Not everyone who claims to be a Christian really is one.

[MCKEE]

John 10:30-33
"I and the Father are one."
Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"
"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

Hi Loco

You know I have heard this many time "I and the Father are one." I have been asking the christian faith. What is the context of this and believe me I have'nt got an answer yet. Can you maybe answer. What is the context of that statement?

[MCKEE]

Loco


Just to repeat myself. Begetting is a animal act. It belongs to the lower functions of sex. How in the world can you assosiate the all Mighty with a quality like that. You Muslims and Christians say the same thing(certain aspects) the only thing that differs is the terminology.e.g According to christiandum the bible is the word of God. We Muslims say it is not the word of God(but the word of God is in it e.g Deuteronomy 18:18

If it were the word of God how bout ezekiel chapter 23 about the hordum of those two sister. Would that also be the word of God.

The words of the Prohets are also in the bible so is the word of Historians.

[MCKEE]

You know more than 700 times in the bible you here the statement. And the lord said unto Moses and Moses said unto the Lord. WORD OF GOD HUH? I dont think so.....

[MCKEE]

 Hi STella
Please have a look at the following verse should you get a chance. This is to answer your question about the honor of Marry mother of Jesus in the holy Quraan.

Chapter 3 verse 42
Behold the angel says 'o' Marry
Allah has chosen thee
Purified Thee
Chosen thee above the women of All nations

Thats just one I can give more should you need it

[Butterbean]

I don't think the dietary stuff in Leviticus was part of the "old" law.  I haven't read that part in a while, but I don't recall any verses specifically saying it was. 

Maybe by "old law" we are referring to 2 different things?  This is the Mosaic Law (I think):


Leviticus 11 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

   

Leviticus 11
Clean and Unclean Food
 1 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'Of all the animals that live on land, these are the ones you may eat: 3 You may eat any animal that has a split hoof completely divided and that chews the cud.
 4 " 'There are some that only chew the cud or only have a split hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you. 5 The coney, [a] though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. 6 The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. 7 And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.

[Nordic Superman]

Stella, your moderation privileges should be removed from the religious debates forum, for you claim to be Christian, however the truth is yee are not:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=109125.0

Ironic considering the title of this thread.

[Butterbean]

Stella, your moderation privileges should be removed from the religious debates forum, for you claim to be Christian, however the truth is yee are not:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=109125.0

Ironic considering the title of this thread.

 

[Nordic Superman]

Your reactions to my criticisms gives me the impression you proclaim yourself Christian for selfish reasons.

E.g. you're a Christian because you want to go to heaven, not for the actual real messages of Christianity.

Unfotunately as a athiest I don't believe you'll goto hell, so it's depressing knowning your selfish ways on Earth will go unpunished

[Bigger Business]

i saw some god squad laughing and patting each others asses out the front of a choich yesterday.

"heavens gonna be so dope"

I'm sure thats what one of em said

[Butterbean]

Your reactions to my criticisms gives me the impression you proclaim yourself Christian for selfish reasons.

E.g. you're a Christian because you want to go to heaven, not for the actual real messages of Christianity.

Unfotunately as a athiest I don't believe you'll goto hell, so it's depressing knowning your selfish ways on Earth will go unpunished

 

[Butterbean]

ah... I'm just messing w/you Nordic Superman.  I'd actually prefer to drive a car, but I need to have either a truck or SUV.

[Nordic Superman]

ah... I'm just messing w/you Nordic Superman.  I'd actually prefer to drive a car, but I need to have either a truck or SUV.

If it's a nesseccity then God might let you off, otherwise prepare to meet my little friend:

[Butterbean]

that made me think of that old, old movie that Tom Cruise was in....The Legend or something like that....

Also reminded me of this album cover (yes, I said album ):

[Dos Equis]

Maybe by "old law" we are referring to 2 different things?  This is the Mosaic Law (I think):


Leviticus 11 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

   

Leviticus 11
Clean and Unclean Food
 1 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'Of all the animals that live on land, these are the ones you may eat: 3 You may eat any animal that has a split hoof completely divided and that chews the cud.
 4 " 'There are some that only chew the cud or only have a split hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you. 5 The coney, [a] though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. 6 The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. 7 And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.

