Phil Heath looking bloofy on 05-12-19

[XFACTOR]

This has already been addressed. Try to keep up.

Pellius so given that study and those percentages would you stand your position on drugs and where they sit on importance?

[SF1900]

I didn't say you did. But this scenario puts into perspective and priority the role of drugs versus training.

I didn't mean to imply that you meant "all drugs" but is that really the most important factor? That it's finding the right stack that will put you in the winner's circle or even get you a pro card.

It's not a good scenario because it's not my position at all, so I am not going to address a question that is not my position. Further, you are providing in implausible scenario to try and prove your point. No on here is saying that you don't need to train.

Yes, drugs are the most important factor, but not the only factor. However, they are the priority for any IFBB pro.

And the study on the previous page strongly suggest that drugs are more important than training.

[XFACTOR]

 

The problem with Mr PEDO is that  he uses himself as the measurement stick  ,he has been  juicing for years and still look like shit due to his horrible genetics, I agree with Mr PEDO all the drugs in the world wouldn't  make him an IFBB pro  ever , but anyone with average genetic  ,decent diet , consistent training  and  consistency with his drug regime can become an IFBB PRO,  once you are a PRO the factors that will decide how far will you get are , genetics (shape and condition ),money ( to up the dosage) and how much risk are you  willing to take when it comes to your health , but if you already got this far ,  I don't think you give a fuck about your health anyways.



Examples:







Shit genetics on steroids




IFBB Pros with average genetics






Blacks vs white genetics. They are superior for B.B.  Pellius, don’t know what that is, black guy with bad genetics?


IFBB Pros with great genetics

[Bevo]

To think dexter started out as a bantamweight, he’s naturally a very small individual




How did this guy ever become a pro?? Haha

[pellius]

Pellius so given that study and those percentages would you stand your position on drugs and where they sit on importance?

This is a good question because of the many variables involved. One thing that I believe is the "deciding factor" is genetics. How you respond to training and drugs. It's a fallacy when one shows a picture of a young Levrone or Dexter looking so skinny and weak and claim that this is proof that it's the drugs that are the most determining factor. Being a skinny boy tells you nothing about that person's genetic RESPONSE to training and drugs.

Think of all the variations growing with other kids around you and how variations of their response to a stimulus. In my high school, there were a couple of super responders that developed real advanced muscle development and far, far above average levels of strength. They did nothing that everybody else wasn't doing.

Back in the mid 1980 this is what Dr. Walczak, who treated all the big names at the time including Arnold and Franco, told me when I went to see him about being prescribed steroids which were legal at the time.

(to be continued)

[pellius]

It's not a good scenario because it's not my position at all, so I am not going to address a question that is not my position. Further, you are providing in implausible scenario to try and prove your point. No on here is saying that you don't need to train.

Yes, drugs are the most important factor, but not the only factor. However, they are the priority for any IFBB pro.

And the study on the previous page strongly suggest that drugs are more important than training.

Ah, you've done this before. Providing a hypothetical, though it cannot be recreated in real life, in no way invalidates the point being argued. I don't have to actually go through the process of starving my myself or gorging myself to extrapolate the effect it will have.

We absolutely can make a reasonable prediction of what will happen if someone trains for a year naturally versus someone who takes drugs but is sedentary. I chose virtual clones to completely rule out any other factors or variations stemming from genetic predispositions but it wasn't necessary. I can just as easily compare me to Coach, who is vastly superior to me genetically but if he sat around on his ass for a year on gear whereas I trained hard naturally for a year I would be and look in better shape than he would.

As mentioned before, and subsequently ignored, the study quoted was done on previously untrained individuals. Virtually anything a neophyte does will yield results. Do you really think that a person will keep putting on muscle after about three months on drugs continue to gain muscle? You have no experience with steroids so you are not aware of the fact that your gains slow down considerably, or stop altogether, even when you are training and eating like a hardcore bber. That when you have to move on to insulin and HGH.

You don't want to answer a simple direct question because you think it might undermine your claims about drugs being "the most important" factor in muscle hypertrophy. This suggests that you are more concerned with promoting an agenda than seeking the truth.

I'll answer the question for you with an answer you will be unable to make an argument to  
rationally dispute: of course, a person will be in much better shape and look better who trained naturally versus someone who just took drugs but lived the typical sedentary life of the average American.

