Bodybuilding and being a Christian?

[Jeff Miller]

Its all a question of priorities and what is your "god".  Many Christians have "gods" that they place before GOD and don't even know it.  What has control of your life?  I would submit that there is your "god".  Smoking, drinking, gambling, wealth (and its acquisition), INTERNET, food, bodybuilding,...........the list goes on.  If ANYTHING OTHER THAN GOD runs your life, then as a Christian you have a problem.  That's not to say that work of any kind is evil, but you gotta know what wins out when push comes to shove. 

[D-bol]

to you list of "gods" I would also add church

[Jeff Miller]

to you list of "gods" I would also add church

You know what, I actually kind of agree with you.  Some folks go to church just to go to church, with no real purpose.  If the purpose of going to church is to get closer to God, to better facilitiate your feeling of connection with the holy, then good on ya.  If its just to show everyone else how "holy" you are, if being a Super Christian is your schtick, then I would say its all for the wrong reasons.

An Army chaplain I used to know actually had a pretty good spin on church.  He said folks should treat a church like a FOB (Forward Operating Base).  You go there to get spiritually resupplied, but spend most of your time out in the world "on patrol".  If, as a Christian, the only way you can feel close ot God is by going to church, then there is a fundamental flaw in your understanding of Christianity and God's hopes for a relationship with you.

My $0.02.

[D-bol]

Its bad if one goes to show other people, but its much worse if one sincerely thinks that by going to church often (here I mean the actual act of going to the church service) he is somehow a better christian.

A true believer does not need a middle man between God and himself and therefore needs no institution like church.

[Tre]

A true believer does not need a middle man between God and himself and therefore needs no institution like church.

True non-believers don't either.

[Count Grishnackh]

Couple of pretty good posts Mr Miller.

[fitt@40]

Its all a question of priorities and what is your "god".  Many Christians have "gods" that they place before GOD and don't even know it.  What has control of your life?  I would submit that there is your "god".  Smoking, drinking, gambling, wealth (and its acquisition), INTERNET, food, bodybuilding,...........the list goes on.  If ANYTHING OTHER THAN GOD runs your life, then as a Christian you have a problem.  That's not to say that work of any kind is evil, but you gotta know what wins out when push comes to shove. 

If a person places anything before God, doesn't that disqualify (couldn't think of a better word) from being a Christian?  As Tre and others have said, just because a person calls him or herself a Christian, it doesn't make it so.

[Jeff Miller]

If a person places anything before God, doesn't that disqualify (couldn't think of a better word) from being a Christian?  As Tre and others have said, just because a person calls him or herself a Christian, it doesn't make it so.

Being a Christian is simple, but a lot of people make it complicated.  Good deeds, good works, church attendance, and a general lifeview FLOW from surrendering yourself to Christ and striving to be like Him.  Unfortunately, a lot of people have it backwards and believe that through good works, good deeds, going to church, etc, they can be a Christian.  All that is required to be a Christian is to accept Christ into your life, acknowledge him as your Savior, ask His forgiveness, and honor Him.  Christ even made it easier to understand and abide by the 10 Commandments:  "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength'' and "Love your neighbor as yourself" (Mark 12:30-31) sum up the 10 Commandments; abide by those and you have all your bases covered.  You can be a Christian and have your priorities all screwed up -- I had my priorities out of whack for a long time, but I still knew that I was a Christian and that I had made my covenant with God in my heart.  I don't think that a Christian can categorize him/herself or others as good or bad Christians.  It is not for us to judge, but to strive throughout our lives to be ever better.

I always remember Matthew 7:3-5, in which Christ said "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?  How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?  You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."  I feel that, to some degree, I will always have a plank in my eye.

The world is full of hypocrites, and some of them call themselves Christians.  I would ask that those of you who have encountered such hypocrites do not broadly label the rest of us the same (and that really applies to any religion).

[Jeff Miller]

Couple of pretty good posts Mr Miller.

Appreciate it, Count.

[Parker]

You know what, I actually kind of agree with you.  Some folks go to church just to go to church, with no real purpose.  If the purpose of going to church is to get closer to God, to better facilitiate your feeling of connection with the holy, then good on ya.  If its just to show everyone else how "holy" you are, if being a Super Christian is your schtick, then I would say its all for the wrong reasons.

An Army chaplain I used to know actually had a pretty good spin on church.  He said folks should treat a church like a FOB (Forward Operating Base).  You go there to get spiritually resupplied, but spend most of your time out in the world "on patrol".  If, as a Christian, the only way you can feel close ot God is by going to church, then there is a fundamental flaw in your understanding of Christianity and God's hopes for a relationship with you.

