Hey, Chick, I'd like to ask you this, regarding Kamali.

[Big N]

I got a question for bros, both Shawn Ray and Chic. What do you guys think about the soon to be the revolutionary drink by Milos which was also created by his science group?

[ieffinhatecardio]

Forget it, bro...you obviously dont get it and I dont have the time to explain it to you any more simple than I just did...

Ethical ambiguity is a wonderful thing.

[ieffinhatecardio]

So, when a Former Athlete signs a contract with comany endorsing products after their careers are over, they should not show pictures or film of their competive days when they were at their peak?
I guess I am naive
Better inform Haney, Gaspari/ Gaspari Nutrition, Labrada/ Labrada Nutrition, Gerard Dente/ MHP and all the other Cat's out there with false advertisment

Now we're getting somewhere. You've admitted that it's false advertising, congratulations, I never expected you to acknowledge it.

Care to answer one more? What purpose does showing pictures from your competitive days serve when you're endorsing a bodybuilding supplement that you didn't use in your competitive days? I don't expect you to answer that honestly either, but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised again.

You're right in pointing out the parallels with Gaspari, Haney and Labrada but that doesn't change the basic premise. You're using images of from your stellar competitive days to sell a product you didn't take in your competitive days. If you honestly can't see the inherent contradiction in that then God Bless ignorance.

You're right though, it is Marketing 101 but that doesn't make it ethically correct. 

[njflex]

i have to go with chic and ray on this,not once ever did i believe a supp was gonna make me pro or make me resemble them,if i used them it was to improve my current self,i had that cold harsh reality about bbing young and quick ,from training in my 1st real gym with people who showed me what really work's .

[bigdumbbell]

it's goat herding morality applied to strategic marketing of bodybuilding products, not sheep herding.




hope this biblically helps.

[Chick]

I got a question for bros, both Shawn Ray and Chic. What do you guys think about the soon to be the revolutionary drink by Milos which was also created by his science group?

Don't know anything about it...

[ieffinhatecardio]

i have to go with chic and ray on this,not once ever did i believe a supp was gonna make me pro or make me resemble them,if i used them it was to improve my current self,i had that cold harsh reality about bbing young and quick ,from training in my 1st real gym with people who showed me what really work's .

Perfectly put, if Ray were endorsing gear instead of garbage supplements then no one would question him for a second. Well, other than the legal aspect of it. 

[Big N]

Don't know anything about it...

Well now you know here's a link, and i gotta tell ya if i pay money for that drink i better be on that Olympia stage Chic! 


http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=88242.0

[njflex]

Perfectly put, if Ray were endorsing gear instead of garbage supplements then no one would question him for a second. Well, other than the legal aspect of it. 

see i don't need ray or chic or any pro's secret's or what they did,if u have a decent brain in your head you'll make those decision's yourself.trying to bait them to fess up is a waste to them and the board,go to the local gym and ask a local nobody who gear's up and never compete's or is big half of the year what supp's he prefer's and cycle's,natural and nonnatural,most are more open cause they think it is the cool thing to say.at least a pro who post's here has some integrity on the subject.

[bigdumbbell]

see i don't need ray or chic or any pro's secret's or what they did,if u have a decent brain in your head you'll make those decision's yourself.trying to bait them to fess up is a waste to them and the board,go to the local gym and ask a local nobody who gear's up and never compete's or is big half of the year what supp's he prefer's and cycle's,natural and nonnatural,most are more open cause they think it is the cool thing to say.at least a pro who post's here has some integrity on the subject.

and have another drink while you're at it!

[njflex]

and have another drink while you're at it!

drink of what ,delusional juice that u use..

[bigdumbbell]

drink of what ,delusional juice that u use..

lol ,,, wow,,,denial

[arce377]

Chick is a PRO

[ieffinhatecardio]

see i don't need ray or chic or any pro's secret's or what they did,if u have a decent brain in your head you'll make those decision's yourself.trying to bait them to fess up is a waste to them and the board,go to the local gym and ask a local nobody who gear's up and never compete's or is big half of the year what supp's he prefer's and cycle's,natural and nonnatural,most are more open cause they think it is the cool thing to say.at least a pro who post's here has some integrity on the subject.

This isn't particularly coherent. All I got out of it is that you think the Pro's that post here are brimming with integrity.

Did you leave cookies, milk and carrots out for Santa and his reindeer?

