Author Topic: Does Karate Work?  (Read 21205 times)

americanbulldog

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2681
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #100 on: May 30, 2007, 03:10:56 AM »
Hi all,

I'm new to posting.  Anyway, Ive been training for a while.  I did Karate as a kid made it to brown belt.  My father put me through it specifically for discipline and balance.  I've been boxing since I was 12 and been kickboxing since I was 15.  Ive found that in fighting its mostly dependent on the fighter.

Ive had a few fights and noticed that many people have their own style no matter what it is.  But, I found that guys who strictly stick to a discipline such as karate seem to have a disadvantage in a real fight situation. Simply because in order to be effective you would of had years of experience, training etc..

Whereas, in kickboxing Ive seen fighters pick up formidable fighting skills within a year or so (does not apply if your full time geek :S ) Anyhow, I plan on fighting for a few titles to back my name up hopefully by end of the year :D

So when you think about it you could train for years in karate and still be shit when if you train the same with kickboxing you would more likely be more effective in a real fight.  By the way I had a fight street fight with a black belt dude once knocked him out one punch so black belt or not it just depends on the individual.  ( Not trying to brag or anything just being factual many people are like wow "black belt!" just bs labels - black belt or what still human).

In my books kickboxing is the number one striking style simply because its basic yet extremely effective while karate can complicate things. (Sorry guys my karate is limited so feel free to comment).

Sorry for long post!

Mad Sole has spokent the correct.  Not to mention his Sunga sister would kill Danny B.   ;D

realkarateblackbelt

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2095
  • Numero UNO!!!!!!!
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #101 on: May 30, 2007, 04:48:46 AM »
Mad Samoan is correct on some points. I must admit I'm surprised.

Muay-Thai/Kickboxing(kickboxing as a style is really just karate without the formalities, katas, and with boxing punches.) is effective at an earlier stage than karate because it teaches you the most effective strikes and focuses on those from the beginning. Karate teaches you the same strikes, and many more, and they also put greater demand on perfection of technique.
It takes much longer to become proficient in Karate but the payoff is greater.

In today's "give it to me now" ADHD world, perhaps most people are better taking kickboxing.
TEAM REPTILIAN

PUERTOROCKS

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 113
  • Get big or die tryin
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #102 on: May 31, 2007, 08:10:19 AM »
Boxing is probably the best art.

Bruce Lee said a good striker will always beat a good martial artist.
Get big or die tryin!

Bluto

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 33175
  • Well?
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #103 on: May 31, 2007, 08:19:36 AM »
Boxing is probably the best art.

Bruce Lee said a good striker will always beat a good martial artist.

yes and thats why karate sucks. because they for most of the time dont allow punches to the head

Z

omg

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 585
  • Maybe we all just havent figured it out yet
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #104 on: May 31, 2007, 08:32:00 AM »
Mad Samoan is correct on some points. I must admit I'm surprised.

Muay-Thai/Kickboxing(kickboxing as a style is really just karate without the formalities, katas, and with boxing punches.) is effective at an earlier stage than karate because it teaches you the most effective strikes and focuses on those from the beginning. Karate teaches you the same strikes, and many more, and they also put greater demand on perfection of technique.
It takes much longer to become proficient in Karate but the payoff is greater.

In today's "give it to me now" ADHD world, perhaps most people are better taking kickboxing.

why not buy a gun or taser? much more effective

Bluto

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 33175
  • Well?
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #105 on: May 31, 2007, 08:45:16 AM »
realkarateblackbelt is easily one of the most delusional clowns to ever post here i havent read so much bullshit since scimoweser said kicks was usefull in a street fight

Z

MADSamoan

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 15
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #106 on: May 31, 2007, 12:13:45 PM »
Boxing is probably the best art.

Bruce Lee said a good striker will always beat a good martial artist.

Kickboxing is a combination of boxing and kicking..!!   Boxing is ok but realistically if a boxer comes accross a guy who can use his legs effectively he ll have a very hard time trying to get close.

This is because boxers have a habit of leaning slightly forward on their front leg, in a hunched type defensive position - this gives people who can kick an excellent target since there is limited chance for the boxer to avoid the kick attack.  This is simply because all their weight is on the front leg.  (Of course there are exceptions - if your very quick).

Just take a look look at some of the k1 fights where boxers enter the ring thers one with Lebanner and this boxer dude with american shorts on.(Sorry guys cant be stuff looking)

Kickboxers have a more upright fighting stance which allows greater manouverability with their legs - give better range with kick attacks allows an effective defense vs kicks.

