Attitudes Toward the Bible

[OzmO]

I have friends who have shrapnel in there legs and sides because of children, and they have friends that got shipped home in boxes because of these children...

if you really think that children cannot be evil, and don't learn from there parents early in there life you are an idiot.  most behavior is picked up early in the early stages of a persons life, anyone who is educated will tell you this.  why do you think things like breast feeding have such a big impact on a persons life?

Sorry for your friends................. ...it doesn't change the fact that there is no justification for killing children regardless of what they do.  THAT'S WHAT CIVILIZED COUNTRIES AND CIVILIZED PEOPLE DO WITH CHILDREN WHO DO BAD THINGS.....like the United States of America and most of civilized world.  (not garden variety religious idiots who think killing children is ok as long it's justified as gods orders)

and if nothing else this book of stories has allot of things that we can and should follow even if you don't believe in God.  think of how many lives would be saved if we fallowed the basic rules put out for us?  we would have no std's, we would have no racism, no hate crimes, little to no poverty.  You ever hear the phrase "common courtesy is a rare thing"?  look at the people who believe even a little bit compared to the people who don't and tell me who does more good for this world.  really think about it, what helps a community more then the church?  and not every story in the Bible may apply to our lives, but you may forget that not all is in the same position as us, ever think of that?

Yeah and in following the many examples in the Bible we shall buy and sell children slaves, kill whole nations including children, slaughter people for deciding to worship God in a certain way, nearly kill our on sons and offer up our virgin daughters to an angry horny mob.....all from the book of stories.

I agree the Bible is filled with much wisdom and if we follow that wisdom, the same wisdom you find in other religions we'd have a better world, but it falls very short of doing that as it is also filled with the writings of man and the culture of the times, it is not 100% the everlasting word of GOD

[24KT]

any of them would have been flattered to know David chopped the tips of 200 Philistine wieners, not a fun task I'm sure, for a woman.

Oh I don't know... sometimes when I read Get Big, I sometimes think hey, ...that might be fun.     carry on

[overcome]

Sorry for your friends................. ...it doesn't change the fact that there is no justification for killing children regardless of what they do.  THAT'S WHAT CIVILIZED COUNTRIES AND CIVILIZED PEOPLE DO WITH CHILDREN WHO DO BAD THINGS.....like the United States of America and most of civilized world.  (not garden variety religious idiots who think killing children is ok as long it's justified as gods orders)

Yeah and in following the many examples in the Bible we shall buy and sell children slaves, kill whole nations including children, slaughter people for deciding to worship God in a certain way, nearly kill our on sons and offer up our virgin daughters to an angry horny mob.....all from the book of stories.

I agree the Bible is filled with much wisdom and if we follow that wisdom, the same wisdom you find in other religions we'd have a better world, but it falls very short of doing that as it is also filled with the writings of man and the culture of the times, it is not 100% the everlasting word of GOD

you don't get it much do you, the nations God ordered to be killed were wicked.  worse then the taliban training camps we see over here.  when the men are killed the women will raise the children to be like there fathers, when both parents are killed the children will carry on there parents hatred.  we weren't there, so we will never know, but trust me man, i have seen some evil children and women, and i don't see half the shit my buddies do.

secondly i can respect that with most religions if people actually did what was written then the world would be a far better place.  but considering God, Allah, and Jawey(sp?) are all based on the same being i would think they would be close.  we just believe in different prophets for the most part, and a few different rules.  and from what you are mostly attacking us on is the old testament, this is what the Jews fallow, there is a new testament where a few things changed that we Christians fallow.  and you right there is allot of things in the old testament rules that i just don't get.  i mean i wear mixed clothes all the time and i don't think i am going to hell for it.  but remember the Bible is Gods word interpreted by man, I'm sure there might be a few things that got mixed over the years.  and where is it that God tells us to give virgins to an angry horney mob??

but i have another question for you, why do you feel such a need to attack the people who believe what you do not?  I'm not an extremist that plans on killing you for having sex before being married, or cheating on your taxes, or being gay.  i just wanna show people my beliefs, if you don't want to listen then thats you, if you feel called to it then feel free to join, church is on sunday we would love to have you.

