ignorant – but he was vindicated by history. Therefore, goes the theory, ignorance and stupidity are good signs. They show that a politician is in tune with the deeper wisdom of the people. Once you start thinking like that, it is but a short step to Sarah Palin.


If it is ignorance you are after, then Ms Palin is definitely your woman. Game Change, a recent book on the 2008 presidential election campaign, recounts how desperate advisers to the McCain-Palin campaign decided that they had to give her a crash-course in modern history, before the vice-presidential debate with Joe Biden.

“They sat Palin down at a table in the suite, spread out a map of the world, and proceeded to give her a potted history of foreign policy. They started with the Spanish civil war, then moved on to world war one, world war two, the cold war. When the teachers suggested breaking for lunch or dinner, the student resisted. ‘No, no, no, let’s keep going,’ Ms Palin said. ‘This is awesome’.”

The history of the 20th century? I suppose it is pretty awesome.

In fact, Ms Palin is much, much less qualified to be president than Reagan ever was. She is Ronald Reagan lite – and Reagan was pretty lite to begin with. But he had, at least, been governor of California, not Alaska, and had read widely.

The damage Reaganism did to conservatism extends well beyond the Palin effect. The late president also became associated with a couple of bad ideas that helped make the administration of George W. Bush such a disaster. The first was fiscal incontinence; the second is the view that the key to a successful foreign policy is a rigid distinction between good and evil, and a strong military.

The Republican party – with Ms Palin to the fore – is currently decrying the huge deficits being run by the Obama administration. But this is a recent conversion. Ever since the Reagan years, the Republicans have been the party of deficit spending.

Conservatives once believed both in lower taxes and in balancing the budget. Under Reagan, they simply became the party of tax cuts, without any commitment to fiscal responsibility. Dick Cheney, George W. Bush’s vice-president, admitted as much when he told a cabinet colleague: “Reagan proved deficits don’t matter.” A mystical belief took hold that if you just cut taxes, the economy would grow fast enough to cover the shortfall – or government would shrink, almost by magic. Somehow it would all come right. This drift in Republican thinking was actually profoundly anti-conservative – because it elevated ideology (cut taxes at any cost) over a pragmatic commitment to good governance.

It is the same with foreign policy. Reagan’s insistence that the Soviet Union was an “evil empire” caused many liberals to wince – but was basically accurate. However, when George W. Bush attempted to emulate Reagan’s “moral clarity”, he came up with the “Axis of Evil” – a silly concept that led America into a costly and unnecessary war in Iraq. President Bush also missed the fact that while Reagan had built up the US military, he had avoided any big wars. Invading Grenada under Reagan was one thing; invading Iraq under Mr Bush turned out to be quite another.

The real Reagan was, in fact, rather more pragmatic than the “Reagan myth” that sprang up after he left office. Real Reagan was willing to raise taxes in extremis, and became a firm believer in arms-reduction talks. Today’s American conservatives, who claim the mantle of Reagan, would regard these ideas as treachery and weakness. Reagan was ultimately a successful president. But he left behind a poisonous legacy for the conservative movement.
Bennie... The definition of an "INTELLECTUAL" is simply that it is someone who sits around critiquing everyone but doesn't actually DO anything, provide anything, or make the world around them a better place. So called intellectuals who say Reagan was a fool are the same ones who pump up a guy like Obama, Norm Chomsky, and even Charles Manson as genius.
Reagan created the highest revenue producing governments this country has ever seen by CUTTING TAXES. Not to mention he ended the cold war. So please... to knock Reagan is like saying Obama could carry his piss bucket.

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Re: How Reagan ruined conservatism
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2010, 12:04:45 PM »
I'm sure if we had the modern day version of Barry Goldwater that Benny Buttface would have voted for him over Maobama.   ::)  ::)

What this ridiculous article neglects to mention is that Democrat congresses never cut spending and that it takes 2 to create a deficit. 

