More Muslim Insanity: Because of a Teddy Bear!

[Deicide]

http://www.newsalerts.com/news/article/-muhammad-teddy-teacher-arrested.html:world17:969194

[Butterbean]

"A British schoolteacher has been arrested in Sudan accused of insulting Islam's Prophet, after she allowed her pupils to name a teddy bear Muhammad.

Colleagues of Gillian Gibbons, 54, from Liverpool, said she made an "innocent mistake" by letting the six and seven-year-olds choose the name."




"The BBC has learned the charge could lead to six months in jail, 40 lashes or a fine."
 

[Deicide]

"A British schoolteacher has been arrested in Sudan accused of insulting Islam's Prophet, after she allowed her pupils to name a teddy bear Muhammad.

Colleagues of Gillian Gibbons, 54, from Liverpool, said she made an "innocent mistake" by letting the six and seven-year-olds choose the name."




"The BBC has learned the charge could lead to six months in jail, 40 lashes or a fine."
 

But a few centuries ago, your Christian buddies were pulling the same bullshit...

[Butterbean]

But a few centuries ago, your Christian buddies were pulling the same bullshit...

Yes, Tom and Sam....I remember them well.  We were like peas in a pod we were.....

[Deicide]

Yes, Tom and Sam....I remember them well.  We were like peas in a pod we were.....

That's what happens when you believe in invisible sky daddies...

[loco]

But a few centuries ago, your Christian buddies were pulling the same bullshit...

Must we dwell in the past?  

That's true, Trapezkerl!  But all that changed when Christians started reading the Bible in their own language, thank Martin Luther, and realized that this bs they were pulling went against Jesus Christ's commandments of love and peace.  They realized then that the bs church leaders of the time were telling them to pull was wrong.

[Deicide]

Must we dwell in the past?  

That's true, Trapezkerl!  But all that changed when Christians started reading the Bible in their own language, thank Martin Luther, and realized that this bs they were pulling went against Jesus Christ's commandments of love and peace.  They realized then that the bs church leaders of the time were telling them to pull was wrong.

Funny you should mention Mr. Luther, a massive anti-semite, burnt down synagogues, set the stage for the 20th century Holocaust, the Wars of Religion which consumed Europe for centuries, bringing death, destruction and persecution to countless people...yes, we can thank Luther for many things indeed...

Herzlichen Dank, Herr Luther...

[Deicide]

Must we dwell in the past?  

That's true, Trapezkerl!  But all that changed when Christians started reading the Bible in their own language, thank Martin Luther, and realized that this bs they were pulling went against Jesus Christ's commandments of love and peace.  They realized then that the bs church leaders of the time were telling them to pull was wrong.

In Martin Luther's book "DIE JUDEN UND IHREN LUEGEN" (The Jews and Their Lies) he wrote:

"First, . . . set fire to their synagogues or schools and . . . bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians . . .. [It would be good if someone could also throw in some] hellfire."

"Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed.

"Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are to be taught, be taken from them. . . . also the entire Bible. . . . [The Jews] be forbidden on pain of death to praise God, to give thanks, to pray, and to teach publicly among us and in our country. . . . [T]hey be forbidden to utter the name of God within our hearing. . . . We must not consider the mouth of the Jews as worthy of uttering the name of God within our hearing. He who hears this name from a Jew must inform the authorities, or else throw sow dung at him when he sees him and chase him away. And may no one be merciful and kind in this regard.

"Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. . . .

"Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. . . .

"Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them and that all case and treasure . . . be taken from them and put aside for safekeeping. . . . Whenever a Jew is sincerely converted [almost an impossibility according to Luther] he should [receive a cash bonus].

"Seventh, I recommend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow . . .. For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and farting . . ..

"The country and the roads are open for them to proceed to their land whenever they wish. If they did so, we would be glad to present gifts to them on the occasion; it would be good riddance. For they are a heavy burden, a plague, a pestilence, a sheer misfortune for our country."

EXTERMINATION OF THE JEWS

Luther was not a consistent advocate of killing Jews, but he discussed murder as a "Final Solution" if all else failed, and he often believed that all else would fail. Several elements in Luther's program contained murderous implications. Setting fire to the synagogues, homes, and holy books of the Jews, the first three steps of Luther's program, might have met with physical resistance from the Jews, which, in turn, would have led the Christian princes to use lethal force. Even Jewish resignation to the inevitability of these actions would probably have led to Christian riots and other potentially murderous actions against Jews. Moreover, Luther advocated a crude and merciless attack on Jews who pray, which could also have resulted in Jewish deaths.

