Author Topic: Kagan Said She Was `Not Sympathetic' Toward D.C. Gun-Rights Claim  (Read 1056 times)

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Kagan Said She Was `Not Sympathetic' Toward Gun-Rights Claim
By Greg Stohr and Kristin Jensen - May 13, 2010

www.Bloomberg.com
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Elena Kagan said as a U.S. Supreme Court law clerk in 1987 that she was “not sympathetic” toward a man who contended that his constitutional rights were violated when he was convicted for carrying an unlicensed pistol.

Kagan, whom President Barack Obama nominated to the high court this week, made the comment to Justice Thurgood Marshall, urging him in a one-paragraph memo to vote against hearing the District of Columbia man’s appeal.

The man’s “sole contention is that the District of Columbia’s firearms statutes violate his constitutional right to ‘keep and bear arms,’” Kagan wrote. “I’m not sympathetic.”

Kagan, currently the U.S. solicitor general, has made few public remarks about the Constitution’s Second Amendment. The Supreme Court in 2008 ruled, in a case that overturned the District of Columbia’s handgun ban, that the Constitution protects individual gun rights.

As a nominee to be solicitor general last year, Kagan told lawmakers that she accepted that 5-4 decision in District of Columbia v. Heller as a precedent of the court.

“There is no question, after Heller, that the Second Amendment guarantees individuals the right to keep and bear arms and that this right, like others in the Constitution, provides strong although not unlimited protection against governmental regulation,” she said.

Review Denied

The Heller decision left room for states to require registration of weapons. The majority also said the ruling didn’t cast doubt on laws barring handgun possession by convicted felons and the mentally ill, or restrictions on bringing guns into schools or government buildings.

The lower court ruling in the 1987 case, issued by the District of Columbia’s highest court, said the Second Amendment protects only the rights of states to raise militias, and not individual gun rights. The ruling upheld Lee Sandidge’s conviction for carrying a pistol without a license, possession of an unregistered firearm and unlawful possession of ammunition.

The high court refused to hear the case, known as Sandidge v. United States. The memo to Marshall, found in his papers at the Library of Congress, includes a handwritten “D,” indicating that he was among those who voted to deny review.

White House spokesman Ben LaBolt said the position taken in the memo to Marshall reflected the prevailing view of the law at the time.

Reflecting Marshall

During her confirmation hearing to be solicitor general, the federal government’s top Supreme Court advocate, Kagan said she was trying to reflect Marshall’s views when she evaluated so-called petitions for certiorari, or cert petitions. She called herself a “27-year-old pipsqueak” working for a “90- year-old giant in the law.”

“He was asking us, in the context in those cert petitions, to channel him and to think about what cases he would want the court to decide,” Kagan said. “And in that context, I think all of us were right to say, ‘Here are the cases which the court is likely to do good things with from your perspective, and here are the ones where they’re not.’”

Marshall was a civil rights icon before becoming the first black justice. He led the legal fight to dismantle the “separate but equal” regime in public education, arguing the landmark Brown v. Board of Education case.

As a justice, he opposed the death penalty and backed abortion rights and affirmative action. Kagan, now 50, clerked for Marshall during the court’s 1987-88 term and has described him as one of her heroes.

Clues to Kagan

The memos provide clues to Kagan’s potential approach as a justice. Much like Marshall, Kagan might find herself playing defense, at least in her first few years, working strategically to thwart the agenda of a more conservative majority.

Kagan on numerous occasions urged the justice to vote for so-called defensive denials, rejecting appeals from criminal suspects and defendants to prevent his more conservative colleagues from giving more power to police and prosecutors.

She urged rejection of an appeal from an Illinois man whose burglary conviction hinged on evidence discovered when he was stopped, ordered to lie down and searched by police. The search took place even though police lacked the “probable cause” required to make an arrest, Kagan said.

Kagan said she thought the court, if it heard the case, would uphold the conviction. That “would be an awful and perhaps quite consequential holding,” she wrote.

In recent years, Chief Justice John Roberts and four colleagues have joined forces in 5-4 decisions to strike down campaign finance regulations and limit shareholder lawsuits, as well as to protect gun owners’ rights.

B-Minus in Torts

The Marshall papers also include Kagan’s Harvard Law School transcript and glowing letters of recommendation to the justice from her professors. “She is soft-spoken and delightful to be with, but razor-sharp and iron-hard in intellectual give and take,” wrote one, Abram Chayes.

