Mayweather sets a challenge for Liddell

[americanbulldog]

I don't think you'd have to worry about the kicks, but you would have to defend the takedown.  Takedown defense, or posture is opposite from boxing defense.  Hands in and low is not hands up covering the ribs/jaw.  Good wrestlers will close the gap, get the single, double, and it would be all over.  Oscar would get taken down by Kid ALL DAY.  Soon as a jab is thrown, Kid is in, game over. 

[Earl1972]

And Earl you would be a lousy Fight analyst. Wether it would be boxing or Thumb wrestling....

I would be excellent

E

[Earl1972]

I would take Fedor in a street fight over any boxer 

fedor yes

chuck I'm not so sure

E

[legbreaker]

boxing is losing its appeal. mayweather is just try to stir things up..thats all. bottomeline is that people aren't buying boxing events anymore. mma is taking over

MMA fans are already beginning to chant "boring" at events.  MMA has reached it's top audience and, as the reality show ratings show, will begin to decline in ratings significantly.

Boxing requires much more legit training. What I mean by that is that to be great at boxing (a top 5 fighter in the world and olympics) you MUST do it for many many years...since childhood.  I know mma people that started 5 years ago and are WELL known names in the industry.

Not to take anything away from mma because I respect and love the sport, but boxing is always gonna be around, olympics, empire state type games, kid gloves etc.  Also, boxing is most practiced by kids from the ghetto or people that grew up tough and struggled.  MMA in america is getting a following of soft white kids that are weak grew up soft and went to college etc.  You can teachj these kids or people skill, but you can not teah someone heart and toughness.  Therefore I believe that the next generation of american mma students and athletes are going to be these kids and not legit tough guys so the sport will see a american decline or a brazilian take over.

The brazilian guys taht take up mma seem to be from legit tough backrounds and just simply had tougher lives...no college etc.

[americanbulldog]

MMA fans are already beginning to chant "boring" at events.  MMA has reached it's top audience and, as the reality show ratings show, will begin to decline in ratings significantly.

Boxing requires much more legit training. What I mean by that is that to be great at boxing (a top 5 fighter in the world and olympics) you MUST do it for many many years...since childhood.  I know mma people that started 5 years ago and are WELL known names in the industry.

Not to take anything away from mma because I respect and love the sport, but boxing is always gonna be around, olympics, empire state type games, kid gloves etc.  Also, boxing is most practiced by kids from the ghetto or people that grew up tough and struggled.  MMA in america is getting a following of soft white kids that are weak grew up soft and went to college etc.  You can teachj these kids or people skill, but you can not teah someone heart and toughness.  Therefore I believe that the next generation of american mma students and athletes are going to be these kids and not legit tough guys so the sport will see a american decline or a brazilian take over.

The brazilian guys taht take up mma seem to be from legit tough backrounds and just simply had tougher lives...no college etc.

Boxing training does take a lot of time to be REALLY GOOD.  Boxing has tremendous potential for injury.  You will see more and more differing type of athletes drawn to MMA.  With the formulation of a rival league to the Zuffa empire, and the PPV revenue, more and more money gets maid, and better and diverging athletes enter it. 

MMA like boxing gets a lot of kids from tough inner city areas.  Look at who dominates it, Eastern Europeans, Brazillians.  Vale Tudo was created in Brazil, a place many people would call a third world nation.  With the wide ranging skillset, an MMA athlete can end a fight in more than one way.  Boxing as a result will have more deaths, more injuries and shorter careers.  Randy is still fighting, for Christ sakes.  Chuck is nearly fourty.  Now you will have an outlet for combat athletes who stopped at the national levels (judokas, wrestlers, kickboxers, boxers).  You will see an increase of events, fighters. 

[20inch calves]

MMA fans are already beginning to chant "boring" at events.  MMA has reached it's top audience and, as the reality show ratings show, will begin to decline in ratings significantly.

Boxing requires much more legit training. What I mean by that is that to be great at boxing (a top 5 fighter in the world and olympics) you MUST do it for many many years...since childhood.  I know mma people that started 5 years ago and are WELL known names in the industry.

Not to take anything away from mma because I respect and love the sport, but boxing is always gonna be around, olympics, empire state type games, kid gloves etc.  Also, boxing is most practiced by kids from the ghetto or people that grew up tough and struggled.  MMA in america is getting a following of soft white kids that are weak grew up soft and went to college etc.  You can teachj these kids or people skill, but you can not teah someone heart and toughness.  Therefore I believe that the next generation of american mma students and athletes are going to be these kids and not legit tough guys so the sport will see a american decline or a brazilian take over.

