What's your annual salary?

[scubaculture]

Im on 94K a year now

[Lena]

sweet 

Is that a date?

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Lena J

[chaos]

Is that a date?

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Lena J

with all those red X's?

[garraeth]

I don't know about that.  I mean yes,  that should be the case,  but I have been in the IT field for 13 years and even though I have a shitload of real world experience these dumbass CEO's and upper management types always want the person with the masters with very little experience.  These people do not know jack shit about I.T. but dictate the qualifications.  Very sore subject with my ass.  If any of these "CEO's" around here want to explain, then I am all ears.  I KNOW 3/4 of the board here are CEO's right?

I'm not a CEO, but am a CTO (in 2 companies now  )...and you've been interviewing w/ the wrong people if you've been talking to CEO's. That's strike 1 against you Mr. Smarty Pants.

And, proofs in the pudding. What have you done that's amazing/unique in your field? I may need a kickass IT guy sometime in the next couple months. But you can say all the shit you want -- until you show something you've done that's going to blow me away, I agree with the dickhead "CEO"'s...get a little piece of paper saying you're qualified or shut your trap.

Oh, and don't try bullshitting with me with techno speak. Toxy tried that all the time -- what a looser 

[mahg]

Im on 94K a year now

How old are you?

That is quite the salary... congrats.

[chaos]

I'm not a CEO, but am a CTO (in 2 companies now  )...and you've been interviewing w/ the wrong people if you've been talking to CEO's. That's strike 1 against you Mr. Smarty Pants.

And, proofs in the pudding. What have you done that's amazing/unique in your field? I may need a kickass IT guy sometime in the next couple months. But you can say all the shit you want -- until you show something you've done that's going to blow me away, I agree with the dickhead "CEO"'s...get a little piece of paper saying you're qualified or shut your trap.

Oh, and don't try bullshitting with me with techno speak. Toxy tried that all the time -- what a looser 

hey garraeth, what the fuck is a CTO? And also why doesn't real world experience count anymore?

[garraeth]

Salary means n.o.t.h.i.n.g. On the extreme, Steve Jobs makes a whopping $1/year. On the other extreme, me and my friends who own very successful companies (#1's in their fields) all make around $50k/year (because they aren't stupid with their money, and only take what they need to live)...but have OWNERSHIP. So when they sell out, they make millions.

Lemmings have salaries. Sheep are proud of their salaries.

[Livewire]

Steve Jobs makes a whopping $1/year.

He's still overpaid.  Macs suck.

[garraeth]

hey garraeth, what the fuck is a CTO? And also why doesn't real world experience count anymore?

Chief Technical Officer.

And, no...real world experience, imo, counts MORE than the stupid piece of paper. Hell, one of the best programmers I know only went to ITTech for a couple years before dropping out. But, fucken hell, he programmes some of the most amazing shit. And, when I interviewed him, he SHOWED me some of this awesome shit he had made...so I ignored his shit paper qualifications in favor of his awesome real-world.

But what I'm saying w/ windsor88 is that 99% of the time, guys who are pissed at college educated people, and spout about how good real-world experience is, blah, blah, blah...don't have SHIT to back up their claim. Ok, so they are better than a guy who graduated from MIT in IT? Fucken-a, before you go off saying that bullshit you had better fucken have the most awesome thing you've made to show me to prove it.

...if not, you're a liar and dillusional.

[tleilaxutank]

He's still overpaid.  Macs suck.

Spoken like someone out of the loop...


Salary is useless without knowing place of residence...

[garraeth]

He's still overpaid.  Macs suck.

But you have to admit -- he's a genius. Him and Bill Gates. Like them or not...

[Livewire]

Spoken like someone out of the loop...


Salary is useless without knowing place of residence...

Steve Jobs lives in a personal hell.  The guilt of the terrible things he's done to personal computing eats at him.

[tleilaxutank]

Steve Jobs lives in a personal hell.  The guilt of the terrible things he's done to personal computing eats at him.