[SF1900]

Ah, you've done this before. Providing a hypothetical, though it cannot be recreated in real life, in no way invalidates the point being argued. I don't have to actually go through the process of starving my myself or gorging myself to extrapolate the effect it will have.

We absolutely can make a reasonable prediction of what will happen if someone trains for a year naturally versus someone who takes drugs but is sedentary. I chose virtual clones to completely rule out any other factors or variations stemming from genetic predispositions but it wasn't necessary. I can just as easily compare me to Coach, who is vastly superior to me genetically but if he sat around on his ass for a year on gear whereas I trained hard naturally for a year I would be and look in better shape than he would.

As mentioned before, and subsequently ignored, the study quoted was done on previously untrained individuals. Virtually anything a neophyte does will yield results. Do you really think that a person will keep putting on muscle after about three months on drugs continue to gain muscle? You have no experience with steroids so you are not aware of the fact that your gains slow down considerably, or stop altogether, even when you are training and eating like a hardcore bber. That when you have to move on to insulin and HGH.

You don't want to answer a simple direct question because you think it might undermine your claims about drugs being "the most important" factor in muscle hypertrophy. This suggests that you are more concerned with promoting an agenda than seeking the truth.

I'll answer the question for you with an answer you will be unable to make an argument to  
rationally dispute: of course, a person will be in much better shape and look better who trained naturally versus someone who just took drugs but lived the typical sedentary life of the average American.

Again, I have already conceded that training is still an important aspect of bodybuilding, so your whole statement means absolutely nothing. Thus, I did not read your whole statement. In fact, I barely skimmed it (besides the 2nd paragraph, first line).

At the end of the day, drugs and genetics are fundamentally more important than diet and training. It's just the way it is. Nothing you say will make my statement incorrect. It's undeniably true, despite the fact that you do not want to accept it.

You should just be honest with yourself and concede that the fundamental difference in bodybuilding, especially professional bodybuilding, is the drugs. Lying to yourself will not change this fact. It is what it is.

[SF1900]

The problem with Mr PEDO is that  he uses himself as the measurement stick  ,he has been  juicing for years and still look like shit due to his horrible genetics, I agree with Mr PEDO all the drugs in the world wouldn't  make him an IFBB pro  ever , but anyone with average genetic  ,decent diet , consistent training  and  consistency with his drug regime can become an IFBB PRO,  once you are a PRO the factors that will decide how far will you get are , genetics (shape and condition ),money ( to up the dosage) and how much risk are you  willing to take when it comes to your health , but if you already got this far ,  I don't think you give a fuck about your health anyways.



Examples:







Shit genetics on steroids




IFBB Pros with average genetics







IFBB Pros with great genetics

Exactly correct. How far you get in professional bodybuilding is primarily one's genetic response to drugs, with diet and training being secondary factors. Drugs and genetics, to a large degree, are the deciding factor in professional bodybuilding.

If you have the right genetics and the right drug stack, you don't need superior dieting and training to become an IFBB pro.

[pellius]

The problem with Mr PEDO is that  he uses himself as the measurement stick  ,he has been  juicing for years and still look like shit due to his horrible genetics, I agree with Mr PEDO all the drugs in the world wouldn't  make him an IFBB pro  ever , but anyone with average genetic  ,decent diet , consistent training  and  consistency with his drug regime can become an IFBB PRO,  once you are a PRO the factors that will decide how far will you get are , genetics (shape and condition ),money ( to up the dosage) and how much risk are you  willing to take when it comes to your health , but if you already got this far ,  I don't think you give a fuck about your health anyways.

First off, there has never been any proof that I am a pedophile. Nobody believes that. Not even you. People like you say it because they have nothing else. We do have proof that you are a Commie lover. That you admire a murderous, Communist, coward who responsible for the suffering and death of many innocent people. But chances are you didn't even know that until I had to educate you. You just bought in, like the ignorant sheep you are, that Che Guevara, was a freedom-fighting revolutionary and thought he looked cool in his tilted beret and swashbuckling beard.

You are correct that I don't have the genetics to be an IFBB pro nor had any aspirations to do so. Neither do you. Neither do most people. You seem to be oblivious to those who have tried and failed. Every heard of Rory Leidermeyer, Dave Palumbo, Matt Mendenhall, Trey Brewer... the list goes on. Now multiply that by a 10,000 to cover those that we never will hear from.

