Author Topic: Flex and Kidney failure  (Read 5466 times)

gordiano

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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2007, 11:15:47 PM »
It's TexasBlubber again, Lee Thompson ;D

NO DAMMIT! It's his brother -in-law..... ;D
HAHA, RON.....

nycbull

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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2007, 05:11:15 AM »
doctors suck. They aren't smart. They are only capable of remembering a lot of information to past tests but thats about it, not much analytical or problem solving intelligence. I have met a lot of doctors and they are not smart people. Some are of course but most are not. They are not well rounded or well read. Most of them do standard diagnosis and apply standard protocols that have already been laid out by other doctors and researchers. They do nothing new or challenging. Architects, Engineers, and some types of Lawyers are much smarter overall than doctors. 

Doctors are in it for the money too, how many really give a shit about the state of health care in the US. None of them are mobilized to do anything to change it. They just want to show up and get paid. Thats about it.
How many of you have had a doctor run in and out in 5 minutes, and if you try to pin them down to answer your questions they get annoyed. We all have.


Pollux

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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2007, 05:18:08 AM »
I'm John McClain. I'll never die

Actually, it's John McClane. But who gives a shit, right?  ;D

D.L. 5

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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2007, 05:20:26 AM »
reality check to the author of this topic.

if u think anabolic steroids, the unhealthy diet needed to be a pro bodybuilder (such high protien and high calories), was not the cause of his kidney failure....then u are seriously deluded.
JAY "OLIVE OIL" CUTLER!

Cee21Jay

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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2007, 09:32:51 AM »
doctors suck. They aren't smart. They are only capable of remembering a lot of information to past tests but thats about it, not much analytical or problem solving intelligence. I have met a lot of doctors and they are not smart people. Some are of course but most are not. They are not well rounded or well read. Most of them do standard diagnosis and apply standard protocols that have already been laid out by other doctors and researchers. They do nothing new or challenging. Architects, Engineers, and some types of Lawyers are much smarter overall than doctors. 

Doctors are in it for the money too, how many really give a shit about the state of health care in the US. None of them are mobilized to do anything to change it. They just want to show up and get paid. Thats about it.
How many of you have had a doctor run in and out in 5 minutes, and if you try to pin them down to answer your questions they get annoyed. We all have.



The bolded portion of your quote is very true.  Architects engineers etc, have never impressed me.  Those with PhD's and a varied educational background can be pretty insightful.  Unfortunately there are idiots who attain doctoral degrees (both clinical and educational).  I think it should all be taken on a case by case basis. There are about as many smart people as there are those with good physiques.

Karl Kox

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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2007, 09:34:45 AM »
No

bodybuildermdpitt

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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2007, 10:59:32 AM »
reality check to the author of this topic.

if u think anabolic steroids, the unhealthy diet needed to be a pro bodybuilder (such high protien and high calories), was not the cause of his kidney failure....then u are seriously deluded.
This is just simply not the case. Anabolic steroids and high protein diets have become the scape goats for an easy answer. I will answer try to answer your questions the best I can. This is simply my opinion, please do not assume I am giving medical advice, because ethically I will not do so. I am basing this off of 18 years in the medical field, and 20 years of being involved in the fitness industry. I completed a 5 year residency in General Surgery in an academic center. I have asked Nephrologists, transplant surgeons, and even a cardiologist, to show me one case of which anabolic steroids or high protein diets have caused a sequela of renal or even heart failure. I was not trying to defend steroid or high protein diet use, I just really wanted to learn more about it. You know how many cases I learned about, ready for this, not even one. Surely there must be one case, but not even one. For the sake of science, the population must realize that yes anabolic steroids can have negative sequela, BUT they are not primarily responsible for most of the pathologies (renal failure, heart failure, however, I do agree, if taken orally a lot of them will destroy your liver, but not as bad as alcohol) you guys are associating them with, and actually high protein diets are actually GOOD for the body (find a me paper published in a high power medical journal, which states otherwise). And for my radiation oncologist fellow, I am sure you have access to Pub med or even Ovid, go find me one well written article which has a high power. If you do please post the title, I would be interested in reading it. I can not find one, but it would be great because discourse in this subject is good. The population has to understand that taking anabolic steroids will not kill you FIRST, drinking 15 beers and eating a carb filled garbage diet will do much more damage than anabolics. I realize that I have not addressed the idea that high protein diets are bad for the health. This is simply not true, there is not one paper with a a high enough power, which has come to a statistically significant power to prove this. It is very easy to justify your shortcomings on a lack of knowledge, I suggest all of you who believe otherwise get access to Pub Med and please prove me wrong. I am actually serious, it would be great if could have some proper scientific discourse.

cheers,

bodybuildermdpitt

ether

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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2007, 11:16:02 AM »
I am an american and canadian board certified general surgeon working in Canada.

