Yates vs. Haney 1991

[The_Hammer]

Lights out as far as I'm concerned. Lee was the deserved champion. Dorian was still two full years away from his peak. I think Lee would have won had he come back in '92 as well.

SERGIO!!!!

That lateral shot shows that Haney had the thicker chest, but Dorian had the better arms, shoulders, and midsection.

Despite Dorian's better conditioning Lee had much more detail in his muscle probably due to his age.  Dorian was only 29 and hadn't achieved the muscle maturity Lee had.

[MB]

That was probably the best 1, 2 finish in Olympia history.  An 8-time Mr. O in first and a soon to be 6-time Mr. O in second.  It would have been nice to see Lee vs. Dorian in '92 & '93 as well.   

[americanbulldog]

Haney had a bigger chest, no disputing that.  But his chest starts to sag at the bottom, whereas Dorian's flows well from the upper to lower pecs without the sag.   It looks like his lower pecs are overdeveloped compared to his upper

I think you are mistaking his long muscle bellys and low insertion points for sagging.  That was the beauty of Haney's physique.  Small hips, small waist, wide shoulders, low inserting lats and pecs, and HUMONGOUS traps.  One of the best TORSOs ever.  Lacked arms, and legs.  But Torso was top notch. 

[pumpster]

Girlie arms??

Oh sure you can always find the occasional angle where the arms actually fit with the oversized torso.

[pumpster]

That was probably the best 1, 2 finish in Olympia history.  An 8-time Mr. O in first and a soon to be 6-time Mr. O in second.  It would have been nice to see Lee vs. Dorian in '92 & '93 as well.   

No comparison with '72. '98 & '99 the two top guys were also better-in terms of physiques not all this stuff about 8-time this or that.

[pumpster]

I think you are mistaking his long muscle bellys and low insertion points for sagging.  That was the beauty of Haney's physique.  Small hips, small waist, wide shoulders, low inserting lats and pecs, and HUMONGOUS traps.  One of the best TORSOs ever.  Lacked arms, and legs.  But Torso was top notch. 

You nailed it-one third of the physique (torso) was great, the rest underwhelming.

[americanbulldog]

You nailed it-one third of the physique (torso) was great, the rest underwhelming.

He had okay for the times legs, good triceps, terrible biceps, good forearms.  His hamstrings were actually good, but lacked quad sweep/detail, had the hugest ass, but no cross striations, and low insertion, but not overwhelming calves. 

[Hulkster]

Haney had a bigger chest, no disputing that.  But his chest starts to sag at the bottom, whereas Dorian's flows well from the upper to lower pecs without the sag.   It looks like his lower pecs are overdeveloped compared to his upper

but sagging when relaxed is just an artifact of having a superbly huge and developed chest.

dorian's was far underdeveloped in comparison to Haney's, and to the rest of his torso.

[pumpster]

He had okay for the times legs, good triceps, terrible biceps, good forearms.  His hamstrings were actually good, but lacked quad sweep/detail, had the hugest ass, but no cross striations, and low insertion, but not overwhelming calves. 

Long story short, great torso & nothing else to match it.

[The_Hammer]

He had okay for the times legs, good triceps, terrible biceps, good forearms.  His hamstrings were actually good, but lacked quad sweep/detail, had the hugest ass, but no cross striations, and low insertion, but not overwhelming calves. 

His quads didn't have detail?

His legs have as much detail as Ronnie's.  Half the size though...

[MCWAY]

It could have gone either way. If Yates had won, I don't think anyone would have argued, including Lee.

I personally think Yates should have won conisdering he won the muscularity round despite being 11lbs lighter than Haney....that tells you a lot about his conditioning.

Yates wasn't 11 lbs. lighter than Haney. They both were around 240.

ESPN had Haney at 241 and Yates at 239.

A website I linked the last time someone brought this up had them both at 245.

[Tamer Razor]

Lee....Clearly the most genetic gifted MR. O

[pumpster]

Lee....Clearly the most genetic gifted MR. O

Not even in the top 5 most genetically gifted, considering the imbalances. IF his limbs had been comparable to the torso, he'd have been one of the best winners.

[nicorulez]

Hammer, where you there.  I was there and within twenty rows of the stage.  Haney absolutely slaughtered Yates.  Haney had far prettier muscle bellies, was larger and his taper was amazing.  His waist absolutely made Yates look pregnant.  Yates was a damn fine runner-up but that is all.  In fact, Yates of 1991 was amazingly similar to Yates 1992.  Haney would have whooped him then.  Now, Yates of 1993 was a beast.  He got a hold of some really good stuff.  He was 256 pounds of iron.  There, Yates would have won but only on size; his taper was slowly going south.  Regardless, those early pics of Yates and Haney show how much better they are than Cutler.  Ronnie in 1998/1999 and 2003 would have crushed any version of either, however.  Oops, isn't there a small thread around here about that matter....sorry.

[donrhummy]

WOW. If Haney showed up at the Olympia in 2006 looking like that, I'd give him the title right there. Just shows how there's been no progress since 1991.

Of course, if he looked like that, he'd place 7th today since the judges really know what they're doing.