One professor referenced her transcript, which showed Kagan got off to a slow start as a law student. She received a B in criminal law and a B-minus in torts in the fall of her first year, later receiving predominantly A’s in classes including constitutional law.

“Whatever was in her way on those fall term exams, it wasn’t affecting her class performance even during the fall, and evidently was gone by exam time in May,” wrote Frank Michelman, who taught her in a spring property law course and said he had contact with his students starting in September.

To contact the reporters on this story: Greg Stohr in Washington at gstohr@bloomberg.net; Kristin Jensen in Washington at kjensen@bloomberg.net.


________________________ ________________________ _____

Oh great, just what we need. 

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Re: Kagan Said She Was `Not Sympathetic' Toward D.C. Gun-Rights Claim
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2010, 07:54:42 AM »
I'm not sympathetic to the dude either.  He carried a gun in a place where he was not licensed to do so. 

I've been carrying a glock on my hip for what, 12 years now.  I will not travel without it.  I talk second amendment rights with anyone who will listen.  It is our most important right.


however, this guy carrying a gun illegally where the law doesn't allow it - that makes law-abiding gun owners like myself look bad.  There are some places you can't carry.  Accept it.  Does anyone here want people to be allowed to carry guns in court houses or police stations? 

I'm sure there are lots of reasons to shit on Kagan, and I'm sure we'll hear them.  In this case, this dude broke the law and packed heat where the law didn't allow it.  No need to pity him.

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Re: Kagan Said She Was `Not Sympathetic' Toward D.C. Gun-Rights Claim
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2010, 07:56:17 AM »
I'm not sympathetic to the dude either.  He carried a gun in a place where he was not licensed to do so. 

I've been carrying a glock on my hip for what, 12 years now.  I will not travel without it.  I talk second amendment rights with anyone who will listen.  It is our most important right.


however, this guy carrying a gun illegally where the law doesn't allow it - that makes law-abiding gun owners like myself look bad.  There are some places you can't carry.  Accept it.  Does anyone here want people to be allowed to carry guns in court houses or police stations? 

I'm sure there are lots of reasons to shit on Kagan, and I'm sure we'll hear them.  In this case, this dude broke the law and packed heat where the law didn't allow it.  No need to pity him.

But if it were up to Obama and Kagen you wouldnt be allowed to carry a gun anywhere.

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Re: Kagan Said She Was `Not Sympathetic' Toward D.C. Gun-Rights Claim
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2010, 07:58:08 AM »
I'm not sympathetic to the dude either.  He carried a gun in a place where he was not licensed to do so. 

I've been carrying a glock on my hip for what, 12 years now.  I will not travel without it.  I talk second amendment rights with anyone who will listen.  It is our most important right.


however, this guy carrying a gun illegally where the law doesn't allow it - that makes law-abiding gun owners like myself look bad.  There are some places you can't carry.  Accept it.  Does anyone here want people to be allowed to carry guns in court houses or police stations? 

I'm sure there are lots of reasons to shit on Kagan, and I'm sure we'll hear them.  In this case, this dude broke the law and packed heat where the law didn't allow it.  No need to pity him.


The DC law did not allow anyone to owna  firearm period. 

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Re: Kagan Said She Was `Not Sympathetic' Toward D.C. Gun-Rights Claim
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2010, 08:00:49 AM »
well, it's not up to them!  hahahahahahaha

they'd lose every single seat if they went after guns.  Obama has the balls to do a lot of lib shit, but he hasn't touched guns.  I don't give a shit what they 'want'.  They won't push it, won't get it.


I don't think any responsible people will say "anyone should be allowed to carry, anywhere!"  Because can you imagine what happens in courtroom when the defendant's family all carries in two glocks per man, waiting to hear the verdict if their loved one is going away for life.  That poor baliff would be highly outgunned.  Some places, you just shouldn't allow guns.  


If you disagree with where you can carry, run for office and change it.

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Re: Kagan Said She Was `Not Sympathetic' Toward D.C. Gun-Rights Claim
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2010, 08:02:43 AM »
"The DC law did not allow anyone to owna  firearm period.  "

Well, then those idiots living there need to run a candidate that will change that law.  If the people who live there will continually elect people who will ban guns, maybe it's what they want?

Whatever... there will be pockets of idiots all over the country... If FL did that, I'd move lol...

You can't break the law, even if you disagree with it.  Vote to change it, run to change it, live with it, or move.  "Secretly carrying a gun because you disagree with the law" - fuck that.  That guy is a criminal, just like any gangbanger.  Lock him up.  Sorry. 

