Author Topic: Lying for Jesus (Attn loco)  (Read 1245 times)

columbusdude82

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Lying for Jesus (Attn loco)
« on: April 18, 2008, 08:26:15 AM »
Also from Scientific American.

Six Things in Expelled That Ben Stein Doesn't Want You to Know...
...about intelligent design and evolution

By John Rennie and Steve Mirsky

In the film Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, narrator Ben Stein poses as a "rebel" willing to stand up to the scientific establishment in defense of freedom and honest, open discussion of controversial ideas like intelligent design (ID). But Expelled has some problems of its own with honest, open presentations of the facts about evolution, ID—and with its own agenda. Here are a few examples—add your own with a comment, and we may add it to another draft of this story. For our complete coverage, see "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed—Scientific American's Take.

1) Expelled quotes Charles Darwin selectively to connect his ideas to eugenics and the Holocaust.
When the film is building its case that Darwin and the theory of evolution bear some responsibility for the Holocaust, Ben Stein's narration quotes from Darwin's The Descent of Man thusly:

With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated. We civilized men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination. We build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed and the sick. Thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. Hardly anyone is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.

This is how the original passage in The Descent of Man reads (unquoted sections emphasized in italics):

With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilized men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination. We build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly anyone is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.

The producers of the film did not mention the very next sentences in the book (emphasis added in italics):

The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, even at the urging of hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature. The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil.

Darwin explicitly rejected the idea of eliminating the "weak" as dehumanizing and evil. Those words falsify Expelled's argument. The filmmakers had to be aware of the full Darwin passage, but they chose to quote only the sections that suited their purposes.

2) Ben Stein's speech to a crowded auditorium in the film was a setup.
"Viewers of Expelled might think that Ben Stein has been giving speeches on college campuses and at other public venues in support of ID and against "big science." But if he has, the producers did not include one. The speech shown at the beginning and end was staged solely for the sake of the movie. Michael Shermer learned as much by speaking to officials at Pepperdine University, where those scenes were filmed. Only a few of the audience members were students; most were extras brought in by the producers. Judge the ovation Ben Stein receives accordingly.

3) Scientists in the film thought they were being interviewed for a different movie.
As Richard Dawkins, PZ Myers, Eugenie Scott, Michael Shermer and other proponents of evolution appearing in Expelled have publicly remarked, the producers first arranged to interview them for a film that was to be called Crossroads, which was allegedly a documentary on "the intersection of science and religion." They were subsequently surprised to learn that they were appearing in Expelled, which "exposes the widespread persecution of scientists and educators who are pursuing legitimate, opposing scientific views to the reigning orthodoxy," to quote from the film's press kit.

When exactly did Crossroads become Expelled? The producers have said that the shift in the film's title and message occurred after the interviews with the scientists, as the accumulating evidence gradually persuaded them that ID believers were oppressed. Yet as blogger Wesley Elsberry discovered when he searched domain registrations, the producers registered the URL "expelledthemovie.com" on March 1, 2007—more than a month (and in some cases, several months) before the scientists were interviewed. The producers never registered the URL "crossroadsthemovie.com". Those facts raise doubt that Crossroads was still the working title for the movie when the scientists were interviewed.

4) The ID-sympathetic researcher whom the film paints as having lost his job at the Smithsonian Institution was never an employee there.
One section of Expelled relates the case of Richard Sternberg, who was a researcher at the Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of Natural History and editor of the journal Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington. According to the film, after Sternberg approved the publication of a pro-ID paper by Stephen C. Meyer of the Discovery Institute, he lost his editorship, was demoted at the Smithsonian, was moved to a more remote office, and suffered other professional setbacks. The film mentions a 2006 House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform report prepared for Rep. Mark Souder (R–Ind.), "Intolerance and the Politicization of Science at the Smithsonian," that denounced Sternberg's mistreatment.

This selective retelling of the Sternberg affair omits details that are awkward for the movie's case, however. Sternberg was never an employee of the Smithsonian: his term as a research associate always had a limited duration, and when it ended he was offered a new position as a research collaborator. As editor, Sternberg's decision to "peer-review" and approve Meyer's paper by himself was highly questionable on several grounds, which was why the scientific society that published the journal later repudiated it. Sternberg had always been planning to step down as the journal's editor—the issue in which he published the paper was already scheduled to be his last.