Please go on...I'm interested

[XFACTOR]

I'm not a CEO, but am a CTO (in 2 companies now  )...and you've been interviewing w/ the wrong people if you've been talking to CEO's. That's strike 1 against you Mr. Smarty Pants.

And, proofs in the pudding. What have you done that's amazing/unique in your field? I may need a kickass IT guy sometime in the next couple months. But you can say all the shit you want -- until you show something you've done that's going to blow me away, I agree with the dickhead "CEO"'s...get a little piece of paper saying you're qualified or shut your trap.

Oh, and don't try bullshitting with me with techno speak. Toxy tried that all the time -- what a looser 

It is complete bullshit that people would disregard or underestimate the power of education.  Especially if it's undergrad studies.  Getting my MBA opened up so many avenues in my life.  I've been on both sides as I got my MBA later(27) in life.  The MBA opened up doors due to the fact that it taught me so much from understanding detailed financials to making critical decisions that impact your company positively....... I'm making a bold statement here and stating that an MBA pretty much guarantees you at least 120k to start.

[chaos]

Chief Technical Officer.

And, no...real world experience, imo, counts MORE than the stupid piece of paper. Hell, one of the best programmers I know only went to ITTech for a couple years before dropping out. But, fucken hell, he programmes some of the most amazing shit. And, when I interviewed him, he SHOWED me some of this awesome shit he had made...so I ignored his shit paper qualifications in favor of his awesome real-world.

But what I'm saying w/ windsor88 is that 99% of the time, guys who are pissed at college educated people, and spout about how good real-world experience is, blah, blah, blah...don't have SHIT to back up their claim. Ok, so they are better than a guy who graduated from MIT in IT? Fucken-a, before you go off saying that bullshit you had better fucken have the most awesome thing you've made to show me to prove it.

...if not, you're a liar and dillusional.

so if windsor88 showed up on your doorstep with no degree, but loads of real world experience, would you at least give him the benefit of the doubt and interview him?

and when are you getting your ass back in the gym?

[XFACTOR]

But you have to admit -- he's a genius. Him and Bill Gates. Like them or not...

Speaking of which:  Guys you have to check this out.  The new Surface by Microsoft.  Absolutley brilliant!!!

http://www.microsoft.com/surface/

[garraeth]

It is complete bullshit that people would disregard or underestimate the power of education.  Especially if it's undergrad studies.  Getting my MBA opened up so many avenues in my life.  I've been on both sides as I got my MBA later(27) in life.  The MBA opened up doors due to the fact that it taught me so much from understanding detailed financials to making critical decisions that impact your company positively....... I'm making a bold statement here and stating that an MBA pretty much guarantees you at least 120k to start.

Course. But there are a lot of dingdongs with MBA's.

And, on the other hand, there are a lot of dingdongs w/ no education.

Which is why...yet again...I said: proof's in the pudding.

Geeze, for educated people, it's hard to get a point across w/o you all picking on one aspect and missing the idea as a whole...

[garraeth]

so if windsor88 showed up on your doorstep with no degree, but loads of real world experience, would you at least give him the benefit of the doubt and interview him?

and when are you getting your ass back in the gym?

Interview, sure...take 15 min to hear him out.

Hire? Depends on what he can show me...I interviewed that guy who was an ITT drop-out didn't I? And was totally blown away...

heh, I've been there for a while -- check the training log. Just did legs today...

[XFACTOR]

Course. But there are a lot of dingdongs with MBA's.

And, on the other hand, there are a lot of dingdongs w/ no education.

Which is why...yet again...I said: proof's in the pudding.

Geeze, for educated people, it's hard to get a point across w/o you all picking on one aspect and missing the idea as a whole...

Hmm not picking on one aspect.  Just speaking from experience.  I've been in the businees workforce, mainly software, without a degree, with a bachelors, and with an MBA.  Having an MBA gives anybody a distinct advantage. The practical knowledge you get from and MBA can't be argued.  