As far as your list to what it takes to succeed after you become a pro, I wouldn't disagree with that.  

[pellius]

Again, I have already conceded that training is still an important aspect of bodybuilding, so your whole statement means absolutely nothing. Thus, I did not read your whole statement. In fact, I barely skimmed it (besides the 2nd paragraph, first line).

At the end of the day, drugs and genetics are fundamentally more important than diet and training. It's just the way it is. Nothing you say will make my statement incorrect. It's undeniably true, despite the fact that you do not want to accept it.

You should just be honest with yourself and concede that the fundamental difference in bodybuilding, especially professional bodybuilding, is the drugs. Lying to yourself will not change this fact. It is what it is.

At the top of the top level, everyone is pretty much doing the same thing. Of course, there are variations but for the most part, they are trivial. At that level, being at it so long, knowing their body and it's response; they've pretty much optimized their training, their drug regime, their nutrition.

So they all train like it's their life's ambition, they're all hormonalized to the extreme, they eat like no other normal human could possibly do -- so why do some win and most lose?

You should just be honest with yourself and concede that the fundamental difference in bodybuilding, especially professional bodybuilding, is the genetics. Lying to yourself will not change this fact. It is what it is.

[Bevo]

First off, there has never been any proof that I am a pedophile. Nobody believes that. Not even you. People like you say it because they have nothing else. We do have proof that you are a Commie lover. That you admire a murderous, Communist, coward who responsible for the suffering and death of many innocent people. But chances are you didn't even know that until I had to educate you. You just bought in, like the ignorant sheep you are, that Che Guevara, was a freedom-fighting revolutionary and thought he looked cool in his tilted beret and swashbuckling beard.

You are correct that I don't have the genetics to be an IFBB pro nor had any aspirations to do so. Neither do you. Neither do most people. You seem to be oblivious to those who have tried and failed. Every heard of Rory Leidermeyer, Dave Palumbo, Matt Mendenhall, Trey Brewer... the list goes on. Now multiply that by a 10,000 to cover those that we never will hear from.

As far as your list to what it takes to succeed after you become a pro, I wouldn't disagree with that.  

That’s a different era, if you are competing in today’s shows, your chances of becoming pro is greater than than the 80’s, 90’s, even early 2000’s. There are also different shows for you to turn pro like men’s physique, and they pass out pro cards waaaaay more than back then

We have guys on here that if they are serious, can turn pro, Go4it for example, my buddy Kevin perod did half assing it back in 2012 and he turned pro not even winning has class

Funny how you keep stating genetics but sf, I, along with others have stated that is the most important..... then it is drugs and response and the rest follows

[Bevo]

This is a good question because of the many variables involved. One thing that I believe is the "deciding factor" is genetics. How you respond to training and drugs. It's a fallacy when one shows a picture of a young Levrone or Dexter looking so skinny and weak and claim that this is proof that it's the drugs that are the most determining factor. Being a skinny boy tells you nothing about that person's genetic RESPONSE to training and drugs.

Think of all the variations growing with other kids around you and how variations of their response to a stimulus. In my high school, there were a couple of super responders that developed real advanced muscle development and far, far above average levels of strength. They did nothing that everybody else wasn't doing.

Back in the mid 1980 this is what Dr. Walczak, who treated all the big names at the time including Arnold and Franco, told me when I went to see him about being prescribed steroids which were legal at the time.

(to be continued)

Kevin and dexter have elite genetics but they are 5’6 and 5’9, they would never be 200 pounds and over, single digit bf levels if they are 100 percent natural. The drugs pushed them over the edge with their genetic response to be 220+ and 250+ at their respective height

I will go out on a limb they would have exceptional physiques when natural but not huge or big by any means cause cause naturally, as stated, they aren’t big guys at all. Their height and bone structure tell the story, same with flex, a very small man

Genetic response

[Coach is Back!]

Again, I have already conceded that training is still an important aspect of bodybuilding, so your whole statement means absolutely nothing. Thus, I did not read your whole statement. In fact, I barely skimmed it (besides the 2nd paragraph, first line).

At the end of the day, drugs and genetics are fundamentally more important than diet and training. It's just the way it is. Nothing you say will make my statement incorrect. It's undeniably true, despite the fact that you do not want to accept it.

You should just be honest with yourself and concede that the fundamental difference in bodybuilding, especially professional bodybuilding, is the drugs. Lying to yourself will not change this fact. It is what it is.

