The Price of Unbelief...

[Deicide]

Daniel Everett is a famous linguist who has challenged Chomskian ideas about syntax, particularly the idea of recursivity, i.e. within their grammatical framework all languages have the potential for infinite production through embedding. This is not particularly interesting to most here but the fact that he lost his faith and was divorced by his then wife and his children broke off contact with him says a lot.

Influenced by the Pirahã's concept of truth, he slowly lost his Christian faith and became an atheist. He says that he was having serious doubts by 1982, and had lost all faith by 1985 after having spent a year at MIT. He would not tell anyone about his atheism for another 19 years; when he finally did, his marriage ended in divorce and two of his three children broke off all contact.

Just shows you how bad Christians are; imagine, you divorce your husband and then two of your children announce that they want nothing to do with you...because you lost your faith. Insane.

[loco]

Daniel Everett is a famous linguist who has challenged Chomskian ideas about syntax, particularly the idea of recursivity, i.e. within their grammatical framework all languages have the potential for infinite production through embedding. This is not particularly interesting to most here but the fact that he lost his faith and was divorced by his then wife and his children broke off contact with him says a lot.

Just shows you how bad Christians are; imagine, you divorce your husband and then two of your children announce that they want nothing to do with you...because you lost your faith. Insane.

Just shows you how bad Christians are?  So now all Christians are bad just because of what this man's wife and kids did?   

[MCWAY]

And, you're going to tell us that you would stay with your girlfriend/wife, if she became a Christian while you were together?

[Deicide]

And, you're going to tell us that you would stay with your girlfriend/wife, if she became a Christian while you were together?

If she kept it to herself and didn't insist on me going along to church, probably. Though admittedly it would be tough. Then again, I am a nobody. Everett is a well known academic and has accomplished much. His children and ex-wife must be fanatics.

[Butterbean]

"He would not tell anyone about his atheism for another 19 years; when he finally did, his marriage ended in divorce and two of his three children broke off all contact."


---Are you concluding that the only reason for the divorce/breaking off of contact is that he told his wife and kids that he was atheist?   

If she kept it to herself and didn't insist on me going along to church, probably. Though admittedly it would be tough. Then again, I am a nobody. Everett is a well known academic and has accomplished much. His children and ex-wife must be fanatics.

First, you are not a nobody. 

But are you saying that most women would stay w/a man because he had accomplished much?  I just don't think that is true.  There are many well-accomplished divorced men.  No one on the outside can know all of the intricacies and hardships w/in a marriage. 

And if his wife (and children) truly left him soley on the belief that the guy was atheist, they are not following what the bible teaches anyway.

[MCWAY]

If she kept it to herself and didn't insist on me going along to church, probably. Though admittedly it would be tough. Then again, I am a nobody. Everett is a well known academic and has accomplished much. His children and ex-wife must be fanatics.

Christians dont keep it to themselves. Their lifestyle is (or should be) a reflection of their faith. What happens when she wants to have morning or evening worship? What about tithing?

Then, there's the issue of kids. You're really going to co-exist in a household in which you belittle the Christian faith, while your wife wants to pass those values to your children? You're going to stay home, while the Mrs. and the little ones are at Sunday School and church? And speaking of school, what happens should she feel that the children are better served attending a private (religious) school?

Those are things you'd REALLY have to consider. But, it's worth noting that Lee Strobel (author of the "The Case for Christ, and one of Loco's favorites) is an atheist-turned-Christian, whose conversion started when his wife became a Christian, after several Bible studies and interactions with their neighbors. Ironically enough, Strobel said almost EXACTLY the same thing you just did, with regards to ("as long as she keeps it to herself").

[Butterbean]

Lee Strobel

I was just leafing through "The Case for a Creator." 

I wonder if people here would be willing to read/discuss that book?  We would have some great discussions

[Naked4Jesus]

Just shows you how bad Christians are?  So now all Christians are bad just because of what this man's wife and kids did?   

