Author Topic: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References  (Read 8313 times)

Tre

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2007, 02:38:10 PM »
Most evil institutions ever:

1) religion

2) Third Reich

3) Bush Family


Tre

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2007, 02:39:23 PM »
I think it's just terrible.... They're just hurting the kids.

I remember being a young lad and had to sit through in school suspension... It was quite well known that the ISS teacher was a bible guy and if you could get him started on religion you could sit all day and not have to do a single bit of work.

Well it was about 9:30am and I was just tired of working, so I started the religious discussion... suffice it to say, the discussion lasted through lunch and most of the afternoon... I bet we stopped at around 2:30 in the afternoon (only 45 minutes left during the day).

It was GREAT!!!

How dare they take away a kids ability to con a teacher into slacking off... It's just deplorable.


LOL 

Great post.

And I've got to agree with you - there's nothing better than a classroom where students can freely debate with the teachers from diametrically opposed viewpoints. 

tu_holmes

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2007, 02:39:42 PM »
Most evil institutions ever:

1) religion

2) Third Reich

3) Bush Family



You wouldn't put Stalin over the Bushs?
Pol Pot?
Even The Ill family?
Seriously?

Dos Equis

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2007, 02:41:49 PM »
WTF?

I didn't know you were Hindu

lol.   :)

Dos Equis

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2007, 02:43:59 PM »
You seem ok to me.

I'm actually cool with God...well, except for all the murders he's responsible for.  

My real problem is with religion.  'Men of God' have killed far more people than God has...and for what?  sheesh

Religion is truly the most evil institution this world has ever known.  That is not a debatable point.  

Sure it's debatable.  Men have done some evil things in the name of religion.  It's the people who corrupt religion, not the other way around.  It's like our Constitution and our system of government.  Nearly flawless on paper.  It's the people who screw it up. 

Camel Jockey

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2007, 02:48:59 PM »
I didn't say the complete absence of transitional fossils proves my point (whatever my point was).  It helps disprove Darwin's theory.  

I believe in the theory of intelligent design.  Certain parts are a mystery to me, but from a commonsense standpoint it is more believable than my uncle being a monkey.   :)

No it doesn't.  ::) There are plenty of transitional fossils, such as mammal like reptiles. Reptiles to birds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synapsid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diapsid


Darwin's theory isn't just monkeys turning into people, it's natural selection. You cannot dispute natural selection, especially when it's happening before our very eyes. Natural selection is common sense.

Straw Man

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2007, 02:52:55 PM »
lol.   :)

Just kidding -  Krom is my god

Tre

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2007, 03:03:52 PM »
You wouldn't put Stalin over the Bushs?
Pol Pot?
Even The Ill family?
Seriously?

You figure that we're 50 years or so removed from the death of Stalin, not quite 20 years since the fall of the Berlin Wall and Russia is doing reasonably well.  When you look at the current strength of Germany in technology and commerce, one has to agree that the U.S.'s rebuilding plan worked to near-perfection there...East Germany had to be allowed to exist, though.  And it WORKED. 

The damage that Bush is doing to this country will resonate for the next 60-80 years minimum.  That is my prediction.   

Tre

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2007, 03:06:01 PM »
You cannot dispute natural selection, especially when it's happening before our very eyes. Natural selection is common sense.

My daughter is smart, articulate, beautiful, tall, and athletic.  And for good measure, she's also very kind. 

She has excellent genetics.   ;D

tu_holmes

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2007, 03:07:58 PM »
Just kidding -  Krom is my god

My god will kick your gods ass!



Dos Equis

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2007, 03:08:21 PM »
No it doesn't.  ::) There are plenty of transitional fossils, such as mammal like reptiles. Reptiles to birds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synapsid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diapsid


Darwin's theory isn't just monkeys turning into people, it's natural selection. You cannot dispute natural selection, especially when it's happening before our very eyes. Natural selection is common sense.

Dude those aren't transitional fossils.  If we all came from some single-cell creature, the fossil record would be replete with animals part way through their alleged transformation.  The complete absence of this record is one of the primary holes in the evolution theory.  

Dos Equis

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2007, 03:09:05 PM »
Just kidding -  Krom is my god

Arnold, in his prime, is about as close to a god on Earth as you'll get.   :)

Straw Man

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2007, 03:15:47 PM »
Arnold, in his prime, is about as close to a god on Earth as you'll get.   :)

not for me but if it works for you that's cool

ribonucleic

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2007, 03:52:02 PM »
No one has encapsulated the evolution vs creationism debate as sharply as Bill Maher.

"There's the theory accepted by every reputable scientist on the planet. Then there's the story about the naked lady and the snake."

I think that people who deny evolution should be denied all the other fruits of scientific inquiry as well: cars, electric lights, modern medicine, etc.

Tre

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2007, 03:53:37 PM »
"There's the theory accepted by every reputable scientist on the planet. Then there's the story about the naked lady and the snake."

LOL  -  Great one.

It's all about people trying to control who you fuck. 

