Author Topic: Mr.O 1980  (Read 6745 times)

natural al

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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2007, 09:35:22 AM »
Then, why was he out of top 3? Politics?

wieder had a bone to pic with Arthur Jones and Mike Metzer for going againts the weideer principles.

Arnold spent aweek training with Jones and then wrote some articles about how shitty Jones' training was...there was a little war going on there and arnold and metzer were both prime examples of each system.  If Mike placed that far below arnold than that must prove that the weider principles were better.
nasser=piece of shit

nycbull

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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #51 on: January 29, 2007, 10:16:27 AM »

IF it's a competition, then why is the mind "off limits?" If someone is in such control of their body, like a bodybuilder should be and claims to be, then the mind should be no different.
Arnold used tried-and succeeded many times- to psyche out his competition. It would be one thing if he was being nefarious about his tactics (oiling half of someones back, hiding Katz's shirt like Waller claimed to do, or giving them the wrong tape of their music for their posing routine etc...). But Arnold was not being underhanded about it all. Possibly he was being childish in his talk with Ferrigno at the 1975 meeting at breakfast, or in the back room at the 80 Olympia. But do not confuse childish and pedantic. Two very different things.
Most of the time, the people that complain about Arnold's type of "psychology," are the ones that can't understand nor accept it. :)

monster defending bad behavior, and relative morality?....he is your idol, so I see you will always defend him. I don't think there is person alive who really knows Arnold and thinks he is a good guy. He was and is still is an asshole, a starfucker, and a liar. He was a hustler for Godsake.

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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #52 on: January 29, 2007, 10:17:05 AM »
Yeah, it seems Arnie always suffered from low self-esteem...

Still he was the better man that day!!!


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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #53 on: January 29, 2007, 10:56:08 AM »
Exactly. What kind of athlete would do that at any sporting competition?  Its so fckin disgusting to act that way to your fellow cometitiors. Its amazing that people think that was some sort of smart move. He was an asshole of epic proportions. YOu all need to accept that. He may have won but he did it the worst way an athlete can.



Hmmm, ever watch football? Boxing? Basketball? in damn near any sport you try and get into the opponents head. Give us a break, it's part of competiton. If you can't take it, don't compete. Hell, it's played on getbig every damn day by f*cking with each other, and chances are - you've done it.
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nycbull

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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #54 on: January 29, 2007, 11:06:23 AM »
Hmmm, ever watch football? Boxing? Basketball? in damn near any sport you try and get into the opponents head. Give us a break, it's part of competiton. If you can't take it, don't compete. Hell, it's played on getbig every damn day by f*cking with each other, and chances are - you've done it.

bullhshit, even when its done in other sports its bad sportsmanship (would you coach kids to do the same?). Whats worse is how Arnold did it, these were his friends and buddies that he paled around with in Venice. He used them when he could and then came competition time and he turned on them in the worst way. He is a narcissist, anything-for-a-buck, asshole without any sense of good sportsmanship. He didn't go to his own fathers funeral. He is a flip flopping politician that suddenly got environmentally conscience when it became trendy again. He flip flops on political issues more than his sexuality.

Dingleberry

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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #55 on: January 29, 2007, 11:21:22 AM »
bullhshit, even when its done in other sports its bad sportsmanship (would you coach kids to do the same?). Whats worse is how Arnold did it, these were his friends and buddies that he paled around with in Venice. He used them when he could and then came competition time and he turned on them in the worst way. He is a narcissist, anything-for-a-buck, asshole without any sense of good sportsmanship. He didn't go to his own fathers funeral. He is a flip flopping politician that suddenly got environmentally conscience when it became trendy again. He flip flops on political issues more than his sexuality.

Getting into the opponents mind has always has been, and always will be part of competition. Nothing you can do about that except adapt or lose. Coaching kids isn't relevant since they are not adults. We are talking about adult competition. A relevant question would be - "would you coach adults to get into the heads of other players?" and the answer is - yep. It's a tool any good coach uses. You think it's coincidence that they blitz the hell out of Rookie quarterbacks in the NFL? You think the coaches don't encourage the linemen to f*ck with each other in order to gain an advantage?
As for Arnold and his politics - He's a politician, he does what politicians do. When his voting base wants him to do something, he does it. Either that, or someone replaces him.
It's obvious you have blind hate for the man since you're not even being rational.
Lastly, the father funeral thing was BS for the movie. It didn't really happen.

Quote -
"A 25th anniversary edition of Pumping Iron included comments from Arnold and George Butler, admitting that parts of the movie were staged to make the film more interesting. At first Butler had tried to make a simple documentary highlighting the human side of bodybuilders, but somehow it didn't quite "work". He chose instead to take a good guy/bad guy approach. Arnold and Ken Waller were the chosen bad guys. At one point in the movie Arnold mentions that he refused to attend his father's funeral in Austria because he was training for a contest; in the commentary he denies this ever happened. Ken Waller's deviousness toward Mike Katz in the movie was also faked or exaggerated, but it did earn him some real-life boos at later contests."