Firstly, if you have any questions on the matter have nicorulez join this thread, he is board certified nephrologist.

Secondly, assuming that general surgeons don't know shit about kidney failure is just ignorant. Who do you think did the majority of kidney transplants before urologists got interested in it. And, where I practice the urologists (who are more interested in doing 100 cystoscopies at 100 bucks a pop, than getting called in at 2am to do a 5 hour (donor + recipient) surgery) are less than thrilled about transplant surgery.

Finally, Flex is a moron for thinking about competing again. The Roids, HGH, massive amounts of protein and the immunosuppressants he is on (Tacrolimus and Prednisone probably) = certain death.

Cee21Jay

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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2007, 11:19:35 AM »
This is just simply not the case. Anabolic steroids and high protein diets have become the scape goats for an easy answer. I will answer try to answer your questions the best I can. This is simply my opinion, please do not assume I am giving medical advice, because ethically I will not do so. I am basing this off of 18 years in the medical field, and 20 years of being involved in the fitness industry. I completed a 5 year residency in General Surgery in an academic center. I have asked Nephrologists, transplant surgeons, and even a cardiologist, to show me one case of which anabolic steroids or high protein diets have caused a sequela of renal or even heart failure. I was not trying to defend steroid or high protein diet use, I just really wanted to learn more about it. You know how many cases I learned about, ready for this, not even one. Surely there must be one case, but not even one. For the sake of science, the population must realize that yes anabolic steroids can have negative sequela, BUT they are not primarily responsible for most of the pathologies (renal failure, heart failure, however, I do agree, if taken orally a lot of them will destroy your liver, but not as bad as alcohol) you guys are associating them with, and actually high protein diets are actually GOOD for the body (find a me paper published in a high power medical journal, which states otherwise). And for my radiation oncologist fellow, I am sure you have access to Pub med or even Ovid, go find me one well written article which has a high power. If you do please post the title, I would be interested in reading it. I can not find one, but it would be great because discourse in this subject is good. The population has to understand that taking anabolic steroids will not kill you FIRST, drinking 15 beers and eating a carb filled garbage diet will do much more damage than anabolics. I realize that I have not addressed the idea that high protein diets are bad for the health. This is simply not true, there is not one paper with a a high enough power, which has come to a statistically significant power to prove this. It is very easy to justify your shortcomings on a lack of knowledge, I suggest all of you who believe otherwise get access to Pub Med and please prove me wrong. I am actually serious, it would be great if could have some proper scientific discourse.

cheers,

bodybuildermdpitt

What is your opinion on the use of drugs such as DNP and other accessories on Focal Segmental Glomerulosclerosis.  I am sure the verdict is still out on AAS  effect on the kidneys (this is the way it seems to be in research, if there is research on this topic).  I will not even bother to check Pubmed as this is the conclusion that will probably be reached, unless you find otherwise.  I am surprised you seem to be totally ruling AAS it out as a possible cause of kidney issues.

War-Horse

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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2007, 11:22:51 AM »
Competitive Bodybuilding is a waste of time.   I think i will continue to look like a fullback football player.................. .......chicks dig it.  :)


The gear should be replaced with beer and pizza on the weekends......eat clean on weekdays only.

eastcoastbbman

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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2007, 03:47:37 PM »
Mercury based diuretics.










which dieuretics are mercury based?

RadOncDoc

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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2007, 05:25:19 PM »
I am an american and canadian board certified general surgeon working in Canada.

Firstly, if you have any questions on the matter have nicorulez join this thread, he is board certified nephrologist.

Secondly, assuming that general surgeons don't know shit about kidney failure is just ignorant. Who do you think did the majority of kidney transplants before urologists got interested in it. And, where I practice the urologists (who are more interested in doing 100 cystoscopies at 100 bucks a pop, than getting called in at 2am to do a 5 hour (donor + recipient) surgery) are less than thrilled about transplant surgery.

