Author Topic: Russian navy kicked american navy video  (Read 15938 times)

andreisdaman

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Re: Russian navy kicked american navy video
« Reply #125 on: December 05, 2010, 01:02:12 PM »
Yeah they are setting you up, what do you think happens when one partner gets much stronger than the other?

SUCKERS.....hahahahahaha hh

We all know Russia will likely split apart some more.  It's in their history.  That's what they do, the only Thing they can do well is manufacture and drink vodka.  Other than that they screw everything else up and are are worthless.  

How many shots does it take to defeat russia?  

Answer:  zero

Even France, a country known for its cowardice, fired a few shots before surrendering to the Nazis

Kazan

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Re: Russian navy kicked american navy video
« Reply #126 on: December 05, 2010, 01:11:15 PM »
Japanese, Chinese need more land that is why they have asked Russia help them bend the US over, we shouldn't be doing it rapid though, steadily but certainly! and I don't think you understood it right. The Japanese may have probably meant wipe out in some industry not economically overall. No wonder you're the product of your media, completely brainwashed! Time to change???

So let me get this rights, they need more land so they are going to go half way around the world to get? Why not take the shit right next door? Talk about a brainwashed dumbass ::)
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theonlyone

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Re: Russian navy kicked american navy video
« Reply #127 on: December 05, 2010, 01:36:38 PM »
So let me get this rights, they need more land so they are going to go half way around the world to get? Why not take the shit right next door? Talk about a brainwashed dumbass ::)

 To go half way around the world is not a problem at all in the age of airplanes. China, Japan, Indonesia, India, Turkey whatever with the help of Russia will put the US in coffin. Economically.

OzmO

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Re: Russian navy kicked american navy video
« Reply #128 on: December 05, 2010, 02:06:20 PM »
Russia is stronger overall than China. The quantity doesn't mean shit. The quality does. China is facing big problems as of now, they need space, they can't do shit to Russia and Russia knows it, we have allied to counterbalance the west but it's just a beginning, cause the things are not working too well for you and what most importantly you will face even bigger problems. The overall picture can change literally in 10 years. The US is irrelevant my friend. You know why?


Russia stronger than china?   Hahahhahahahahahaah.   Keep drinking more vodka and you might even think you won the cold war.

So now it's 2020 not 2050?    ::)

Kazan

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Re: Russian navy kicked american navy video
« Reply #129 on: December 05, 2010, 03:51:41 PM »
To go half way around the world is not a problem at all in the age of airplanes. China, Japan, Indonesia, India, Turkey whatever with the help of Russia will put the US in coffin. Economically.

Yes because we have no air defense system what so ever ::) The real question why would any one help the russians? I mean seriously, you guys have a shitty record of personal freedom.

Patton was right, we should kicked your commie asses after Germany and Japan were defeated.
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Skip8282

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Re: Russian navy kicked american navy video
« Reply #130 on: December 05, 2010, 04:02:04 PM »
To go half way around the world is not a problem at all in the age of airplanes.




hahaha...bring it on douchebag.  Besides, what are going to without us?  Hell, we invent pretty much everything.

theonlyone

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Re: Russian navy kicked american navy video
« Reply #131 on: December 05, 2010, 11:13:36 PM »
Russia stronger than china?   Hahahhahahahahahaah.   Keep drinking more vodka and you might even think you won the cold war.

So now it's 2020 not 2050?    ::)

 Actually yeah we won it. We did it on intent and now Russia is an emerging superpower whereas it's getting worse and worse day by day in the US. Those former Soviet republics still suck Russian dick. The US have had gained nothing from the Soviet Union collapse, you just haven't had a state to rival you from 1990 - 2000 and felt that you're the man enough. Now as you can see Russia and China are not allies only but are going to stomp the US to death. We are not going to do it fast because you're a good consumer. The US could have bumped the Russian and Chinese heads in 90's thus eliminating the emerging huge superpowers. You didn't or couldn't and now you have absolutely no chance, no future for the US, Iraq will help us as well, Iran. lol
 in 2020 China will become the 1'st super power economically wise
 in 2050 The Northern America will be worse than Southern  

theonlyone

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Re: Russian navy kicked american navy video
« Reply #132 on: December 05, 2010, 11:14:57 PM »


hahaha...bring it on douchebag.  Besides, what are going to without us?  Hell, we invent pretty much everything.