The brazilian guys taht take up mma seem to be from legit tough backrounds and just simply had tougher lives...no college etc.

most of you statements were kind of ignorant to say it nicely.  mma is a bunch or soft white kids with no heart or toughness....whatever

go tell chuck or rich that

[legbreaker]

most of you statements were kind of ignorant to say it nicely.  mma is a bunch or soft white kids with no heart or toughness....whatever

go tell chuck or rich that

Are you saying that lots of american mma known guys don't come from backrounds unlike boxers?  Boxers, for the most part, come from tough lower class backrounds.  American MMA go to college....if you go to college things were basically simple, compared to a guy from a tough upbringing.....Do you dis agree with that?  What is your argument against it?  Instead of saying it's ignorant, prove it wrong.  Tell me the backround of most of the top American mma guys...not brazilian and then we will discuss.  You got the forum, prove your point.

[legbreaker]

Boxing training does take a lot of time to be REALLY GOOD.  Boxing has tremendous potential for injury.  You will see more and more differing type of athletes drawn to MMA.  With the formulation of a rival league to the Zuffa empire, and the PPV revenue, more and more money gets maid, and better and diverging athletes enter it. 

MMA like boxing gets a lot of kids from tough inner city areas.  Look at who dominates it, Eastern Europeans, Brazillians.  Vale Tudo was created in Brazil, a place many people would call a third world nation.  With the wide ranging skillset, an MMA athlete can end a fight in more than one way.  Boxing as a result will have more deaths, more injuries and shorter careers.  Randy is still fighting, for Christ sakes.  Chuck is nearly fourty.  Now you will have an outlet for combat athletes who stopped at the national levels (judokas, wrestlers, kickboxers, boxers).  You will see an increase of events, fighters. 

I do agree with what you have said.  It seems that mma athletes from other country's are coming from the tough, lower class areas....that's why I separated American mma athletes from others.  For some reason mma has attracted lots of educated upper middle class people in america....In lower class areas, I don't see mma becoming as popular as boxing....except in areas dominated by south americans, Miami, Los angeles etc.  How about you?  Are you from America?  If so, who do you see training in mma, other than south americans?  I see white college guys.

[americanbulldog]

At the school I attend, there are a lot of professionals.  But at some of the schools I have been at, you get a lot of tough kids from poor backrounds.  One of the reasons I switched, was to attend a more BJJ oriented school with people who have to go to work jobs the next day and don't want to be tested by every 19-21 year old punk who wants to make a name for himself at a small show.  BJJ, although very physical, doens't involve getting kneed and elbowed from side control, or having a knuckleheaded polynesian kid pick you up and slam you from a triangle attempt.  Sparring is one thing, thinking it is cool to have constant black eyes, or getting your nose broke aint my cup of tea anymore.  I'll stick to sub grappling and BJJ. 

[20inch calves]

Are you saying that lots of american mma known guys don't come from backrounds unlike boxers?  Boxers, for the most part, come from tough lower class backrounds.  American MMA go to college....if you go to college things were basically simple, compared to a guy from a tough upbringing.....Do you dis agree with that?  What is your argument against it?  Instead of saying it's ignorant, prove it wrong.  Tell me the backround of most of the top American mma guys...not brazilian and then we will discuss.  You got the forum, prove your point.

i am not going to debate this, you make it sound like because these "white kids" grow up go to college that they grew up soft. just because someone grew up with both parents that worked instead of living off the goverment doesn't mean they are soft. a lower class background doesn't make you hard or give you heart...thats all i am saying.

[SinCitysmallGUY]

i am not going to debate this, you make it sound like because these "white kids" grow up go to college that they grew up soft. just because someone grew up with both parents that worked instead of living off the goverment doesn't mean they are soft. a lower class background doesn't make you hard or give you heart...thats all i am saying.

Shit I am one of these lower class kids who grew up with shit. I've been training MMA for about 12 years or so. I also attend college by my choice I am the one paying for it. My parents don't pay a dime. I grew up running the streets just like any other kid from the bronx or philly. I choose MMA because God gave me more then my fists as weapons. You fight how you train and I didnt want to only know how to punch.... I wanted to be well rounded and a boxer is not well rounded.

[Benny B]

Shit I am one of these lower class kids who grew up with shit. I've been training MMA for about 12 years or so. I also attend college by my choice I am the one paying for it. My parents don't pay a dime. I grew up running the streets just like any other kid from the bronx or philly. I choose MMA because God gave me more then my fists as weapons. You fight how you train and I didnt want to only know how to punch.... I wanted to be well rounded and a boxer is not well rounded.

