Will you no longer own your home?

[Al Doggity]

If you own a home that is serviced by a smaller bank and the FDIC soon takes over your regional bank, will your home soon be owned by the FDIC (i.e. the government)? If so, this nationalization of US banks is setting the stage for socialism. Part of the American dream is "owning a home", but how much of a home do you own if you're simply renting it from the government and proving them monthly payments towards your principal, interests and property taxes?
"1"

I saw this post on here yesterday, and was waiting to respond until someone posted something like this:

I went down the rabbit hole with this. Getting savings accounts at different banks is one way to get a total of over 250k FDIC coverage. From what I've read another way is to put the total into a brokerage and from there buy brokered CDs at different banks at 250k each (will be less liquid than savings acct but you can do short term CDs). Another option I'm reading about is something that used to be called CDARS which is now IntraFi which I think does something similar to the above automatically for you.

Point being, this so-called potential "nationalization" is the primary reason  most people  have any trust in US banks whatsoever. Bhank's points are correct in that there would not be a fundamental difference in the nature of your loan. A huge portion of people already receive gov't backed loans through commercial banks already. Banks aren't benevolent in general, so I don't get the thought process that somehow a bank being in receivership equates to suddenly swimming with the sharks.

[longtimereader]

No mortgage or debt, no worries.

Try not paying your property tax and your house goes off to auction. Crazy that in the USA you can't really own land or house, always under the threat of it getting takes away if you miss a tax payment

[IroNat]

Try not paying your property tax and your house goes off to auction. Crazy that in the USA you can't really own land or house, always under the threat of it getting takes away if you miss a tax payment

It takes two or three years to get foreclosed.

[Dave D]

It takes two or three years to get foreclosed.

Even in a tax seizure situation, the process is still favorable to the owner, if you are able to come up with the money owed. But the point is that people dont really own anything if theres always a payment.

[IroNat]

Even in a tax seizure situation, the process is still favorable to the owner?, if you are able to come up with the money owed. But the point is that people dont really own anything if theres always a payment.

Nonsense.

The property taxes pay for services.  Schools, roads, lighting, improvements, sewer, library, government services, snow plowing, police, fire department, etc.
The common good.
You own the property by deed.  If you have a mortgage it is collateralized on the property as security for the lender.
The lender technically requires you to maintain the property since it is collateral for the loan.

[Dave D]

Nonsense.

The property taxes pay for services.  Schools, roads, lighting, improvements, sewer, library, government services, snow plowing, police, fire department, etc.
The common good.
You own the property by deed.  If you have a mortgage it is collateralized on the property as security for the lender.
The lender technically requires you to maintain the property since it is collateral for the loan.

Let me know what happens if you don’t pay those taxes then.

I have a property that is owned outright, I didn’t pay the property taxes for three years and I received a certified letter explaining the seizure process, there would be a notice placed in the local paper, blah,blah,blah….

The point is even though I literally own the parcel of land and home if I did not pay the taxes in full or at least work out a payment plan, it would have gone to auction, where the city would have kept the money from the sale, and the back taxes would still be owed.

I own the property and if it would have sold due to failure to pay taxes I would not have seen a dime from the sale.

In fact I just received a letter yesterday explaining that the assessed value of the property has gone up and as such so will my taxes.

We are getting lost in semantics, by all rights if you own something it is yours but there are rules you must follow if you want to keep ownership.

[IroNat]

Why didn't you pay the taxes?

You didn't pay the taxes so they put a lien on your property.

If you had work done on your house and didn't pay the contractor he can lien your property.

If someone owes you money and they don't pay you can get a judgement and garnish their wages.

You owe and don't pay you get liened.

You want to live in the town/city/county you have to pay.

[Dave D]

Why didn't you pay the taxes?

You didn't pay the taxes so they put a lien on your property.

If you had work done on your house and didn't pay the contractor he can lien your property.

If someone owes you money and they don't pay you can get a judgement and garnish their wages.

You owe and don't pay you get liened.

You want to live in the town/city/county you have to pay.