You're right and in this case Daniel Everett is but a mere straw man.  It's unfortunate that he lost his family because he came to his senses but it doesn't refute the existance of a god in any way; neither does the implied self righteous  nature of christianity.   Even if Christians eat live babies it wouldn't mean that a god doesn't exist though I would imagine it does go to show you the lack of accountability that god must exude to have allowed it. 

It's also an ad hominem since it attacks christians specifically rather than their belief system.

[Deicide]

You're right and in this case Daniel Everett is but a mere straw man.  It's unfortunate that he lost his family because he came to his senses but it doesn't refute the existance of a god in any way; neither does the implied self righteous  nature of christianity.   Even if Christians eat live babies it wouldn't mean that a god doesn't exist though I would imagine it does go to show you the lack of accountability that god must exude to have allowed it. 

It's also an ad hominem since it attacks christians specifically rather than their belief system.

Their belief system is idiotic as well. Satisfied?

[Deicide]

"He would not tell anyone about his atheism for another 19 years; when he finally did, his marriage ended in divorce and two of his three children broke off all contact."


---Are you concluding that the only reason for the divorce/breaking off of contact is that he told his wife and kids that he was atheist?   




First, you are not a nobody. 

But are you saying that most women would stay w/a man because he had accomplished much?  I just don't think that is true.  There are many well-accomplished divorced men.  No one on the outside can know all of the intricacies and hardships w/in a marriage. 

And if his wife (and children) truly left him soley on the belief that the guy was atheist, they are not following what the bible teaches anyway.

Well...there seems no other reason for his children to suddenly disherit him. Divorce might be trickier but cutting off all ties from your parent is something else.

No body follows what the Bible teaches/everyone follows what the Bible teaches. 

[Deicide]

Christians dont keep it to themselves. Their lifestyle is (or should be) a reflection of their faith. What happens when she wants to have morning or evening worship? What about tithing?

Then, there's the issue of kids. You're really going to co-exist in a household in which you belittle the Christian faith, while your wife wants to pass those values to your children? You're going to stay home, while the Mrs. and the little ones are at Sunday School and church? And speaking of school, what happens should she feel that the children are better served attending a private (religious) school?

Those are things you'd REALLY have to consider. But, it's worth noting that Lee Strobel (author of the "The Case for Christ, and one of Loco's favorites) is an atheist-turned-Christian, whose conversion started when his wife became a Christian, after several Bible studies and interactions with their neighbors. Ironically enough, Strobel said almost EXACTLY the same thing you just did, with regards to ("as long as she keeps it to herself").

I am not sure what you are trying to get at. As Loco has noted I am a very consistent atheist. I have never been a believer and am fairly sure (99.99%) that I won't become one. MCWAY, it is safe to say I would never, ever be involved with that kind of woman. It simply wouldn't happen. I don't belittle the Christian faith, though I do think it's idiotic, it is totally irrelevant to me. In such a household religion would simply be a non-factor. If I had children who were interested in the Bible I would let them look at it and ask the question if its claims are supported by solid evidence (which they are not). It's very much an imaginary situation as it wouldn't happen to me. In such an imaginary situation, it could come to blows though. Someone actively telling my DNA that magic fairy tales are true would certainly arouse my ire and as I said I can't imagine being involved with such a person.

[Naked4Jesus]

Their belief system is idiotic as well. Satisfied?

Much better!   

[MCWAY]

I am not sure what you are trying to get at. As Loco has noted I am a very consistent atheist. I have never been a believer and am fairly sure (99.99%) that I won't become one. MCWAY, it is safe to say I would never, ever be involved with that kind of woman. It simply wouldn't happen. I don't belittle the Christian faith, though I do think it's idiotic, it is totally irrelevant to me. In such a household religion would simply be a non-factor. If I had children who were interested in the Bible I would let them look at it and ask the question if its claims are supported by solid evidence (which they are not). It's very much an imaginary situation as it wouldn't happen to me. In such an imaginary situation, it could come to blows though. Someone actively telling my DNA that magic fairy tales are true would certainly arouse my ire and as I said I can't imagine being involved with such a person.