Luther's program for the Jews asked the princes three times to kill Jews who resisted. His third and fourth steps mention "pain of death" and pain of loss of life and limb. In his fifth step advises the authorities to deprive the Jews of safe passage once they left their ghettos. Another passage indicated that Luther saw the necessity of killing at least some of the Jews:

"I wish and I ask that our rulers who have Jewish subjects exercise a sharp mercy toward these wretched people . . .. They must act like a good physician who, when gangrene has set in, proceeds without mercy to cut, saw, and burn flesh, veins, bone, and marrow. Such a procedure must also be followed in this instance. Burn down their synagogues, forbid all that I enumerated earlier, force them to work, and deal harshly with them, as Moses did in the wilderness, slaying three thousand lest the whole people perish. [They are a] people possessed . . .."

As mentioned earlier, Luther repeatedly employed the language of violence against most, if not all, of his enemies. Luther did not, however, distinguish between the realistic threat of rebellious peasants and the fantastic "danger" of the powerless Jews because he regarded the Jews as a menace to his theological vision of life, earthly and eternal.

Jews became a symbol for all that was evil and devilish, unChristian and anti-Christian in the world. For these reasons, the Jews appeared more threatening than Luther's other enemies, and he assaulted them with his words and advocated governmental violence against them.

In at least three other passages, Luther approached an advocacy of mass murder of Jews. A sermon of 1539 argued that "I cannot convert the Jews. Our Lord Jesus Christ did not succeed in doing it. But I can stop up their mouths so that they will have to lie upon the ground." The language is ambiguous, but it implies a death threat and reminds us of St. John Chrysostom's words. The imprecise language allowed people of good will to believe that outright murder was not being proposed, while at the same time this kind of language permitted Christians to "speak about the unspeakable," the mass murder of Jews.

Luther also wrote that Jews, like usurers and thieves, should be executed: "[Today's Jews] are nothing but thieves and robbers who daily eat no morsel and wear no thread of clothing which they have not stolen and pilfered from us by means of their accursed usury. Thus they live from day to day, together with wife and child, by theft and robbery, as arch-thieves and robbers, in the most impenitent security. . . . If I had power over the Jews, as our princes and cities have, I would deal severely with their lying mouth. . . . For a usurer is an arch-thief and a robber who should rightly be hanged on the gallows seven times higher than other thieves."

The deadly syllogism Luther concocts in this paragraph may be stated as follows: All thieves and usurers should be executed by hanging. All Jews are thieves and usurers. Therefore, all Jews should be hanged.

In another section of "The Jews and Their Lies," Luther clearly stated that all Jews should be murdered. "We are even at fault in not avenging all this innocent blood of our Lord and of the Christians which they shed for three hundred years after the destruction of Jerusalem, and the blood of the children they have shed since then (which still shines forth from their eyes and their skin). We are at fault in not slaying them

."

http://www.harrington-sites.com/Luther_2.htm

[loco]

Funny you should mention Mr. Luther, a massive anti-semite, burnt down synagogues, set the stage for the 20th century Holocaust, the Wars of Religion which consumed Europe for centuries, bringing death, destruction and persecution to countless people...yes, we can thank Luther for many things indeed...

That's highly debatable

"Martin Brecht argues that there is a world of difference between Luther's belief in salvation, which depended on a faith in Jesus as the messiah — a belief Luther criticized the Jews for rejecting — and the Nazis' ideology of racial antisemitism. Johannes Wallmann argues that Luther's writings against the Jews were largely ignored in the 18th and 19th centuries, and that there is no continuity between Luther's thought and Nazi ideology. Uwe Siemon-Netto agrees, arguing that it was because the Nazis were already anti-Semites that they revived Luther's work. Hans J. Hillerbrand agrees that to focus on Luther is to adopt an essentially ahistorical perspective of Nazi antisemitism that ignores other contributory factors in German history."

References:

Brecht 3:351.

Johannes Wallmann, "The Reception of Luther's Writings on the Jews from the Reformation to the End of the 19th Century", Lutheran Quarterly, n.s. 1 (Spring 1987) 1:72-97.

Siemon-Netto, The Fabricated Luther, 17-20.

Siemon-Netto, "Luther and the Jews," Lutheran Witness 123 (2004) No. 4:19, 21.

Hillerbrand, Hans J. "Martin Luther," Encyclopaedia Britannica, 2007. Hillerbrand writes: "[H]is strident pronouncements against the Jews, especially toward the end of his life, have raised the question of whether Luther significantly encouraged the development of German anti-Semitism. Although many scholars have taken this view, this perspective puts far too much emphasis on Luther and not enough on the larger peculiarities of German history."