Straw Man

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #40 on: March 20, 2007, 04:10:05 PM »
No one has encapsulated the evolution vs creationism debate as sharply as Bill Maher.

"There's the theory accepted by every reputable scientist on the planet. Then there's the story about the naked lady and the snake."

I think that people who deny evolution should be denied all the other fruits of scientific inquiry as well: cars, electric lights, modern medicine, etc.

excellent

OzmO

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2007, 04:22:18 PM »
Wouldn't creationism put the earth about 11,000 to 13,000 years old?   ::)

Camel Jockey

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2007, 04:24:22 PM »
Dude those aren't transitional fossils.  If we all came from some single-cell creature, the fossil record would be replete with animals part way through their alleged transformation.  The complete absence of this record is one of the primary holes in the evolution theory.  

This "alleged transformation" is natural selection. It suddenly didn't take place, but happened over years relative to which animals were sucessful in reproducing to pass on their traits, leading to strains, sub-species and eventually seperate species and genuses. The links I provided to you are examples of transitional animals that existed in the past and we know they existed because we've found their fossils. Try and understand how difficult it is to dig up the fossils of early creatures and then you'll see that we'll never find the fossil for every single organism that has existed on earth. And early organisms were single celled bacteria and there's no way in hell we'll be finding their fossils, unless you consider oil fossils.

What absence are you talking about? The record is perfectly clear to many scientists who based their arguements on science and good rational. The record is there for you to see, but it's clear that you don't want to accept it as religion is your preference. There's nothing wrong with religion or you stating your opinion on evolution, but please don't be bashing evolution when you're not even willing to look into the facts.

Tre

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #43 on: March 20, 2007, 04:49:06 PM »
Wouldn't creationism put the earth about 11,000 to 13,000 years old?   ::)

Right.

Starting from that premise, they have nowhere to go but down.

Dos Equis

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #44 on: March 20, 2007, 04:49:18 PM »
This "alleged transformation" is natural selection. It suddenly didn't take place, but happened over years relative to which animals were sucessful in reproducing to pass on their traits, leading to strains, sub-species and eventually seperate species and genuses. The links I provided to you are examples of transitional animals that existed in the past and we know they existed because we've found their fossils. Try and understand how difficult it is to dig up the fossils of early creatures and then you'll see that we'll never find the fossil for every single organism that has existed on earth. And early organisms were single celled bacteria and there's no way in hell we'll be finding their fossils, unless you consider oil fossils.

What absence are you talking about? The record is perfectly clear to many scientists who based their arguements on science and good rational. The record is there for you to see, but it's clear that you don't want to accept it as religion is your preference. There's nothing wrong with religion or you stating your opinion on evolution, but please don't be bashing evolution when you're not even willing to look into the facts.

The record isn't clear at all and I didn't mention religion at all when talking about the absence of transitional fossils.  They don't exist.  The oldest fossil of a dog is a dog.  Same with a cat.  Mouse.  Human.  This is a huge problem for the evolution theory.

And I've looked at the facts, both for and against.  Try reading "Darwin's Black Box."  Raises issues that are fatal to the theory of evolution.  
    

Straw Man

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #45 on: March 20, 2007, 07:00:56 PM »
The record isn't clear at all and I didn't mention religion at all when talking about the absence of transitional fossils.  They don't exist.  The oldest fossil of a dog is a dog.  Same with a cat.  Mouse.  Human.  This is a huge problem for the evolution theory.

And I've looked at the facts, both for and against.  Try reading "Darwin's Black Box."  Raises issues that are fatal to the theory of evolution.  
    

BB - I haven't read the book but I did look up some info on the author and it really does appear that he's just a creationist.

From Wikipedia:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Behe

Behe's claims about the irreducible complexity of key cellular structures are strongly contested by the scientific community, including his own department, the Department of Biological Sciences, at Lehigh University.

Behe's testimony in Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District is extensively cited by the judge in his ruling that intelligent design is not science but essentially religious in nature.

In a November 8, 1996 interview Richard Dawkins said of Behe:

"He's a straightforward creationist. What he has done is to take a standard argument which dates back to the 19th century, the argument of irreducible complexity, the argument that there are certain organs, certain systems in which all the bits have to be there together or the whole system won't work...like the eye. Darwin answered (this)...point by point, piece by piece. But maybe he shouldn't have bothered. Maybe what he should have said is...maybe you're too thick to think of a reason why the eye could have come about by gradual steps, but perhaps you should go away and think a bit harder."

By this time, Behe had published his ideas on irreducible complexity in a book called Darwin's Black Box, which was a public and critical success. Scientists however responded by arguing that Behe's arguments and examples were based only a refined form of "argument from ignorance", rather than any demonstration of the actual impossibility of explanation by natural processes. Furthermore, they asserted that he deliberately aimed the publication of this book at the general public in order to gain maximum publicity while avoiding any peer-reviews from fellow scientists or performing new research to support his claims

Scientists were again highly critical of the claims made about the research, pointing out that it not only had been shown that a supposedly Irreducibly Complex structure could evolve, but that it could do so within a reasonable time even subject to unrealistically harsh restrictions. They also objected to it being claimed as published evidence for design given that it offered no design theory or attempt to model the design process, and also failed to offer an alternative to evolution.