For every guy like you there are ten guys who will choose boxing as a "fighting sport" coming out of the inner city. Maybe that will change as the money gets bigger. But right now mma definitely draws more lower to middle-class American kids who grew up in suburban or rural areas and went to college, typically as wrestlers.

Most inner-city minority kids see fighting as something done with the hands, and aren't too keen on wrestling.

[SinCitysmallGUY]

For every guy like you there are ten guys who will choose boxing as a "fighting sport" coming out of the inner city. Maybe that will change as the money gets bigger. But right now mma definitely draws more lower to middle-class American kids who grew up in suburban or rural areas and went to college, typically as wrestlers.

Most inner-city minority kids see fighting as something done with the hands, and aren't too keen on wrestling.

I didnt start training the ground until later in life like the last 5 or 6 years. But when I started training I had seen what knees and elbows could do. So I wanted to learn how to train them and be comfortable using them. Also I wanted to know how to kick. After I learned how to stand and fight I knew the ground was what was next to learn and this after I had my ass handed to me by my old man who has trained for over 20 years and has stand up and ground game. Plus he was alot bigger so Ground game was a must. Now I feel like I can more then handle my self against a boxer, wrestler, or anyone who has only trained 1 area...

[Benny B]

I didnt start training the ground until later in life like the last 5 or 6 years. But when I started training I had seen what knees and elbows could do. So I wanted to learn how to train them and be comfortable using them. Also I wanted to know how to kick. After I learned how to stand and fight I knew the ground was what was next to learn and this after I had my ass handed to me by my old man who has trained for over 20 years and has stand up and ground game. Plus he was alot bigger so Ground game was a must. Now I feel like I can more then handle my self against a boxer, wrestler, or anyone who has only trained 1 area...

Hey, I understand your thought process completely. I'm from the Bronx, and I know how much respect guys who can box and handle themselves with their hands get in the neighborhood. But I was a kid fascinated with martial arts from an early age and was blessed to train under some very skilled teachers. I love boxing as a spectator sport and think it is an effective self-defense method, however once you learn other things to expand your knowledge base you want to learn more and more and have "tricks" in your arsenal that the average thug on the street isn't prepared for.

[SinCitysmallGUY]

Hey, I understand your thought process completely. I'm from the Bronx, and I know how much respect guys who can box and handle themselves with their hands get in the neighborhood. But I was a kid fascinated with martial arts from an early age and was blessed to train under some very skilled teachers. I love boxing as a spectator sport and think it is an effective self-defense method, however once you learn other things to expand your knowledge base you want to learn more and more and have "tricks" in your arsenal that the average thug on the street isn't prepared for.

Hell yeah I hear you, I have trained under some pretty good guys and understand what your saying. I used to be one of those street thugs. But hell I didn't do it for the street. I plan on getting in the cage a few times before my wife and I have our first child. Martial Arts has taught me respect and discipline and probably kept me from being in the penitentiary. I didn't have time to be out doing stupid shit with my friends when I really started to love what I was being taught. Shit and since I started training I don't get involved in street altercations. Not worth going to jail or having to pay a hospital bill... Everyone now adays is a tough guy who loves to press charges once they get their teeth knocked out... Even the instigators... Please officer can I press charges...

[Benny B]

Everyone now adays is a tough guy who loves to press charges once they get their teeth knocked out... Even the instigators... Please officer can I press charges...

Haha...no doubt, bro.  Dudes can't accept an ass whuppin' like a man nowadays. 
When I think about how much martial arts, lifting, and things like baseball kept me focused and off the streets I thank God. So many guys I know got locked up, are dead, or have all kinds of addiction problems. I did some wild shit in my younger days, but I always drew the line at a certain point. I guess I was blessed with the ability to see the long-term consequences of certain actions when other guys never looked past tomorrow.

[americanbulldog]

For every guy like you there are ten guys who will choose boxing as a "fighting sport" coming out of the inner city. Maybe that will change as the money gets bigger. But right now mma definitely draws more lower to middle-class American kids who grew up in suburban or rural areas and went to college, typically as wrestlers.

Most inner-city minority kids see fighting as something done with the hands, and aren't too keen on wrestling.

College level wrestlers are just as hard and ruthless as some inner city kids.  Wrestling in and of itself is a very physical, brutal to the body and great for discipline, mental attitude, and general toughness. 