[MCWAY]

you don't get it much do you, the nations God ordered to be killed were wicked.  worse then the taliban training camps we see over here.  when the men are killed the women will raise the children to be like there fathers, when both parents are killed the children will carry on there parents hatred.  we weren't there, so we will never know, but trust me man, i have seen some evil children and women, and i don't see half the shit my buddies do.

That's part of the whole "outrage" routine, done by folks who don't dig Scripture. They act as if the Amalekites, Hittites, and the other "-ites" were a bunch of boy scouts, singing "Kum-ba-Yah" and holding hands, when mean old Jehovah and His Israelites just hit the scene and start whacking people, simply because they can.

secondly i can respect that with most religions if people actually did what was written then the world would be a far better place.  but considering God, Allah, and Jawey(sp?) are all based on the same being i would think they would be close.  we just believe in different prophets for the most part, and a few different rules.  and from what you are mostly attacking us on is the old testament, this is what the Jews fallow, there is a new testament where a few things changed that we Christians fallow.  and you right there is allot of things in the old testament rules that i just don't get.  i mean i wear mixed clothes all the time and i don't think i am going to hell for it.  but remember the Bible is Gods word interpreted by man, I'm sure there might be a few things that got mixed over the years.  and where is it that God tells us to give virgins to an angry horney mob??

but i have another question for you, why do you feel such a need to attack the people who believe what you do not?  I'm not an extremist that plans on killing you for having sex before being married, or cheating on your taxes, or being gay.  i just wanna show people my beliefs, if you don't want to listen then thats you, if you feel called to it then feel free to join, church is on sunday we would love to have you.

The "horny mob" take refers to the Sodom and Gommorah account, involving Lot. Lot has two visitors, sent from the Lord to warn him of the cities' impending destruction and that he and his family need to pack up and leave. Some of S&G's gay contigent see the visitors and demand that Lot bring them out, so they can do the Brokeback with them. In cowardly haste, Lot offers his daughters to the mob, rather than have them mess with God's messengers. Suffice it to say, this was certainly NOT an order from the Almighty.

As for the clothes-of-mixed-fabric thing, that may be more of a cultural item, than anything else. Take the redeemer clause, regarding marriage. If you're single and your married brother dies without having any kids, you wouldn't be expected to marry your brother's widow and produce a child, who would be credited as that of your brother. Violations of such laws are hardly have such dire consequences, such as a trip to the lake of fire.

[OzmO]

you don't get it much do you, the nations God ordered to be killed were wicked.  worse then the taliban training camps we see over here.  when the men are killed the women will raise the children to be like there fathers, when both parents are killed the children will carry on there parents hatred.  we weren't there, so we will never know, but trust me man, i have seen some evil children and women, and i don't see half the shit my buddies do.

So children are now guilty before they become guilty and therefore it's justified they should die? 

Yeah that makes alot of sense.....

Is that how the nazis justified there actions when they smashed a baby's head against a brick wall?   What do you think those men in the Bible did?  Give them an overdose of sleeping pills? 

secondly i can respect that with most religions if people actually did what was written then the world would be a far better place.  but considering God, Allah, and Jawey(sp?) are all based on the same being i would think they would be close.  we just believe in different prophets for the most part, and a few different rules.  and from what you are mostly attacking us on is the old testament, this is what the Jews fallow, there is a new testament where a few things changed that we Christians fallow.  and you right there is allot of things in the old testament rules that i just don't get.  i mean i wear mixed clothes all the time and i don't think i am going to hell for it.  but remember the Bible is Gods word interpreted by man, I'm sure there might be a few things that got mixed over the years.  and where is it that God tells us to give virgins to an angry horney mob??