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YoungBlood

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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #56 on: January 29, 2007, 11:22:20 AM »
monster defending bad behavior, and relative morality?....he is your idol, so I see you will always defend him. I don't think there is person alive who really knows Arnold and thinks he is a good guy. He was and is still is an asshole, a starfucker, and a liar. He was a hustler for Godsake.

This is where you step off your soapbox and put a pacifier in your mouth.
Who ever said Arnold is my idol? Not I, you certainly felt the need to say that however. He is far from my idol, but if you feel better thinking that I feel that way, that's the beauty of free will. However, I would like to add, the best part of free will- other than you making judgments and assumptions for me- is that I can still think you're a dick that always feels he is right and will not waver on any subject. You will just throw a temper tantrum and stomp your feet till you get your way.
But go ahead, whatever you would like to think, that's your thing. However, Arnold still did the same thing everyone else did. Just like the time Franco took his shirt off in front of Chris Dickerson, to psyche him out. Or Waller stealing Katz's shirt. Or Oliva keeping himself covered till the time he went onstage and then started playing with Arnold's mind. Or how about Levrone touching Coleman's stomach during the posedown in the (I think) '02 Olympia? Or When guys are doing the posedown and they're all running after one guy?
These are just some examples of mental games people play....and they are all fair and just.

nycbull

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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #57 on: January 29, 2007, 11:55:10 AM »
This is where you step off your soapbox and put a pacifier in your mouth.
Who ever said Arnold is my idol? Not I, you certainly felt the need to say that however. He is far from my idol, but if you feel better thinking that I feel that way, that's the beauty of free will. However, I would like to add, the best part of free will- other than you making judgments and assumptions for me- is that I can still think you're a dick that always feels he is right and will not waver on any subject. You will just throw a temper tantrum and stomp your feet till you get your way.
But go ahead, whatever you would like to think, that's your thing. However, Arnold still did the same thing everyone else did. Just like the time Franco took his shirt off in front of Chris Dickerson, to psyche him out. Or Waller stealing Katz's shirt. Or Oliva keeping himself covered till the time he went onstage and then started playing with Arnold's mind. Or how about Levrone touching Coleman's stomach during the posedown in the (I think) '02 Olympia? Or When guys are doing the posedown and they're all running after one guy?
These are just some examples of mental games people play....and they are all fair and just.



They are all signs of poor sportsmanship. Isn't it better to win by having the best physique, game, etc than to rely on playing head games with your opponents? which would  you prefer for yourself?

natural al

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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #58 on: January 29, 2007, 11:59:49 AM »


They are all signs of poor sportsmanship. Isn't it better to win by having the best physique, game, etc than to rely on playing head games with your opponents? which would  you prefer for yourself?

not that I condon that type of thing but one statement that I've learned seems to apply more and more to more and more things in life:

the ends justify the means


no one remembers that arnie was a bad guy-except in threads like this-they remember that he won 7 olympia's so that's all that really matters.
nasser=piece of shit

YoungBlood

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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #59 on: January 29, 2007, 12:08:09 PM »


They are all signs of poor sportsmanship. Isn't it better to win by having the best physique, game, etc than to rely on playing head games with your opponents? which would  you prefer for yourself?

No, it's not bad sportsmanship. Bad sportsmanship is Ronnie walking offstage because Jay won the award. Bad sportsmanship is Titus smashing his trophy when he didn't win, because Phil Hernon came into the contest in better shape than he did. Poor sportsmanship is when you take advantage of something that is NOT part of the game. Coming off the sidelines to tackle your opponent during a kick return. Or pulling a knife from your short and knifing Kobe in the back during the game.
The mental aspect is there in ALL sports, whether you like it or not. If someone were to say to me during a game "Your mama wears army boots!" and I was rattled by that comment, then I would say to him "hey, good comment" but I would also come back at him with something of my own. Now, if I my mom just died, and he knew that and said "You mom died because you're a bitch that can't slam dunk" that would be an example of poor sportsmanship. Either that, or I really shouldn't be playing in the game since I was obviously not over her death and affected by his comment- for the wrong reasons.
So, to answer your question, mind games are no different a part of the sport than trying to have a better back than Ronnie Coleman. The weights are how you build a better back, however, telling your opponent a joke before he hits a pose, is a means to not allow him to hit his back double biceps shot effectively. Just as Arnold told Zane a joke onstage, Zane had the same tools at his disposal. He decided to not use that tool, but that does not mean it was poor sportsmanship by Arnold.

nycbull

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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #60 on: January 29, 2007, 12:09:27 PM »

Lastly, the father funeral thing was BS for the movie. It didn't really happen.

