Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!

[obsidian]

Why when it goes up and you hold some, it isn't manipulated?

Why is it only manipulated when a person holds some and it doesn't go up?

Price has never fallen below the 1yr bottom. When it happens is that manipulation to?

We know what BTC actually know what BTC is now. We don't quite know what ETH is. All we know is it was launch and BTC holders rotated over to pump it but it was all OGs and there created "alt season". So the next cycle the rotation occured and alt season repeated. That is manipulation.......

The next cycle it didn't occur. It was SOL. So we have 2 rotations out of 3.

Yet an ETF has been created which means it does mean something. We don't know what yet.

You're arguing against a point I never made. I'm not saying ETH is manipulated only when it goes down. I'm questioning the entire five-year price action — the peaks AND the valleys. Manipulation doesn't have to mean suppressing a price; it can mean pumping it just as easily. Calling out the volatility isn't the same as being upset about losing money. You're debating my portfolio, not my argument.

And just look at the five-year chart I've attached. Seriously, does that look like a healthy, organic price discovery journey to you? Look at those peaks and valleys. I'm not claiming the chart alone proves manipulation, but if that doesn't at least raise an eyebrow, I don't know what will. A mountain range isn't proof of manipulation, but pretending there's nothing unusual about the terrain is just as intellectually dishonest.

[Griffith]

You're arguing against a point I never made. I'm not saying ETH is manipulated only when it goes down. I'm questioning the entire five-year price action — the peaks AND the valleys. Manipulation doesn't have to mean suppressing a price; it can mean pumping it just as easily. Calling out the volatility isn't the same as being upset about losing money. You're debating my portfolio, not my argument.

And just look at the five-year chart I've attached. Seriously, does that look like a healthy, organic price discovery journey to you? Look at those peaks and valleys. I'm not claiming the chart alone proves manipulation, but if that doesn't at least raise an eyebrow, I don't know what will. A mountain range isn't proof of manipulation, but pretending there's nothing unusual about the terrain is just as intellectually dishonest.

Take a look at the 1 minute chart for ETH today, a wick from about 2435 to 2310 (just under the low of the past few hours) for a few seconds with a sudden large spike in sell volume and then instantly back to the 2435 range.

Could have been market makers taking out people's stop losses, but there was nothing like that on BTC.

[gib]

Eth dropped 50% to BTC last 4 year cycle, and then 50% to BTC the prior 4 year cycle.

Its a terrible performance, (and I have explained why this would happen many times throughout this thread).

[Griffith]

All that matters is how much you make after you've bought and sold.

[obsidian]

Take a look at the 1 minute chart for ETH today, a wick from about 2435 to 2310 (just under the low of the past few hours) for a few seconds with a sudden large spike in sell volume and then instantly back to the 2435 range.

Could have been market makers taking out people's stop losses, but there was nothing like that on BTC.

Either way, I really don't want to be invested long-term in an asset that can't get its shit together and is so easily manipulated.

Right now, I recognize that I'm dealing with a sunk-cost fallacy when it comes to ETH. I'm disgusted by its price action, but I'm stubborn enough that I'd rather ride it all the way to zero than jump ship and move into another asset. I genuinely believe ETH is significantly undervalued, but markets can remain irrational for a long time, and there's no guarantee that the market will eventually recognize its value. If ETH reaches a price point where I feel I've been adequately compensated for putting up with all this drama, I will absolutely sell off 50% or more of my position.

Bitcoin has worked out great for Gib, but I think he's far too confident in the long-term sustainability of its proof-of-work (PoW) model. I just don't see how miners will continue securing the network if doing so becomes economically unprofitable. Meanwhile, AI is going to consume an enormous amount of energy, potentially competing with Bitcoin mining for the same resources.

On top of that, I think BTC is currently overvalued relative to the rest of the crypto market. Gib claims Bitcoin is the future of finance. Seriously? It can barely process seven transactions per second on its base layer. Meanwhile, JPMorgan and other major financial institutions are building blockchain-based financial infrastructure on Ethereum and other networks.

So how exactly does Bitcoin become the future of finance when its base-layer transaction capacity is so limited, and much of the institutional infrastructure being developed is happening elsewhere?

[gib]

All that matters is how much you make after you've bought and sold.

Well if you are a Bitcoiner, you don't actually "sell", so what what matters is how much your prevailing fiat currency has devalued to your BTC. But, I know what you mean...

[gib]

Either way, I really don't want to be invested long-term in an asset that can't get its shit together and is so easily manipulated.

Right now, I recognize that I'm dealing with a sunk-cost fallacy when it comes to ETH. I'm disgusted by its price action, but I'm stubborn enough that I'd rather ride it all the way to zero than jump ship and move into another asset. I genuinely believe ETH is significantly undervalued, but markets can remain irrational for a long time, and there's no guarantee that the market will eventually recognize its value. If ETH reaches a price point where I feel I've been adequately compensated for putting up with all this drama, I will absolutely sell off 50% or more of my position.

Bitcoin has worked out great for Gib, but I think he's far too confident in the long-term sustainability of its proof-of-work (PoW) model. I just don't see how miners will continue securing the network if doing so becomes economically unprofitable. Meanwhile, AI is going to consume an enormous amount of energy, potentially competing with Bitcoin mining for the same resources.

On top of that, I think BTC is currently overvalued relative to the rest of the crypto market. Gib claims Bitcoin is the future of finance. Seriously? It can barely process seven transactions per second on its base layer. Meanwhile, JPMorgan and other major financial institutions are building blockchain-based financial infrastructure on Ethereum and other networks.

So how exactly does Bitcoin become the future of finance when its base-layer transaction capacity is so limited, and much of the institutional infrastructure being developed is happening elsewhere?

Dude tried so many times to get you over. Remember, I was saying just to bite the bullet and at least move some over to BTC over time. Or, just pull the band aid off all at once.

You still really don't seem to get it -all this JP Morgan building on Eth etc. Eth is not used as a store of value - that was a deliberate affinity confusion from the outset. It is a transaction technology, which earns revenue, but also has many competitors. BTC, because of the energy correlation and Proof of Work is DIGITIZED SCARCITY. It is the base layer of the future financial system in terms of store of value. It IS THE LEDGER FOR ALL ECONOMIC ENERGY  - that its simple, but only function. Every thing else, and many things, will be done with blockchain technology, but BTC's role remains the same in all of that. Effectively any usefulness of ETH, or any other blockchain, are ultimately measured in BTC. This has always been clear to me, but it will become increasingly obvious to all over time.

[gib]

Eth getting absolutely raped today.

And what an absolute disgrace, Vitalik seemingly admitting "proof of stake" was an mistake, and that he wishes Eth could be repositioned as a store of value (seemingly admitting that real scarcity requires effort to achieve it - ie BTC Proof of Work), seemingly contracting the narrative of the so called "Ethereum foundation".

What an absolute dogs breakfast...