You haven't read the OT much have you?  Yet you profess to be a Christian and the Bible is the 100% Word of God?  This is how you "FALLOW" (sp=follow  ) your religion?  The Bible is the word of man which is a book that's believed by some to "every word of GOD" and if GOD ordered the killing of children i have no doubt it's instead the word of man who has justified it's atrocious actions using GOD.  If you want to know about the daughters read Sodom and Lot.

but i have another question for you, why do you feel such a need to attack the people who believe what you do not?  I'm not an extremist that plans on killing you for having sex before being married, or cheating on your taxes, or being gay.  i just wanna show people my beliefs, if you don't want to listen then thats you, if you feel called to it then feel free to join, church is on sunday we would love to have you.

I'm not attacking anything, just showing you the perverseness of thinking there is any justification on killing children and you in your "great wisdom"  just liken that justification to killing children in Taliban training camps.

Do you feel it's ok to kill children if they were being raised in a Taliban training camp? So it's justified to kill a 2 year old girl?

Because if you do, i am attacking you now.  you are pathetic and EVIL.  You are a candidate for a nazi youth camp and you need serious counseling.

Are you gonna be the one who shoots a 2 year old girl and watches her die and her mother scream in agony....will you feel you are doing the work of GOD?  Pathetic.

If you really don't think that you might want to re-think your argument for killing children although there is none.

[OzmO]

That's part of the whole "outrage" routine, done by folks who don't dig Scripture. They act as if the Amalekites, Hittites, and the other "-ites" were a bunch of boy scouts, singing "Kum-ba-Yah" and holding hands, when mean old Jehovah and His Israelites just hit the scene and start whacking people, simply because they can.

We aren't talking the EVIL that existed in in those civilizations.  We are talking about children.  Not teenagers or children that have reached the age of accountability.  We are talking about 2 years girls, 5 year old boys who undoubtedly were slaughtered under the sword int he name of GOD and people today that still think "GOD" ordered that.  That's no GOD but instead man using GOD as justification for his actions.

The "horny mob" take refers to the Sodom and Gommorah account, involving Lot. Lot has two visitors, sent from the Lord to warn him of the cities' impending destruction and that he and his family need to pack up and leave. Some of S&G's gay contigent see the visitors and demand that Lot bring them out, so they can do the Brokeback with them. In cowardly haste, Lot offers his daughters to the mob, rather than have them mess with God's messengers. Suffice it to say, this was certainly NOT an order from the Almighty.

It's not.  But the messengers, writers or GOD do nothing to address this action which indirectly devalues and trivializes the sanctity of a daughter and her virginity.....and this is the word of GOD. 

As for the clothes-of-mixed-fabric thing, that may be more of a cultural item, than anything else. Take the redeemer clause, regarding marriage. If you're single and your married brother dies without having any kids, you wouldn't be expected to marry your brother's widow and produce a child, who would be credited as that of your brother. Violations of such laws are hardly have such dire consequences, such as a trip to the lake of fire.

Cultural?  It's pretty direct in the OT when it's said for women never to dress as men.  But most Christians just wave that off as being directed to jews at the time.

[WOOO]

Which is closest to your attitude toward the bible?

(by Charles C. Ryrie)

Rationalism:  a. Extreme form denies the possibility of any supernatural revelation.  b. Moderate form admits possibility of divine revelation, but human mind is final judge of revelation. 

Romanism:  Bible is the product of the church; therefore, the Bible is not the sole or final authority.

Mysticism:  Experience is authoritative along w/the Bible.

Neo-orthodoxy:  The Bible is a fallible witness to the revelation of God in the Word, Christ.

Cults:  The Bible and the writings of the particular cult's leader are equally authoritative.

Orthodoxy:  The Bible is the ground of authority.

the old test is the written version of the oral history of the jews...


the new test is a cult's brainwashing material

[overcome]

no i think we should kill all the adults and older children then leave the 2 year olds

there is arguements for evething, you have fun finding all of them.