For similar views, see:
Bainton, Roland, 297;
Briese, Russell. "Martin Luther and the Jews," Lutheran Forum (Summer 2000):32;
Brecht, Martin Luther, 3:351;
Edwards, Mark U. Jr. Luther's Last Battles: Politics and Polemics 1531-46. Ithaca, NY: Cornell University Press, 1983, 139;
Gritsch, Eric. "Was Luther Anti-Semitic?", Christian History, No. 3:39, 12.;
Kittelson, James M., Luther the Reformer, 274;
Marius, Richard. Martin Luther, 377;
Oberman, Heiko. The Roots of Anti-Semitism: In the Age of Renaissance and Reformation. Philadelphia: Fortress, 1984, 102;
Rupp, Gordon. Martin Luther, 75;
Siemon-Netto, Uwe. Lutheran Witness, 19.

Herzlichen Dank, Herr Luther...

No entiendo un carriso lo que este carajo me esta diciendo de Martin Lutero.   

[Deicide]

That's highly debatable

"Martin Brecht argues that there is a world of difference between Luther's belief in salvation, which depended on a faith in Jesus as the messiah — a belief Luther criticized the Jews for rejecting — and the Nazis' ideology of racial antisemitism. Johannes Wallmann argues that Luther's writings against the Jews were largely ignored in the 18th and 19th centuries, and that there is no continuity between Luther's thought and Nazi ideology. Uwe Siemon-Netto agrees, arguing that it was because the Nazis were already anti-Semites that they revived Luther's work. Hans J. Hillerbrand agrees that to focus on Luther is to adopt an essentially ahistorical perspective of Nazi antisemitism that ignores other contributory factors in German history."

References:

Brecht 3:351.

Johannes Wallmann, "The Reception of Luther's Writings on the Jews from the Reformation to the End of the 19th Century", Lutheran Quarterly, n.s. 1 (Spring 1987) 1:72-97.

Siemon-Netto, The Fabricated Luther, 17-20.

Siemon-Netto, "Luther and the Jews," Lutheran Witness 123 (2004) No. 4:19, 21.

Hillerbrand, Hans J. "Martin Luther," Encyclopaedia Britannica, 2007. Hillerbrand writes: "[H]is strident pronouncements against the Jews, especially toward the end of his life, have raised the question of whether Luther significantly encouraged the development of German anti-Semitism. Although many scholars have taken this view, this perspective puts far too much emphasis on Luther and not enough on the larger peculiarities of German history."

For similar views, see:
Bainton, Roland, 297;
Briese, Russell. "Martin Luther and the Jews," Lutheran Forum (Summer 2000):32;
Brecht, Martin Luther, 3:351;
Edwards, Mark U. Jr. Luther's Last Battles: Politics and Polemics 1531-46. Ithaca, NY: Cornell University Press, 1983, 139;
Gritsch, Eric. "Was Luther Anti-Semitic?", Christian History, No. 3:39, 12.;
Kittelson, James M., Luther the Reformer, 274;
Marius, Richard. Martin Luther, 377;
Oberman, Heiko. The Roots of Anti-Semitism: In the Age of Renaissance and Reformation. Philadelphia: Fortress, 1984, 102;
Rupp, Gordon. Martin Luther, 75;
Siemon-Netto, Uwe. Lutheran Witness, 19.

No entiendo un carriso lo que este carajo me esta diciendo de Luther.

Of course there's a difference. I didn't say there wasn't. I merely said he laid the groundwork. He did burn down synagogues and books and said all kinds of nasty things about Jews. Of course as I said before he set the stage for the centuries long wars of religion...and he was an enemy of reason:

"Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but -- more frequently than not -- struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God."

"Reason should be destroyed in all Christians."

While I'm at it:

"The Jews are the most miserable people on earth. They are plagued everywhere, and scattered about all countries, having no certain resting place. They sit as on a wheelbarrow, without a country, people or government... but they are rightly served, for seeing they refused have Christ and his gospel, instead of freedom they must have servitude."

"Their synagogues ... should be set on fire."
"Their homes should be broken down and destroyed. They ought to be put under one roof or in a stable, like Gypsies, in order that they may realize that they ... are ... but miserable captives."

"They should be deprived of their prayerbooks and Talmuds."

"Their rabbis must be forbidden under threat of death to teach any more."

http://exchristian.net/exchristian/2002/04/martin-luther-quotes.php

Basically Luther was a huge dickhead and a fucking arsehole to wit...