 What do you invent that Russians don't have? Only you can do is to consume and make Hollywood flicks!!! You can't do shit that others can't ;)

loco

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Re: Russian navy kicked american navy video
« Reply #133 on: December 06, 2010, 06:59:38 AM »
Satellite disaster embarrasses Russia

Mon Dec 6, 2010

A bungled rocket launch that sent three satellites crashing into the sea trips up a big race against the U.S.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101206/wl_asia_afp/russiaspacescience

OzmO

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Re: Russian navy kicked american navy video
« Reply #134 on: December 06, 2010, 08:07:51 AM »
Russia...used, abuse and put away wet....hahahaha

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704679204575646472655698844.html

ZHUHAI, China—A year after the collapse of the Soviet Union, a cash-strapped Kremlin began selling China a chunk of its vast military arsenal, including the pride of the Russian air force, the Sukhoi-27 fighter jet.

For the next 15 years, Russia was China's biggest arms supplier, providing $20 billion to $30 billion of fighters, destroyers, submarines, tanks and missiles. It even sold Beijing a license to make the Su-27 fighter jet—with imported Russian parts.
[cams] Associated Press

Chinese fighter jets, believed to be J-11Bs, train over Tibet in July.

Today, Russia's military bonanza is over, and China's is just beginning.

After decades of importing and reverse-engineering Russian arms, China has reached a tipping point: It now can produce many of its own advanced weapons—including high-tech fighter jets like the Su-27—and is on the verge of building an aircraft carrier.

Not only have Chinese engineers cloned the prized Su-27's avionics and radar but they are fitting it with the last piece in the technological puzzle, a Chinese jet engine.

Now, China is starting to export much of this weaponry, undercutting Russia in the developing world, and potentially altering the military balance in several of the world's flash points.

This epochal turnaround was palpable in the Russian pavilion at November's Airshow China in the southern city of Zhuhai. Russia used to be the star of this show, wowing visitors with its "Russian Knights" aerobatic team, showing off fighters, helicopters and cargo planes, and sealing multibillion dollar deals on the sidelines.

This year, it didn't bring a single real aircraft—only a handful of plastic miniatures, tended by a few dozen bored sales staff.

China, by contrast, laid on its biggest commercial display of military technology—almost all based on Russian know-how.

The star guests were the "Sherdils," a Pakistani aerobatic team flying fighter jets that are Russian in origin but are now being produced by Pakistan and China.
Milestones

• 1950s — Soviet Union allows China to copy various low-tech weapons

• 1956 — Ideological dispute leads to cutoff of Soviet military assistance

• 1992 — China becomes first country outside former Soviet Union to buy Su-27 fighter jet

• 1994 — China buys four Kilo class diesel submarines from Russia

• 1996 — China buys license to assemble Su-27

• 1997 — China buys two Sovremenny-class destroyers from Russia

• 2002 — China buys eight more submarines and two more destroyers from Russia

• 2007 — China unveils J-11B, which Russians say is a copy of Su-27

"We used to be the senior partner in this relationship—now we're the junior one," said Ruslan Pukhov, of the Russian Defense Ministry's Public Advisory Council, a civilian advisory body to the military.

Russia's predicament mirrors that of many foreign companies as China starts to compete in global markets with advanced trains, power-generating equipment and other civilian products based on technology obtained from the West.

In this case, there is an additional security dimension, however: China is developing weapons systems, including aircraft carriers and carrier-based fighters, that could threaten Taiwan and test U.S. control of the Western Pacific.

Chinese exports of fighters and other advanced weapons also threaten to alter the military balance in South Asia, Sudan and Iran.

China's military muscle still lags far behind that of the U.S., by far the world's largest weapons manufacturer and exporter. China accounted for 2% of global arms transfers between 2005-2009, putting it in ninth place among exporters, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI).