[Hustle Man]

O R T H O D O X  Presbyterian

[OzmO]

no i think we should kill all the adults and older children then leave the 2 year olds

there is arguements for evething, you have fun finding all of them.

Yeah, and you have fun hiding you heart and good sense in the cloak of ignorant righteousness.

Is that the best you can do "overcome"?   Just past killing innocent children off like that?  Another example of a low level blunt instrument that is manipulated by those in power.   Not to worry, fanatics are always needed whether they are blind Christian Warriors or Islamic suicide bombers.   They are both the same.   There's a place for you in this world and you are fitting right into your chosen spot.

[columbusdude82]

I can't believe people in 2007 are still bickering and arguing over the tiresome squabbles of Stone Age middle-eastern tribes, and still claiming "God" on this side or that...

[overcome]

tell me what your plan would be for that situation then? if there soldiers are dead but the women and older children pick up arms against you and all that is left is children to young to take care of themselves? 

and I'm not trying to say this is what God wants or saying its justified by the bible, I'm telling you a real life situation.  since your so righteous why don't you tell me what should be done.

[OzmO]

tell me what your plan would be for that situation then? if there soldiers are dead but the women and older children pick up arms against you and all that is left is children to young to take care of themselves? 

and I'm not trying to say this is what God wants or saying its justified by the bible, I'm telling you a real life situation.  since your so righteous why don't you tell me what should be done.

OMG.   How dense, barbaric and insensitive to children does the call of the righteous make us?

Have you ever heard of the concept of innocent until guilty?

You don't kill someone because of what they might do a month from now or 10 years from now. 

You don't kill children becuase:   

all that is left is children to young to take care of themselves?

Should we have killed every Nazi born child after WW2?  Every Japanese born child?   

what's next, overcome?   do we kill all the inner city children in America becuase they will all end up drug dealers and thugs?

If you can't see the EVIL in your thinking there isn't much use in explaining much of anything to you like orphanages, aid programs etc...

since your so righteous why don't you tell me what should be done.

there's no point in telling a person like you what should be done if you don't even get the simple concept of WHAT SHOULDN'T BE DONE TO BEGIN WITH


THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR KILLING CHILDREN

[loco]

OMG.   How dense, barbaric and insensitive to children does the call of the righteous make us?

Have you ever heard of the concept of innocent until guilty?

You don't kill someone because of what they might do a month from now or 10 years from now. 

You don't kill children becuase:   

Should we have killed every Nazi born child after WW2?  Every Japanese born child?   

what's next, overcome?   do we kill all the inner city children in America becuase they will all end up drug dealers and thugs?

If you can't see the EVIL in your thinking there isn't much use in explaining much of anything to you like orphanages, aid programs etc...

there's no point in telling a person like you what should be done if you don't even get the simple concept of WHAT SHOULDN'T BE DONE TO BEGIN WITH


THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR KILLING CHILDREN

OzmO,
overcome said

and I'm not trying to say this is what God wants or saying its justified by the bible, I'm telling you a real life situation.  since your so righteous why don't you tell me what should be done.

OzmO,
There was no Red Cross, no United Nations, no social workers, no orphanages.

Really, what would have been the righteous thing to do in your opinion, to leave the infants behind to die of thirst, hunger, or to be eaten by wild beasts?  What would you have done?  Just curious.

[OzmO]

OzmO,
overcome said
OzmO,
There was no Red Cross, no United Nations, no social workers, no orphanages.

Really, what would have been the righteous thing to do in your opinion, to leave the infants behind to die of thirst, hunger, or to be eaten by wild beasts?  What would you have done?  Just curious.

So because you or overcome can't see what to do you justify killing children?

OMG....

[columbusdude82]

You Bible-thumping Nutjobs are proving Voltaire correct:

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.