The report prepared by Rep. Souder, who had previously expressed pro-ID views, was never officially accepted into the Congressional Record. Notwithstanding the report's conclusions, its appendix contains copies of e-mails and other documents in which Sternberg's superiors and others specifically argued against penalizing him for his ID views. (More detailed descriptions of the Sternberg case can be found on Ed Brayton's blog Dispatches from the Culture Wars and on Wikipedia.)

5) Science does not reject religious or "design-based" explanations because of dogmatic atheism.
Expelled frequently repeats that design-based explanations (not to mention religious ones) are "forbidden" by "big science." It never explains why, however. Evolution and the rest of "big science" are just described as having an atheistic preference.

Actually, science avoids design explanations for natural phenomena out of logical necessity. The scientific method involves rigorously observing and experimenting on the material world. It accepts as evidence only what can be measured or otherwise empirically validated (a requirement called methodological naturalism). That requirement prevents scientific theories from becoming untestable and overcomplicated.

By those standards, design-based explanations rapidly lose their rigor without independent scientific proof that validates and defines the nature of the designer. Without it, design-based explanations rapidly become unhelpful and tautological: "This looks like it was designed, so there must be a designer; we know there is a designer because this looks designed."

A major scientific problem with proposed ID explanations for life is that their proponents cannot suggest any good way to disprove them. ID "theories" are so vague that even if specific explanations are disproved, believers can simply search for new signs of design. Consequently, investigators do not generally consider ID to be a productive or useful approach to science.

6) Many evolutionary biologists are religious and many religious people accept evolution.
Expelled includes many clips of scientists such as Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, William Provine and PZ Myers who are also well known as atheists. They talk about how their knowledge of science confirms their convictions and how in some cases science led them to atheism. And indeed, surveys do indicate that atheism is more common among scientists than in the general population.

Nevertheless, the film is wrong to imply that understanding of evolution inevitably or necessarily leads to a rejection of religious belief. Francisco Ayala of the University of California, Irvine, a leading neuroscientist who used to be a Dominican priest, continues to be a devout Catholic, as does the evolutionary biologist Ken Miller of Brown University. Thousands of other biologists across the U.S. who all know evolution to be true are also still religious. Moreover, billions of other people around the world simultaneously accept evolution and keep faith with their religion. The late Pope John Paul II said that evolution was compatible with Roman Catholicism as an explanation for mankind's physical origins.

During Scientific American's post-screening conversation with Expelled associate producer Mark Mathis, we asked him why Ken Miller was not included in the film. Mathis explained that his presence would have "confused" viewers. But the reality is that showing Miller would have invalidated the film's major premise that evolutionary biologists all reject God.

Inside and outside the scientific community, people will no doubt continue to debate rationalism and religion and disagree about who has the better part of that argument. Evidence from evolution will probably remain at most a small part of that conflict, however.

columbusdude82

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Re: Lying for Jesus (Attn loco)
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2008, 08:32:28 AM »
From the Guardian:

Devoid of intelligence
Adam Rutherford

April 15, 2008 9:00 AM

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/adam_rutherford/2008/04/devoid_of_intelligence.html

Why won't intelligent design just go away? This week sees the US release of Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, a documentary film that attacks the theory of evolution. As suggested by its subtitle it berates the rejection by the scientific community of intelligent design - the mock-science creationism that was banished from US science classrooms in 2005 and in the UK last year.

For those of us who follow the often irritable interaction between creationists and those of a more rational disposition, Expelled first entered our consciousness when it emerged that vocal critics of creationism, including Richard Dawkins and the brilliantly caustic science blogger P Z Myers, had been conned into giving interviews last year. They had been booked to appear in a film about the intersection of science and religion, not creationist propaganda. From the word go, the film-makers demonstrated their dishonesty.

I have not seen Expelled. However, there is a wealth of clips and information available on the web. The trailer and reviews - including one by Dawkins, who slipped into a screening undetected - P Z Myers, who had invited him, was booted out of the queue by security - indicate that Expelled suggests the holocaust was a direct result of Darwinian thought. This absurdity is the cinematic debut of a rhetorical device all too familiar to Cif regulars - reductio ad Hitlerum. As with all creationist arguments, it is specious and simplistic. Whether Darwinian thought influenced Hitler is unclear, but here's one pretty solid reason why this claim is plain daft: murderous persecution of the Jews predates the theory of evolution by a couple of millennia.