But no other Asian country has sought to project military power—and had the indigenous capability to do so—since Japan's defeat in 1945.

China's rapid mastery of Russian technology raises questions about U.S. cooperation with the civilian faces of Chinese arms makers.

The Aviation Industry Corp. (AVIC), China's state aerospace company, builds fighters, for instance. But it is also making a new passenger jet with help from General Electric Co. and other U.S. aerospace companies. A GE official says the company has partnered with foreign engine manufacturers for decades "with elaborate protections built in place" that have preserved the company's intellectual property.

There are also implications for U.S. weapons programs. Last year the Pentagon decided to cut funding for the F-22—currently the most advanced fighter deployed in the world—partly on the grounds that China wouldn't have many similar aircraft for at least 15 years.

But then Gen. He Weirong, deputy head of China's Air Force, announced that Chinese versions of such jets were about to undergo test flights, and would be deployed in "eight or 10 years."

The Defense Intelligence Agency now says it will take China "about 10 years" to deploy stealth fighters in "meaningful numbers."

For Moscow and Beijing, meanwhile, a dispute over the intellectual-property rights to such weaponry is testing their efforts to overcome a long historical rivalry and build a new era of friendly ties.

"We didn't pay enough attention to our intellectual property in the past,"said a Russian defense official.   "Now China is even competing with us on the international market."
J-11B Specs


Few things illustrate this more clearly than the J-11B, a Chinese fighter that Russian officials allege is a direct copy of the Su-27, a one-seat fighter that was developed by the Soviets through the 1970s and 1980s as a match for the U.S. F-15 and F-16.

Before the early 1990s, Moscow hadn't provided major arms to Beijing since an ideological split in 1956, which led to a brief border clash in 1969.

But after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Kremlin was desperate for hard currency. In 1992, China became the first country outside the former Soviet Union to buy the Su-27, paying $1 billion for 24.

The deal was a coup for China, which had shifted its military focus away from a potential Soviet land invasion, and now wanted to defend territorial claims over Taiwan and parts of the South China Sea and East China Sea.

Efforts to upgrade its air and naval forces had been hampered by U.S. and European Union arms embargoes imposed after the 1989 crackdown on protesters around Tiananmen Square.

China's military modernization program grew more urgent after its leaders were stunned by the display of U.S. firepower during the first Gulf War, Western military officials say.

Beijing's breakthrough came in 1996, when it paid Russia $2.5 billion for a license to assemble another 200 Su-27s at the Shenyang Aircraft Company.

The agreement stipulated that the aircraft—to be called the J-11—would include imported Russian avionics, radars and engines and couldn't be exported.

But after building 105, China abruptly canceled the contract in 2004, claiming the aircraft no longer met its requirements, according to Russian officials and defense experts.

Three years later, Russia's fears were confirmed when China unveiled its own version of the fighter jet—the J-11B—on state television.

"When the license was sold, everyone knew they would do this. It was just a risk that was taken," said Vassily Kashin, a Russian expert on the Chinese military. "At that time it was a question of survival."

The J-11B looked almost identical to the Su-27, but China said it was 90% indigenous and included more advanced Chinese avionics and radars. Only the engine was still Russian, China said.

Now it is being fitted with a Chinese engine as well, according to Zhang Xinguo, deputy president of AVIC, which includes Shenyang Aircraft.

"You cannot say it's just a copy," he said. "Mobile phones all look similar. But technology is developing very quickly. Even if it looks the same, everything inside cannot be the same."

The J-11B presented Russia with a stark choice—to continue selling China weapons, and risk having them cloned, too, or to stop, and miss out on its still lucrative market.

Russia's initial response was to suspend talks on selling China the Su-33, a fighter with folding wings that can be used on aircraft carriers.

Since then, however, it has re-opened negotiations on the Su-33, although it rejected China's offer to buy just two, and insisted on a larger order.

Sukhoi Aviation Holding Co.'s official position now is that it remains confident about its business in China.

Indeed, many aviation experts believe AVIC is having problems developing an indigenous engine for the J-11B with the same thrust and durability as the original Russian ones.