[bic_staedtler]

Schools out.
1st of all, I didn't know "Kids" were buying Supplements? Suggesting they must be buying the magazines too.
Kids sure make a lot of money these days, I wonder why i don't see "Kids" competing and walking around huge?
I take it we are on the same page when we use the term "Kid" as someone who is prepubescent or below the age of 18 which is considered an adult.
That being said, when I was a "Kid" I didn't buy magazines nor buy supplements based on who's in the ads since it wasn't until I was 18 to even understand who these people were and even then at that age you couldn't call me a "Kid"
So, who is getting ripped off again by false advertising?
Are you telling me that all the young girls out there who buy Revlon products, thinking because CHER is there Shampoo Spokeswoman that they will get the same results if they use the product?
Sadly, I say they probably wont but can try them as an alternative to what they currently use.
All those you kids who take Gaspari Nutrition or Labrada Nutrition after seeing these two former Pro's featured in their own ads, promoting their products that they never used during their careers that they too will look like them if they take it?
Hell, I was given a Contract like many pro's before and after me, by a company based on how well I did in contests to represent them not because I used their products. 
The companies wait until the athletes have a certain measure of success or marketability before they even consider signing these guys and even then, most of them continue doing what they did prior to signing because what they did worked just fine.
At the end of the day, Marketing 101 is how many of the top guys get paid.
I endorse the company and their products but boast no claims whatsoever, being that my job is that of Spokesperson and Marketing Director of Athlete Relations.
You silly boy!
Just the facts

..and there you have it.  Probably the ONLY honest answer regarding the way an athlete looks at endorsements, and the way the public looks at endorsements.

It happens in sports, music, clothing, bodybuilding...advertise rs know the big names help sell.  If Shawn wants to justify his income by somehow disconnecting the cause/effect priniciple that every purchaser of, say, VIRALOID products has, so be it.  It's akin to putting your head in the sand, but if you look at it as stricly business, it's too easy.

I hope a lot of people read this thread.  The supplement industry is BUILT on exaggerated claims, suckering in first time lifters and naive people in general.  And they supply cash to pro bodybuilders for endorsements, which in turn sells more product.

The only Business 101 you have to learn from Shawn (and this isn't a knock) is this:

"They're gonna pay me how much?  For which picture in which ad?  For how long?...thanks for the cash!"

...there's NO connection between the athelete's usage of a supplement and his endorsement, that's pretty obvious.  If an athlete actually uses a product he endorses it's due to the fact it's usually free...and even then it sometimes isn't.

Musicians do this all the time.  Zakk Wylde (if you know who he is) has gone so far as to use dummy amplifiers on stage that are his 'signature' amps from Marshall, but his actual sound is coming out of the same tried and true amps hidden backstage!  Same goes with his effects.

It's all about dollars, people.  And in Shawn's case, pride about his bodybuilding legacy.  Hell, it was Shawn's ideas that got me to drop supplements altogether, and stick with whole foods!  He knows what it's all about.  Those who haven't gotten that through their heads yet need to wake up.

[Cleanest Natural]

The advertising thAT is being done is just a way to promote products...if u think using vyotech will transform u the way shawn did then that's Your problem.

[Ozzy]

The advertising thAT is being done is just a way to promote products...if u think using vyotech will transform u the way shawn did then that's Your problem.

The pictures used in the Vyotech ads depicting a huge, ripped Sean Ray DO IMPLY THAT SEAN USED THOSE SUPPS TO GET THE WAY HE IS to the average mis-informed person. When I started seriously training and started reading the mags for tips and supp advice, I had no idea who Sean Ray was or that he didn't even compete anymore. All I saw were those pics of Sean, and the words written beside his picture. Those words escape me at this time, but all supplement ads say the same damn thing: This product helped me come in the best shape of my life and I did this and that and won this show or that show."

To the person buying a mag for the first time to someone totally new to the scene of bodybuilding, looking at those ads would make you think that the Pros endorsing the product used said product, got huge off of that product and recommend that product. To think otherwise is either turning a blind eye for the money (which I believe you are) or you're a fucking retarded guy.