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Re: Kagan Said She Was `Not Sympathetic' Toward D.C. Gun-Rights Claim
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2010, 08:44:48 AM »
"The DC law did not allow anyone to owna  firearm period.  "

Well, then those idiots living there need to run a candidate that will change that law.  If the people who live there will continually elect people who will ban guns, maybe it's what they want?

Whatever... there will be pockets of idiots all over the country... If FL did that, I'd move lol...

You can't break the law, even if you disagree with it.  Vote to change it, run to change it, live with it, or move.  "Secretly carrying a gun because you disagree with the law" - fuck that.  That guy is a criminal, just like any gangbanger.  Lock him up.  Sorry. 

The ban was overturned by the courts.Thankfully we have conservatives on the court who want to protect gun laws.You know,those that think exactly the opposite of Obama Kagen and Sotomayor.

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Re: Kagan Said She Was `Not Sympathetic' Toward D.C. Gun-Rights Claim
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2010, 08:46:33 AM »
I'm telling you, I noticed a change in 240 from when Obama went to Ft. Meyers with Julio.  I'm still not convinced 240 is not Julio too. 

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Re: Kagan Said She Was `Not Sympathetic' Toward D.C. Gun-Rights Claim
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2010, 09:21:23 AM »
240 bringing the sense to this thread.  Seriously guys what's with all this bullsh*t doomsday talk?  It makes you look like fools without the ability to see outside black and white issues.  It really devalues your opinions on other topics as well because people see it and think gosh he has no perspective on an issue like this other than negativity. 
Abandon every hope...

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Re: Kagan Said She Was `Not Sympathetic' Toward D.C. Gun-Rights Claim
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2010, 09:28:48 AM »
KC - show me where and when this hag has argued for more freedom of speech, more freedom of the 2nd amendment, more economic rights, more liberty. 

You cant because she is like 99% of other leftists.  Other than abortion 24/7, most of you dont give a rats ass about anything else. 

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Re: Kagan Said She Was `Not Sympathetic' Toward D.C. Gun-Rights Claim
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2010, 09:33:56 AM »
240 bringing the sense to this thread.  Seriously guys what's with all this bullsh*t doomsday talk?  It makes you look like fools without the ability to see outside black and white issues.  It really devalues your opinions on other topics as well because people see it and think gosh he has no perspective on an issue like this other than negativity. 

Ha,ha,ha didnt you vote for Obama?The guy who fillibustered Alito and wanted to fillibuster Roberts,both of whom make Kagen look like nothing in comparrison.Didnt the left kill the Bork nomination?Bork was 100 times more qualified then Kagen and had judicial ratings off the chart.We are jerks on a lifting board,the guys YOU support have and tried to kill judges that were FAR smarter,more qualifiued and had 5 times the expeiriance of Kagen.

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Re: Kagan Said She Was `Not Sympathetic' Toward D.C. Gun-Rights Claim
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2010, 09:37:59 AM »
Ha,ha,ha didnt you vote for Obama?The guy who fillibustered Alito and wanted to fillibuster Roberts,both of whom make Kagen look like nothing in comparrison.Didnt the left kill the Bork nomination?Bork was 100 times more qualified then Kagen and had judicial ratings off the chart.We are jerks on a lifting board,the guys YOU support have and tried to kill judges that were FAR smarter,more qualifiued and had 5 times the expeiriance of Kagen.

That may be true Billy and i agree i don't always support the attacks that occur on nominees for supreme court.  That however doesn't give me reason to not vote for a candidate if i still stand with them on a lot of issues.  two wrongs don't make a right billy.  Attacks from the left are not always warranted and attacks from the right are not always warranted. 
Abandon every hope...

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Re: Kagan Said She Was `Not Sympathetic' Toward D.C. Gun-Rights Claim
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2010, 09:40:33 AM »
That may be true Billy and i agree i don't always support the attacks that occur on nominees for supreme court.  That however doesn't give me reason to not vote for a candidate if i still stand with them on a lot of issues.  two wrongs don't make a right billy.  Attacks from the left are not always warranted and attacks from the right are not always warranted. 

The problem is can you remember the right stopping a Democrats supreme court nominee?The last time they tried to stop anyone was Harriet Myers a BUsh pick.The republicans should fillibuster this pick just like Obama fillbustered Alito.Id fillibuster EVERY pick he brought forth just like he did.