Teachers with guns save lives in Pakistani university attack

[tonymctones]

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0UZ232

I know people will want to make this about politics but think about it logically, in the event of an active shooter would you rather be armed or not?

CHARSADDA, Pakistan/ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Stuck with 15 of his students on a third floor balcony of a campus building as gunmen came up the stairs, university director Mohammad Shakil urged Pakistani police arriving at the scene to toss him up a gun so he could shoot back.

"We were hiding ... but were unarmed," Shakil told Reuters, speaking after four Islamist militants attacked Bacha Khan University in Pakistan's troubled northwest on Wednesday, killing more than 20 people.

"I was worried about the students, and then one of the militants came after us," Shakil added. "After repeated requests, the police threw me a pistol and I fired some shots at the terrorists."

As more details of Wednesday's assault emerged, attention focused on at least two members of staff who took up arms to resist attackers bent on killing them and their students.

Some hailed them as heroes, as the country digested an attack which bore similarities to the massacre, in late 2014, of 134 pupils at an army-run school in Peshawar, about 30 km (19 miles) from where this week's violence occurred.


Others questioned whether teachers should be armed, as many are, because it goes against the ideals of the profession.

Such a dilemma may have been far from the mind of chemistry professor Hamid Hussain, as he locked himself inside a room with colleagues after gunmen stormed an accommodation block on the university campus.

When the assailants broke down the door, Hussain fired several rounds from his pistol, according to Shabir Ahmad Khan, an English department lecturer taking cover in an adjacent washroom.

"They carried on heavy shooting and I was preparing myself for death, but then they did not enter the washroom and left," Khan recalled.

Later on in the same building, Hussain fired again at the militants to allow some of his students to get away, surviving pupils told local media. Hussain was subsequently shot and later died from his wounds.

"Kudos to professor Dr Hamid Hussain. Our hero fought bravely n saved many," Asma Shirazi, a popular talk show host, said on Twitter.

[Straw Man]

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0UZ232

I know people will want to make this about politics but think about it logically, in the event of an active shooter would you rather be armed or not?

CHARSADDA, Pakistan/ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Stuck with 15 of his students on a third floor balcony of a campus building as gunmen came up the stairs, university director Mohammad Shakil urged Pakistani police arriving at the scene to toss him up a gun so he could shoot back.

"We were hiding ... but were unarmed," Shakil told Reuters, speaking after four Islamist militants attacked Bacha Khan University in Pakistan's troubled northwest on Wednesday, killing more than 20 people.

"I was worried about the students, and then one of the militants came after us," Shakil added. "After repeated requests, the police threw me a pistol and I fired some shots at the terrorists."

As more details of Wednesday's assault emerged, attention focused on at least two members of staff who took up arms to resist attackers bent on killing them and their students.

Some hailed them as heroes, as the country digested an attack which bore similarities to the massacre, in late 2014, of 134 pupils at an army-run school in Peshawar, about 30 km (19 miles) from where this week's violence occurred.


Others questioned whether teachers should be armed, as many are, because it goes against the ideals of the profession.

Such a dilemma may have been far from the mind of chemistry professor Hamid Hussain, as he locked himself inside a room with colleagues after gunmen stormed an accommodation block on the university campus.

When the assailants broke down the door, Hussain fired several rounds from his pistol, according to Shabir Ahmad Khan, an English department lecturer taking cover in an adjacent washroom.

"They carried on heavy shooting and I was preparing myself for death, but then they did not enter the washroom and left," Khan recalled.

Later on in the same building, Hussain fired again at the militants to allow some of his students to get away, surviving pupils told local media. Hussain was subsequently shot and later died from his wounds.