Sukhoi is betting that China will have to buy the Su-33 on Russian terms as Beijing will struggle to develop its own carrier-based fighter in time for the planned launch of its first carriers in 2011 or 2012.

The company also hopes to sell China the Su-35—a more advanced version of the Su-27—if the J-11B doesn't perform well enough.

"We're just hoping our aircraft will be better," said Sergey Sergeev, deputy director general of Sukhoi. "It's one thing to make a good quality copy of a spoon, but quite another to make one of an aircraft."

The Russian and Chinese governments both declined to comment.

In private, however, Russian officials say they worry that China is about to start mass producing and exporting advanced fighters—without Russian help. China bought $16 billion worth of Russian arms between 2001 and 2008—40% of Russia's sales.

Photographs published recently on Chinese military websites appear to show engines fitted on the J-11B and a modified version—called the J-15—for use on aircraft carriers.

That has compounded Russian fears that China has reverse engineered an Su-33 prototype it acquired in 2001 from Ukraine, according to Russian defense experts.

At last year's Dubai Air Show, China demonstrated its L-15 trainer jet for the first time. In June, China made its debut at the Eurosatory arms fair in France.

In July, China demonstrated the JF-17—the fighter developed with Pakistan—for the first time overseas at the Farnborough Airshow in Britain.

China also had one of the biggest pavilions at an arms fair in Capetown in September.

"They're showing up at arms fairs they've never been to before," said Siemon T. Wezeman, an arms trade expert at SIPRI. "Whereas 15 years ago they had nothing really, now they're offering reasonable technology at a reasonable price."

China is generating particular interest among developing countries, especially with the relatively cheap JF-17 fighter with a Russian engine.

The Kremlin has approved the re-export of the engine to Pakistan, as it has no arms business there.

But it was enraged last year when Azerbaijan, an ex-Soviet republic, began talks on buying JF-17s, according to people familiar with the situation.

Also last year, China's JF-17s and Russia's MiG-29s competed in a tender from Myanmar, which eventually chose the Russians, but paid less than they wanted.

This year, both entered a tender from Egypt, with China offering the JF-17 for $10 million less than Russia's $30 million MiG-29.

That prompted Mikhail Pogosyan, who heads Sukhoi and the company that makes MiGs, to suggest that the Kremlin stop selling China the Russian engines for the JF-17.

The Kremlin hasn't done that yet, but Russian officials have suggested privately taking legal action if China exports more advanced jets like the J-11B.

Last month, Russia's government proposed new legislation attaching an intellectual property rights clause to foreign military sales agreements.

The issue was raised during a visit by President Dmitry Medvedev to China in October, according to people familiar with the situation.

"Of course we're concerned, but we also recognize there's very little we can do," said Mr. Pukhov, of the Russian Defense Ministry's Public Advisory Council.

Asked what advice he would give Western aerospace firms, Sukhoi's Mr. Sergeev said: "They should keep in mind what products they're selling—whether they're civilian or dual use. And most important is to prepare very carefully your contract documents."

While Russia worries about intellectual property, other countries are concerned about security. The arms programs China initiated two or three decades ago are starting to bear fruit, with serious implications for the regional—and global—military balance.

The J-11B is expected to be used by the Chinese navy as its frontline fighter, capable of sustained combat over the entire East China Sea and South China Sea.

Aircraft carriers and J-15 fighters would further enhance its ability to stop the U.S. intervening in a conflict over Taiwan, and test its control of the Western Pacific.

China's arms exports could have repercussions on regions in conflict around the world. Pakistan inducted its first squadron of Chinese-made fighter jets in February, potentially altering the military balance with India.

Other potential buyers of China's JF-17 fighter jet include Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Venezuela, Nigeria, Morocco and Turkey. In the past, China has also sold fighters to Sudan.

The potential customer of greatest concern to the U.S. is Iran, which purchased about $260 million of weapons from China between 2002-2009, according to Russia's Centre for Analysis of the Global Arms Trade.

