Bulldog, I know you are a smart, knowledgable guy, but you have a habit of building explanations around your forgone conclusions.
*Currently, Semmy Schilt, is the champion of the K-1.
He's a Full-Contact Karate practicioner.
*Andy Hug was a recent K-1 champion(he died), with victories over Muay-Thai/kickboxing practicioners Aerts, and Hoost.
He's a Full-Contact Karate practicioner, and he is also one of the smallest K-1 heavyweight champions in history.
*Former UFC champion Bas Rutten is a karateka cross trained in many martial arts.
He didn't dabble in karate...he's 6th degree by his own admission.
You don't dabble in karate and earn 6th degree.
It takes years of brutal conditioning, mastery of katas, and actual fighting:
Q: How many different styles of fighting have you trained in? Do you have any ranks? Who do you consider your teacher?
Bas: Tae Kwon Do 2nd Degree, Kyokushin Karate 2nd Degree, Thai boxing yellow slip (just kidding), Kyokushin All round fighting 5th Degree (I received this after I defeated Takahashi. I didn’t do any test for this).
I thought a lot myself, striking wise I would say that I learned the most at Mean Ho gym in Breda Holland. Cor Hemmers is the teacher there, he is very good. I started learning the basics in Grappling with Chris Dolman in Holland.
*Former UFC Lightheavyweight Champion Chuck Liddel is also a blackbelt in karate.
A former UFC Light Heavyweight champion, Liddell has an extensive background in kickboxing and collegiate wrestling. He is associated with the Pit team and recently earned a purple belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu. However, he is generally regarded as a stand-up fighter, relying primarily on his background in Kempo karate and Koei-Kan karate.
*Former UFC Welterweight Champion Georges Saint Pierre is a Full Contact Karate Fighter:
Early career
St. Pierre had dreamed of becoming a UFC champion since watching Royce Gracie fight in 1993 at UFC 1.[8] GSP had his first amateur bout when he was only 16 years old. He states, "When I won my first amateur (MMA) fight, I was 16 years old and I beat a guy that was 25. I was only a Kyokushin karate fighter and the guy I fought was a boxer. At the time my ground skills were very poor, I didn’t know nothing on the ground.” St. Pierre won his fight by knockout, going low with several leg kicks and then going high with a kick to the head. To this day many fans and much of the media has him pegged as a wrestler, or a Brazilian jiu-jitsu fighter, but he still considers himself a karate stylist at heart.[9]
The First UFCs were held by the Gracie family to sell BJJ as a fighting style capable of allowing a smaller man defeat a larger opponent.
What a great selling point.
The fact is, the most impressive wins over large opponents came from the Karate fighters.
But the Gracies were in control of the tournament, and the Gracies get the glory. That's business for you.
I think they should have put Gracie in there with Yarborough.
*200 pound Kempo practicioner Keith Hackney beat a 6'8" 600 pound Yarborough.
*5'10" Tae Kwon Do fighter Cal Worsham beat a 6'8" 300 pound Paul Varelans.
*215 pound Savate and Karate practicioner Gerard Gordeau beat a 415 pound Tila Tuli.
Karate is stronger today than ever.
Every fighter cross traines today,
but to insinuate that fighters like Bas Rutten only use Muay-Thai and abandoned their years of Karate training is insulting to the intelligence of the fighters.
The inside fighting Bas used in his Pancrase days, and the way he uses his hands to strike comes from years karate training.
In Karate they teach you to block and stike the body from the inside, Muay-Thai emphasis the clinch. Bas made good use of both techniques.
GSP has finished opponents with spinning backkicks, and they don't even use that in traditional Muay-Thai.
He and Liddell also make use of deep karate stances.
You can go to Japan or Holland, and you'll find out how seriously they take karate.
Perhaps that's why Americans don't produce many highly succesful K-1 fighters.
In Japan and Holland they train in Karate, Muay-Thai, and kickboxing.
In America they train in boxing and learn how to throw a roundhouse kick.
The origins of kickboxing and K-1 are in Karate.
Kickboxing, as a style, is karate without the kata(which ARE important to fighting), and with boxing hand techniques.
The reason is, gloves eliminate the effectiveness of inside blocking/fighting. It's adaptation to the ring.
On December 20, 1959, a Muay Thai match among Thai fighters was held at Tokyo Asakusa town hall in Japan. Tatsuo Yamada who had established "Nihon Kempo Karate-do" was interested in Muay Thai because he wanted to perform Karate matches in Full-contact rules since practitioners are not allowed to hit each other directly in Karate matches. At this time, it was unimaginable to hit each other in Karate matches in Japan. He had already announced his planning which was named "The draft principles of project of establishment of a new sport and its industrialization" in November, 1959, and he put forward a new sport "Karate-boxing" which was a tentative name then. It is still unknown that Thai fighters were invited by Yamada, but it is clear that Yamada was the only karateka who was really interested in Muay Thai. Yamada invited a Thai fighter who was the champion of Muay Thai formerly as his son Kan Yamada's sparring partner, and started studying Muay Thai. At this time, the Thai fighter was taken by Osamu Noguchi who was a promoter of boxing and was also interested in Muay Thai. For example, the Thai fighter's photo was on the magazine "The Primer of Nihon Kempo Karate-do, the first number" which was published by Yamada.
There were "Karate vs. Muay Thai fights" February 12, 1963. The 3 karate fighters from Oyama dojo (Kyokushin later) went to the Lumpinee Boxing Stadium in Thailand, and fought against 3 Muay Thai fighters. The 3 karate fighters' names are Tadashi Nakamura, Kenji Kurosaki and Akio Fujihira (as known as Noboru Osawa). Japan won by 2-1 then. Noguchi and Kenji Kurosaki (Kyokushin karate instructor) studied Muay thai and developed a combined martial art which Noguchi named kick boxing. However, throwing and butting were allowed in the beginning to distinguish from Muay Thai style. This was repealed later. The Kickboxing Association the first kickboxing sanctioning body was founded by Osamu Noguchi in 1966 soon after that. Then the first kickboxing event was held in Osaka, April 11, 1966. Tatsu Yamada died in 1967, but his dojo changed its name to Suginami Gym, and kept sending kickboxers off to support kickboxing.
The advantage Muay-Thai has over Karate is they teach the most effective techniques used in all standup and focus on them entirely.
Thus, it is possible to be effective with Muay-Thai early. However Karate teaches all the strikes used in Muay-Thai, and more, thus it is a more comprehensive system. It does take longer to master. Some kicks and strikes that aren't effective in sport fighting may be useful in certain real-world situations.
Kata is very important, not only as an endurance exercise, but as a means to practice technique.
The same way you type on Getbig everyday and develop muscle memory, you automatically strike the correct key without even thinking about it.
This is the purpose of kata. The instructors can make sure you are shifting the hips correctly when you punch etc.
It's doesn't take precedent over sparring and contact training except in American Tae Kwon Do McDojos.
All standup fighters, Karateka, MT, kickboxers...
make use of the same strikes in sport fighting-roundhouse, leg strikes, front kicks, etc.
The reason some standup styles like TKD have less success is more to do with the fact that they don't get their
trainees used to actually being hurt. It's a conditioning issue. This has to do with American schools being wary of getting
sued by soccor moms that just want a workout. They don't train the same way in Korea.