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Re: How Reagan ruined conservatism
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2010, 04:48:12 PM »
Yeah this is an idiotic article. If you cant engage in critical thinking and dont know how the world works, then it doesnt mean jack shit that you know certain facts about the Spanish Civil War or what not. To be honest, I dont remember anything about the Spanish Civil War, and I dont know much about what caused WW1. All I really know was that it was ignited with the assassination of a man named Franz Ferdinand, but I figure that is just the straw that broke the camel's back. Im sure there was a lot of gradual social and geo -political tension that was building for years that led up to that. However, I consider myself more fit for the presidency than either Barack Obama or the schmoe that wrote this article. Is it problematic if Sarah Palin needed some crash course on modern US history? I suppose. But it is way more problemattic that Barack Obama clearly doesnt understand how the world works. And Sarah Palin understands that more than he does. If you cant understand the difference between the deficit spending of Reagan and Obama, you are quite frankly a dumbass that does not engage in critical thinking.

One thing this guy is right about though is that there is too much populism in today's modern conservatism. But that is not because of Reagan. It is because of people like Pat Buchanan and Ross Perot.
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Re: How Reagan ruined conservatism
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2010, 05:36:00 PM »
Palin being an idiot isn't Reagan's fault.

Al Doggity

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Re: How Reagan ruined conservatism
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2010, 06:58:20 PM »
Yes,winning the cold war BY HIMSELF cutting the tax rate from 70% to 28% and saving an economy MUCH worse then the one Obama got wasnt very conservative.Another jackass article by an idiot who doesnt know his asshole from his mouth.Deficits rise when your in an arms race.Compare his deficits in 8 years to the one Obama produced in one year.

You are exactly what the author of that article is referring to.  ::)  Yes, Reagan did cut taxes at the beginning of his term, but he also raised taxes each subsequent year. Reagan was a popular President, a large part of that owing to being to the right place at the right time, and a lot of the Reagan myth trickles down to stupidity in a modern context.

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Re: How Reagan ruined conservatism
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2010, 07:05:15 PM »
You are exactly what the author of that article is referring to.  ::)  Yes, Reagan did cut taxes at the beginning of his term, but he also raised taxes each subsequent year. Reagan was a popular President, a large part of that owing to being to the right place at the right time, and a lot of the Reagan myth trickles down to stupidity in a modern context.

Give it up Al.  This is the same tired bs garbage liberal line that conservatives are dumb and libs are brilliant.  Its a lazy stupid argument that is so devoid of factual basis as to not even warrant a discussion. 

Reagans' writing showed how knowledgable he was on many issues and almost all historians agree with that not the garbage like this.

In fact, neither clinton, obama, carter, have even close to the self written pieces on issues that Reagan had.

And what you libs always neglect is that reagan had a dem congress to deal with.  You guys do the same thing with lauding clintons' alleged "surplus" yet always neglect that he did it with a GOP congress. 

Imagine another carter term or Mondale?  Yeah, that would have been pure brilliance and prosperity for the country.  ::)  ::)

Al Doggity

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Re: How Reagan ruined conservatism
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2010, 07:40:53 PM »
Give it up Al.  This is the same tired bs garbage liberal line that conservatives are dumb and libs are brilliant.  Its a lazy stupid argument that is so devoid of factual basis as to not even warrant a discussion. 

Reagans' writing showed how knowledgable he was on many issues and almost all historians agree with that not the garbage like this.

In fact, neither clinton, obama, carter, have even close to the self written pieces on issues that Reagan had.

And what you libs always neglect is that reagan had a dem congress to deal with.  You guys do the same thing with lauding clintons' alleged "surplus" yet always neglect that he did it with a GOP congress. 

Imagine another carter term or Mondale?  Yeah, that would have been pure brilliance and prosperity for the country.  ::)  ::)


 ::) Yes, it's a lazy and stupid argument... unless repubs are using it to demonize the "liberal elite" as effete and out of touch as opposed to the salt-of-the-earth common men that populate their party.  ::)

That's the one point of the article. The other- and even more important point- is that his myth is built on some pretty bad ideas.

No, libs don't always neglect to mention that Reagan had a dem congress.Repubs are just too busy using it as a false crutch. The truth of the matter is that Reagan was not interested in cutting spending and a dem congress didn't hamper him. And he rolled back the majority of his vaunted tax cut by the time he left office. And Bush 1 kept on doing the same. But it's funny  how you try to credit Clinton's republican congress with the successes of his administration, yet somehow Dems stood in Reagan's way. Nice talking out of both sides of your mouse.