[Benny B]

College level wrestlers are just as hard and ruthless as some inner city kids.  Wrestling in and of itself is a very physical, brutal to the body and great for discipline, mental attitude, and general toughness. 

I agree with that, AB. But that toughness is generally acquired from the intensity of the training. A lot of inner-city kids are tough just from what they had to deal with everyday walking to school. Nothing really compares to the confidence you get from surviving in a really bad neighborhood. Of course that won't automatically make you a great athlete. Many of these wrestlers are pretty gifted athletes.

In my opinion wrestling is the hardest sport to train in. Football practice is tough...wrestling is brutal. I didn't wrestle in college, but I had a friend who did and I used to watch them sweat it out in practice. Plus, all the crazy things they did to make weight. I thought they were psychos. LOL

[~salmon~]

Who gives a flying fuck if a top MMA fighter could not win a boxing match....Boxing is fooking BOOOOORING!!!!!

The true definition of "owning" someone, is to beat the shit out of them in a real fight.  The reason why MMA is growing so quickly, is because it's as close as it gets to a real fight.  A top ranked pro boxer would have his ass handed to him in a real fight against any experienced MMA fighter. 

UFC PPV fights are already getting higher ratings than boxing.  The money is starting to flow in.  Soon enough, you'll start seeing the payouts increase accordingly.


Boxing is in the toilet and someone is about to flush.

Earl, stick to sniffing Leverone panties.

[Benny B]

A top ranked pro boxer would have his ass handed to him in a real fight against any experienced MMA fighter. 

Again, in many instances but not necessarily.[sigh]

[Petrucci]

Who gives a flying fuck if a top MMA fighter could not win a boxing match....Boxing is fooking BOOOOORING!!!!!

The true definition of "owning" someone, is to beat the shit out of them in a real fight.  The reason why MMA is growing so quickly, is because it's as close as it gets to a real fight.  A top ranked pro boxer would have his ass handed to him in a real fight against any experienced MMA fighter. 

UFC PPV fights are already getting higher ratings than boxing.  The money is starting to flow in.  Soon enough, you'll start seeing the payouts increase accordingly.


Boxing is in the toilet and someone is about to flush.

Earl, stick to sniffing Leverone panties.

yeah but one of the most exciting things MMA its exactly the standup shows...guys like Cro Cop and Fedor who have great punching skills...It may not be boxing itself, but boxing techniques being used more cause a more exciting fight for who is watching (just remember Belfort when he hit the scene, and he was a jiujitsu fighter, but known for his boxing)

[~salmon~]

yeah but one of the most exciting things MMA its exactly the standup shows...guys like Cro Cop and Fedor who have great punching skills...It may not be boxing itself, but boxing techniques being used more cause a more exciting fight for who is watching (just remember Belfort when he hit the scene, and he was a jiujitsu fighter, but known for his boxing)

Watching two guys dry-hump each other for 15 minutes is as boring as watching two guys spar.  But, to me, a good grappling fight is as exciting as a good striking fight.     

[SinCitysmallGUY]

Watching two guys dry-hump each other for 15 minutes is as boring as watching two guys spar.  But, to me, a good grappling fight is as exciting as a good striking fight.     

I almost freaked when I started watching this but you are correct sir. If they are grappling and moving and attempting techniuqes or setting them up then it is great. The last Matt Hughes fight was a decent grappling match. Tim " I lost my Belt" vs. Munson was not..

[americanbulldog]

Watching two guys dry-hump each other for 15 minutes is as boring as watching two guys spar.  But, to me, a good grappling fight is as exciting as a good striking fight.     

A grappling match where the grapplers are not being aggressive is boring.  The Tim/Monson fight was boring because Tim didn't get aggresive from bottom, and Monson wasn't aggressive in passing.  Tim jumped to his shoulders and attempted a triangle.  Had he been a little more aggressive, he could have sunk it in.  (Triangles, like all subs are simply a matter of adjusting, and committing)

[SinCitysmallGUY]

A grappling match where the grapplers are not being aggressive is boring.  The Tim/Monson fight was boring because Tim didn't get aggresive from bottom, and Monson wasn't aggressive in passing.  Tim jumped to his shoulders and attempted a triangle.  Had he been a little more aggressive, he could have sunk it in.  (Triangles, like all subs are simply a matter of adjusting, and committing)

agreed but I hate seeing guys commit when they dont have it.. The first rule is if you dont have it, dont commit..... so many guys waste energy trying to sink an armbar when they dont have it 100%