In June, China backed U.N. sanctions on Iran, including an expanded arms embargo, but Tehran continues to seek Chinese fighters and other weaponry

OzmO

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Re: Russian navy kicked american navy video
« Reply #135 on: December 06, 2010, 08:12:02 AM »
Actually yeah we won it. We did it on intent and now Russia is an emerging superpower whereas it's getting worse and worse day by day in the US. Those former Soviet republics still suck Russian dick. The US have had gained nothing from the Soviet Union collapse, you just haven't had a state to rival you from 1990 - 2000 and felt that you're the man enough. Now as you can see Russia and China are not allies only but are going to stomp the US to death. We are not going to do it fast because you're a good consumer. The US could have bumped the Russian and Chinese heads in 90's thus eliminating the emerging huge superpowers. You didn't or couldn't and now you have absolutely no chance, no future for the US, Iraq will help us as well, Iran. lol
 in 2020 China will become the 1'st super power economically wise
 in 2050 The Northern America will be worse than Southern  

Wow, you went to 2050 again.........imagine that. ::) ::)


As for the former soviet republics...in 1990 they told you to lick their bung holes and Russia did so accordingly and still do.  Meanwhile, China is pimping your whore asses out and you think its some sort of alliance...hahahahahahah aha   typical Russian loser mentality.

Hereford

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Re: Russian navy kicked american navy video
« Reply #136 on: December 06, 2010, 04:24:54 PM »
MOSCOW (AFP) – A programming error may have caused a rocket carrying three Russian navigation satellites to fail to reach orbit, a Russian space agency source told the RIA Novosti news agency on Monday.

"A number of specialists think that mistakes in the programming of the onboard computer system of the Proton rocket led to the engines sending the rocket too high and onto a faulty trajectory," the source said.

The rocket carrying satellites for the Russian government navigation system Glonass, failed to reach the correct orbit Sunday after blasting off from Baikonur cosmodrome, the Russian space agency said.

The satellites crashed into the Pacific Ocean near Hawaii, the spacecraft corporation RKK Energiya said in a statement, confirming earlier reports.

"The Proton launch rocket functioned abnormally, sending the three Glonass satellites and the upper-stage booster rocket on the wrong trajectory and they fell into the Pacific Ocean 1,500 kilometers northwest of Honolulu," the statement said.

[Related: Alien discovery refines ‘life as we know it’]

Once separated from the Proton launch rocket, the upper-stage booster rocket with the three satellites aboard should have put them in orbit about 20 kilometres (12 miles) above the earth.


Click image to see photos of the rocket and satellites

AFP
A space agency source told RIA Novosti that the upper-stage rocket and the satellites immediately disappeared from radio coverage, making it impossible to correct the trajectory.

President Dmitry Medvedev ordered the Prosecutor General Yury Chaika to investigate the loss of the satellites and name the people responsible, the Kremlin said in a statement on its website late Sunday.

The terse statement said the president had also demanded an audit of spending on the entire Glonass programme.

The failure was an embarrassing setback for Russia's attempt to put a satellite navigation system in place to rival the United States's GPS (Global Positioning System) and steal a march on Europe's fledgling Galileo system.

Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has underscored the strategic significance of developing the Glonass system to ensure Russia's technological independence.

In a publicity stunt, he even fitted his dog Connie with a collar with a Glonass transmitter.

[Related: Secret spy satellite launches into orbit]

Putin said in April that Russia planned to equip all new cars sold in Russia in 2012 with the new navigation system, developed by the Russian military in the 1980s.

He said Moscow planned to launch a total of seven new Glonass satellites which would ensure coverage of the entire planet, bringing to 27 or 28 the number of operational satellites.

It currently deploys 26 satellites, six of which are not in use.

Russia planned to spend 1.7 billion rubles (40 million dollars) on the project in 2011, after two billion rubles spent in 2010, Putin said.


From Yahoo news... and wherever they got it from...

Looks like Russia is improving... at least they can actually get a rocket up without exploding on the pad these days.



andreisdaman

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Re: Russian navy kicked american navy video
« Reply #137 on: December 06, 2010, 07:27:05 PM »
In a few years China will be Russia's pimp

theonlyone

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Re: Russian navy kicked american navy video
« Reply #138 on: December 07, 2010, 06:30:29 AM »


Looks like Russia is improving... at least they can actually get a rocket up without exploding on the pad these days.

