Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!

[gib]

Eth has performed terribly to BTC, to the extent that it even makes sense to compare them.

The peak value of Eth relative to BTC was way back in June 12, 2017.

On June 12 2017, 1 ETH was worth 0.148 BTC. Back then, Eth was trading around $398 and BTC was at $2,701.

By Feb 5 2018, Eth has fallen to 0.103 BTC.

By May 29 2018, Eth has fallen to 0.084 BTC.

By Feb 15 2023, Eth has fallen to 0.07 BTC.

And as of now, 28 October 2025, Eth has fallen to 0.035 BTC.

That is not to say that Eth has not performed well against other assets, including the USD. But its performance and continued loss of value to BTC has been consistent, striking, and obvious when compared to BTC over time. As I have continuously explained many times, his trend will of course, for obvious reasons, continue over time (albeit with little blips along the way).

[obsidian]

Exactly. And that is exactly the problem for Eth (as an investment).

It’s a problem for BTC, not ETH. Bitcoin needs high transaction fees to offset its shrinking block rewards — but fees currently make up less than 1% of miner revenue. Have you actually done the math?

ETH, on the other hand, scales with activity. As network usage grows, so does its revenue. Bitcoin hasn’t evolved to scale like Ethereum. Its “digital gold” HODL narrative directly conflicts with the need for frequent transactions and high fees. So where are all these transactions supposed to come from once block rewards hit zero?

BTC’s price still hasn’t even doubled from its 2021 all-time high — yet miners need it to do at least that just to match 2021 revenue, since block rewards have already been cut in half. Meanwhile, costs like energy, property taxes, and hardware keep rising. Miners don’t get a pass on inflation.

Let’s not forget how fast rewards are disappearing:

6.25000000000 BTC (2024) 1
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3.12500000000 BTC (2028) 1/2
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1.56250000000 BTC (2032) 1/4
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0.78125000000 BTC (2036) 1/8
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0.39062500000 BTC (2040) 1/16
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0.19531250000 BTC (2044) 1/32
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0.09765625000 BTC (2048) 1/64
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0.04882812500 BTC (2052) 1/128
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0.02441406250 BTC (2056) 1/256
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Bitcoin’s model relies on ever-higher fees and prices to stay alive — but its own design discourages both.

[obsidian]

Eth has performed terribly to BTC, to the extent that it even makes sense to compare them.

The peak value of Eth relative to BTC was way back in June 12, 2017.

On June 12 2017, 1 ETH was worth 0.148 BTC. Back then, Eth was trading around $398 and BTC was at $2,701.

By Feb 5 2018, Eth has fallen to 0.103 BTC.

By May 29 2018, Eth has fallen to 0.084 BTC.

By Feb 15 2023, Eth has fallen to 0.07 BTC.

And as of now, 28 October 2025, Eth has fallen to 0.035 BTC.

That is not to say that Eth has not performed well against other assets, including the USD. But its performance and continued loss of value to BTC has been consistent, striking, and obvious when compared to BTC over time. As I have continuously explained many times, his trend will of course, for obvious reasons, continue over time (albeit with little blips along the way).

When Ethereum launched in 2015, 1 BTC could buy 2,000 ETH. Today, it buys only 27 ETH.

Ethereum is six years younger than Bitcoin, yet its market cap is already triple Bitcoin’s 2020 valuation (last time I checked). ETH’s growth rate has been faster across every metric that matters — adoption, utility, and ecosystem development.

BTC only outperformed ETH since the 2021 ATH because of regulatory headwinds. Gensler and the SEC did Ethereum no favors — they slowed it down. Not because it’s weaker, but because it threatens the old system more directly.

Bitcoin has the marketing edge. It’s been sold as “digital gold” to the masses for years. Everyone’s heard of Bitcoin. Most people still don’t know what Ethereum actually is (or heard of it), even though it powers nearly everything in Web3.

Ethereum’s adoption curve is still early. Bitcoin’s story is already priced in. ETH’s is just getting started IMO.

[obsidian]

All BTC needs is miners to be incentivized to mine - which if course the are, with miners ever fighting to become more efficient, and with hash rate ever increasing at at a record high: See https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-hashrate.html#3y

Hash rate going up ≠ miners thriving. It just means newer ASICs and bigger farms are pushing smaller players out. Efficiency gains aren’t the same as profitability — and miners can’t “will” BTC’s price or fees higher to stay solvent.

