if jesus died for our sins

[Jeff Miller]

this all boilds down to grasping for straws and $$

sheep (for instance teh xtians on this board) want to believe that they wont ever not exist, or that they will get to ssee their dead loved ones again, or that someone actually cares and more imprortantly forgives what a shit they have been for most of their lives(converts) ...

and religious authorities are there every step of the way to offer ear candy and collect $$

Methinks we have a future L. Ron Hubbard in our midst

[sandycoosworth]

how does it work in jewish faith?

r you pretty much guranteed a spot in heaven?

i think you work together with other jews to keep the christians, muslims and others believing in this shit while you take over the banks, law firms and media outlets of the world



















but id have to double check that

[Jeff Miller]

but id have to double check that

Ask Mel Gibson

[Necrosis]

NOW THATS some good weed...i mean ya took the butterfly effect and really ran with it ...


god does not intervene but gives an innocent baby a sin for the hell of it 

i dont think you read my post, i didnt mention sin. i said life is about choices and outcomes, previous peoples choices such as eating habits, lifestyle affect there helth, and cause disease. similar to parents, and similar to everyone on the planet. a baby is the product of people having sex, not god deciding for them to have a baby, people have infinite choices like god, thus life is not determined like you ASSUME it to be

why doesnt god stop global warming!!!!!!! because it is a effect to the choices WE make and stopping them would make life pointless.  if you only experience good things, and see good things you really dont know what good things are. to experience something is to experience difference and an obect and subject.

[Necrosis]

what logical mistakes are in my posts. NONE.

[ToxicAvenger]

i dont think you read my post, i didnt mention sin. i said life is about choices and outcomes, previous peoples choices such as eating habits, lifestyle affect there helth, and cause disease. similar to parents, and similar to everyone on the planet. a baby is the product of people having sex, not god deciding for them to have a baby, people have infinite choices like god, thus life is not determined like you ASSUME it to be

why doesnt god stop global warming!!!!!!! because it is a effect to the choices WE make and stopping them would make life pointless.  if you only experience good things, and see good things you really dont know what good things are. to experience something is to experience difference and an obect and subject.

ok

still does not explain why babies r born into sin?

[Jeff Miller]

i dont think you read my post, i didnt mention sin. i said life is about choices and outcomes, previous peoples choices such as eating habits, lifestyle affect there helth, and cause disease. similar to parents, and similar to everyone on the planet. a baby is the product of people having sex, not god deciding for them to have a baby, people have infinite choices like god, thus life is not determined like you ASSUME it to be

why doesnt god stop global warming!!!!!!! because it is a effect to the choices WE make and stopping them would make life pointless.  if you only experience good things, and see good things you really dont know what good things are. to experience something is to experience difference and an obect and subject.

The most foolish thing people can do is to limit God to human emotions and priorities.

[ToxicAvenger]

there is more proof for UFOs then there is proof of god!

[Jeff Miller]

there is more proof for UFOs then there is proof of god!

Translation:  the UFO conventions don't make me dress up or give tithes

[Necrosis]

no theres not. read some philosophy or science from a theistic perspective.

there is no sin, that is your assumption, why do you think there is good or bad. your morals. were did your morals come from?

god is infinite we are finite, we cant "know" god.

[ToxicAvenger]

there is no sin, that is your assumption, why do you think there is good or bad. your morals. were did your morals come from?

well the christians go around saying that a baby has original sin ..yes or no?

[Jeff Miller]

well the christians go around saying that a baby has original sin ..yes or no?

Personally, I don't believe in that doctrine.  Not all Christians do.  I believe that Adam and Eve brought sin into the world, and that is why there is suffering, but I believe that Christ saved us from anything like Original Sin.

[Necrosis]

well the christians go around saying that a baby has original sin ..yes or no?

i dont know, i dont care about christianity at the moment, and am ignorant to most of the text. so i wont respond.

but the one thing i wish people wouldnt do is follow others, make your own decision, dont beleive everything in the bible, people can write false things you know. it may contain some of his word (i think ozmo contends this) but is everything literal and true, probably not. im sure if he wanted us to adamantly know he existed he would let us know. there must be a reason for seperation.

[Jeff Miller]

im sure if he wanted us to adamantly know he existed he would let us know. there must be a reason for seperation.

Um......God did let us know.  That's why we have the Bible.

[ToxicAvenger]

Um......God did let us know.  That's why we have the Bible.

and the muslims are we have the koran 

[Jeff Miller]

and the muslims are we have the koran 

Aha!  And that's where faith comes in.

But interesting that you brought up the Koran.  Lots of the Koran mirrors what is said in the Old Testament.

[ToxicAvenger]

Aha!  And that's where faith comes in.