Finally, Flex is a moron for thinking about competing again. The Roids, HGH, massive amounts of protein and the immunosuppressants he is on (Tacrolimus and Prednisone probably) = certain death.


I certainly wasn't saying that a general surgeon wouldn't know something about renal failure. However, my guess is that general surgeons are more versed in the surgical aspects of nephrology (how to do a nephrectomy, post-op care, etc) and would be less likely to be in a position to comment on the specific medical aspects of the glomerulonephropathies. This would be the domain of a nephrologist. And I wouldn't take that as a knock against general surgeons; hell, most board-certified internists other than nephrologists would probably have a hard time even naming all of glomerulonephropathies, let alone medically managing them. General internists just aren't doing this any more. When a patient presents with new-onset RF, nephrotic syndrome, nephritic syndrome, etc. most people just consult nephrology.

tommywishbone

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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2007, 05:29:41 PM »
I am Spartacus! >:(
a

Matt C

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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2007, 06:30:12 PM »
doctors suck. They aren't smart. They are only capable of remembering a lot of information to past tests but thats about it, not much analytical or problem solving intelligence. I have met a lot of doctors and they are not smart people. Some are of course but most are not.

The doctors in this thread seem very smart!










which dieuretics are mercury based?

No idea.  That's just what I heard.
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Bodies

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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2007, 01:20:37 AM »
I thought diuretics were what fucked Flex's kidneys because he would always blow his diet and then OD on Lasix try and fix it at the last min.  Diuretics mess up your kidneys right???   

the_doc

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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2007, 04:03:57 PM »
Nice to see some new docs posting here. Don't mind the haters. Some of the high school kids on here don't believe you are a doc even if you post you're registration details. I tried to explain how the advil was far more harmfull to Prince than the anabolics a few years ago. Some tookit in, others refuse to believe what they don't want to hear.
regards,
the Doc :)
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willie mosconi

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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2007, 04:37:13 PM »
I thought diuretics were what fucked Flex's kidneys because he would always blow his diet and then OD on Lasix try and fix it at the last min.  Diuretics mess up your kidneys right???   

yes- lack of hydration in general is bad for renal function


Bodies

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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2007, 05:21:08 PM »
ok so Flex screwed up his kidneys with diuretics - as did Prince, Long, Ray Mentzer, Etc....where's the arguement here?

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2007, 05:22:27 PM »

which dieuretics are mercury based?
Chad's secret diuretic was mercury based. Said so himself. No one seemed to figure out what it was exactly though. It was a drug taken off the market a long time ago.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2007, 05:24:26 PM »
Nice to see some new docs posting here. Don't mind the haters. Some of the high school kids on here don't believe you are a doc even if you post you're registration details. I tried to explain how the advil was far more harmfull to Prince than the anabolics a few years ago. Some tookit in, others refuse to believe what they don't want to hear.
regards,
the Doc :)
IYO, would there be any reason for Prince to take massive doses of Advil if he was already on a lot of IV narcotics? Wouldn't 'bain be enough to mask pain? I suspect the Advil was a scapegoat but who knows for sure.

Bodies

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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2007, 05:29:09 PM »
funny how individuals with "congenital" kidney, liver, and heart disorders gravitate toward bodybuilding....

3Dkiller

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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2007, 05:30:04 PM »
hello flex where is the ninja story you promised
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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2007, 07:15:25 PM »
funny how individuals with "congenital" kidney, liver, and heart disorders gravitate toward bodybuilding....

dumb luck, I guess?

you'll also note their strong ability to not succumb to the water dehydration and high intake of toxins.

incredible.

the_doc

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Re: Flex and Kidney failure
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2007, 11:43:51 AM »
IYO, would there be any reason for Prince to take massive doses of Advil if he was already on a lot of IV narcotics? Wouldn't 'bain be enough to mask pain? I suspect the Advil was a scapegoat but who knows for sure.

reasonable point. I'm not sure we know the facts re 'bain use and tom. Advil is a good drug for joint pain eg sore elbows, which tom suffered from. They are best used on a regular basis but not for long periods. Tom took too many for too long.
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