These seem to be dietary guidelines instead of rituals that they had to perform as part of religious services, prayer, etc.  The way I view those passages is they were probably required to follow these guidelines when they were given, but they are just guidelines today (i.e., not a sin).  On the other hand, I think the studies discussed in T. Colin Campbell's "The China Study" show both the "clean" and "unclean" stuff referenced in those passages are unhealthy.  At least if you're concerned about optimum health.     

[a_joker10]

Judge not lest ye be Judged.

I seriously break this all the time.
However , I think it applies here.
Jesus alone knows who will go to heaven.
Worrying whether other people will or won't go to heaven is counter productive and will limit your ability to comprehend God's work and his plan for you.

[loco]

Judge not lest ye be Judged.

I seriously break this all the time.
However , I think it applies here.
Jesus alone knows who will go to heaven.
Worrying whether other people will or won't go to heaven is counter productive and will limit your ability to comprehend God's work and his plan for you.

I'm not judging anybody.  I simply quoted Jesus Christ's own words on the matter.  I let him be the judge.

Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven"

Matthew 7:22-23
"Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'
Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

Matthew 7:13-14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

[loco]

Loco


Just to repeat myself. Begetting is a animal act. It belongs to the lower functions of sex. How in the world can you assosiate the all Mighty with a quality like that. You Muslims and Christians say the same thing(certain aspects) the only thing that differs is the terminology.e.g According to christiandum the bible is the word of God. We Muslims say it is not the word of God(but the word of God is in it e.g Deuteronomy 18:18

If it were the word of God how bout ezekiel chapter 23 about the hordum of those two sister. Would that also be the word of God.

The words of the Prohets are also in the bible so is the word of Historians.

McKee, STella already answered this question for you.  Did you miss it?

From C.S. Lewis:

 "What God begets is God; just as what man begets is man. What God creates is not God; just as what man makes is not man. That is why men are not Sons of God in the sense that Christ is. They may be like God in certain ways, but they are not things of the same kind. They are more like statues or pictures of God."

[loco]

Hi Loco
You know I have heard this many time "I and the Father are one." I have been asking the christian faith. What is the context of this and believe me I have'nt got an answer yet. Can you maybe answer. What is the context of that statement?

Hi McKee!  This is the context:  The Jews were asking Jesus "Who are you?  Are you the Christ(Messiah) or not?  Tell us."  So, Jesus told them that he is GOD.  The Jews have never believed that their Messiah, whom they are still expecting, is GOD.  They believe that their Messiah will be a mere man sent by GOD.  Here is more of the story:

John 10
22Then came the Feast of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23and Jesus was in the temple area walking in Solomon's Colonnade. 24The Jews gathered around him, saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ,[c] tell us plainly."
 25Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[d]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one."

 31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"

 33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

I hope that this helps answer your question.

[Butterbean]

"heavens gonna be so dope"

I'm sure thats what one of em said

[MCKEE]

I am overwhelmed by that. You see you have given the correct answer but your understanding of that is incorrect. You see when he says i and my father are one it simply means that we are one in faith(belief). You know Jesus goes out of his way to say "The miracles I do in my Father's name ", "29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all" How can he be God when he refers to his father who has all power.

[loco]

I am overwhelmed by that. You see you have given the correct answer but your understanding of that is incorrect. You see when he says i and my father are one it simply means that we are one in faith(belief). You know Jesus goes out of his way to say "The miracles I do in my Father's name ", "29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all" How can he be God when he refers to his father who has all power.

No, McKee.  Jesus did not say that he and the Father are one ONLY in faith(belief).   Who told you this?  That's not in the scriptures.  Jesus is saying that he and the Father are one GOD, that he and the Father are one and the same.  Jesus is claiming to be GOD.  Keep reading...

John 10:33
"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

John 14:8-9
Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."
Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

John 12:44-45
Then Jesus cried out, "When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me.  When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me

Matthew 23:37
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing."

John 5:17-18
Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working."
For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

John 8:57-58
"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"   

(EGOEIMI)=I AM God. Check it in Greek, from a reliable lexical source, not some English dictionary.