Why didn’t I pay the taxes? I moved and no longer live in the state and I’m on a 3 hour time difference, so when covid shut down the municipality office for the first year, I knew I was going to be late that year not a big deal. The second year they had limited hours and they no longer accepted credit card payments, it was a cash or check option and there was a new country treasurer that when I was able to connect with the main office they gave conflicting information who to make the check out to (or in my case a money order). That drifted into year 3.

I see your point but I’ll agree to disagree.

The property management company connected me and said the back deck needed repairs, so I let them price out a local guy who could do it. As the repairs were going on the county inspector (or whatever his title is) stopped in to make sure they had they proper permits, which according to the letter of law a repair to a deck does not require a permit, and this lead to a whole another issue ( The permit was purchased because it wasn’t worth the headache to dispute, but it also wasn’t my battle). That said my house and property still required “permission” to fix the issues. This is in a rural community btw.

Or when the county plow trucks hit and removed my mailbox the county said they weren’t liable for that type of damage. The box was to close to the road, I never had an issue when I lived there but in the 6 years I’ve been gone it’s happened twice.

I have other trivial issues like this and I still believe it’s better to own than not but I still believe we never really own anything property wise, we are just leasing until our time here is up.

[obsidian]

I have other trivial issues like this and I still believe it’s better to own than not but I still believe we never really own anything property wise, we are just leasing until our time here is up.

That's the way the universe works. You can't take the property to your grave so it becomes someone else's. Everything is temporary. The human race is temporary. In a few million years it will evolve into something else or go extinct.

[Al Doggity]

I have other trivial issues like this and I still believe it’s better to own than not but I still believe we never really own anything property wise, we are just leasing until our time here is up.

Dave, do you believe property taxes are just a bad thing across the board? Or do you think- considering that land is a limited resource, the population is constantly increasing, land ownership is one of the most solid investments and, for most people, surrounding properties effect nearby home values- that there is a some benefit in making sure property owners have a vested interest in their property? For instance, if someone moved outside of a state and gradually lost interest in maintaining a property, wouldn't adjacent property owners appreciate a mechanism that allowed for the property to be sold to someone who would be more interested in maintaining it? If it's a crowded market, might there be some good in a limited resource being available for a family that needed a place to live?  When you pay off property, you do own it free and clear from the person you bought it from. They can't demand it back when the value goes up or if they get sick of their new neighborhood. But, as land is a limited resource and a necessity, couldn't the argument be made that it's a good thing for there to be ongoing obligations?

[obsidian]

Why didn’t I pay the taxes? I moved and no longer live in the state and I’m on a 3 hour time difference, so when covid shut down the municipality office for the first year, I knew I was going to be late that year not a big deal. The second year they had limited hours and they no longer accepted credit card payments, it was a cash or check option and there was a new country treasurer that when I was able to connect with the main office they gave conflicting information who to make the check out to (or in my case a money order). That drifted into year 3.

I see your point but I’ll agree to disagree.

The property management company connected me and said the back deck needed repairs, so I let them price out a local guy who could do it. As the repairs were going on the county inspector (or whatever his title is) stopped in to make sure they had they proper permits, which according to the letter of law a repair to a deck does not require a permit, and this lead to a whole another issue ( The permit was purchased because it wasn’t worth the headache to dispute, but it also wasn’t my battle). That said my house and property still required “permission” to fix the issues. This is in a rural community btw.

Or when the county plow trucks hit and removed my mailbox the county said they weren’t liable for that type of damage. The box was to close to the road, I never had an issue when I lived there but in the 6 years I’ve been gone it’s happened twice.

I have other trivial issues like this and I still believe it’s better to own than not but I still believe we never really own anything property wise, we are just leasing until our time here is up.

The continents are temporary. You've heard of Pangea, well guess what, eventually there will be another supercontinent in a few 100 million years. Miami will eventually be abandoned as the oceans reclaim it. Plate tectonics is not going to stop. New mountain ranges will form that might be taller than the Himalayas. The sun will eventually fuse most hydrogen to helium and then become a red giant and burn out in a helium flash. All stars in the universe will eventually die off and star formation in the universe will cease. Eventually, protons will decay. Then no more gold lol!