But interesting that you brought up the Koran.  Lots of the Koran mirrors what is said in the Old Testament.

oo i know...which is why my dad goes around saying that the old testament is the 'real' bible...

and mum and dad believe in the bible...they say they just wanna go with the latest word of god..'the koran'...

[Jeff Miller]

oo i know...which is why my dad goes around saying that the old testament is the 'real' bible...

and mum and dad believe in the bible...they say they just wanna go with the latest word of god..'the koran'...

Well good for them.  At least they believe in God in some form or fashion.  And I'm assuming they aren't like the thousands of Muslims I am surrounded by every day that commit horrible crimes against each other with the convenient smokescreen of it all being in the name of religion.  From my vantage point, the Koran ain't doing people much good, because they are still dropping like flies.  All I know is that Jews aren't killing each other.

[Necrosis]

thats not adamant proof hence all the debate. proof beyond a reasonalble doubt is what im referring too. i sure he could make us beleive it is true in an instant if he wants.

how is it proof beyond a reasonalble doubt?

how are you sure the other religions arent correct. i base my thoery on logic, experience, and science. yours could be right as alll we have is faith at the end but i dont see how the book is proof when his children debate it.

[ToxicAvenger]

Well good for them.  At least they believe in God in some form or fashion.  And I'm assuming they aren't like the thousands of Muslims I am surrounded by every day that commit horrible crimes against each other with the convenient smokescreen of it all being in the name of religion.  From my vantage point, the Koran ain't doing people much good, because they are still dropping like flies.  All I know is that Jews aren't killing each other.

meh..how many of the muslims you know there in iraq are actually educated?

take that into factor...


how many educated muslims do u see killing eachother..

see how extreme these idiots can get ..trust me..is also a surprise to our family and thousands and thousands like em..

christians and jews on the whole live in the first world educated nations...

[Jeff Miller]

thats not adamant proof hence all the debate. proof beyond a reasonalble doubt is what im referring too. i sure he could make us beleive it is true in an instant if he wants.

how is it proof beyond a reasonalble doubt?

how are you sure the other religions arent correct. i base my thoery on logic, experience, and science. yours could be right as alll we have is faith at the end but i dont see how the book is proof when his children debate it.

And I'm not going to beat you over the head with the Bible.  Its there for those who will believe.  I made my own journey to the place I am now spiritually, and I came to decisions about my beliefs through a lot of study, questioning, and instrospection.  Hell, when I was a teenager I made some girls in a Sunday School class cry because they couldn't prove to me that I should believe in Christ.  Belief is sometimes HARD and SCARY.  It is humbling to admit that you are NOT in control of your life, that there is a plan for you if you will trust in God and His will.  A lot of people don't want to accept that, and thus the arguments about free will, etc.  And people do have free will.  I have found that the people who KNOW that they should surrender to God, yet fight it, have a very hard time.  Yet they still h ave the "free will" so do what they want.

How about this.  Go to war, have your HMMWV get blown up, survive without a scratch, and then you tell me that you are in control of your life.  Better yet, attend the memorials for a dozen other soldiers (some Christians) that die because of similar incidences, and tell me you are in control of your life.

But I will sleep just fine at night if you keep telling God that He doesn't exist.  That's between you and Him.

[Necrosis]

hey Jeff not sure if you read many of my posts but i am perhaps, at least lately, the most vocal defendant of god, and his exsistence. and i dont rely on the BOOK or parables. i rely on what god gave me. he gave me it should't i be able to figure out his exsistence based on rational inquiry.

glad you arrived at your decision, however, i dont think there is one path to god. he accepts all and none of HIS creations are better then others. how could they be. some of the christians teachings that i have seen argued dont make sense. but if it makes you feel close to god so be it, i have a different means to the same end.

[Jeff Miller]

hey Jeff not sure if you read many of my posts but i am perhaps, at least lately, the most vocal defendant of god, and his exsistence. and i dont rely on the BOOK or parables. i rely on what god gave me. he gave me it should't i be able to figure out his exsistence based on rational inquiry.

glad you arrived at your decision, however, i dont think there is one path to god. he accepts all and none of HIS creations are better then others. how could they be. some of the christians teachings that i have seen argued dont make sense. but if it makes you feel close to god so be it, i have a different means to the same end.

Well then, rock on brother.

And remember -- by being a Devil's Advocate, you are actually following a Catholic tradiiton.   

(And that post made number 666 for you.  That's a little creepy.)

[Necrosis]

Well then, rock on brother.

And remember -- by being a Devil's Advocate, you are actually following a Catholic tradiiton.   

(And that post made number 666 for you.  That's a little creepy.)

haha. yes i just had a mild heart attack after i hit reply, so i guess the supersition is true

[Wombat]

i've read somewhere that babies that die or kids that die early are angels that took the job to remind us about compasion...