Quote -
"A 25th anniversary edition of Pumping Iron included comments from Arnold and George Butler, admitting that parts of the movie were staged to make the film more interesting. At first Butler had tried to make a simple documentary highlighting the human side of bodybuilders, but somehow it didn't quite "work". He chose instead to take a good guy/bad guy approach. Arnold and Ken Waller were the chosen bad guys. At one point in the movie Arnold mentions that he refused to attend his father's funeral in Austria because he was training for a contest; in the commentary he denies this ever happened. Ken Waller's deviousness toward Mike Katz in the movie was also faked or exaggerated, but it did earn him some real-life boos at later contests."


exacly my point, Arnold allowed the Director to put words in his mouth because Arnold new that the movie would sell more and thus make more money and more fame for himself. So he knowingly compromised himself and his father for money and fame. Nice guy.

ribonucleic

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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #61 on: January 29, 2007, 12:14:08 PM »
exacly my point, Arnold allowed the Director to put words in his mouth because Arnold new that the movie would sell more and thus make more money and more fame for himself. So he knowingly compromised himself and his father for money and fame. Nice guy.

His father was a Nazi bastard. I wouldn't have gone to his funeral either.

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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #62 on: January 29, 2007, 12:49:23 PM »
exacly my point, Arnold allowed the Director to put words in his mouth because Arnold new that the movie would sell more and thus make more money and more fame for himself. So he knowingly compromised himself and his father for money and fame. Nice guy.

hahahaha. What movie doesn't have the director telling the actors what to say and how to say it? Do you think it's the actors idea's to come up with all of that? That's why he is the director, his job is to make a movie that will entertain the viewer. Why is Arnold a bad guy for wanting to be successful? How is that any different than any other person ever to make a movie? EVERY ACTOR TRIES TO MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AND FAME FOR THEMSELVES, from Arnold to the guy posting his home video on youtube. With the moral standards you declare in this thread, you must be the only Shaolin Monk in existence with internet access.
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YoungBlood

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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #63 on: January 29, 2007, 03:16:37 PM »
exacly my point, Arnold allowed the Director to put words in his mouth because Arnold new that the movie would sell more and thus make more money and more fame for himself. So he knowingly compromised himself and his father for money and fame. Nice guy.

That's what actors do, genius! That would be similar to you not liking Cameron Crowe because a scene in Gladiator, he really didn't kill the lion (because it was blue screened so there really wasn't a lion even there; adding to the lie!) because it would be cruelty to animals.
A movie is a living breathing thing. If there isn't enough action or plot, all people involved can and should brainstorm and add ideas to allow the movie to serve it's purpose; entertain and make make money. Arnold had already make "Hercules In New York" and "Stay Hungry" by the time Pumping Iron was around. So, he was an actor, maybe not a good one, but qualified enough to have input in the making of PI.
Did you just wake up from a coma or something? ???

Vince B

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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #64 on: January 29, 2007, 03:41:35 PM »
Ah, where to start when discussing who should have won in 1980? My gym sold 200 tickets to the Olympia so there were lots of people that gave us feedback afterwards. From the bodybuilders that I knew they mostly thought Dickerson was the best. That surprised me. If you examine the judges scores then it is obvious the contest was close because they gave out way too many 20 out of 20 scores in each round. Clearly, there were many who could have won the contest. Tinerino was in great shape but didn't make the top few. Roy Callendar won a contest in Sydney in 1979 so was popular with the crowd but he wasn't among the top placers. I took a shot of Mentzer that Ironman used on its cover. From that photo it is easy to think he is the best on stage. The trouble is he didn't seem to be the winner at the prejudging or at the evening show. Plus he had a tummy that protruded in some photos.

Zane was the reigning Mr Olympia but he looked small in 1980. Dickerson had small arms and funny looking elbows. When I looked at the hundreds of images from the prejudging and evening shows I concluded that Arnold was the winner. His chest was by far the best on stage. His arms and calves were among the best. Arnold also looked huge when he posed. The only thing lacking were his thighs but they were cut. He was nowhere near the condition he had in 73 but had enough to win.

The biggest guy, pound for pound, was Danny Padilla. He was not called out for any comparisons. That is how contests go. It doesn't pay to be short.

I had an argument with Roger Walker after the contest. He thought his waist was as small as Arnold's. It didn't look as small.

Boyer Coe looked great in the free posing section. Yet, where were his abdominals.

Dickerson had small arms and chest, Zane was small, Coe had missing abs, Padilla was too short, and so on. Arnold won by a point and that is what the judges voted for. How anyone 27 years later can insist Mentzer won is really pushing the sentimentality. Mentzer was nowhere near the best that day. Neither the judges, audience, photos or movie agree. I don't agree.