[Deicide]

That's highly debatable

"Martin Brecht argues that there is a world of difference between Luther's belief in salvation, which depended on a faith in Jesus as the messiah — a belief Luther criticized the Jews for rejecting — and the Nazis' ideology of racial antisemitism. Johannes Wallmann argues that Luther's writings against the Jews were largely ignored in the 18th and 19th centuries, and that there is no continuity between Luther's thought and Nazi ideology. Uwe Siemon-Netto agrees, arguing that it was because the Nazis were already anti-Semites that they revived Luther's work. Hans J. Hillerbrand agrees that to focus on Luther is to adopt an essentially ahistorical perspective of Nazi antisemitism that ignores other contributory factors in German history."

References:

Brecht 3:351.

Johannes Wallmann, "The Reception of Luther's Writings on the Jews from the Reformation to the End of the 19th Century", Lutheran Quarterly, n.s. 1 (Spring 1987) 1:72-97.

Siemon-Netto, The Fabricated Luther, 17-20.

Siemon-Netto, "Luther and the Jews," Lutheran Witness 123 (2004) No. 4:19, 21.

Hillerbrand, Hans J. "Martin Luther," Encyclopaedia Britannica, 2007. Hillerbrand writes: "[H]is strident pronouncements against the Jews, especially toward the end of his life, have raised the question of whether Luther significantly encouraged the development of German anti-Semitism. Although many scholars have taken this view, this perspective puts far too much emphasis on Luther and not enough on the larger peculiarities of German history."

For similar views, see:
Bainton, Roland, 297;
Briese, Russell. "Martin Luther and the Jews," Lutheran Forum (Summer 2000):32;
Brecht, Martin Luther, 3:351;
Edwards, Mark U. Jr. Luther's Last Battles: Politics and Polemics 1531-46. Ithaca, NY: Cornell University Press, 1983, 139;
Gritsch, Eric. "Was Luther Anti-Semitic?", Christian History, No. 3:39, 12.;
Kittelson, James M., Luther the Reformer, 274;
Marius, Richard. Martin Luther, 377;
Oberman, Heiko. The Roots of Anti-Semitism: In the Age of Renaissance and Reformation. Philadelphia: Fortress, 1984, 102;
Rupp, Gordon. Martin Luther, 75;
Siemon-Netto, Uwe. Lutheran Witness, 19.

No entiendo un carriso lo que este carajo me esta diciendo de Martin Lutero.   

Forgot this one...

"If I had to baptise a Jew, I would take him to the bridge of the Elbe, hang a stone around his neck and push him over with the words 'I baptise thee in the name of Abraham'."

[loco]

Martin Luther was not an anti-semite.  He was at first very kind to the Jews, and the Jews loved him for challenging Roman Catholic Church rule, but then he got angry at them because they would not convert to Christianity.  Is that wrong?  Yes, very wrong, but he was no anti-semite.  Martin Luther never killed nor did he advocate killing Jews.  Martin Luther never burnt any synagogues.  Writing about those things and actually doing them are two different things.  He should have never written those things.

I won't defend Martin Luther.  He was not Jesus Christ, and I am not a Lutheran.  Luther was a fallible man who did and wrote many good things, but unfortunately he also wrote some very bad things.

I still thank Martin Luther for the good things that he did.  His theology challenged the authority of the pope and of the Roman Catholic Church, who had for hundreds of years ruled people's personal lives. 

His ideas helped to inspire the Protestant Reformation and changed the course of Western civilization. 

His translation of the Bible into the German vernacular, making it more accessible to ordinary people, had a tremendous impact on the church and on German culture. The translation also furthered the development of a standard version of the German language, added several principles to the art of translation, and influenced the translation of the English King James Bible.

And we can't now charge Martin Luther with laying down the groundwork for the Holocaust.  What, Hitler said "Martin made me do it"?

While we are at it, let's charge Darwin too for laying down the groundwork for the Holocaust, and for WWII for that matter, shall we?

“Hitler believed in struggle as a Darwinian principle of human life that forced every people to try to dominate all others; without struggle they would rot and perish … . Even in his own defeat in April 1945, Hitler expressed his faith in the survival of the stronger and declared the Slavic peoples to have proven themselves the stronger.”  Peter Hoffman, Hitler’s Personal Security (Oxford, UK: Pergamon Press, 1979), p. 264.

