Chest Training Dilemma

[TDK]

I was training chest today and started with smith incline presses.  An old injury in my left pec/delt tie in came back 3 reps into my first workset.  I felt it go out of the blue and felt like kicking the shit out of the damn machine.

I have had this injury about 3 times in the last 3 years.  It feels like a slight tear and it always happens in the smith machine.  Now you may think I am a dumb ass for even using it but the only gym near to me is a fitness style gym and doesnt have any barbells.  Yes you read that right.  The dumbells only go up to 90lbs which is pretty easy for me now on incline presses.

Now I am going to drop smith presses as my main chest exercise I have a few different ways in which I can train my chest once I recover.  I can either start with Hammer Strength Presses (the only decent chest machine in the gym), then do incline dumbells presses after them when my chest is fatigued so it will be harder then if I started with them.  I could also start with incline dumbell press but do the reps super slow and controlled with 12-15 reps per set, then go to Hammer Presses.  Or again I could perform a flye/press to start with (basically a press with hand in parallell flye positions) which is harder than the normal dumbell press.  I could do these first and then do traditional DB presses on flat or incline or do Hammer Presses.

Which way would you guys go about this?  As you can see I am pretty limited but I will push my body into new growth somehow.

[pumpster]

You've already outlined some good alternatives, mainly pre-exhausting the pecs before getting to the lighter dumbbells. Don't bother further with any injury-causing movements as the problem is likely to continue to recur. FYI as you probably already know, anyone with shoulder probs shouldn't be bothering with free weight BBs at all in lieu of other alternatives like good machines, DBs or cables.

If you avoid pre-exhaust and go straight to the lighter dumbbells, you can increase the intensity using the same weight by supersetting them with another chest exercise, by adding partials or rest-pause reps after reaching failure, including negatives or by reducing the rest times between sets, to name a few. Super-slow may appeal to some but i've never found them effective or attractive; mainly they're gruelling.

Another possibility would be to do incline flys, DB or cable, instead of DB presses. A very good alternative to DB presses. Or use these as one of the superset combos with the existing presses.

All of the variations mentioned would make sense-try each for a while, keep those that are effective for hitting the desired areas, cycle each in and out over various workouts along with any other variations you find.

[TDK]

Cheers Pumpster, some very sound info there mate.

[TDK]

I think I will do this chest routine once I'm healed up:

1: Incline DB Flyes/Incline DB Press superset - 2 warmups, 3 work sets (6 total)
2: Hammer Chest Press - 4 sets pyramided
3: Pec Dec Flye or Incline Cable Machine - 2-3 sets

I will start this and see how I like it then maybe fiddle around with the arrangement from week to week if I fancy it.

[JPM]

Might also try One and One Half rep presses also. This will increase the time under tension (TUT) on the muscles, which is a prime influence for muscle growth. DB inclines for example. Do a regular press but lower the DB's down half way and than press back up again. From the top position lower the DB's back down to the original starting position. That would be One and One Half reps. Try for 8 to 12 reps.  Suggest that you start with a pair of 60's or so because this system can fatique a muscle quite fast with the longer timed work load on it. The 90's may feel too heavy for this style of training at first.

As for a general chest workout you might start with dips, Incline DB presses (1 &1/2 system) and than the Hammer strength presses. Actually the 1 1/2 system could work well on all those chest exercises. If you do pre-exhaust than a set of pec deck's may be a better choice than DB flys, even cable fly's.  Giants set's (5 or more chest exercises without or limited rest) do not require heavy weight use.  Like any special BB'ing program (1 &1/2, pre-exhaust, giant ses, etc) they are meant for short term use, like from 4 to 8 weeks. Than it's back to more traditional lifting programs.  Seems that TDK is out growing his current gym. That can be a good thing. Good Luck.

[TDK]

Im gonna hit chest again next Saturday and warm up real light.  If my injury has passed then I will keep a little log on here about which exercises caused the least pain and discomfort along with the best pump and stimulation.  It might be of some use to others with recent or future shoulder problems.