Delusional. This is EXACTLY why I say most in this thread, especially SF have no clue what they're talking about

[SF1900]

Delusional. This is EXACTLY why I say most in this thread, especially SF have no clue what they're talking about

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[pellius]

That’s a different era, if you are competing in today’s shows, your chances of becoming pro is greater than than the 80’s, 90’s, even early 2000’s. There are also different shows for you to turn pro like men’s physique, and they pass out pro cards waaaaay more than back then

We have guys on here that if they are serious, can turn pro, Go4it for example, my buddy Kevin perod did half assing it back in 2012 and he turned pro not even winning has class

Funny how you keep stating genetics but sf, I, along with others have stated that is the most important..... then it is drugs and response and the rest follows

author=SF1900 link=topic=653969.msg9216533#msg9216533 date=1558299387]

You should just be honest with yourself and concede that the fundamental difference in bodybuilding, especially professional bodybuilding, is the drugs. Lying to yourself will not change this fact. It is what it is.

[pellius]

Just an outright lie. No one, after all these years and accusations have ever said that I molested a 13 year old girl let alone me. Why would I even say that on a public board?
 You just made that up. What a lying piece of shit!!

You use to have Che Guevara as your avi. You chose his name as your board id.  Both to honor him. You remove his picture only after you were educated as to the truth about him. You just followed the sheep and thought he was cool because someone like Santana wore a t-shirt with his face on it.

[Bevo]

  case closed

That’s very disturbing if true

[Matt]

Just an outright lie. No one, after all these years and accusations have ever said that I molested a 13 year old girl let alone me. Why would I even say that on a public board?
 You just made that up. What a lying piece of shit!!

You use to have Che Guevara as your avi. You chose his name as your board id.  Both to honor him. You remove his picture only after you were educated as to the truth about him. You just followed the sheep and thought he was cool because someone like Santana wore a t-shirt with his face on it.

Thank you for raising awareness regarding what a scumbag Che Guevara was, pellius.

Regarding your post, even if not photoshopped:

When I was also around 29, a 14-year-old girl pretty much did everything she could to take me home, given the age disparity. She was named after Peyton Manning, making her easy to find on Facebook, years later. She grew up to be very pretty, and is a little over 20 now.

Bottom line:

I didn't do anything to initiate any of that. She did everything, as I basically stood awkwardly and eventually ended the conversation. I was at my gym in a weight room that was under video surveillance. If not for that...I would have probably fled.

Incidentally, in Canada - legal age of consent was 14 until it changed to 16 under Conservative prime minister Stephen Harper.

But here's the thing: wtf does it matter if teenage girls hit on US?

Oh, I forgot - in the #MeToo era, EVERYTHING is the man's fault.

[pellius]

 case closed

A teenager stimulates a strip tease and that translates to me molesting her. Zero physical contact was made.

God you're a moron!

[pellius]

Thank you for raising awareness regarding what a scumbag Che Guevara was, pellius.

Regarding your post, even if not photoshopped:

When I was also around 29, a 14-year-old girl pretty much did everything she could to take me home, given the age disparity. She was named after Peyton Manning, making her easy to find on Facebook, years later. She grew up to be very pretty, and is a little over 20 now.

Bottom line:

I didn't do anything to initiate any of that. She did everything, as I basically stood awkwardly and eventually ended the conversation. I was at my gym in a weight room that was under video surveillance. If not for that...I would have probably fled.

Incidentally, in Canada - legal age of consent was 14 until it changed to 16 under Conservative prime minister Stephen Harper.

But here's the thing: wtf does it matter if teenage girls hit on US?

Oh, I forgot - in the #MeToo era, EVERYTHING is the man's fault.

Che is just another example of the pussified Western male. Ignorant of history, too. Would love to sit him down and ask him basic questions about Western civilization and our system of government. I'm sure he supports the popular vote.

[pellius]

And he's a hypocrite, too. He accuses me of molesting a teenage girl stimulating a strip tease in which I had no physical contact with, but in the same thread, he approves of Jason Ellis having sex with a 14 girl because it was "consensual" and then he married her to avoid going to jail.

What a POS phony.

Yes, "let's move on."

Case closed. You lose again you staggering dumb fuck.


Re: Jason Ellis jury trial delayed again - marries the girl

Whatever , He didn't rape her it was consensual now they are married, let's move on.