[XFACTOR]

Interview, sure...take 15 min to hear him out.

Hire? Depends on what he can show me...I interviewed that guy who was an ITT drop-out didn't I? And was totally blown away...

heh, I've been there for a while -- check the training log. Just did legs today...

Since your doing interviews what sort of established process do you use?  Have you read Top Grading, if not read it.  It will give you great insight and make that process for hiring that much easier and effective.

[benz]

It is complete bullshit that people would disregard or underestimate the power of education.  Especially if it's undergrad studies.  Getting my MBA opened up so many avenues in my life.  I've been on both sides as I got my MBA later(27) in life.  The MBA opened up doors due to the fact that it taught me so much from understanding detailed financials to making critical decisions that impact your company positively....... I'm making a bold statement here and stating that an MBA pretty much guarantees you at least 120k to start.

When i was at uni, i always thought i should get an MBA (I studied business & economy) but then i realized it was useless since the market is so full of them that it's kinda hard to try to get a good job, when you have like 100 peeps with the same goal.

So what i did? I took a plane to china for 1 month, back when i was 25, and visited many factories and then i realized i was late on the train, so i got on and now im 28, buying every month many thousands dollars from china, and making more than what a good mba would have gave me.

Its not about how many degrees you get but the eye of the tiger in business

[windsor88]

Chief Technical Officer.

And, no...real world experience, imo, counts MORE than the stupid piece of paper. Hell, one of the best programmers I know only went to ITTech for a couple years before dropping out. But, fucken hell, he programmes some of the most amazing shit. And, when I interviewed him, he SHOWED me some of this awesome shit he had made...so I ignored his shit paper qualifications in favor of his awesome real-world.

But what I'm saying w/ windsor88 is that 99% of the time, guys who are pissed at college educated people, and spout about how good real-world experience is, blah, blah, blah...don't have SHIT to back up their claim. Ok, so they are better than a guy who graduated from MIT in IT? Fucken-a, before you go off saying that bullshit you had better fucken have the most awesome thing you've made to show me to prove it.

...if not, you're a liar and dillusional.

Well to actually have an opportunity to interview for a higher position, at least for the company I work for,  you have to have a college degree in I.T. related curriculum  and 5 years experience for just a entry level helpdesk position.  This was changed after I came aboard.  So at this point I am stuck.  In your example the programmer could in fact show you what they have done.  In my case as a Server administrator what the fuck am I gonna show?  And yes I do have paper.  All of these useless certifications that was, at the time, the only thing that mattered in I.T.  No I never interviewed with a CEO or CTO but that is only because the I.T. managers hands are tied.  They are instructed only to interview people with the qualifications set by the high up non-technical people.  By the way...CTO doesn't mean jack shit.  I worked for Harrah's and the CTO was the Finance Director.  The dude was clueless when it came to infrastructure issues, etc. The only thing he chimed in about was the fucking budget.

[Special Ed]

One Million Dollars Muthafucka!

[chaos]

One Million Dollars Muthafucka!

that guy looks like a gay Pat Sajak

[XFACTOR]

When i was at uni, i always thought i should get an MBA (I studied business & economy) but then i realized it was useless since the market is so full of them that it's kinda hard to try to get a good job, when you have like 100 peeps with the same goal.

So what i did? I took a plane to china for 1 month, back when i was 25, and visited many factories and then i realized i was late on the train, so i got on and now im 28, buying every month many thousands dollars from china, and making more than what a good mba would have gave me.

Its not about how many degrees you get but the eye of the tiger in business

Yeah the eye of the tiger only gets you so far.  You need understand business to run one or even be effective for that matter.  So your buying many thousands of what?  And how are you importing?  Chinese are very poor manufaturers.  I visited a tier one auto supply factory in Ningbo China, wow they are so behind.  Lot's of growth though.