"Kudos to professor Dr Hamid Hussain. Our hero fought bravely n saved many," Asma Shirazi, a popular talk show host, said on Twitter.

who wouldn't want to be armed in that situation

given this was in Pakistan shouldn't everyone be armed all the time?

actually, to be honest since this does happen in the US as well it makes sense that all kids in schools should be issued a gun in the first grade (with proper training of course)

Having the kids armed certainly would have been helpful at Sandy Hook

[tonymctones]

who wouldn't want to be armed in that situation

given this was in Pakistan shouldn't everyone be armed all the time?

actually, to be honest since this does happen in the US as well it makes sense that all kids in schools should be issued a gun in the first grade (with proper training of course)

Having the kids armed certainly would have been helpful at Sandy Hook

You would think that anyone who might be in that situation would want the ability to defend themselves but even in Pakistan liberal ideology seems to prevent common sense actions.

Who is advocating children having guns?

Why would you not want some people in a school to have the ability to defend their children?

You can agree that school shootings won't end even if we ban all guns right?

[Straw Man]

You would think that anyone who might be in that situation would want the ability to defend themselves but even in Pakistan liberal ideology seems to prevent common sense actions.

Who is advocating children having guns?

Why would you not want some people in a school to have the ability to defend their children?

You can agree that school shootings won't end even if we ban all guns right?

yes Pakistan is a well know liberal bastion

who ever said we should ban all guns and who ever said that banning guns would stop school shootings?

banning abortions won't stop all abortions...right?.. so I assume you're all in favor of zero restrictions on abortions

Isn't that really the only option if a "ban" won't prevent something from happening?

[tonymctones]

yes Pakistan is a well know liberal bastion

who ever said we should ban all guns and who ever said that banning guns would stop school shootings?

banning abortions won't stop all abortions...right?.. so I assume you're all in favor of zero restrictions on abortions

Isn't that really the only option if a "ban" won't prevent something from happening?

Goodness you're about as rational as I remember.

I'm not saying anybody is for banning all guns only that even if we did they wouldn't prevent school shootings.

GIVEN THAT, why would you not want a few individuals in the school with the ability to protect their students?

IT OBVIOUSLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE!!!!

[Straw Man]

Goodness you're about as rational as I remember.

I'm not saying anybody is for banning all guns only that even if we did they wouldn't prevent school shootings.

GIVEN THAT, why would you not want a few individuals in the school with the ability to protect their students?

IT OBVIOUSLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE!!!!

All caps and three exclamation points already?

If you're not saying anyone is for banning all guns they why are you bringing it up as a premise

does banning drunk driving stop all drunk driving

does banning heroin stop all heroin overdose

and on and on

No shit that "banning" something doesn't eliminate it

No one ever said it would (though right winger love to bring it up for some reason but only when talking about guns for for some reason they forget all about that argument when talking about abortion or drugs)

so why did YOU bring up that idiotic premise of "banning" in the first place

[tonymctones]

All caps and three exclamation points already?

If you're not saying anyone is for banning all guns they why are you bringing it up as a premise

does banning drunk driving stop all drunk driving

does banning heroin stop all heroin overdose

and on and on

No shit that "banning" something doesn't eliminate it

No one ever said it would (though right winger love to bring it up for some reason but only when talking about guns for for some reason they forget all about that argument when talking about abortion or drugs)

so why did YOU bring up that idiotic premise of "banning" in the first place

Sweet Jesus you're dull, the point was to show that there is no way that you can prevent school shootings which you concede.

Given that, why would you not want a few people in the school with the ability to protect their students?

Care to answer the question...

[Straw Man]

Sweet Jesus you're dull, the point was to show that there is no way that you can prevent school shootings which you concede.

Given that, why would you not want a few people in the school with the ability to protect their students?

Care to answer the question...

No Shit Dumbass

No one ever said there was a 100% way to prevent anything

Again, right wingers like to bring up that phony premise as an argument against doing ANYTHING

Go back and read my first post

I'm all for arming everyone all the time...teachers, students, the janitors, the lunch lady.....everyone

Do you disagree that if the students at Sandy Hook were armed that they may have prevented some of the carnage?

[tonymctones]

No Shit Dumbass

No one ever said there was a 100% way to prevent anything

Again, right wingers like to bring up that phony premise as an argument against doing ANYTHING

Go back and read my first post

I'm all for arming everyone all the time...teachers, students, the janitors, the lunch lady.....everyone

Do you disagree that if the students at Sandy Hook were armed that they may have prevented some of the carnage?