[obsidian]

Dave, do you believe property taxes are just a bad thing across the board? Or do you think- considering that land is a limited resource, the population is constantly increasing, land ownership is one of the most solid investments and, for most people, surrounding properties effect nearby home values- that there is a some benefit in making sure property owners have a vested interest in their property? For instance, if someone moved outside of a state and gradually lost interest in maintaining a property, wouldn't adjacent property owners appreciate a mechanism that allowed for the property to be sold to someone who would be more interested in maintaining it? If it's a crowded market, might there be some good in a limited resource being available for a family that needed a place to live?  When you pay off property, you do own it free and clear from the person you bought it from. They can't demand it back when the value goes up or if they get sick of their new neighborhood. But, as land is a limited resource and a necessity, couldn't the argument be made that it's a good thing for there to be ongoing obligations?

Some people feel assets like Bitcoin are better investments because property requires maintenance and tax payments. If the property does not increase in value more than these costs then it is not a sound investment. And all property is not equal. Some properties appreciate and others devalue.

[GymnJuice]

The continents are temporary. You've heard of Pangea, well guess what, eventually there will be another supercontinent in a few 100 million years. Miami will eventually be abandoned as the oceans reclaim it. Plate tectonics is not going to stop. New mountain ranges will form that might be taller than the Himalayas. The sun will eventually fuse most hydrogen to helium and then become a red giant and burn out in a helium flash. All stars in the universe will eventually die off and star formation in the universe will cease. Eventually, protons will decay. Then no more gold lol!

And by that time Wes will be twice as old as he is now.

[Dave D]

Dave, do you believe property taxes are just a bad thing across the board? Or do you think- considering that land is a limited resource, the population is constantly increasing, land ownership is one of the most solid investments and, for most people, surrounding properties effect nearby home values- that there is a some benefit in making sure property owners have a vested interest in their property? For instance, if someone moved outside of a state and gradually lost interest in maintaining a property, wouldn't adjacent property owners appreciate a mechanism that allowed for the property to be sold to someone who would be more interested in maintaining it? If it's a crowded market, might there be some good in a limited resource being available for a family that needed a place to live?  When you pay off property, you do own it free and clear from the person you bought it from. They can't demand it back when the value goes up or if they get sick of their new neighborhood. But, as land is a limited resource and a necessity, couldn't the argument be made that it's a good thing for there to be ongoing obligations?

Oh my argument isn’t that property taxes are bad or unnecessary, I’m just of the mindset that you never really “own” anything because ownership is always based on contingencies. Or maybe it’s better to view it as ownership has more requirements/responsibilities and obligations.

I think you’re right and so is ironnat, I just don’t always agree with the rules.

Where I live today we have a HOA and I think these type of setups, in many cases, are a scam. The reality though is the HOA keeps a standard for the properties in the neighborhood. I don’t have to be concerned about a neighbor using their lawn as a parking lot or placing a tool shed in their front yard. If I don’t agree with a HOA rule and don’t pay the HOA they can put a lien on my house and obviously I’m opposed to that (but again I’m biased because I would want others to follow the rules I agree with).

All this said I think the advantages of owning are superior to renting; I’m just being a contrarian.

[obsidian]

And by that time Wes will be twice as old as he is now.

Damn that's old!! We're talking trillions and trillions and trillions of years - even more than that! Googol years?!

[Humble Narcissist]

Try not paying your property tax and your house goes off to auction. Crazy that in the USA you can't really own land or house, always under the threat of it getting takes away if you miss a tax payment

If you can't afford property taxes on a paid off house you have way too much house.

[Mayday]

Why didn’t I pay the taxes? I moved and no longer live in the state and I’m on a 3 hour time difference, so when covid shut down the municipality office for the first year, I knew I was going to be late that year not a big deal. The second year they had limited hours and they no longer accepted credit card payments, it was a cash or check option and there was a new country treasurer that when I was able to connect with the main office they gave conflicting information who to make the check out to (or in my case a money order). That drifted into year 3.