By the way, who would want a gun? Only pussy's would use a gun or a weapon because they cant fight. A gun would mean you intend to kill who wants to do that?  Even if you do shoot them in the leg they might die.. Only paranoid people carry guns because theyre scared of other people with guns or/and that they lack skill, strength, confidence to defend themselves adequately.  Unless you live in Iraq who needs a gun?...  People who post get a gun are fuckn idiots thats not the point of the discussion.

Take the gun away and what do you have? Nothing but your skills if you cant fight lol practice your diplomacy skills "Ahh You dont want to do this I know Karate! Rrrrrraaa!!!".. 2 step running technique works just as good :D



Bluto

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 33175
  • Well?
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #107 on: May 31, 2007, 12:14:53 PM »
legs are useless in a fight.

hope this helps
Z

MADSamoan

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 15
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #108 on: May 31, 2007, 12:15:33 PM »
realkarateblackbelt is easily one of the most delusional clowns to ever post here i havent read so much bullshit since scimoweser said kicks was usefull in a street fight



There are different types of kicks - kicks can be effective just none of that fancy shit. Instead Bluto you should say "I cant use kicks in a fight" Your throwing a blanket statement.

Front kicks are very effective but none of that fancy technique stuff - a simple lunge kick to the chest area can put your opponent on the ground. Then theres the kick to the head while on ground :D


Bluto

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 33175
  • Well?
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #109 on: May 31, 2007, 12:16:35 PM »
There are different types of kicks - kicks can be effective just none of that fancy shit.

no.

all kicks are equally worthless

maybe with the exception of a stop kick/front kick
Z

MADSamoan

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 15
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #110 on: May 31, 2007, 12:21:18 PM »
no.

all kicks are equally worthless

maybe with the exception of a stop kick/front kick


Yea you know what I mean then :D Ive seen one dude though use a head kick that layed this guy out cold.  A lil Chinese dude he won heaps of respect from the island boys (the guy he laid out was a samoan dude a friend of mine). Lol we all saw it but rather than pounce on him we were like whoaa! nice kick dude lol

daddy8ball

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 958
  • Violence is not the answer. It is the question.
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #111 on: May 31, 2007, 12:22:46 PM »
My Gymkata fighting style has seen me through several fights successfully.



 8)
The answer is "yes".

americanbulldog

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2681
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #112 on: May 31, 2007, 10:01:56 PM »
Yea you know what I mean then :D Ive seen one dude though use a head kick that layed this guy out cold.  A lil Chinese dude he won heaps of respect from the island boys (the guy he laid out was a samoan dude a friend of mine). Lol we all saw it but rather than pounce on him we were like whoaa! nice kick dude lol

Best counter to the roundhouse kick to the leg is to step in and throw your cross.  (followed by lead hand hook and a knee to cap it off)

omg

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 585
  • Maybe we all just havent figured it out yet
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #113 on: May 31, 2007, 11:38:14 PM »
no.

all kicks are equally worthless

maybe with the exception of a stop kick/front kick


stupidiest statement of the century

one good kick to anywhere will wind a person up

Bluto

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 33175
  • Well?
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #114 on: June 01, 2007, 02:04:54 AM »
stupidiest statement of the century

one good kick to anywhere will wind a person up

yeah that sounds really usefull  ::)
Z

realkarateblackbelt

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2095
  • Numero UNO!!!!!!!
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #115 on: June 01, 2007, 05:14:19 AM »
I've used a kick effectively against a guy that obviously had boxing experience. He charged right into a roundhouse to the face. A front kick would have been even better though.
TEAM REPTILIAN

realkarateblackbelt

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2095
  • Numero UNO!!!!!!!
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #116 on: June 01, 2007, 05:17:30 AM »
Boxing is probably the best art.

Bruce Lee said a good striker will always beat a good martial artist.

Yes, I see how well the boxers have done in K-1. I can't believe people still reference Bruce Lee. The foundation of his art "Jeet Kune Do" is wing chun Gung Fu, and there aren't a lot of Gung Fu guys dominating K-1 either hahahaha. I think Shaolin would be good, but there aren't many legitimate Shoalin guys outside of the monastery as far as I know. Okinawan karate is heavily influenced by Shaolin - Shorin-ryu - Shaolin-fist!