Looking back in the Old Testament
Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, "I am who I am . This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

McKee,
When you read the Bible you should remember reading that whenever an angel appeared to a man, and the man would kneel before the angel and worshiped the angel, the angel would always say something along the lines "Get up, do not worship me, for I am nothing but a servant just like you."  But whenever people would kneel before Jesus and worshiped him, Jesus did not stop them.  Instead Jesus allowed them to worship him.  Likewise, when people called Jesus GOD, Jesus did not correct them or stop them.

John 20:28-29
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

[OneBigMan]

Nobody distinctly knows what it totally means to be a caring christian because too many people prove that society is a vicious jungle where having power is what makes you stand out from other people that are not equal to the chosen citizens who are well connected by wealth.

[Tre]

As I understand it, you have to believe in the immaculate conception in order to be a Christian.

If you don't buy into the concept of the virgin birth (and I certainly do not), then a Christian you will never be.

 

[OzmO]

Interesting..........


Could GOD then be unable to perform a miracle?

I think so.

[Butterbean]

As I understand it, you have to believe in the immaculate conception in order to be a Christian.

If you don't buy into the concept of the virgin birth (and I certainly do not), then a Christian you will never be.

 

This is really interesting Tre.  I've never really thought about it before.  Here are some interesting comments I found from cbscottreport.blogspot.c om:


At September 22, 2006 7:37 AM, WTJeff said...
cb,

I think the key lies in much of what bob cleveland said. At the time of my salvation, the virgin birth wasn't even a thought, but as I grew in the faith, through the discernment of the Holy Spirit, I accepted the virgin birth as truth. 1 Cor. 2:14 says - "14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." The bigger question to me is this -- If one makes a profession of faith and then denies the Virgin Birth, is that person saved?" IMHO 1 Cor. 2:13 would indicate that they are not saved.

Great question, cb. Thanks.

Grace,

Jeff Parsons




At September 22, 2006 6:40 AM, brad reynolds said...
CB
Some argue that what is important is the virgin conception and not the virgin birth. However, that just begs the question concerning their belief in the integrity of Scripture (which certainly implies Barthian tendencies).
Nevertheless, in my opinion one cannot deny the virgin birth and be saved.
BR


At September 22, 2006 5:02 AM, Bob Cleveland said...
Wow. A question of unending ramifications.

We all banter around the thought of whether folks are "really saved". They walk the aisle and say the prayer and then a good portion of them never go anywhere and show no change, and many simply fall away. And we worry about making that fit into "once saved, always saved".

First question: when, exactly, do you become "saved"? If it's when you trust Jesus, conforming to all the right original-meaning words, that can be done without even knowing about, much less accepting, the virgin birth. And I think that's mostly the way it really happens.

So .. what's supposed to happen then? For me, it's that you become a new spiritual being. You're no longer a "natural man" who cannot receive the "things of the Spirit". Hence you now have "Spiritual discernment". I think one of the works of the Holy Spirit would be discernment of the truth of the virgin birth.

Perhaps belief in the virgin birth is not a requirement for salvation. Perhaps it is actually a litmus test as to whether you really were saved when you walked the aisle & said the words.



At September 22, 2006 8:23 AM, tim rogers said...
Brother CB,

Was my believing the Virgin Birth to be true necessary for my Salvation? If I believed that only parts of the Bible are true, then no! Because then you can pick and choose which parts you can believe and when you want to believe them. I remember hearing preachers when I was growing up in a church that was conservative, but did not know they had moderate preachers. Sometimes you would hear the preacher say after reading the Scripture, "Let this become the Word of God to you." Which says that it is not the Word of God until it becomes the Word of God for me. Therefore, I get to choose from the Bible what I believe is true and what is not.

If I believe all of the Bible is true, then it quite naturally means that I must believe in the Virgin Birth. Is the belief in the Virgin Birth necessary for a Christian? You better believe it is. Is belief in the Virgin Birth necessary for one to be saved? Once again, Yes! It is in the BIBLE! You must believe the Bible is true in order to believe Salvation is true. Is teaching the Virgin Birth in one's presentation of the Gospel necessary? No! When the plan of salvation is presented we normally say something along these lines; "I would like to share with you how the BIBLE answers that question, if I could."

Belief in TRUE TRUTH is necessary for Salvation.

Blessings,
Tim

Interesting..........


Could GOD then be unable to perform a miracle?

I think so.

What are you saying here OzmO?