The absurdity is to think that the creator of the universe of hundreds of billions of billions of stars and planets chose one small tribe (out of many) of one species (out of tens of millions) of living things on one tiny speck of a planet orbiting a little star, and gave them the right to commit murder and genocide against other tribes...

The atrocity is not just those events (if they ever really occurred), but also the cold-hearted callousness with which people many centuries later justify the slaughter of children...

[loco]

So because you or overcome can't see what to do you justify killing children?

OMG....

In other words...you don't know.  It's okay.  Many people jump at the opportunity to attack the Bible without knowing all the facts and without giving it much thought.  

So you do justify leaving infants behind to die slow, painful deaths.

OzmO,
I suggest you read the whole story, which covers several books of the Bible.  For hundreds of years, generations of the Amalekites attacked, raided and killed Israel unprovoked.  Israel did not fight back at first.  These wicked people were also oppressive to other nations around them.  

During all those years, the women and infants had the choice and the opportunity to leave their people and join the Israelites.  By God's law, the Israelites had to accept them and treat them well, even though those same wicked people had just spent years killing Israelites.  So, the blood of those infants is not on God or on the Israelites' heads.  The blood of those infants is on their own parents' head.

God did not say to Israel to exterminate everyone who attacked them.  God did not tell Israel to kill the children of all enemies of Israel.  God commanded Israel to kill specific, wicked nations, by name.  So God does not justify the killing of children.  Again, God gave the parents the opportunity to have their women and children join the Israelites and be spared, but they fought to their deaths and decided to take their children down with them.

By the way.  About that lady in the US who had her feeding tube removed because her husband wished it and because a judge ordered it, and the lady died.  Not only did she die, but she died a slow, painful death.  You justify that?

So, is her blood on the judge's head, on the doctor's/nurse's head, or on her husband's head?

[columbusdude82]

loco, an autopsy proved that the woman in question (Terry Schiavo) had long been brain dead, so she couldn't have felt any pain.

[OzmO]

In other words...you don't know.  It's okay.  Many people jump at the opportunity to attack the Bible without knowing all the facts and without giving it much thought. 

So you do justify leaving infants behind to die slow, painful deaths.

OzmO,
I suggest you read the whole story, which covers several books of the Bible.  For hundreds of years, generations of the Amalekites attacked, raided and killed Israel unprovoked.  Israel did not fight back at first.  These wicked people were also oppressive to other nations around them. 

During all those years, the women and infants had the choice and the opportunity to leave their people and join the Israelites.  By God's law, the Israelites had to accept them and treat them well, even though those same wicked people had just spent years killing Israelites.  So, the blood of those infants is not on God or on the Israelites' heads.  The blood of those infants is on their own parents' head.

God did not say to Israel to exterminate everyone who attacked them.  God did not tell Israel to kill the children of all enemies of Israel.  God commanded Israel to kill specific, wicked nations, by name.  So God does not justify the killing of children.  Again, God gave the parents the opportunity to have their women and children join the Israelites and be spared, but they fought to their deaths and decided to take their children down with them.

By the way.  About that lady in the US who had her feeding tube removed because her husband wished it and a judged ordered, the lady die.  No only did she died, but shed died a slow, painful death.  You justify that?

So, is her blood on the judge's head, on the doctor's/nurse's head, or on her husband's head?

In other words i do know.  

I'm just trying to see if you and overcome can see past yourselves.

If you don;t think there is an answer to deal with the children then you aren't opening your eyes or once again acting dumb for the sake of a debate.

And Again................you can try and justify killing children ALL you want but in the end:

THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR KILLING CHILDREN

AND ANYONE THAT THINKS THERE IS, IS EVIL.

[loco]

In other words i do know.  

I'm just trying to see if you and overcome can see past yourselves.

If you don;t think there is an answer to deal with the children then you aren't opening your eyes or once again acting dumb for the sake of a debate.