 Looks like the US are decaying, they ask Russians to send their astronauts to cosmos

theonlyone

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Re: Russian navy kicked american navy video
« Reply #139 on: December 07, 2010, 06:32:14 AM »
Russia...used, abuse and put away wet....hahahaha

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704679204575646472655698844.html

ZHUHAI, China—A year after the collapse of the Soviet Union, a cash-strapped Kremlin began selling China a chunk of its vast military arsenal, including the pride of the Russian air force, the Sukhoi-27 fighter jet.

For the next 15 years, Russia was China's biggest arms supplier, providing $20 billion to $30 billion of fighters, destroyers, submarines, tanks and missiles. It even sold Beijing a license to make the Su-27 fighter jet—with imported Russian parts.
[cams] Associated Press

Chinese fighter jets, believed to be J-11Bs, train over Tibet in July.

Today, Russia's military bonanza is over, and China's is just beginning.

After decades of importing and reverse-engineering Russian arms, China has reached a tipping point: It now can produce many of its own advanced weapons—including high-tech fighter jets like the Su-27—and is on the verge of building an aircraft carrier.

Not only have Chinese engineers cloned the prized Su-27's avionics and radar but they are fitting it with the last piece in the technological puzzle, a Chinese jet engine.

Now, China is starting to export much of this weaponry, undercutting Russia in the developing world, and potentially altering the military balance in several of the world's flash points.

This epochal turnaround was palpable in the Russian pavilion at November's Airshow China in the southern city of Zhuhai. Russia used to be the star of this show, wowing visitors with its "Russian Knights" aerobatic team, showing off fighters, helicopters and cargo planes, and sealing multibillion dollar deals on the sidelines.

This year, it didn't bring a single real aircraft—only a handful of plastic miniatures, tended by a few dozen bored sales staff.

China, by contrast, laid on its biggest commercial display of military technology—almost all based on Russian know-how.

The star guests were the "Sherdils," a Pakistani aerobatic team flying fighter jets that are Russian in origin but are now being produced by Pakistan and China.
Milestones

• 1950s — Soviet Union allows China to copy various low-tech weapons

• 1956 — Ideological dispute leads to cutoff of Soviet military assistance

• 1992 — China becomes first country outside former Soviet Union to buy Su-27 fighter jet

• 1994 — China buys four Kilo class diesel submarines from Russia

• 1996 — China buys license to assemble Su-27

• 1997 — China buys two Sovremenny-class destroyers from Russia

• 2002 — China buys eight more submarines and two more destroyers from Russia

• 2007 — China unveils J-11B, which Russians say is a copy of Su-27

"We used to be the senior partner in this relationship—now we're the junior one," said Ruslan Pukhov, of the Russian Defense Ministry's Public Advisory Council, a civilian advisory body to the military.

Russia's predicament mirrors that of many foreign companies as China starts to compete in global markets with advanced trains, power-generating equipment and other civilian products based on technology obtained from the West.

In this case, there is an additional security dimension, however: China is developing weapons systems, including aircraft carriers and carrier-based fighters, that could threaten Taiwan and test U.S. control of the Western Pacific.

Chinese exports of fighters and other advanced weapons also threaten to alter the military balance in South Asia, Sudan and Iran.

China's military muscle still lags far behind that of the U.S., by far the world's largest weapons manufacturer and exporter. China accounted for 2% of global arms transfers between 2005-2009, putting it in ninth place among exporters, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI).

But no other Asian country has sought to project military power—and had the indigenous capability to do so—since Japan's defeat in 1945.

China's rapid mastery of Russian technology raises questions about U.S. cooperation with the civilian faces of Chinese arms makers.

The Aviation Industry Corp. (AVIC), China's state aerospace company, builds fighters, for instance. But it is also making a new passenger jet with help from General Electric Co. and other U.S. aerospace companies. A GE official says the company has partnered with foreign engine manufacturers for decades "with elaborate protections built in place" that have preserved the company's intellectual property.