Expelled is fronted by a minor American celebrity called Ben Stein, whose bragging rights include being a speech writer for that crook Richard Nixon. The film's 10 minute preview concludes with a play on what he is probably best known for, a small role in the 1986 high school comedy Ferris Bueller's Day Off. His soporific teacher drones on at a bored economics class, trying to engage the drooling students by repeating "Anyone? Anyone?". Although I am fond of this movie, and Stein's lines are funny and quotable, there's more than a little desperation in making such a lame reference. But then this typifies many of the arguments put forward by creationism: weak and desperately out of date.

Conspiracy is the latest weapon in the creationist's arsenal. Stein makes a big play of the alleged shunning of supporters of intelligent design by scientists, whom he perplexingly refers to as "big science". The trailer introduces a conspiracy theory laden with paranoia about the suppression of pioneering researchers who dare to question Darwin. It's no great revelation to say that the journal I work for, Nature, is a pillar of the science establishment, and yes, we have unequivocally rejected intelligent design and other forms of creationism as valid explanations for the origin of species. As with so many conspiracy theories, any analysis beyond the most superficial reveals that there is no conspiracy. But then, I would say that, wouldn't I?

It now seems unlikely that a theory will ever emerge which could completely replace Darwin's theory of evolution. But should that happen, scientists would be committed to investigating it fully. Intelligent design is emphatically not that theory, as it has systematically failed to stand up to any scrutiny. But, like a turd in the u-bend, it just won't go away.

What are we doing wrong? Legislation says intelligent design is balls. The entire scientific community say it's balls. How do we get rid of its lingering odour? Systematically refuting its pseudoscientific claims is futile. It's time to acknowledge that even though the facts of evolution are freely available, no amount of repeating them will counter the belief inherent in intelligent design.

It is very easy to mock things of little value, harder to mock those of any worth, but is ridicule a useful way to combat the resistible rise of creationism? I'm certainly guilty of this. But derision can make us look supercilious and sneering. The danger is that it opens the door wider for creationists who want to create martyrs and appeal to moderates who are ignorant of the robustness of evolutionary theory. And indeed, Expelled does make martyrs out of, for example, Guillermo Gonzalez, whom I have criticised on these pages, a supporter of intelligent design denied tenure at his university not because of his religious stance as the creationists claim, but for performance reasons. Fortunately, the cavalry have arrived right on cue in the form of the US national centre for science education and its head - Eugenie Scott - herself another duped contributor to Expelled. They have launched Expelled Exposed, a counter-offensive website which tells more honest stories behind these so-called martyrs.

So why give Expelled the coverage that the makers so clearly crave? Is engaging the wrong thing to do? Millions of words have already been written about it on the web. One reason to not engage is that it implies that there is a debate to be had. In scientific terms, there just isn't.

But creationism is persuasive because it's easy to follow. You don't have to think too hard when the answer is "God did it". Furthermore, at the heart of Expelled's fatuous arguments are human stories: martyrs, conspiracies, repression, Nazis. Scientists intuitively focus on the cold evidence. Maybe this is not an effective counter-tactic.

Another good reason to be cautious is that the film is being publicised by Motive Marketing, who were also the driving force behind Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ. They helped whip up grass-roots enthusiasm for this visceral film by offering free screenings in churches around the US. By the time it opened there was a frenzy of religious support for a gruesome but otherwise pedestrian movie. The Passion of the Christ is now the 11th biggest grossing film of all time.

Ben Stein is no Mel Gibson. Dawkins' review suggests that the film is so unimaginative, poorly argued and generally crappy that it will vanish from cinemas in a heartbeat. Even Fox News, not celebrated for its impartiality on matters concerning conservative Christianity, has impressively trashed Expelled. By most accounts, it's intellectually dishonest, badly made, and its makers deceitful.

If Expelled is indeed as bad as it is wrong it will do damage to the cause of creationism, and it will become another entry in the catalogue of failed creationist propaganda. Until then, we need to think hard about explaining to people not why creationism is wrong, but why science matters.

loco

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Re: Lying for Jesus (Attn loco)
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2008, 08:40:00 AM »
Lying for who?  Ben Stein is a Christian?  I thought that he was a secular Jew.

columbusdude82

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Re: Lying for Jesus (Attn loco)
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2008, 08:42:39 AM »
Lying for who?  Ben Stein is a Christian?  I thought that he was a secular Jew.

Quit being so coy, loco ;)

You know this film is a piece of propaganda from a creationist mouthpiece, being pre-screened to Christian churches, and hailed by creationists on the web and elsewhere. Furthermore, you know you read about it and got your information about it which you posted on your other thread from Christian websites.