Mike was a philosopher who believed in Ayn Rand ideas. There was one true theory of anything. In bodybuilding there is one true theory and therefore one true method. Mike believed he alone knew both the right theory and method. He considered Arnold not knowledgeable about training. Therefore, it would be right if the person with the most knowledge won the contest. That is what the universe would want. That attitude was behind some of the angst re Arnold and Mike. So when Mike not only lost but didn't place second and Arnold won his brain snapped. Several of the top men boycotted the 81 Olympia, including Mike. Had Mike persisted he might easily have won in 81 and perhaps could have won for a few more years. We never found out because Mike lost it. According to Ray Mentzer, Mike abused drugs and went through many bad years after that contest. To him the universe had betrayed him.

I doubt anyone can know exactly what was in Mike's mind but even today many debate who should have won that contest.

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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #65 on: January 29, 2007, 04:27:03 PM »
I like Mike. I even like Ayn Rand. But anyone who goes through life expecting it to work like her books is due  for a brutal disillusionment sooner or later.

Vince B

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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #66 on: January 29, 2007, 04:57:56 PM »
Ayn Rand wrote of the heroic man and the 'superwoman' who was his equal in all ways. We have yet to see women like that. The movies and TV all depict the emotional, crazy female who eventually falls for the right guy.

I wonder if Mike ever found his Ayn?

As a philosopher, I would say that the Rand scheme was lacking. She even wrote about the virtue of selfishness. The trouble is that is a contradiction. If someone does a good thing for another it might be for self-interested reasons but that is hardly selfishness. I always wondered why Mike and even Ray admired that philosophy. I have yet to meet anyone else who championed those ideas. Nathaniel Brandon, popularized the ideas of Rand, but no university philosophy department even considers her a first rate philosopher.

Mike stands out as one of the few thinkers in the Irongame. I wonder if he had many original ideas himself? He admired Rand then Jones but I never read any of his own ideas that could be described as a philosophy.

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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #67 on: January 30, 2007, 02:44:46 AM »
NycBull is by far one of the top 10 idiots on this site and that is no small feat. You have to have a personal grudge on someone to be so persistent about them being a bad person because they don't follow your ideals. Either that or your a Morman or something.
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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #68 on: January 30, 2007, 03:13:58 AM »
Zane was the reigning Mr Olympia but he looked small in 1980. Dickerson had small arms and funny looking elbows.  

What was up with that?

natural al

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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #69 on: January 30, 2007, 04:51:49 AM »
What was up with that?
..
dickerson has some of the "longest" elbows you'll eveer see, he kinda looks liek a mutant or something with those things.
nasser=piece of shit

YoungBlood

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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #70 on: January 30, 2007, 05:28:07 AM »
What was up with that?

Story goes that Chris used to use the GH from human cadavers (just like Arnold was rumored to have used) and that is what made his elbows grow like that.

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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #71 on: January 30, 2007, 05:38:52 AM »
His father was a Nazi bastard. I wouldn't have gone to his funeral either.

Still he was the better man that day!!!


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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #72 on: January 30, 2007, 05:43:47 AM »
bullhshit, even when its done in other sports its bad sportsmanship (would you coach kids to do the same?). Whats worse is how Arnold did it, these were his friends and buddies that he paled around with in Venice. He used them when he could and then came competition time and he turned on them in the worst way. He is a narcissist, anything-for-a-buck, asshole without any sense of good sportsmanship. He didn't go to his own fathers funeral. He is a flip flopping politician that suddenly got environmentally conscience when it became trendy again. He flip flops on political issues more than his sexuality.

Arnold is the greatest.

Every great person has gotten where they are by stepping on the necks of the inferior. It's how it works and i don't have a problem with it.

nycbull

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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #73 on: January 30, 2007, 05:50:39 AM »
Story goes that Chris used to use the GH from human cadavers (just like Arnold was rumored to have used) and that is what made his elbows grow like that.

I met Chris and his bf a while back at a party, he was really adament about me not doing steroids, almost begging me not use them. I walked away believing maybe he was natural.

nycbull

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Re: Mr.O 1980
« Reply #74 on: January 30, 2007, 05:53:08 AM »
Arnold is the greatest.

Every great person has gotten where they are by stepping on the necks of the inferior. It's how it works and i don't have a problem with it.

Thats typical of peoples attitude today. Get famous at any cost. You see it all the time with celebrities, they can do not wrong. Bad publicity is good publicity. Thats why someone like Paris Hilton is famous. I guess its just the way it is now. Sad, but it seems all the young people are following these kind of role models. Cheat, steal, lie, drugs, anything as long as you make money or get famous.