knee problems and half reps

[local hero]

ive got an ongoing problem with my knee,, the tendon is loose and moves when right on the point of parralell,, on the british nhs they wont opperate on it as its still functual.. i can still squat but it gets aggrevated and pops loudly and gets more and more inflamed...

due to other injuries ive picked up in the past 2 yrs im giving up competing, but i wanna keep to a decent standard... would half rep quad work be of any use... from rock bottom to half way up or from straight to just above parralell,, ive always trained legs full ROM... anyone with knee issues got any advice how to make the best out of this?

[The Squadfather]

do what doesn't hurt man, seriously there's no reason to prove what a "warrior" you are by doing full ROM reps if your knees can't take, what do you have to prove to anyone, if it hurts don't do it.

[jpm101]

If it's a tendon (or maybe a floating kneecap?)  than that is the start of a bad tear/rupture and  can only get worse. It really does not have any other choice, if you keep testing it. When you hear a loud snap, feel a very sharp pain and see a knotting up or complete knee shaft from it's normal position, than you know that you have a complete rip of the tendon(s).  Not good. Recovery can take many month's with proper medical care.

Even quarter squats allow more negative stress that that knee will need, by just supporting a heavy weight. You would only be fooling yourself if your think not. Might try keeping off the squating for a extended period and try leg presses and other leg machines exercises. Though leg extensions could cause a problem. It will be up to your to see what exercise can be used without undo stress on the knee.

Rehab centers have leg machines where the resistance is placed behind the knee's. Something like the original leg/hip Nautilus  machines. The stress is reduce greatly on the knee's themselves. Ideal for BB'ers who would want a complete leg workout with less knee involvement. Do not know why a lot of gym's do not have these style machines, when knee's are a major concern for many BB'ers.

The British NHS (National Health System ?) does have it's flaws. They have that sort of system in Canada. This forces quite a few Canadians, who need major medical care right away, to cross the US border to have their work done. Though the America system is far from perfect, it does have many benefits over most forms of socialized health care. Though medical drugs are much cheaper in Canada. Good Luck.

[pumpster]

If it gets any worse then you'll have to take a break and address the injury. If not, half reps can be very effective, sometimes as good or better than full reps.

[jpm101]

Just wondering. Why would, with a bad knee, a half squat be sometimes(?) as good or better than full reps? Let's be real here. The concerned gentleman will need a corrective operation (major or minor) soon or later on that knee. Good Luck.

[pjs]

Doing squats with less than a full range of motion can actually put more stress on the knee.  Suggesting otherwise is irresponsible and dangerous.

My suggestion would be to stop squatting until you can squat properly, and find a way to get it healed.  If the government won't pay for it, you still can, right?

[Geo]

Doing squats with less than a full range of motion can actually put more stress on the knee. 

that's kind of what I was thinking

[AVBG]

Doing squats with less than a full range of motion can actually put more stress on the knee.  Suggesting otherwise is irresponsible and dangerous.

My suggestion would be to stop squatting until you can squat properly, and find a way to get it healed.  If the government won't pay for it, you still can, right?

good advice

[pumpster]

Doing squats with less than a full range of motion can actually put more stress on the knee.  Suggesting otherwise is irresponsible and dangerous.

The operative word there is can, which is basically saying maybe. Nothing more irresponsible than to make assumptions or try to speak for the author of the thread.

What is more certain is that for him to ask about partials it's pretty obvious they're easier on his bod than full reps.

Common sense to cease and desist from training if the situation gets worse, that's already been mentioned.

[pjs]

The operative word there is can, which is basically saying maybe. Nothing more irresponsible than to make assumptions or try to speak for the author of the thread.

What is more certain is that for him to ask about partials it's pretty obvious they're easier on his bod than full reps.

Common sense to cease and desist from training if the situation gets worse, that's already been mentioned.

You really have no business giving anyone advice.  As I said, partials can create MORE stress on the joints, so your advice could cause significant harm if he has an injury.

[local hero]

payin to get it done would be a last resort, as i already contribute a part  of my wage in taxes to pay for the nhs in the 1st case.. and im not exactly well off to pay for somthing like that..

leg extensions and light half rep leg presses will have to do...if it gets to bad, i'll just have to give up on them and just go for bigger claves or somthing,, i have found that the stair master doesnt bother it, might be able to keep some sort of size just from using that.

thanx for the advice anyways..

[heavyNbasic]

Give a few more details on the knee problem.  What tendon are you talking about?  There's many in the knee.  The parallel position of the squat is the point at which the greatest amount of pressure is on the patella (knee cap).  If it's a patella tracking problem, parallel squats will def cause a problem.  If not now, it'll start as soon as the cartilage begins to wear away on femur and/or underside of patella. 

Shallow squats (approx. 30 +/- degress of flexion) are good if you can do them pain free.  Despite the bad wrap they get from some, leg extensions are a great quad builder.  It's probably going too heavy that causes the problems for some people.  Go moderate weight, and flex at top for quite a while (3-10 seconds, or longer).  You can get a great leg workout without squats or leg presses.  It may take a while longer though, as you'll have to do more movements in the form of isolation work that will hit the muscles that squats/leg presses also worked i.e.) adductors/abductors, glutes, TFL, etc.  You can get a good leg workout w/o putting excessive stress on the knee.  I also like good mornings, stiff leg deads,  partial sumo smith squats.  Knees farther out also put less stress on the knee.  Good advice from others regarding avoiding whatever movements cause the wrong kind of pain.

Where is the pain/inflammation?  What other activities bother your knee?...walking/running/stairs?  Do you stretch your lower body regularly?  Any grinding sound/feel in the knee joint? 

Not an expert.  I used to love squatting deep, but can't do it now.  A knee issues caused me to educate myself about the knee joint, and make (still trying various things) adjustements that work for me.

[Cerberus2k7]

I have dislocated my knee cap a good 8-10 times and have had a surgery with some progress, but it dislocated again.  I still do full squats, but I wear a knee brace with hinges now.  You might check to see if a lateral release might benefit you.  It's a minor surgery and will cause you to be out for about 3 weeks and you wont be able to do any real heavy lifting for another month or so, but it solved a majority of my dislocations as well as my ticking.

[local hero]

the doc didnt name the tendon,,, i'll have to look it up,, its on the outside of the knee, feels like at the bottom of the outer quads...

my legs have got a little size and shape back just from high rep extensions and cardio, played around with half rep v squats and they felt ok long as i didnt go too deep...

I'll never get that opp unless i come into money or i fuck it all together

[Bodvar]

So the British NHS won't operate on your knee because it is not completely fucked; wonderful. I can't wait until we get that system here in America.

Anyway, I had knee problems myself for years, it hurt for me to walk up the stairs. If you haven't already, then start taking some kind of Glucosamine Chondroitin supplement, it works wonders.

Another thing you might want to look at is your calf and hamstring flexibility, if they are tight it can cause all kinds of imbalances in your knee.

Also if you don't have any neoprene knee sleeves I'd advise you to get some, they make a big difference.

Changing my squat stance was a big factor in fixing my knee. A wide stance takes a lot of stress off the knee. To this day I can't do a full Olympic squat, front squat, lunge, leg press, or hack squat, without pain. But I can squat well over 200kg with a wide stance without it hurting.

There are a lot of things you can do to help a bum knee, surgery should be a LAST resort.

[local hero]

ive been takin 2000mg of glucosomine for the last 6 month, helped with my elbows and other niggles ive had,... i might venture back to moderate squats with a wide stance, knee wrapped in a few months, goin to try and plod on with what im doin until i feel confident enough and my quads have grown a bit more to there old size..