There are also implications for U.S. weapons programs. Last year the Pentagon decided to cut funding for the F-22—currently the most advanced fighter deployed in the world—partly on the grounds that China wouldn't have many similar aircraft for at least 15 years.

But then Gen. He Weirong, deputy head of China's Air Force, announced that Chinese versions of such jets were about to undergo test flights, and would be deployed in "eight or 10 years."

The Defense Intelligence Agency now says it will take China "about 10 years" to deploy stealth fighters in "meaningful numbers."

For Moscow and Beijing, meanwhile, a dispute over the intellectual-property rights to such weaponry is testing their efforts to overcome a long historical rivalry and build a new era of friendly ties.

"We didn't pay enough attention to our intellectual property in the past,"said a Russian defense official.   "Now China is even competing with us on the international market."
J-11B Specs


Few things illustrate this more clearly than the J-11B, a Chinese fighter that Russian officials allege is a direct copy of the Su-27, a one-seat fighter that was developed by the Soviets through the 1970s and 1980s as a match for the U.S. F-15 and F-16.

Before the early 1990s, Moscow hadn't provided major arms to Beijing since an ideological split in 1956, which led to a brief border clash in 1969.

But after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Kremlin was desperate for hard currency. In 1992, China became the first country outside the former Soviet Union to buy the Su-27, paying $1 billion for 24.

The deal was a coup for China, which had shifted its military focus away from a potential Soviet land invasion, and now wanted to defend territorial claims over Taiwan and parts of the South China Sea and East China Sea.

Efforts to upgrade its air and naval forces had been hampered by U.S. and European Union arms embargoes imposed after the 1989 crackdown on protesters around Tiananmen Square.

China's military modernization program grew more urgent after its leaders were stunned by the display of U.S. firepower during the first Gulf War, Western military officials say.

Beijing's breakthrough came in 1996, when it paid Russia $2.5 billion for a license to assemble another 200 Su-27s at the Shenyang Aircraft Company.

The agreement stipulated that the aircraft—to be called the J-11—would include imported Russian avionics, radars and engines and couldn't be exported.

But after building 105, China abruptly canceled the contract in 2004, claiming the aircraft no longer met its requirements, according to Russian officials and defense experts.

Three years later, Russia's fears were confirmed when China unveiled its own version of the fighter jet—the J-11B—on state television.

"When the license was sold, everyone knew they would do this. It was just a risk that was taken," said Vassily Kashin, a Russian expert on the Chinese military. "At that time it was a question of survival."

The J-11B looked almost identical to the Su-27, but China said it was 90% indigenous and included more advanced Chinese avionics and radars. Only the engine was still Russian, China said.

Now it is being fitted with a Chinese engine as well, according to Zhang Xinguo, deputy president of AVIC, which includes Shenyang Aircraft.

"You cannot say it's just a copy," he said. "Mobile phones all look similar. But technology is developing very quickly. Even if it looks the same, everything inside cannot be the same."

The J-11B presented Russia with a stark choice—to continue selling China weapons, and risk having them cloned, too, or to stop, and miss out on its still lucrative market.

Russia's initial response was to suspend talks on selling China the Su-33, a fighter with folding wings that can be used on aircraft carriers.

Since then, however, it has re-opened negotiations on the Su-33, although it rejected China's offer to buy just two, and insisted on a larger order.

Sukhoi Aviation Holding Co.'s official position now is that it remains confident about its business in China.

Indeed, many aviation experts believe AVIC is having problems developing an indigenous engine for the J-11B with the same thrust and durability as the original Russian ones.

Sukhoi is betting that China will have to buy the Su-33 on Russian terms as Beijing will struggle to develop its own carrier-based fighter in time for the planned launch of its first carriers in 2011 or 2012.

The company also hopes to sell China the Su-35—a more advanced version of the Su-27—if the J-11B doesn't perform well enough.

"We're just hoping our aircraft will be better," said Sergey Sergeev, deputy director general of Sukhoi. "It's one thing to make a good quality copy of a spoon, but quite another to make one of an aircraft."

The Russian and Chinese governments both declined to comment.