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Re: How Reagan ruined conservatism
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2010, 07:54:40 PM »
::) Yes, it's a lazy and stupid argument... unless repubs are using it to demonize the "liberal elite" as effete and out of touch as opposed to the salt-of-the-earth common men that populate their party.  ::)

That's the one point of the article. The other- and even more important point- is that his myth is built on some pretty bad ideas.

No, libs don't always neglect to mention that Reagan had a dem congress.Repubs are just too busy using it as a false crutch. The truth of the matter is that Reagan was not interested in cutting spending and a dem congress didn't hamper him. And he rolled back the majority of his vaunted tax cut by the time he left office. And Bush 1 kept on doing the same. But it's funny  how you try to credit Clinton's republican congress with the successes of his administration, yet somehow Dems stood in Reagan's way. Nice talking out of both sides of your mouse.

No, its not as simple as putting everything good or bad on the president alone. 

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Re: How Reagan ruined conservatism
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2010, 09:04:57 PM »
Quote
No, libs don't always neglect to mention that Reagan had a dem congress.Repubs are just too busy using it as a false crutch. The truth of the matter is that Reagan was not interested in cutting spending and a dem congress didn't hamper him. And he rolled back the majority of his vaunted tax cut by the time he left office. And Bush 1 kept on doing the same. But it's funny  how you try to credit Clinton's republican congress with the successes of his administration, yet somehow Dems stood in Reagan's way. Nice talking out of both sides of your mouse.


Reagan was interested in cutting spending, but he knew he wasnt going to get it from Congress. He was wise enough to know that he would be waiting forever for tax cuts if he waited for spending cuts. In fact, the only real way to cut spending in the long run is to cut taxes. Im not sure where you are getting that Reagan rolled back his tax cuts. Other than that deal he made to raise the Pay roll tax, he did not raise taxes. Bush 1 raised taxes back up to 33%. Also, Reagan had much more of a mandate than CLinton did. That's why you can credit him with a Dem Congress and credit a Republicna COngress during CLinton. DO you not remember when Republicans shut down the government over the budget fight? That's why its not funny to to credit CLinton's Republican Congress and say that it was the Dems that got in the way of Reagan.
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Re: How Reagan ruined conservatism
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2010, 01:11:38 AM »
  I don't know why so many fellow Conservatives idolize Reagan. He was one of the biggest corporatists in political history. Remember this?

 


  The once-freat GOP hasn't been the same ever since. Big government in bed with big business. There's a word for that, isn't there?

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Re: How Reagan ruined conservatism
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2010, 05:34:24 AM »
Look, after the fiasco that was Nixon/Ford/Carter - the nation needed some positive leadership and projection of strength.  Reagan provided that and the economy turned around.

Prior to Regan, the last good GOP president who actually was good was Ike, and that was decades before.  The GOP never controlled the congress either. 

As far as the corporate - thing goes - they all are, were, and will be.   

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Re: How Reagan ruined conservatism
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2010, 06:18:57 AM »
::) Yes, it's a lazy and stupid argument... unless repubs are using it to demonize the "liberal elite" as effete and out of touch as opposed to the salt-of-the-earth common men that populate their party.  ::)

That's the one point of the article. The other- and even more important point- is that his myth is built on some pretty bad ideas.

No, libs don't always neglect to mention that Reagan had a dem congress.Repubs are just too busy using it as a false crutch. The truth of the matter is that Reagan was not interested in cutting spending and a dem congress didn't hamper him. And he rolled back the majority of his vaunted tax cut by the time he left office. And Bush 1 kept on doing the same. But it's funny  how you try to credit Clinton's republican congress with the successes of his administration, yet somehow Dems stood in Reagan's way. Nice talking out of both sides of your mouse.

He came into office,the top marginal tax rate was 70% ehen he left it was 28% please show me how he rolled back his tax cuts.More revisionist history from the left.I guess thats what happens when you get a lib failure as president like Obama,you need to try to tear down great presidents to make his incredible failure look better.