[TDK]

Might also try One and One Half rep presses also. This will increase the time under tension (TUT) on the muscles, which is a prime influence for muscle growth. DB inclines for example. Do a regular press but lower the DB's down half way and than press back up again. From the top position lower the DB's back down to the original starting position. That would be One and One Half reps. Try for 8 to 12 reps.  Suggest that you start with a pair of 60's or so because this system can fatique a muscle quite fast with the longer timed work load on it. The 90's may feel too heavy for this style of training at first.

As for a general chest workout you might start with dips, Incline DB presses (1 &1/2 system) and than the Hammer strength presses. Actually the 1 1/2 system could work well on all those chest exercises. If you do pre-exhaust than a set of pec deck's may be a better choice than DB flys, even cable fly's.  Giants set's (5 or more chest exercises without or limited rest) do not require heavy weight use.  Like any special BB'ing program (1 &1/2, pre-exhaust, giant ses, etc) they are meant for short term use, like from 4 to 8 weeks. Than it's back to more traditional lifting programs.  Seems that TDK is out growing his current gym. That can be a good thing. Good Luck.

The 1 and a half reps on Incline Dumbell Presses sounds like a good idea.  Anyone else tried this method and advocates it or think its a good idea?

I think I will give these a go as my first exercise as I feel better starting with a compond movement for chest when bulking. 

[WOOO]

Im gonna hit chest again next Saturday and warm up real light.  If my injury has passed then I will keep a little log on here about which exercises caused the least pain and discomfort along with the best pump and stimulation.  It might be of some use to others with recent or future shoulder problems.

while i agree that you should warm up the muscles and joints of the area you will be working with several light sets, I think it's also important that you warm your body up and get a sweat going.  try adding in a 5 minute sprint on an eliptical trainer to get your entire body warmed up

[buffbong]

personally i hate pre exhausting some like it and im not  a fan of super setting cause i feel the second exersize u dont focus on as much than if u did a straight set.
ill write a few suggestions hope this helps.

u could do more sets of the dumbell presses since it is easier for u heres a few routines

flat dumbell presses  5x10 with the 90s
incline dumbell presses 3x10
incline flyes 3x10

or
incline dumbell presses 5x10
flat dumbell presses 3x10
flat flyes 3x10
or
hammer strength flat  10-8-6
hammer strength incline 3x10
incline flyes 3x10
or
hammer strength incline 10-8-6
flat hammer 3x10
flat flyes 3x10

hope this helps man good luck.

[barnabas]

You've already outlined some good alternatives, mainly pre-exhausting the pecs before getting to the lighter dumbbells. Don't bother further with any injury-causing movements as the problem is likely to continue to recur. FYI as you probably already know, anyone with shoulder probs shouldn't be bothering with free weight BBs at all in lieu of other alternatives like good machines, DBs or cables.

If you avoid pre-exhaust and go straight to the lighter dumbbells, you can increase the intensity using the same weight by supersetting them with another chest exercise, by adding partials or rest-pause reps after reaching failure, including negatives or by reducing the rest times between sets, to name a few. Super-slow may appeal to some but i've never found them effective or attractive; mainly they're gruelling.

Another possibility would be to do incline flys, DB or cable, instead of DB presses. A very good alternative to DB presses. Or use these as one of the superset combos with the existing presses.

All of the variations mentioned would make sense-try each for a while, keep those that are effective for hitting the desired areas, cycle each in and out over various workouts along with any other variations you find.

That's good advice.  You obviously aren't lifting in ideal conditions.  So you have to make the most of what you have to work with.  And  what was said above is the best way to go in your situation.

[davie]

I was doing:
flat db 3x8
incline db 3x8
Incline fly 3x8
decline db 3x8

I am now doing
Flat Db (will switch to incline db or BB in next few weeks for a few weeks).... 5x8, pyramid up in weight so 3rd sets the heaviest and fourth set u use same weight as set 2 and fifth set u use same weight as set 1.
Followed by 3x8 incline flys or pek dek.

My chest is really sore after this, try focus on incresing intensity, seems to get me just as sore with fewer sets.

davie

[blondmusclhunk]

What kind of Hammer press are you using?  Flat or incline hopefully your not doing two incline movments.  I use the Hammer flat press and incline press a lot sometimes great machines probably the best for a machine type.  Try pre-exahuasting with flyes then flat then incline dumbell