That isn't an "imaginary" situation, which is why I used Lee Strobel as an example. As I understand it (and correct me if I'm wrong, Loco), the Strobels weren't Christians, when they got married. Strobel's wife became a Christian and eventually so did he. But, Strobel mentioned some of the strife that was in their household, due to her becoming a Christian, while he was still an atheist.

How can you say you don't "belittle" the Christian faith, while simultaneously claiming that someone (especially your wife) would arouse your ire, should she teach your children (not "DNA") Christian values and want them to be in the faith? That makes no sense.

As a married man, I can tell you firsthand that there are a LOT of things that have happened to me, which when I, when single,  swore up and down wouldn't happen.

[loco]

That isn't an "imaginary" situation, which is why I used Lee Strobel as an example. As I understand it (and correct me if I'm wrong, Loco), the Strobels weren't Christians, when they got married. Strobel's wife became a Christian and eventually so did he. But, Strobel mentioned some of the strife that was in their household, due to her becoming a Christian, while he was still an atheist.

That is correct MCWAY! 

[big L dawg]

god did not create man it's the other way around.

[Oldschool Flip]

You can be an unbeliever and be happy IMO. I have a great wife and child, no money problems, no health problems, am liked by people I work around and look forward to everyday. When problems arise, I don't need faith in a deity, I rely on what I can do to fix it.

And I'm sure I've shocked a lot of people, who think because I am a nice guy, that I am not religious. That all atheists are cruel and mean. Lol, we're just skeptical of unproven stories. Deities are part of EVERY CULTURE in sone form and it boggles my mind that Christians can't believe that God can be just as much a fairy tale as they believe that Pele (Hawaiian Goddess) or any other deity is.

[loco]

You can be an unbeliever and be happy IMO. I have a great wife and child, no money problems, no health problems, am liked by people I work around and look forward to everyday. When problems arise, I don't need faith in a deity, I rely on what I can do to fix it.

Good for you, Oldschool Flip!  So your happiness if based on those things and those people you listed?

So what do you do if/when, God forbid, those things and those people are taken away from you?  What do you do when there is nothing you can do to fix it, what do you rely on then?

[Naked4Jesus]

Why do you think you discuss it so much if you truly feel it is totally irrelevant to you? 

Why do atheists care about religion?  >>> 

[Oldschool Flip]

Good for you, Oldschool Flip!  So your happiness if based on those things and those people you listed?

So what do you do if/when, God forbid, those things and those people are taken away from you?  What do you do when there is nothing you can do to fix it, what do you rely on then?

Hmmmmmm, well let's see I've never had that problem. Every problem that's come my way has been fixable. I'd still rely on myself of course, but I wouldn't lean on an unseen deity. I'd rely on my family and close friends for support.

And happiness means different things to different people. I've known Ozmo for over 20 years and he can attest that when we worked together all I cared about was money and sex. Over the years I've not made money a big part of my life (that's why I'm a stay at home dad), and family and close friends are more important. I guess what would make it almost perfect is to be a 4 seat season ticket holder to 49er games!

[big L dawg]

Why do atheists care about religion?  >>> 

Exactly.you beat me to it.

[D-bol]

as soon as people loose their brain they find faith...

[MCWAY]

Daniel Everett is a famous linguist who has challenged Chomskian ideas about syntax, particularly the idea of recursivity, i.e. within their grammatical framework all languages have the potential for infinite production through embedding. This is not particularly interesting to most here but the fact that he lost his faith and was divorced by his then wife and his children broke off contact with him says a lot.

Just shows you how bad Christians are; imagine, you divorce your husband and then two of your children announce that they want nothing to do with you...because you lost your faith. Insane.

No more insane than Madalyn Murray O'Hair, one of the most avid atheists in American history, disowning her son, William, when he became a Christian. She referred to her dismissal as a "postnatal abortion".