My $0.02.

I believe God is not found in a building. God is all around you. In the trees, the air. If you look for God in a man made building then you are looking in the wrong place, God is within you. Now one can use the church to unlock God from within you so that you can grasp it, but nothing else.

[fitt@40]

Being a Christian is simple, but a lot of people make it complicated.  Good deeds, good works, church attendance, and a general lifeview FLOW from surrendering yourself to Christ and striving to be like Him.  Unfortunately, a lot of people have it backwards and believe that through good works, good deeds, going to church, etc, they can be a Christian.  All that is required to be a Christian is to accept Christ into your life, acknowledge him as your Savior, ask His forgiveness, and honor Him.  Christ even made it easier to understand and abide by the 10 Commandments:  "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength'' and "Love your neighbor as yourself" (Mark 12:30-31) sum up the 10 Commandments; abide by those and you have all your bases covered.  You can be a Christian and have your priorities all screwed up -- I had my priorities out of whack for a long time, but I still knew that I was a Christian and that I had made my covenant with God in my heart.  I don't think that a Christian can categorize him/herself or others as good or bad Christians.  It is not for us to judge, but to strive throughout our lives to be ever better.

I always remember Matthew 7:3-5, in which Christ said "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?  How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?  You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."  I feel that, to some degree, I will always have a plank in my eye.

The world is full of hypocrites, and some of them call themselves Christians.  I would ask that those of you who have encountered such hypocrites do not broadly label the rest of us the same (and that really applies to any religion).

An excellent post!  I do somewhat disagree with a person can have their priorities out of line and still be a Christian.  I think God judges us based on our level of faith and knowledge.  If I know that it's a sin to even look at a woman with lust, then I'm held accountable for that.  I do understand that having your priorities out of line can simply mean that one is not devoting enough time to God.  Certainly this does not have to prevent someone from being Saved.  However, there is a point whereby our will can keep us from God's Will, and ultimately from being Saved. 

[Jeff Miller]

An excellent post!  I do somewhat disagree with a person can have their priorities out of line and still be a Christian.  I think God judges us based on our level of faith and knowledge.  If I know that it's a sin to even look at a woman with lust, then I'm held accountable for that.  I do understand that having your priorities out of line can simply mean that one is not devoting enough time to God.  Certainly this does not have to prevent someone from being Saved.  However, there is a point whereby our will can keep us from God's Will, and ultimately from being Saved. 

Absolutely.  Some of our acts CAN distance us from God.  But referencing my previous post, I firmly believe that our acts flow from our relationship with God and Christ.  And when talking of priorities, I was making a big assumption about still attempting to live a virtuous life.  If someone sins constantly and KNOWINGLY, just figuring they can be forgiven when they are done with this round of sins and all is well, then I would submit that they are NOT a Christian -- they have violated the basic tenets of the covenant Christ has made with us to receive Salvation.  This was a common occurance several hundred years ago in the Catholic Church, when the noble and wealthy would live lives of debauchery and every sin imaginable, then beg forgiveness on their deathbeds and receive absolution (usually for a large sum of money).  But time has given us more insight into the true relationship that Christians should strive for and the lifeview we should adopt.

But that is a great point that our will CAN keep us from God's will.  The BRAVEST thing I have ever seen is someone completely submit themselves to God's will and ask "what would You have me do?" 

[D-bol]

A This was a common occurance several hundred years ago in the Catholic Church, when the noble and wealthy would live lives of debauchery and every sin imaginable, then beg forgiveness on their deathbeds and receive absolution (usually for a large sum of money).   

I think it is still a common occurance even today. Its just taken another form, but the essence is the same.

[fitt@40]

Absolutely.  Some of our acts CAN distance us from God.  But referencing my previous post, I firmly believe that our acts flow from our relationship with God and Christ.  And when talking of priorities, I was making a big assumption about still attempting to live a virtuous life.  If someone sins constantly and KNOWINGLY, just figuring they can be forgiven when they are done with this round of sins and all is well, then I would submit that they are NOT a Christian -- they have violated the basic tenets of the covenant Christ has made with us to receive Salvation.  This was a common occurance several hundred years ago in the Catholic Church, when the noble and wealthy would live lives of debauchery and every sin imaginable, then beg forgiveness on their deathbeds and receive absolution (usually for a large sum of money).  But time has given us more insight into the true relationship that Christians should strive for and the lifeview we should adopt.

But that is a great point that our will CAN keep us from God's will.  The BRAVEST thing I have ever seen is someone completely submit themselves to God's will and ask "what would You have me do?" 