K-1 is dominated by FC Karate, Muay-Thai, and kickboxing.

Also, Bruce Lee never competed, he was an actor, and Chuck Norris (karate guy!) implied without saying it that he would kick Bruce Lee's ass in a recent radio interview.
TEAM REPTILIAN

americanbulldog

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2681
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #117 on: June 01, 2007, 12:25:11 PM »
Yes, I see how well the boxers have done in K-1. I can't believe people still reference Bruce Lee. The foundation of his art "Jeet Kune Do" is wing chun Gung Fu, and there aren't a lot of Gung Fu guys dominating K-1 either hahahaha. I think Shaolin would be good, but there aren't many legitimate Shoalin guys outside of the monastery as far as I know. Okinawan karate is heavily influenced by Shaolin - Shorin-ryu - Shaolin-fist!

K-1 is dominated by FC Karate, Muay-Thai, and kickboxing.

Also, Bruce Lee never competed, he was an actor, and Chuck Norris (karate guy!) implied without saying it that he would kick Bruce Lee's ass in a recent radio interview.

Wrong, Norris is a Tong Soo Do guy.  Don't tell me that this is Karate as well.....And in the history of K1, there was two FC Karate champs, Hug, and Semmy.  Get your facts straight. 

realkarateblackbelt

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2095
  • Numero UNO!!!!!!!
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #118 on: June 01, 2007, 05:30:53 PM »
Wrong, Norris is a Tong Soo Do guy.  Don't tell me that this is Karate as well.....And in the history of K1, there was two FC Karate champs, Hug, and Semmy.  Get your facts straight. 

Don't you mean Tang Soo do? Depending on who you ask, it's a form of karate.

I said K-1 champs have been Muay-Thai, Kickboxers, and FC Karate. There's no contradiction here. Fewer full-contact Karate guys enter K-1 because they have their own tournaments, and Kyokushin doesn't like their fighters competing outside.

I'm not wrong about ANYTHING! You make yourself look foolish.
TEAM REPTILIAN

americanbulldog

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2681
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #119 on: June 01, 2007, 07:05:10 PM »
None of the people commenting are Karate practicioners and have no clue what they are talking about. More 17 year olds weighing 160 pounds with yellow belts in BJJ commenting of something they don't know about.

People that are REALLY in the know in MMA/K-1 know full contact karate is arguably the best standup fighting style. It's certainly most complete. Taking FC Karate you will learn ALL the kicks they teach in Muay-Thai (though they are executed slightly differently, with more emphasis on hip shifting) and many more. It's the most comprehensive standup style, the closest to the Greek Pancratium; every bodily weapon is employed. In Japan karate is taken very seriously. They invited Muay Thai fighters to Japan to compete against the top FC Karate fighters, and the Karate fighters got the better of them. It's also proven in sport fighting/kickboxing events like K-1.

K-1 essentially determines the best standup fighter in the world. Succesful fighters in K-1 are either FC KARATE or Muay-Thai practicioners. No boxer has excelled in K-1. The "White Buffalo" Francois Botha (held his own with Tyson before being Ko'd) didn't make it very far. Japanese Karate fighter Musashi beat former renowned boxer Ray Mercer.

The current champion of K-1, Semmy Schilt, is a Seidokaikan(an offshoot of Kyokushin) Karate Fighter.
Kyokushinkai Andy Hug (called the "blue-eyed samarai" in Japan) won the K-1 grand Prix championships in 96 before dying of Leukemia at roughly 210 pounds, very small for a K-1 fighter. He also beat Mirko Cro Cop, a kickboxer everyone nuts over.  

UFC heavyweight champion, King of Pancrase, Bas Rutten on his fighting background:

Anyone that has taken FCKarate and seen Bas take out opponent after opponent with close-range body strikes in Pancrase knows that's something they practice in FCkarate all the time. They don't allow you to punch each other in the face with bare knuckles (though kicking and kneeing is legal) because you wouldn't be able to train anymore if your jaw is fractured or your cheeks are broken. It is important training without gloves, because it is very close to real fighting, effecting how you block. You block differently with gloves. Enroll yourself with your cocky attitude and see how tough you really are.

The standup on UFC with few exceptions is pathetic. FCKARATE will teach you real standup fighting. Stick with Kyokushin, Goju-Ryu (or any okinawan style taught traditionally), stay away from Tae Kwon Do (point fighting), Shotokan (stances too deep, very linear). Karate is proven effective.