And Again................you can try and justify killing children ALL you want but in the end:

THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR KILLING CHILDREN

AND ANYONE THAT THINKS THERE IS, IS EVIL.

In other words...you don't know.  It's okay.  Many people jump at the opportunity to attack the Bible without knowing all the facts and without giving it much thought. 

So you do justify leaving infants behind to die slow, painful deaths.

OzmO,
I suggest you read the whole story, which covers several books of the Bible.  For hundreds of years, generations of the Amalekites attacked, raided and killed Israel unprovoked.  Israel did not fight back at first.  These wicked people were also oppressive to other nations around them. 

During all those years, the women and infants had the choice and the opportunity to leave their people and join the Israelites.  By God's law, the Israelites had to accept them and treat them well, even though those same wicked people had just spent years killing Israelites.  So, the blood of those infants is not on God or on the Israelites' heads.  The blood of those infants is on their own parents' head.

God did not say to Israel to exterminate everyone who attacked them.  God did not tell Israel to kill the children of all enemies of Israel.  God commanded Israel to kill specific, wicked nations, by name.  So God does not justify the killing of children.  Again, God gave the parents the opportunity to have their women and children join the Israelites and be spared, but they fought to their deaths and decided to take their children down with them.

By the way.  About that lady in the US who had her feeding tube removed because her husband wished it and because a judge ordered it, and the lady died.  Not only did she die, but she died a slow, painful death.  You justify that?

So, is her blood on the judge's head, on the doctor's/nurse's head, or on her husband's head?

[loco]

loco, an autopsy proved that the woman in question (Terry Schiavo) had long been brain dead, so she couldn't have felt any pain.

So they did not know until they had already killed her?

[OzmO]

In other words...you don't know.  It's okay.  Many people jump at the opportunity to attack the Bible without knowing all the facts and without giving it much thought. 

So you do justify leaving infants behind to die slow, painful deaths.

OzmO,
I suggest you read the whole story, which covers several books of the Bible.  For hundreds of years, generations of the Amalekites attacked, raided and killed Israel unprovoked.  Israel did not fight back at first.  These wicked people were also oppressive to other nations around them. 

During all those years, the women and infants had the choice and the opportunity to leave their people and join the Israelites.  By God's law, the Israelites had to accept them and treat them well, even though those same wicked people had just spent years killing Israelites.  So, the blood of those infants is not on God or on the Israelites' heads.  The blood of those infants is on their own parents' head.

God did not say to Israel to exterminate everyone who attacked them.  God did not tell Israel to kill the children of all enemies of Israel.  God commanded Israel to kill specific, wicked nations, by name.  So God does not justify the killing of children.  Again, God gave the parents the opportunity to have their women and children join the Israelites and be spared, but they fought to their deaths and decided to take their children down with them.

By the way.  About that lady in the US who had her feeding tube removed because her husband wished it and because a judge ordered it, and the lady died.  Not only did she die, but she died a slow, painful death.  You justify that?

So, is her blood on the judge's head, on the doctor's/nurse's head, or on her husband's head?

Oh brother......


In Biblical times, you have the children adopted into existing families.  You murdered their parents and now you have a responsibility to take of the children.  But you'd rather they die wouldn't you?

[OzmO]

And if God was so Omnipresent he'd just make them vanish but instead he tells a person like you to stab a 3 year boy with a spear.

 


The Bible is the full of crap.

[loco]

Oh brother......


In Biblical times, you have the children adopted into existing families.  You murdered their parents and now you have a responsibility to take of the children.  But you'd rather they die wouldn't you?

So you are saying that the righteous thing to do was for the Israelites to adopt all the children 2 and under?

[loco]

THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR KILLING CHILDREN

What about mercy killing--refugees that kill their own small children to keep them from being tortured, enslaved, mutilated, and/or then killed horribly by their tormentors?
 
What about the labor room, where either the mother or the baby may live, but not both?