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Re: Lying for Jesus (Attn loco)
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2008, 08:45:18 AM »
lol

loco

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Re: Lying for Jesus (Attn loco)
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2008, 08:52:10 AM »
Quit being so coy, loco ;)

You know this film is a piece of propaganda from a creationist mouthpiece, being pre-screened to Christian churches, and hailed by creationists on the web and elsewhere. Furthermore, you know you read about it and got your information about it which you posted on your other thread from Christian websites.

Well, please allow me go watch it first and see for myself if it's a piece of propaganda from a creationist mouthpiece.  Forgive me if I just don't take your word for it, since you have not even seen it either.  Why did Richard Dawkins go out of his way to go see it?  He lied about his name to sneak into a private viewing.  I admit, all the controversy just makes me want to go see it even more.

columbusdude82

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Re: Lying for Jesus (Attn loco)
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2008, 09:00:15 AM »
Well, please allow me go watch it first and see for myself if it's a piece of propaganda from a creationist mouthpiece.  Forgive me if I just don't take your word for it, since you have not even seen it either.  Why did Richard Dawkins go out of his way to go see it?  He lied about his name to sneak into a private viewing.  I admit, all the controversy just makes me want to go see it even more.

He did not lie about his name. At any rate, "Clinton" is his middle name. Like I said, read the review on his site.

Please do go see it, and write us an honest review. I'd really be interested to hear what you have to say.

Warning: If you don't know who Ben Stein is, he has THE MOST ANNOYING, DRONING VOICE EVER!!! That alone may make you want to leave the movie after 5 minutes.

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Re: Lying for Jesus (Attn loco)
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2008, 09:07:01 AM »
You would think that the staring subjects of a film would be invited to the screening, since that's usually the norm. I guess when you obtain your subjects through lies and unscrupulous means during filming, you don't offer them red carpet treatment afterward.

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Re: Lying for Jesus (Attn loco)
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2008, 09:12:29 AM »
He did not lie about his name. At any rate, "Clinton" is his middle name. Like I said, read the review on his site.

Please do go see it, and write us an honest review. I'd really be interested to hear what you have to say.

Warning: If you don't know who Ben Stein is, he has THE MOST ANNOYING, DRONING VOICE EVER!!! That alone may make you want to leave the movie after 5 minutes.

Either way, he went to see it.  Why don't you go see you and write us a review? 

Oh, and now every time Richard Dawkins hangs himself with his own words in an interview he is going to claim that they lied to him about what the interview was for?  He has done that before.  You would think if that is really what happened that a smart man like him would not fall for that again.

columbusdude82

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Re: Lying for Jesus (Attn loco)
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2008, 09:18:18 AM »
Either way, he went to see it.  Why don't you go see you and write us a review? 

I can't stand Ben Stein's voice. I really can't. When he comes on TV I immediately reach for the mute button. I might go if I find cheap or free student tickets. No way in hell I will pay full price to hear Ben Stein!

Quote
Oh, and now every time Richard Dawkins hangs himself with his own words in an interview he is going to claim that they lied to him about what the interview was for?  He has done that before.  You would think if that is really what happened that a smart man like him would not fall for that again.

Like I said, read his review. He really was deceived into talking to the producers, as were the other scientists in it.

I am telling you man: if this is the best that creationism can do in this day and age, then it really is a sinking ship!

columbusdude82

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Re: Lying for Jesus (Attn loco)
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2008, 09:23:17 AM »
StarTribune.com
Movie review: Propaganda piece "Expelled" flunks

April 17, 2008

1/2 out of four stars

Unrated; includes concentration camp footage

According to "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed," the source of all evil in the modern world is Darwinism, a philosophy that, the film posits, is responsible for everything from atheism to abortion, euthanasia to the Holocaust.

A hard-core, fundamentalist bit of right-wing propaganda, "Expelled" slyly appropriates its style from liberal and left-wing sources, sending Ben Stein out to do deadpan interviews of a grab-bag of experts and wack jobs, while intercutting old movies, new animation and newsreel footage.

Typical of all propaganda, it also distorts language. The narration talks of "Darwinism" -- not evolution -- to make it sound like a dangerously secular cult; creationism is replaced by the more scientific-sounding "intelligent design." After an hour and a half, my faith in Darwin was shaken because, judging by what was on screen, we haven't evolved one blessed bit.

STEPHEN WHITTY,

NEWHOUSE NEWS SERVICE