We are saying the same thing.  I, too, met someone who submitted himself to God's Will.  It's interesting that you described such a person as being brave.  When I first met this person, I thought he was kind of weak and timid.  There was a situation in which he had been obviously wronged by a co-worker.  When I suggested that he "in no uncertain terms, correct the individual", he simply said (paraphrasing) "I'd rather be wronged than risk being separated from God."  At the time I did not know that was Scripture, but it still made quite an impression on me.  Don't get me wrong, there were times when he was quite forceful and adamant.  He truly seemed to wait for God's guidance in all situations. 

Back to the question at hand.  I agree with you in that our acts flow from our relationship with God and Christ.  I'm just having a hard time seeing bodybuilding as an activity approved by Christ.  I will submit to the fact that it's possible that I may be the problem.  In other words, bodybuilding may be sinful only for me.  I doubt this is the case, but I do allow for it being a possibility.

[fitt@40]

I believe God is not found in a building. God is all around you. In the trees, the air. If you look for God in a man made building then you are looking in the wrong place, God is within you. Now one can use the church to unlock God from within you so that you can grasp it, but nothing else.

I agree with you in that God is not found in a building.  He is within us; our hearts.  However, one cannot dismiss the significance of the Church (the building).  Do you recall what happen and what was said when Christ got angry in the Temple.  He was angry because they were using the the House of God (the building) as a market place.  He went on to tell them to destroy the Temple and that He would rebuild it in three days.  Even the High Priests did not realize He was talking about his body.

[Jeff Miller]

I'm just having a hard time seeing bodybuilding as an activity approved by Christ.  I will submit to the fact that it's possible that I may be the problem.  In other words, bodybuilding may be sinful only for me.  I doubt this is the case, but I do allow for it being a possibility.

IMHO, if bodybuilding is interfering with your relationship with God, then its a problem.  And I think only you can say that.

But as far as pros thanking God for their wins, etc., I think its all false and hypocritical.  God did not put the drugs in their veins or set up the homosexual-friendly websites to fund their lifestyle -- there is really nothing Christian about that.

[Butterbean]

What are your thoughts on being a Christian and the lifestyle  of a bodybuilder?  I'm only talking about the typical things required to be a successful bodybuilder.

I often hear bodybuilders (from professionals to local competitors) say that their efforts are of God.  I've always found that interesting.  This is not an attempt to slander anyone's opinion or push mine.  Just curious as to what a Christian bodybuilder has to say.

   

The abbreviated biblical definition of a Christian is someone who recognizes their need for a savior and has accepted Christ as such.
 
There is nothing we can DO to gain or keep our salvation, it is a free gift provided by God.
 
Eph 2:8,9:  "You are saved by GRACE through faith and NOT of works so that no one can boast."
 
 
 
Can you be a bodybuilder and be a Christian?  Yes.  Can a Christian be a bodybuilder that shoots illegal drugs into his veins?  Yes. 
 
Do some Christians purposely ignore the speed limit?  Yes. 
 
Will these things make them lose their salvation?  If they are truly saved, no.  BEing a "Christian" is not defined by the Christian's works or behavior.  A Christian is defined as someone that has accepted by faith the free gift of forgiveness.
 


Are these people "good" Christians?  I don't know.  There are too many factors to consider besides these......I don't know anyone who is perfectly "good" of course.  Is anyone "good" 100% of the time?  No.

If someone has accepted Christ as Savior, they are forgiven....they are biblically defined as a "Christian" whether they shoplifted a tonka truck this morning or worked in a soup kitchen.

God wants us to live in a certain way, but how we live doesn't make us a Christian or a non-Christian.  Whether you've accepted or rejected Christ is what determines if you are a Christian or not.

Some people may seem more "Christlike" than others, but you never know what goes on behind closed doors.
 
 

[Butterbean]

uh, yes it is.        Posts like this just confirm my belief that hell will be such a crowded place !  I look forward to some huge parties with all my self-proclaimed christian brothers and sisters.

To answer your question Fitt@40, there is no way that a true christian could be so self absorbed with vanity, to train, eat, tan, spend money on travel and supplements etc.  to bodybuild or be a competitive bodybuilder and even remotely claim to be a real christian. Don't try to rationalize it out brother.

I know you're being facetious about hell Count because you don't believe in life after death, but hell is described in the bible as a "place of outer-darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth."  Doesn't sound like a good party to me

As for being self-absorbed, when I did a figure show I was very self-absorbed.  It was a weird (but also a good learning) experience.  Many of my thoughts had to do w/my physique ...food, suits, shoes, workouts, posing etc.  For me, my relationship w/God (as well my relationship w/my husband) was placed behind "me."  I believe that not everyone experiences these types of problems in prep for a show, but I did.  Personally, competing is not for me if I feel my relationship w/God or my husband weakens.