K-1 fight held under FC KARATE Rules:



Karate Fighter Andy Hug beating Muay Thai Fighter and K-1 finalist Changphuak Kiatsongrit

&mode=related&search=

Renowned Kickboxer Pat Smith (UFC veteran) losing to unknown Japanese Karate Fighter



Karate beating Muay Thai (Japan):

&mode=related&search=

Karate Kicking Demonstration (Japan):

&mode=related&search=


Here is a post where you reperesnt that karate is better than MT. 

Let me make this clear for you.  I do think Karate is effective.  Is it the be all end all you make it out to be.  NO.

To say Tong Soo Do is a form of Karate is like saying Sambo is a form of Judo.  Although most of the techniques are descendant from Judo, Sambo and BJJ are not Judo.  Count Maeda's judo looks totally different from what Carlos taught Relio.  And Relio's style is totally different from Carlos.  You can't claim one thing when it helps you argument, then deny it when it doesn't help.  Heck, if thats the case, everyone should just take Judo.  Jigoro Kano devised the perfect system which spawned BJJ and Sambo.  Vasili Oshchepkov, is widely recognized as one of the founders of Sambo, was a black belt in Judo.  So Judo must be the most effective art because it birthed BJJ (which has produced the most MMA fighters, and was undefeated in Vale Tudo (which most resembles a street fight) and Sambo because the worlds best fighter trains in that.  (Fedor, not Semy)

Lets alll agree that Karate would and will work in some circumstances, and is an effective form of self defense.  But to prattle on and on about how it is the best stand up art is reeeeediculous.  And did you get a hold of Bas?  Did he tell you why he has guys training MT at Legends.  How many Karate classes are offered by El Guapo.  Erik Paulson's first martial art was TKD.  Is he a TKD sytlist?  Does he teach Josh Barnett TKD?  Ken Shamrock should have shown some TKD after training with Erik, shouldn't he?  How about Frank Trigg, surely his axe kick must be out of this world? 


SinCitysmallGUY

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4317
  • FIST-ta-CUFF Radio
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #120 on: June 01, 2007, 07:50:37 PM »
I can't spell his name but any true practicioner will know who I am talking about... One of the greatest Karate grand masters is maso yama (That's the best way for me to put it.) But that man was a true warrior..I remember when I was 10 my cousin telling me of him killing bulls with his bare hands and shit. After cutting off their horns with his bare hands.. That in a ring would be deadly, I dont care who your fighting......

realkarateblackbelt

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2095
  • Numero UNO!!!!!!!
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #121 on: June 01, 2007, 08:23:01 PM »
I can't spell his name but any true practicioner will know who I am talking about... One of the greatest Karate grand masters is maso yama (That's the best way for me to put it.) But that man was a true warrior..I remember when I was 10 my cousin telling me of him killing bulls with his bare hands and shit. After cutting off their horns with his bare hands.. That in a ring would be deadly, I dont care who your fighting......

That's Masutasu Oyama, founder of Kyokushin Karate, the style of Andy Hug, former K-1 champ.
TEAM REPTILIAN

Bluto

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 33175
  • Well?
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #122 on: June 02, 2007, 02:37:06 AM »
there's only a handfull of people with karate background in k1 and their success is because of their ability as athletes and crosstraining, not karate.

in fact, if they had not wasted time on karate they would've been even MORE successful.

so to answer your question - no karate doesnt work. not on the street, hardly in the ring.
Z

americanbulldog

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2681
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #123 on: June 02, 2007, 11:29:34 AM »
there's only a handfull of people with karate background in k1 and their success is because of their ability as athletes and crosstraining, not karate.

in fact, if they had not wasted time on karate they would've been even MORE successful.

so to answer your question - no karate doesnt work. not on the street, hardly in the ring.


Actually agree with Bluto on this.  It takes longer (admittedly) for a karateka to train in a "live" manner and develop the attributes of fighting.  A lot of time is spent on self perfection of technique versus developing, timing, speed, power, body mechanics, line familiarization, killer instinct, conditioning. 

SinCitysmallGUY

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4317
  • FIST-ta-CUFF Radio
Re: Does Karate Work?
« Reply #124 on: June 02, 2007, 11:36:49 AM »
That's Masutasu Oyama, founder of Kyokushin Karate, the style of Andy Hug, former K-1 champ.

I know this man he is one of my favorite fighters of all time...