I see your point but I’ll agree to disagree.

The property management company connected me and said the back deck needed repairs, so I let them price out a local guy who could do it. As the repairs were going on the county inspector (or whatever his title is) stopped in to make sure they had they proper permits, which according to the letter of law a repair to a deck does not require a permit, and this lead to a whole another issue ( The permit was purchased because it wasn’t worth the headache to dispute, but it also wasn’t my battle). That said my house and property still required “permission” to fix the issues. This is in a rural community btw.

Or when the county plow trucks hit and removed my mailbox the county said they weren’t liable for that type of damage. The box was to close to the road, I never had an issue when I lived there but in the 6 years I’ve been gone it’s happened twice.

I have other trivial issues like this and I still believe it’s better to own than not but I still believe we never really own anything property wise, we are just leasing until our time here is up.

Americans are really in the Stone Age to the digital world which is really weird given Silicon Valley and all.

It is easier to have it all digital but I can understand Americans might be unhappy because they won’t be able to evade taxes. We are all doing ok so don’t worry, your life isn’t over if you need a bank account.

[Antonio fella]

Don't worry.  The economic circular flow model just requires another war from the military machine.  Ukraine vs Russia isn't scaled enough.  North Korea had over 200k volunteers.  US has epidemic levels of degeneracy and fatherless males ranging from 18-25. This is a fantastic time to reset a lost generation.  You just have to be willing to co-sign the meat grinder.

Absolutely HALAL

 

[Dave D]

Americans are really in the Stone Age to the digital world which is really weird given Silicon Valley and all.

It is easier to have it all digital but I can understand Americans might be unhappy because they won’t be able to evade taxes. We are all doing ok so don’t worry, your life isn’t over if you need a bank account.

I’m not following you. 

[Mayday]

I’m not following you.

Apologies i was on my phone and hit the wrong quote and my post is all messed up. Not even sure it's on the right page or topic.


As for land taxes. Down here we have stamp duty which is a one time payment for the purchase of a property. It equates to approx 3.4% and is a must pay. Median house price in Sydney is 1.5M so you start to get an idea of just how much money it takes up.

I assume at some point we will adopt land tax. It's a better system than the 99yr lease the asian countries have going on.

[Primemuscle]

You have a valid point. Bhank is correct that the mortgage is simply a lien. The reality is that the vast majority of mortgages are government backed from the start. FHA / VA / USDA / Fannie / Freddie - not to mention all of the bond programs for down payment assistance etc. BUT - OMR you stated that “IF YOU MEET THE TERMS OR THE MTG” . How many have ever REALLY read the entire mortgage agreement? I have closed 1,000 + mtgs (just about every type) and I admit that it’s been a few years since I took the time to read all sections. There is one section in 100% of mortgages that state the owner must “maintain the property to standards….” Those “standards” are never anything specific. The government (who becomes the lien holder when the mortgage company or bank fail) COULD have “home inspections” and create any standard they wanted.
30 years ago when I started this would have sounded bat shit crazy, hell even 10 years ago. Now - it doesn’t sound crazy to me at all. Who’s to say that they couldn’t deem it a hazard to have occupants who were unvaccinated??

I for one have never read every word in any of the many mortgages I have had in my lifetime. It seems to me that when folks pay their mortgage payments in a timely manner, keep current on their taxes, and homeowner’s insurance, this satisfies the lender.

I was unaware of the clause about maintaining the property. Not this has ever been an issue for me. Maintaining and even improving one’s property is a no brainer. It pays off whenever you decide to refinance or sell.

My last closing was done at home by a notary when I refinanced to lower the interest rate to 2.25%. All  other aspects of the mortgage, including the initial application process and appraisal, were handled online. A notary was here for at least two hours because there was a huge stack of paperwork to read, sign, and initial. It is just crazy! No wonder closing costs are so high.