Dos Equis

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #46 on: March 20, 2007, 07:18:43 PM »
BB - I haven't read the book but I did look up some info on the author and it really does appear that he's just a creationist.

From Wikipedia:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Behe

Behe's claims about the irreducible complexity of key cellular structures are strongly contested by the scientific community, including his own department, the Department of Biological Sciences, at Lehigh University.

Behe's testimony in Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District is extensively cited by the judge in his ruling that intelligent design is not science but essentially religious in nature.

In a November 8, 1996 interview Richard Dawkins said of Behe:

"He's a straightforward creationist. What he has done is to take a standard argument which dates back to the 19th century, the argument of irreducible complexity, the argument that there are certain organs, certain systems in which all the bits have to be there together or the whole system won't work...like the eye. Darwin answered (this)...point by point, piece by piece. But maybe he shouldn't have bothered. Maybe what he should have said is...maybe you're too thick to think of a reason why the eye could have come about by gradual steps, but perhaps you should go away and think a bit harder."

By this time, Behe had published his ideas on irreducible complexity in a book called Darwin's Black Box, which was a public and critical success. Scientists however responded by arguing that Behe's arguments and examples were based only a refined form of "argument from ignorance", rather than any demonstration of the actual impossibility of explanation by natural processes. Furthermore, they asserted that he deliberately aimed the publication of this book at the general public in order to gain maximum publicity while avoiding any peer-reviews from fellow scientists or performing new research to support his claims

Scientists were again highly critical of the claims made about the research, pointing out that it not only had been shown that a supposedly Irreducibly Complex structure could evolve, but that it could do so within a reasonable time even subject to unrealistically harsh restrictions. They also objected to it being claimed as published evidence for design given that it offered no design theory or attempt to model the design process, and also failed to offer an alternative to evolution.


Straw he's not a "creationist" (whatever that means).  At least he wasn't when he wrote the book.  He doesn't really discuss religion much at all in his book.  He went into his research with an open mind and came to the conclusion that we are the result of intelligent design.  His research centered around, among other things, the theory of "irreducibly complex" organisms/parts, etc.  Some things, like the eye, have interrelated parts that could not have functioned without each part, which makes the theory of gradual development of individual parts impossible.   

Unsurprisingly, the "scientific community" largely bashed him.  They have to.  He wrote a book that cuts directly against what they have been taught and have been teaching for years.

If you're interested, I highly recommend it.  Very enlightening (to me anyway).  It's not a religious book.     
 

Straw Man

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #47 on: March 20, 2007, 08:01:17 PM »
Straw he's not a "creationist" (whatever that means).  At least he wasn't when he wrote the book.  He doesn't really discuss religion much at all in his book.  He went into his research with an open mind and came to the conclusion that we are the result of intelligent design.  His research centered around, among other things, the theory of "irreducibly complex" organisms/parts, etc.  Some things, like the eye, have interrelated parts that could not have functioned without each part, which makes the theory of gradual development of individual parts impossible.   

Unsurprisingly, the "scientific community" largely bashed him.  They have to.  He wrote a book that cuts directly against what they have been taught and have been teaching for years.

If you're interested, I highly recommend it.  Very enlightening (to me anyway).  It's not a religious book.     
 

intelligent design is basically biblical creationism in different clothes. 

When I asked you earlier who is the the "designer"  your answer was God.

I'm sure Behe's book isn't religious but his peers in the scientific community and even his own university don't recognize it as science either.


Dos Equis

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #48 on: March 20, 2007, 10:01:03 PM »
intelligent design is basically biblical creationism in different clothes. 

When I asked you earlier who is the the "designer"  your answer was God.

I'm sure Behe's book isn't religious but his peers in the scientific community and even his own university don't recognize it as science either.



Straw I could care less what others think.  If you think a book you haven't read discussing theories you haven't considered have been discredited, then don't read it.  I think he does a great job of explaining the problems with Darwin's theory in both lay and scientific terms, down to the cellular level.  I keep his book on my office shelf.   

Straw Man

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Re: Oregon Biology Teacher Fired Over Bible References
« Reply #49 on: March 20, 2007, 10:31:06 PM »
Straw I could care less what others think.  If you think a book you haven't read discussing theories you haven't considered have been discredited, then don't read it.  I think he does a great job of explaining the problems with Darwin's theory in both lay and scientific terms, down to the cellular level.  I keep his book on my office shelf.   

well I guess you really like this book.  Why do you keep on a copy on the shelf in your office?

I honestly don't really care about the theory of evolution or not. 

the entire poplation of the planet up to this point has lived and died and it didn't make any difference

I've got my own theories which I think are brilliant

but they don't really make any difference either