[obsidian]

Same reason that people thought that any business whose stock price was overvalued eventually lost their money. Short term market is a voting machine "they thought it was valuable", long term its a weighing machine. I can't believe this is not obvious to you, but Eth will over time, gravitate to the value of its discounted cash-flow, and because its utility (unlike Gold or BTC) is not store of value (whether analogue or digital). The battle over that false narrative has already long been lost.

As to Eth being a "scarce asset" therefore it has value argument, that is absolute nonsense. Any crypto created is a "scarce asset". You need to look into further factors, in deciding which of the infinite number of such assets have the traits that will make it the most desired store of value among others. How secure, how widely adopted, how liquid, how it was created, risk it can be compromised, etc. I could do a shit on piece of paper. It would be a "scarce asset", but that would not ensure that it has, or retains value.

As for "here's only 6 ETH for 1 BTC. The current ratio is a gift to Bitcoin maxis", you surely know yourself this is totally deceptive nonsense. There are a certain number of any thing to 1BTC, be it gold, silver, Nvidia stock, frogs or lemons. This does not mean that those things will appreciate against BTC - indeed quite the opposite - all will depreciate in value against BTC over time. So, not sure what point you are trying to make here, but either way, it's totally irrelevant to the value of Eth, especially in any case, given that the total supply of Eth is not fixed.

You can’t claim PE ratios “don’t apply” to BTC — they can’t apply, because BTC earns nothing. ETH generates revenue and burns supply. Bitcoin just burns electricity. ETH is a productive asset; BTC is a static one.

[gib]

Eth, and every single "alt" - none of it exists or succeeds without BTC. BTC is the foundation, and basically all of shitcoinery is dilutive to BTC's value, at least in the short term. Not in the long term, as true fundamentals always will determine long term price. Lessons will be learned - I keep saying it. Eth may be interesting to you, but that is a different topic than what is a good investment.

Its the energy used to create BTC (and to obtain gold and diamonds in the analogue world), that drives demand. Which is why physical assets that can be created out thin air don't typically hold value, although are prone to a little pop due to initial novelty.

The decline in the Eth to BTC ratio will continue. By 2028, I expect Eth will be at around .015 to .02 BTC for one Eth, for pretty obvious reasons. You have had many chances to heed this warning, and to make the switch. Even if just to slowly DCA in to BTC. Painful I know, but just think about how you will feel in hindsight if you don't. We are all here to help each other. And I do truly wish that in the years ahead, you will be thanking me (or rather yourself), as opposed to having regrets...

[obsidian]

Its the energy used to create BTC (and to obtain gold and diamonds in the analogue world), that drives demand. Which is why physical assets that can be created out thin air don't typically hold value, although are prone to a little pop due to initial novelty.

The decline in the Eth to BTC ratio will continue. By 2028, I expect Eth will be at around .015 to .02 BTC for one Eth, for pretty obvious reasons. You have had many chances to heed this warning, and to make the switch. Even if just to slowly DCA in to BTC. Painful I know, but just think about how you will feel in hindsight if you don't. We are all here to help each other. And I do truly wish that in the years ahead, you will be thanking me (or rather yourself), as opposed to having regrets...

ETH is created with energy. It's impossible to create it without energy. Only it is more efficient that Bitcoin. An analogy is a horse vs car. Both can get you from point A to B, but the car is a more efficient way of getting there.

The decline in the Eth to BTC ratio will continue. By 2028, I expect Eth will be at around .015 to .02 BTC for one Eth, for pretty obvious reasons.

Just checking — you realize that means 1 ETH = 50–66 BTC, right?
So you're predicting the flippening squared and didn't even notice 😂

When the “obvious” math in your warning literally implies the opposite of what you think, maybe tone down the condescension. ETH’s not the only thing that's more energy-efficient — so is thinking things through.

[Griffith]

Ethereum Foundation Launches Institution-Focused Website

The Ethereum Ethereum Foundation (EF) has released its "Ethereum for Institutions" website, a dedicated online portal developed by the Enterprise Acceleration team that aims to guide businesses adopting Ethereum and showcase the ecosystem building a new financial system.