That being said, people w/regular careers are sometimes obsessed w/thinking about work all the time, even when not in the office.  Some competitive bodybuilders obtain their livelihoods soley from the asthetic of their physiques.  It may seem vain to outsiders, but it can be comparative IMO.

[Butterbean]

So you think that Jesus would find it accepting that someone live in excess, 70k cars, 6 bedroom homes (when 3 are needed), jewelry, expensive exotic vacations etc al.

This would be acceptable as opposed to living modestly and taking that excess wealth and helping those less fortunate?

Interesting.

I think it's unfair to assume that those people may not also giving to charity leaps and bounds above what they spend on themselves.

[Butterbean]

The "Christian lifestyle" includes living within your means.  There is nothing anti-Christian about buying a $75k car if you can afford it.  I think the problem is many people overextend themselves to purchase things they really cannot afford. 

agree

If a person places anything before God, doesn't that disqualify (couldn't think of a better word) from being a Christian? 

No.....Christian = Grace through faith and not of works

You can be a Christian and have your priorities all screwed up -- I had my priorities out of whack for a long time, but I still knew that I was a Christian and that I had made my covenant with God in my heart.  I don't think that a Christian can categorize him/herself or others as good or bad Christians.  It is not for us to judge, but to strive throughout our lives to be ever better.

good post

  I would ask that those of you who have encountered such hypocrites do not broadly label the rest of us the same (and that really applies to any religion).

 

IMHO, if bodybuilding is interfering with your relationship with God, then its a problem.  And I think only you can say that.

agree  --  and it (competing) would be a problem for me....but I assume it's not a problem for everyone.

[Count Grishnackh]

I think it's unfair to assume that those people may not also giving to charity leaps and bounds above what they spend on themselves.

That's possible, but where does someone draw the line?

Again, I have to refer back to the Readers Digest article on that line worker from Ford. Probably the most touching story I've read about someone.

Remember Rickey Henderson? He was always referring to god when talking about one thing or another and the guy actually held out and would not play baseball because he thought 3 MILLION dollars per year was not fair to him.

Is he being reasonable because he should get fair market value (I'm not against someone earning a fair wage)?

But his fair market value was that at that time, he felt he should be the highest paid player in the game and when someone signed a bigger contract, he failed to honor his contract and demanded more money. How would his creator look at this. Just a misguided person, but he's saved and is welcome in the kingdom of heaven, or a self absorbed, gluttonous pig who would make Satan smile?

I'm just trying to establish some lines in the sand.

What makes your charity different than Bill Gates? SHOULD he, in the eyes of God live a different lifestyle than you, because he earns more? SHOULD he place himself in a different category. IS IT UNREASONABLE  to expect him to live in a normal suburb around normal people and not be isolated in a 50 million dollar compound?



A conversation I had with 2 very religious (christian) women I had 2 days ago. We were talking about New Years and working the holidays etc..... They both agreed, worship and count the money, worship and count the money. I know that one of them admits to being addicted to online shopping (and I'm not talking about buying for others). I believe she said she has over 100 pairs of shoes.

Again, these are not just normal everyday people, they tell me how deep their faith is and how close their relationship with God. They always tell me that I need saved and they pray for me...so I find their behavior conflicting.

[Butterbean]

That's possible, but where does someone draw the line?

I guess the line will vary from person to person.

Remember Rickey Henderson? He was always referring to god when talking about one thing or another and the guy actually held out and would not play baseball because he thought 3 MILLION dollars per year was not fair to him.

Is he being reasonable because he should get fair market value (I'm not against someone earning a fair wage)?

But his fair market value was that at that time, he felt he should be the highest paid player in the game and when someone signed a bigger contract, he failed to honor his contract and demanded more money. How would his creator look at this. Just a misguided person, but he's saved and is welcome in the kingdom of heaven, or a self absorbed, gluttonous pig who would make Satan smile?

It seems like he may have had a problem with pride and ego?  I'm sure we all struggle w/these at times.  I'm sure that his behavior may have "[made] Satan smile," especially seeing how it affected you and seemed to help you turn farther from God.  If it affected you it could have affected thousands that witnessed it.

But if the guy is truly a Christian (saved by Grace), God forgives him and he will still spend eternity w/God. 

I've had PMs from people on getbig that profess to be Christians, but they don't want others on here to know it because they don't want their behavior to deter anyone from accepting Christ.