Lol no they like to bring it up when laws are pushed that would have no effect at all on shootings...

Good to hear you're finally coming around to common sense, I don't think giving elementary school children guns is a great idea though...something tells me you don't either

[Straw Man]

Lol no they like to bring it up when laws are pushed that would have no effect at all on shootings...

Good to hear you're finally coming around to common sense, I don't think giving elementary school children guns is a great idea though...something tells me you don't either

interesting how you jumped from "school shootings won't end" to "no effect at all"

you do understand those are two completely different claims?

how do you know some kind of legislation won't have "any effect at all"?

please explain that in detail

also, why do you deny that if all the kids in Sandy Hook were armed that there would have been less death

100's of kids with guns against one shooter ...that guy wouldn't have made it out of the first room he went into

[tonymctones]

interesting how you jumped from "school shootings won't end" to "no effect at all"

you do understand those are two completely different claims?

how do you know some kind of legislation won't have "any effect at all"?

please explain that in detail

also, why do you deny that if all the kids in Sandy Hook were armed that there would have been less death

100's of kids with guns against one shooter ...they guy won't have made it out of the first room he went into

What shootings would the proposed laws so far have stopped?

Using events that have nothing to do with the law you're pushing is disingenuous at best

[Straw Man]

What shootings would the proposed laws so far have stopped?

Using events that have nothing to do with the law you're pushing is disingenuous at best

how would a "proposed law" stop anything

Now how about you explain how you arrived at your "no effect at all" claim

why are you ignorning the fact that you changed your entire premise from "school shootings won't end" to "no effect at all"

we have laws against drunk driving but that hasn't stopped people from driving drunk so obviously the laws are worthless right.

banning all abortions or even greatly restricting them won't stop all abortions so it's totally pointless to have any legislation whatsoever

and on and on.

Again, keep in mind that I'm all for arming EVERYONE all the time ...EVERWHERE

Of course even that won't stop all  shootings but still we'd all be armed and that's a good thing

[tonymctones]

Sweet Jesus dude, if the proposed law was implemented it wouldn't have stopped any of the shootings that are being used to push it forward.

I haven't changed my premise...goodness...has someone suggested banning all guns b/c that was the premise on saying school shootings won't end and even it it wasn't they are two totally different topics.

Seriously guy I can see you at a grocery store arguing yourself in circles with a cashier...fuck almighty man

What shootings would the proposed laws stop if they were implemented?

[Straw Man]

Sweet Jesus dude, if the proposed law was implemented it wouldn't have stopped any of the shootings that are being used to push it forward.

I haven't changed my premise...goodness...has someone suggested banning all guns b/c that was the premise on saying school shootings won't end and even it it wasn't they are two totally different topics.

Seriously guy I can see you at a grocery store arguing yourself in circles with a cashier...fuck almighty man

What shootings would the proposed laws stop if they were implemented?

great job ingoring every question that I've asked you, even the ones asking you about YOUR OWN CLAIMS

I guess that will never change

[tonymctones]

great job ingoring every question that I've asked you, even the ones asking you about YOUR OWN CLAIMS

I guess that will never change

Lol and you ignoring my questions are ok?

You ask how a proposed law could prevent shootings? Well I'm sorry sir the onus is on the person making the assertion. The idea of passing the laws are that they will prevent shootings even if they are using shootings that have nothing to do with the law to pass them.

So as you're making the assertion that they will stop at least one, please provide proof? Oh wait you can't....same as I cant provide proof that a proposed law won't stop any....only that the shootings being cited wouldn't have been prevented.

Seriously guy do you just get in random arguments with people and find yourself in constant loops?

[Straw Man]

Lol and you ignoring my questions are ok?

You ask how a proposed law could prevent shootings? Well I'm sorry sir the onus is on the person making the assertion. The idea of passing the laws are that they will prevent shootings even if they are using shootings that have nothing to do with the law to pass them.