[gh15]

I gotta tell ya I laugh too at that pic.  It had me looking many times at the face.  The face looks kinda like mine, but I am filipino and I have NO hair on my body except my arms (the german part).  But I love the "not real" pics Sean post of me.  Here is a REAL pic of our beloved Sean.  He is so cute and cuddly

this picture of ray is still better than 90% of the bodybuilders walking on earth now days with 6% bf!!,,,i wouldnt show this picture as a bad one,,infact he never looked bad,, physiqe wize,, from what i remember,,one moment you guys see a picture of whats his name justin and you are all full of props,,then you see a pic of ray that is million times bigger and better muscle wize,,and you say it is bad,,,it is bad only because it is 9 out of 10 and not 10 out of 10 like you got used to from ray,,picture is exellent still and plenty of promoters would fight for him to guest pose in his time.

the fact bunch of morons are sitting here and trying to bring down one of the top of the top bodybuilders,,,and the fact he participate in this discussion,,god knows why,, shows to you that he takes things in a good funny way,,look at current champ how he decide youre all bunch of crapos and doesnt post here although he reads the forum!,,yes he reads it regularly

do you see arnold posting here?? do you see dorian? oh wait maybe you see good ole sergio actively participating and contributes regularly to the board since he is retired 100 years now,, or maybe labrada??? oh wait i think zane likes to post here a lot,,

give respect when due! you hear me right kamali you cant talk about how you are better than ray when you cant present a physiqe that is better than cook's,,,insted of comparing yourself to luke which can be comparable (i have no doubt luke has all the tools to pass you by in no time) ...you compare yourself to the cherry on top of the whipcream on top of the cake i ate tonight,,this cherry is ray,,nubret and 10-11 others,,,nothing more

[Thin Lizzy]

Ethical ambiguity is a wonderful thing.

I remember walking past a GNC and seeing a big cutout of Jay holding a can of some sort of supplement. My first thought was that company should've posted a disclaimer indicating that the muscular development of the athlete (Jay) shown can only be acheived by taking large quantities of anabolic steroids.

[Cleanest Natural]

I remember walking past a GNC and seeing a big cutout of Jay holding a can of some sort of supplement. My first thought was that company should've posted a disclaimer indicating that the muscular development of the athlete (Jay) shown can only be acheived by taking large quantities of anabolic steroids.

Did u believe that ?..jesus....I think is more along the lines of "part of his prep"

[the choad]

hey guys don't be so hard on shawn..I mean Vyotech worked for me..
I lost a total of 14 ounces while i used it..Most of the weight was from my wallet...

[dknole]

And the rest is history as they say!
Enjoy.

is there a literal Hall of Fame where people can visit? (Like in football and baseball)

[dknole]

The majority of these naive kids who are buying the supplements don't even know who Shawn Ray is.  Nor do they care.  All they see is the photo of a very muscular and ripped black dude alongside a bodybuilding supplement.  And they make their purchase based on that image.  You give yourself too much credit if you think kids are buying a product because it's "the choice of Champion Shawn Ray" and because they "like you" and they "want to support you." haha  Oh, I forgot, you're Michael Jordan now.  

If Shawn ever ended up in court when Vyotech gets sued for their type of advertising by a civil or regulatory action, hisarguement will be laughed at by the judge and deemed by the Federal Trade Commission Advertising Guideline for the Dietary Supplement Industry to be in the wrong and not in compliance with the FTC and even FDA laws. Get Rick Collins or Shane Freedman on your side Shawn. Oh, and read the FTC Guideline (you can download it from their site) and the FDA Draft Guidance for Substantiation too.

As a spokesperson, your bear (bare?) culpability.

[dearth]

Forget it, bro...you obviously dont get it and I dont have the time to explain it to you any more simple than I just did...

ha ha,

translation -

it is perfectly ok for an over the hill, out of shape ifbb pro to use pictures of his competitve hey day
and claim that a certain product (that wasn't even in existance at the time) was what built
their physique. i.e. IFBB pros will whore out there names/images/endoresements at the drop of a hat
if it provides a means of  securing income.

[dearth]

So, when a Former Athlete signs a contract with comany endorsing products after their careers are over, they should not show pictures or film of their competive days when they were at their peak?
I guess I am naive
Better inform Haney, Gaspari/ Gaspari Nutrition, Labrada/ Labrada Nutrition, Gerard Dente/ MHP and all the other Cat's out there with false advertisment

Actually Shawn
naive would be giving you the benefit of the doubt,
I think think the word "liar" is more appropriate/

the question still remains, if you actually use your vyotech products (I doubt you've used a supplment in your life that wasn't smuggled in from Mexico)
then why don't you show your current pictures?