“To see evolutionary measures and tribal morality being applied vigorously to the affairs of a great modern nation, we must turn again to Germany of 1942. We see Hitler devoutly convinced that evolution produces the only real basis for a national policy … . The means he adopted to secure the destiny of his race and people were organized slaughter, which has drenched Europe in blood … . Such conduct is highly immoral as measured by every scale of ethics, yet Germany justifies it; it is consonant with tribal or evolutionary morality. Germany has reverted to the tribal past, and is demonstrating to the world, in their naked ferocity, the methods of evolution.” Sir Arthur Keith, Evolution and Ethics (New York: Putman, 1947), p. 28.

[Deicide]

Martin Luther was not an anti-semite.  He was at first very kind to the Jews, and the Jews loved him for challenging Roman Catholic Church rule, but then he got angry at them because they would not convert to Christianity.  Is that wrong?  Yes, very wrong, but he was no anti-semite.  Martin Luther never killed nor did he advocate killing Jews.  Martin Luther never burnt any synagogues.  Writing about those things and actually doing them are two different things.  He should have never written those things.

I won't defend Martin Luther.  He was not Jesus Christ, and I am not a Lutheran.  Luther was a fallible man who did and wrote many good things, but unfortunately he also wrote some very bad things.

I still thank Martin Luther for the good things that he did.  His theology challenged the authority of the pope and of the Roman Catholic Church, who had for hundreds of years ruled people's personal lives. 

His ideas helped to inspire the Protestant Reformation and changed the course of Western civilization. 

His translation of the Bible into the German vernacular, making it more accessible to ordinary people, had a tremendous impact on the church and on German culture. The translation also furthered the development of a standard version of the German language, added several principles to the art of translation, and influenced the translation of the English King James Bible.

And we can't now charge Martin Luther with laying down the groundwork for the Holocaust.  What, Hitler said "Martin made me do it"?

While we are at it, let's charge Darwin too for laying down the groundwork for the Holocaust, and for WWII for that matter, shall we?

“Hitler believed in struggle as a Darwinian principle of human life that forced every people to try to dominate all others; without struggle they would rot and perish … . Even in his own defeat in April 1945, Hitler expressed his faith in the survival of the stronger and declared the Slavic peoples to have proven themselves the stronger.”  Peter Hoffman, Hitler’s Personal Security (Oxford, UK: Pergamon Press, 1979), p. 264.

“To see evolutionary measures and tribal morality being applied vigorously to the affairs of a great modern nation, we must turn again to Germany of 1942. We see Hitler devoutly convinced that evolution produces the only real basis for a national policy … . The means he adopted to secure the destiny of his race and people were organized slaughter, which has drenched Europe in blood … . Such conduct is highly immoral as measured by every scale of ethics, yet Germany justifies it; it is consonant with tribal or evolutionary morality. Germany has reverted to the tribal past, and is demonstrating to the world, in their naked ferocity, the methods of evolution.” Sir Arthur Keith, Evolution and Ethics (New York: Putman, 1947), p. 28.

That's right. He helped inspire the Wars of Religion...bloody, intolerant, brutal, Catholic vs. Protestant...it's all crap....and he INSPIRED Hitler with his writings...inspired is the right word...

[loco]

That's right. He helped inspire the Wars of Religion...bloody, intolerant, brutal, Catholic vs. Protestant...it's all crap....and he INSPIRED Hitler with his writings...inspired is the right word...

No, the Roman Catholic Church inspired the Catholic vs. Everyone wars of religion.  After hundreds of years of tyranny by the Roman Catholic church on so many people in the world, of course people were tired, angry and were inspired to stand up and fight after they saw this little monk stand up to such a giant tyrant.  Martin Luther had nothing to do with the bloodshed and actually discouraged it. 

As for Hitler, Darwin inspired him.

[Deicide]

No, the Roman Catholic Church inspired the Catholic vs. Everyone wars of religion.  After hundreds of years of tyranny by the Roman Catholic church on so many people in the world, of course people were tired, angry and were inspired to stand up and fight after they saw this little monk stand up to such a giant tyrant.  Martin Luther had nothing to do with the bloodshed and actually discouraged it. 

As for Hitler, Darwin inspired him.

Hardly as much as your buddy Luther inspired him...

[loco]

Hardly as much as your buddy Luther inspired him...

Baseless claim.

[Deicide]

Baseless claim.

Remember, a good majority of scholars believe Luther to have been an inspiration to Hitler.

Darwin, whatever his 'inspiration', was writing about science and never wrote non-stop anti-semitic slurs..


Remember, Luther was an enemy of reason and as such a hero to those such as you...do I need to bring in the quotes again....?