[Danimal77]

Yes, Yates weighed 239 in 1991 and 242 in 1992. As for Haney, I do know that he came in lighter that year (around 240). In 1987, Haney competed at 259 pounds (his heaviest competition bodyweight). It seemed pretty even for Yates and Haney in 1991.

[njflex]

91 was haney's all time best conditioning and leg seperation was his best ,he seemed to know this was the end and finished off as a winner.yate's knew he needed a back after been beaten by benaziza in 90NOC and haney in 91 O.

[The_Hammer]

Yates had the better back.

[delta9mda]

Not even close, Haney destroyed Yates. Haney was thicker, more symmetrical and had a better waist to shoulder taper. If you saw it live or even on video it was clear Haney was way better than Yates.

i was there, haney was not the clear winner. he lost the muscularity round. that counts for alot.

[pobrecito]

i was there, haney was not the clear winner. he lost the muscularity round. that counts for alot.

If Yates had won, I don't think you would have argued.....hell, even the video commentator said Yates is "like Haney with bigger legs and back"

[suckmymuscle]

Hammer, where you there.  I was there and within twenty rows of the stage.  Haney absolutely slaughtered Yates.  Haney had far prettier muscle bellies, was larger and his taper was amazing.  His waist absolutely made Yates look pregnant.  Yates was a damn fine runner-up but that is all.  In fact, Yates of 1991 was amazingly similar to Yates 1992.  Haney would have whooped him then.  Now, Yates of 1993 was a beast.  He got a hold of some really good stuff.  He was 256 pounds of iron.  There, Yates would have won but only on size; his taper was slowly going south.  Regardless, those early pics of Yates and Haney show how much better they are than Cutler.  Ronnie in 1998/1999 and 2003 would have crushed any version of either, however.  Oops, isn't there a small thread around here about that matter....sorry.

  I knew you would give your 50 cents on this one...

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

  Haney defeated Dorian due to better symmetry. By that, I mean that Haney had the better structure and proportionality. Lee clearly won the symmetry round due to his wasp-waist and wide clavicles. I have said time and time again that Haney is an underrated bodybuilder. He is, arguably, the only bodybuilder who could do a vacuum pose at 250 lbs and had no muscle missing.

  As far as muscularity, I think it was much closer than the judges ruled. It's obvious that Haney's delts and pecs were thicker than Dorian's, and while they had equivalent backs in terms of size, Haney's was more separated. The only bodypart, I think, that Dorian soundly defeated Haney was in legs, both quads and calves. Here is what Dorian had to say about his confrontation with Haney:

  "At the time, I feel that Lee's posing and presentation were much better than mine. Physically, his pecs were thicker and his back probably better. It's a shame that he retired, because I would ahve loved a re-match."  Interview to Bill Dobbins, FLEX, 1997.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Hulkster]

Hammer, where you there.  I was there and within twenty rows of the stage.  Haney absolutely slaughtered Yates.  Haney had far prettier muscle bellies, was larger and his taper was amazing.  His waist absolutely made Yates look pregnant.  Yates was a damn fine runner-up but that is all.  In fact, Yates of 1991 was amazingly similar to Yates 1992.  Haney would have whooped him then.  Now, Yates of 1993 was a beast.  He got a hold of some really good stuff.  He was 256 pounds of iron.  There, Yates would have won but only on size; his taper was slowly going south.  Regardless, those early pics of Yates and Haney show how much better they are than Cutler.  Ronnie in 1998/1999 and 2003 would have crushed any version of either, however.  Oops, isn't there a small thread around here about that matter....sorry.

agreed!

[donrhummy]

  Haney defeated Dorian due to better symmetry. By that, I mean that Haney had the better structure and proportionality. Lee clearly won the symmetry round due to his wasp-waist and wide clavicles. I have said time and time again that Haney is an underrated bodybuilder. He is, arguably, the only bodybuilder who could do a vacuum pose at 250 lbs and had no muscle missing.

  As far as muscularity, I think it was much closer than the judges ruled. It's obvious that Haney's delts and pecs were thicker than Dorian's, and while they had equivalent backs in terms of size, Haney's was more separated. The only bodypart, I think, that Dorian soundly defeated Haney was in legs, both quads and calves. Here is what Dorian had to say about his confrontation with Haney:

  "At the time, I feel that Lee's posing and presentation were much better than mine. Physically, his pecs were thicker and his back probably better. It's a shame that he retired, because I would ahve loved a re-match."  Interview to Bill Dobbins, FLEX, 1997.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Mostly agree but while Dorian's calves and hams were better than Haney's, his quads were not. Dorian's quads lacked detail/striations and weren't wuite big enough for his upper body and calves. Haney's quads were striated, had a little more sweep than Dorian's and didn't lag as much behind his body. So they both had pros/cons about their legs.

[pumpster]

Blah, blah, blah ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Bottom line: they were very comparable. Who was better is personal taste. Top-notch tier-B Olympians. Both far too flawed to be in the same sentence with Coleman, Schwarzenegger & Oliva. Let alone being any better than guys who would've beaten them in fair contests, like Wheeler, Dillet, Levrone, Nasser, etc.

Hope this helps