Institutional Gateway: The site serves as a central resource for institutional builders entering the Ethereum ecosystem. It outlines key components of the Ethereum infrastructure stack to guide banks, asset managers, and fintechs as they explore Ethereum for settlement, tokenization, and payments infrastructure.

Ecosystem Support: Ethereum for Institutions also showcases the litany of crypto-native applications that have achieved success on Ethereum throughout various corners of the crypto industry, from privacy solutions to L2 scaling systems to core DeFi primitives.

Adoption Momentum: Ethereum is already a backbone for financial innovation. The EF's institutional webpage highlights the success of companies like BlackRock, Visa, eToro, and Coinbase Coinbase collectively manage billions in assets and trillions in transaction volume across Ethereum-based platforms.

https://www.bankless.com/read/news/ethereum-foundation-launches-institution-focused-website

[gib]

Just checking — you realize that means 1 ETH = 50–66 BTC, right?
So you're predicting the flippening squared and didn't even notice 😂

No, it means it currently costs you .035 BTC for one Eth. And this ratio will continue to decline to a cost of 015 to .02 BTC by 2028. So - no flippening (that was just a fantasy scam of the Eth hypers, which we saw failed miserably this last cycle), and basically a continuation of the long term decline in value of Eth to BTC, (to the extent that it even makes sense to compare these assets).

[gib]

Greyscale "Solana ETF".

https://etfs.grayscale.com/gsol

[obsidian]

No, it means it currently costs you .035 BTC for one Eth. And this ratio will continue to decline to a cost of 015 to .02 BTC by 2028. So - no flippening (that was just a fantasy scam of the Eth hypers, which we saw failed miserably this last cycle), and basically a continuation of the long term decline in value of Eth to BTC, (to the extent that it even makes sense to compare these assets).

Oh shit you're right - lol! I read that wrong for some reason.

I hope you're wrong for the simple reason that your "glibness" is annoying as fuck! 

You might want to get off your pedestal for a second. Damn!

[gib]

Oh shit you're right - lol! I read that wrong for some reason.

I hope you're wrong for the simple reason that your "glibness" is annoying as fuck! 

You might want to get off your pedestal for a second. Damn!

Lol - well funny thing is I initially thought you were right! Had to read what you wrote, and then what I wrote a few times myself to be sure. Sometimes I type from a sauna or jacuzzi on my phone, and so do slip up with spelling etc.

[chaos]

Have either of you actually held paper money? A coin? A silver, platinum or gold bar? Following along with this talk about digital numbers on a screen that hold no practical value is lessening my hope for the future.

[gib]

Have either of you actually held paper money? A coin? A silver, platinum or gold bar? Following along with this talk about digital numbers on a screen that hold no practical value is lessening my hope for the future.

A few comments. By "held" to you mean physically "held" (as in your hand), or "owned" in the colloquial sense?

In my case, I have around 10% of my wealth in fiat currency, and the bulk of it in listed companies, and real estate.

Bear in mind that all fiat money is basically "digital numbers on a screen", only much worse that Bitcoin, in that such numbers can be instantly, and infinitely created and diluted by a Government (unlike Bitcoin which is our defence against that type of theft by debasement), and that those numbers on a screen representing your "paper money" can only be accessed if the bank wishes to let you do so (ie - its not your money, unlike Bitcoin which is a bearer asset), and which you can only use if the Government actually allows you to do so (unlike Bitcoin which cannot be censored).

I also own physical gold and silver (and indeed I love the feeling on holding gold). Never owned Platinum or Palladium.

If you go back in the history of this thread, during my early battles with Mr Anabolic, you will see that at one point I was provoked into showing proof of both my gold and my equities balances (not that any of this really matters in terms of the views, opinions and predictions a person makes - but i did show it, to put Mr Anabolic into his place. The problem with gold, for someone like me who moves between multiple countries, is that you can't carry large amounts with you. So, most of mine stays in a safe, with a private bank. (And I just hope and trust that one day, if needed, I can access it and it will still be there!).

Its good to be worried about the security of your wealth. If you don't yet have any Bitcoin, it really is essential that you get some. You will see insane scarcity and FOMO demand mania when the time comes that BTC is needed. You will see...