So as you're making the assertion that they will stop at least one, please provide proof? Oh wait you can't....same as I cant provide proof that a proposed law won't stop any....only that the shootings being cited wouldn't have been prevented.

Seriously guy do you just get in random arguments with people and find yourself in constant loops?

your first three questions to me in this thread were

Who is advocating children having guns?

Why would you not want some people in a school to have the ability to defend their children?

You can agree that school shootings won't end even if we ban all guns right?

I told you I'm for arming children, I'm for arming everyone at the schools (and eveyrone everywhere)

I told you that banning guns won't end shootings and also pointed out that no one ever suggested it would and that is a popular right wing premise.

Now let's look at my questions that you didn't answer

I asked if you banning heroin or drunk driving would stop all drunk driving and drug overdoses....simple question that you did not answer

I asked you why you brought up the idiotic premise of banning in the first place... you did not answer

I asked you if you disagree that if the students at Sandy Hook were armed that they may have prevented some of the carnage... you did not answer

I pointed out that you changed your premise from "school shootings won't end" to "no effect at all"

and asked if you understood that those are two completely different claims and you did not answer

I asked you how do you know some kind of legislation won't have "any effect at all" and asked you to explain in detail (note this is me asking you to explain your own claim)....once again you did not answer

[tonymctones]

your first three questions to me in this thread were

I told you I'm for arming children, I'm for arming everyone at the schools (and eveyrone everywhere)

I told you that banning guns won't end shootings and also pointed out that no one ever suggested it would and that is a popular right wing premise.

Now let's look at my questions that you didn't answer

I asked if you banning heroin or drunk driving would stop all drunk driving and drug overdoses....simple question that you did not answer

I asked you why you brought up the idiotic premise of banning in the first place... you did not answer

I asked you if you disagree that if the students at Sandy Hook were armed that they may have prevented some of the carnage... you did not answer

I pointed out that you changed your premise from "school shootings won't end" to "no effect at all"

and asked if you understood that those are two completely different claims and you did not answer

I asked you how do you know some kind of legislation won't have "any effect at all" and asked you to explain in detail (note this is me asking you to explain your own claim)....once again you did not answer

Wow, I addressed and answered just about every question there and the ones I didn't either seemed like rhetorical questions or sarcasm...

Again do you just argue yourself in circles all day?

Just leave my thread dude you're adding nothing to it,

[Straw Man]

Wow, I addressed and answered just about every question there and the ones I didn't either seemed like rhetorical questions or sarcasm...

Again do you just argue yourself in circles all day?

Just leave my thread dude you're adding nothing to it,

all my questions were serious and you answered none of them

Why did YOU bring up the idiot "banning" premise in the first place when no one has ever suggested that banning anything will prevent 100% of anything

Why did you change your claim from ""school shootings won't end" to "no effect at all" and more importantly do you understand those are two completely different statements?

You said you "haven't changed YOUR PREMISE (which was about banning just in case you've forgotten) but "school shooting's won't end meand that there were still be some schools shootings and "no effect at all" means NOTHING changes.

Those are two different claims. You jumpted from one to the other and you're pretending their the same

Does restricting access to abortion (fewer clinics, shorter time frame when you can get one, removing it from insurnance coverage, etc..)
lower the number of abortions of does it have "no effect at all"

Think about that really hard and the give me a direct answer

[tonymctones]

Again I've answered and explained everything, I seriously feel sorry for anyone who has to deal with you during the day

The workers at your senior living apartment must want to pull their hair out.

[Straw Man]

Again I've answered and explained everything, I seriously feel sorry for anyone who has to deal with you during the day

The workers at your senior living apartment must want to pull their hair out.

ok, so I see you're just going to keep dodging the questions

thanks again for the reminder of what a total waste of time it is to treat you like a rational adult

It's been awhile and I had forgotten what you're like when you get stuck chasing your tail

[tonymctones]

I agree, why don't you just avoid my threads from hear on out

[Straw Man]

I agree, why don't you just avoid my threads from hear on out

Glad to see that you agree that treating you like a rational adult is pointless given that you'll just resort to dodging the questions when you get stuck.