What makes your charity different than Bill Gates? SHOULD he, in the eyes of God live a different lifestyle than you, because he earns more? SHOULD he place himself in a different category. IS IT UNREASONABLE  to expect him to live in a normal suburb around normal people and not be isolated in a 50 million dollar compound?

I don't know if it's unreasonable to expect Bill Gates to live in a normal suburb or not.  Maybe he needs to live in a compound for his and his family's protection?  I don't know.  Does it need to be a 50 million dollar compound?  Probably not, but it is just a fraction of his wealth.  I have no idea if the man is a Christian or not, but he can afford his home....and he can afford to give millions and millions to charity (not sure if he does; maybe he doesn't talk about it).

A conversation I had with 2 very religious (christian) women I had 2 days ago. We were talking about New Years and working the holidays etc..... They both agreed, worship and count the money, worship and count the money. I know that one of them admits to being addicted to online shopping (and I'm not talking about buying for others). I believe she said she has over 100 pairs of shoes.

Again, these are not just normal everyday people, they tell me how deep their faith is and how close their relationship with God. They always tell me that I need saved and they pray for me...so I find their behavior conflicting.

Does this mean that you believe that they should live perfect lives since they claim to have a close relationship w/God?  Still living in these fleshly bodies, living perfectly is impossible.  And would their lives need to be lived perfectly according to your standards before you would believe that they have a relationship w/God?

[Count Grishnackh]

I guess the line will vary from person to person.

Wow, I did not think one sentence could sum most of my problem with the christian community of today. This one does. I do not think that line should vary much.

I'm not going to pick apart your response STella, you are basically justifying any example I site, or anything, even hypothetical that one may do and qualify it because they are not perfect and it is open to a hundred different interpretations of what my be appropriate and inappropriate.

This is where my problems begin with the christian community. I am not putting you down or trying to belittle what you are saying, but the built in excuse machine gets turned on when christians are confronted with their own inadequacies in a lifestyle they CHOOSE to adhere to.

It's not like we are asking christians to live by the 10 commandments, they choose to do so. Yet when they continously do as they please, they would rather argue why they are entitled, or that they are not perfect, yet still saved. No one is perfect, but even a casual observation of these people shows time and time again that the attempt to adhere to that lifestyle is not even half-hearted at best.

Don't take this personal STella, I do not know you and you may absolutely try with all of your heart to be a good christian, but unfortunately by that title, you are getting lumped in with the rest, for good or bad.

THANK GOD I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY (PUN INTENDED)

[Jeff Miller]

Wow, I did not think one sentence could sum most of my problem with the christian community of today. This one does. I do not think that line should vary much.

I'm not going to pick apart your response STella, you are basically justifying any example I site, or anything, even hypothetical that one may do and qualify it because they are not perfect and it is open to a hundred different interpretations of what my be appropriate and inappropriate.

This is where my problems begin with the christian community. I am not putting you down or trying to belittle what you are saying, but the built in excuse machine gets turned on when christians are confronted with their own inadequacies in a lifestyle they CHOOSE to adhere to.

It's not like we are asking christians to live by the 10 commandments, they choose to do so. Yet when they continously do as they please, they would rather argue why they are entitled, or that they are not perfect, yet still saved. No one is perfect, but even a casual observation of these people shows time and time again that the attempt to adhere to that lifestyle is not even half-hearted at best.

Don't take this personal STella, I do not know you and you may absolutely try with all of your heart to be a good christian, but unfortunately by that title, you are getting lumped in with the rest, for good or bad.

THANK GOD I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY (PUN INTENDED)

Count, I am not going to defend someone who is a self-proclaimed Christian yet lives an un-Christian life.  I doubt most Christians would.  You are making this a "you vs Christians" argument, but you are characterizing all Christians by the few conversations you have had with some ladies who say they are really good Christians and have a 100 pairs of shoes.  You have made your choice in belief; let your beliefs stand by virtue of their own values instead of in comparison to your perceptions of another religion's values (begs the question: can your religion stand on its own without Christianity to be a comparison?).

To me, this is clearly the point where we "agree to disagree".

[Dos Equis]

Its all a question of priorities and what is your "god".  Many Christians have "gods" that they place before GOD and don't even know it.  What has control of your life?  I would submit that there is your "god".  Smoking, drinking, gambling, wealth (and its acquisition), INTERNET, food, bodybuilding,...........the list goes on.  If ANYTHING OTHER THAN GOD runs your life, then as a Christian you have a problem.  That's not to say that work of any kind is evil, but you gotta know what wins out when push comes to shove. 

I agree with this.