In private, however, Russian officials say they worry that China is about to start mass producing and exporting advanced fighters—without Russian help. China bought $16 billion worth of Russian arms between 2001 and 2008—40% of Russia's sales.

Photographs published recently on Chinese military websites appear to show engines fitted on the J-11B and a modified version—called the J-15—for use on aircraft carriers.

That has compounded Russian fears that China has reverse engineered an Su-33 prototype it acquired in 2001 from Ukraine, according to Russian defense experts.

At last year's Dubai Air Show, China demonstrated its L-15 trainer jet for the first time. In June, China made its debut at the Eurosatory arms fair in France.

In July, China demonstrated the JF-17—the fighter developed with Pakistan—for the first time overseas at the Farnborough Airshow in Britain.

China also had one of the biggest pavilions at an arms fair in Capetown in September.

"They're showing up at arms fairs they've never been to before," said Siemon T. Wezeman, an arms trade expert at SIPRI. "Whereas 15 years ago they had nothing really, now they're offering reasonable technology at a reasonable price."

China is generating particular interest among developing countries, especially with the relatively cheap JF-17 fighter with a Russian engine.

The Kremlin has approved the re-export of the engine to Pakistan, as it has no arms business there.

But it was enraged last year when Azerbaijan, an ex-Soviet republic, began talks on buying JF-17s, according to people familiar with the situation.

Also last year, China's JF-17s and Russia's MiG-29s competed in a tender from Myanmar, which eventually chose the Russians, but paid less than they wanted.

This year, both entered a tender from Egypt, with China offering the JF-17 for $10 million less than Russia's $30 million MiG-29.

That prompted Mikhail Pogosyan, who heads Sukhoi and the company that makes MiGs, to suggest that the Kremlin stop selling China the Russian engines for the JF-17.

The Kremlin hasn't done that yet, but Russian officials have suggested privately taking legal action if China exports more advanced jets like the J-11B.

Last month, Russia's government proposed new legislation attaching an intellectual property rights clause to foreign military sales agreements.

The issue was raised during a visit by President Dmitry Medvedev to China in October, according to people familiar with the situation.

"Of course we're concerned, but we also recognize there's very little we can do," said Mr. Pukhov, of the Russian Defense Ministry's Public Advisory Council.

Asked what advice he would give Western aerospace firms, Sukhoi's Mr. Sergeev said: "They should keep in mind what products they're selling—whether they're civilian or dual use. And most important is to prepare very carefully your contract documents."

While Russia worries about intellectual property, other countries are concerned about security. The arms programs China initiated two or three decades ago are starting to bear fruit, with serious implications for the regional—and global—military balance.

The J-11B is expected to be used by the Chinese navy as its frontline fighter, capable of sustained combat over the entire East China Sea and South China Sea.

Aircraft carriers and J-15 fighters would further enhance its ability to stop the U.S. intervening in a conflict over Taiwan, and test its control of the Western Pacific.

China's arms exports could have repercussions on regions in conflict around the world. Pakistan inducted its first squadron of Chinese-made fighter jets in February, potentially altering the military balance with India.

Other potential buyers of China's JF-17 fighter jet include Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Venezuela, Nigeria, Morocco and Turkey. In the past, China has also sold fighters to Sudan.

The potential customer of greatest concern to the U.S. is Iran, which purchased about $260 million of weapons from China between 2002-2009, according to Russia's Centre for Analysis of the Global Arms Trade.

In June, China backed U.N. sanctions on Iran, including an expanded arms embargo, but Tehran continues to seek Chinese fighters and other weaponry

 it's way too long to read bro, can you sum it up?

theonlyone

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Re: Russian navy kicked american navy video
« Reply #140 on: December 07, 2010, 07:16:53 AM »
 Ozmo bro, do you like Russian ballet?


 And if we sell this fighter say to India, it's empty! The export variant is always far worse and Indian pilots can't do shit...

OzmO

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Re: Russian navy kicked american navy video
« Reply #141 on: December 07, 2010, 02:57:39 PM »
Ozmo bro, do you like Russian ballet?


 And if we sell this fighter say to India, it's empty! The export variant is always far worse and Indian pilots can't do shit...


Oh yeah....2050   ::)