Who wants some red nose PITS ?

[emn1964]

well I dont even know what Im doing in this thread since according to "eminem1964" I dont even own a pit

oh and congrats on chucka being dog of the month sin----well deserved, great looking boy for 8 months 

never said you don't own a pit.  just that if you are going to brag about your dog at least get it right, that's all.  don't get your panties in a bunch.  BTW--good looking dog you posted.

[Nordic Beast]

never said you don't own a pit.  just that if you are going to brag about your dog at least get it right, that's all.  don't get your panties in a bunch.  BTW--good looking dog you posted.

haha no you said a dog I "supposedly" own----------and I wasnt bragging about my dog just making a point that he isnt a pit/mastiff mix thats all and to bust someone's balls on saying blue instead of purple is childish (and so is being a grammer nazi)--you obviously knew what i meant so I got my point across

other than that I never get my panties in a bunch and if I did I wouldnt hang out on the V and Y like I do----------

thanks for the compliment -----hes a smart and gentle little monster and if you like him check out my thread on the Y about him

[temper35]

haha no you said a dog I "supposedly" own----------and I wasnt bragging about my dog just making a point that he isnt a pit/mastiff mix thats all and to bust someone's balls on saying blue instead of purple is childish (and so is being a grammer nazi)--you obviously knew what i meant so I got my point across

other than that I never get my panties in a bunch and if I did I wouldnt hang out on the V and Y like I do----------

thanks for the compliment -----hes a smart and gentle little monster and if you like him check out my thread on the Y about him

I see where emn1964 is coming from, because it is a detail you shouldn't miss.

Really is a great looking dog, btw, whether or not you know anything about the UKC   I personally am not a fan of pitbulls at all because I do not meet many people who 1) Know anything about dogs and behavior, and 2) Have the actual dog trained and socialized.

Either way, great looking pitbull.

[temper35]

some bloodlines take a little longer to "pop" in terms of muscle---------the part of my boy's bloodline (Chaos blood) is notorius for taking up to 2 years for some of the males really fill out.

Most dogs are 90% done growing by 12-16 months.  Dogs put on 5-10lbs tops over the rest of their lives of actual working weight. This is depending on the breed of course.  If a Chihuahua is 6lbs at 12 months it isn't going to wind up weighing 16lbs, lol.

[Nordic Beast]

I see where emn1964 is coming from, because it is a detail you shouldn't miss.

Really is a great looking dog, btw, whether or not you know anything about the UKC   I personally am not a fan of pitbulls at all because I do not meet many people who 1) Know anything about dogs and behavior, and 2) Have the actual dog trained and socialized.

Either way, great looking pitbull.

I really hate people who ruin the name of pitbulls for people like you----------my dogs are really well socialized and trained very well, all of my dogs love kids and get along with dogs of all size and shape.

I was never really into pure breeds before thus my mistake of saying blue instead of purple---first dog UKC registered----all my other pits are rescues

my bully pit is really great in terms of tempermant and is a pure breed blue--------Ive really started to get into the pit scene after getting him, I belong to a bunch of message boards that are focused on bully pits where most of the people have kennels and its a great way to network to stud your dog out or get puppies or just meet people whose dogs are related to yours

thanks for the kind words about my boy----he is a pit you would really like if you met him

[temper35]

I really hate people who ruin the name of pitbulls for people like you----------my dogs are really well socialized and trained very well, all of my dogs love kids and get along with dogs of all size and shape.

I was never really into pure breeds before thus my mistake of saying blue instead of purple---first dog UKC registered----all my other pits are rescues

my bully pit is really great in terms of tempermant and is a pure breed blue--------Ive really started to get into the pit scene after getting him, I belong to a bunch of message boards that are focused on bully pits where most of the people have kennels and its a great way to network to stud your dog out or get puppies or just meet people whose dogs are related to yours

thanks for the kind words about my boy----he is a pit you would really like if you met him

I think even as a pitbull owner you can agree that most owners of pitbulls know nothing about their dogs, play a ton of dominance games with them(tug of war), encourage aggression, have no boundaries, know nothing about posture and how to read their dog, etc etc etc.

It is sad really.  I would like to get a pitbull one day and make it a therapy dog but I love my rottweiler too much and will get another rottie when he passes away many years from now.

[Nordic Beast]

I think even as a pitbull owner you can agree that most owners of pitbulls know nothing about their dogs, play a ton of dominance games with them(tug of war), encourage aggression, have no boundaries, know nothing about posture and how to read their dog, etc etc etc.

It is sad really.  I would like to get a pitbull one day and make it a therapy dog but I love my rottweiler too much and will get another rottie when he passes away many years from now.

i agree with you------but a lot of my friends own pits since theyve met mine and seen how good they are with their children, so I get to see a lot of really balanced and well behaved dogs

Ive had pitbulls ever since I was a baby and it was the greatest joy growing up with my family dog who was a female pit---she was gentle, protective (saved my mom, brother and I, when him and I were toddlers, from a burglar) and the most loving dog ever. I really want my kids to experience that.

I do a lot of training with my puppy and he is only 5 months old but walks without a leash and listens to heel, sit, stay and come even if there are distractions-------he is also great on a leash.  I also have a lot of cousins from age 4-16yrs old so I make sure he is around them alot to socialize him with children and all my friends have dogs so he meets and hangs out with a myriad of dogs all the time.

any bully breed you really have to be knowledgeable about socializing and dominance issues, it sounds like you know a lot and it would be good for the pitbull breed for someone like you to have one.  I have influenced a lot of people to get and also realize that pits are great family dogs.

oh yeah and 10 page meltdown

[temper35]

thats cool dude, what I was saying is I like the bulldogs that are about 60lbs (male) and 45-50lbs (female) max.   The big ones are cool to look at, but I like the more traditional look.

I'm just not a huge fan of the 100lb pit bull...(not saying all the bulldogs that are 100lbs are mix-breed), I should of choose my words better.

I tell you what, 5lbs or 500000lbs, in my mind it doesnt' get much better than the APBT....I love 'em all!!

There are some great looking dogs on this site also...very cool

I think what some people were saying is there is no 100lb APBT.  They were cross bred with SOMETHING.

[Nordic Beast]

I think what some people were saying is there is no 100lb APBT.  They were cross bred with SOMETHING.

I wont argue with you that a 100-150lb pitbull is not  the breed standard-----my only arguement was that for my dog whose father is 115lbs, I know for sure is pure pit and has not had any other breed mixed in----I have teh UKC pedigree, a 7 generation poster that shows all the ancestors.  I have also seen pic pedigree of my dog going back 5 generations and its clear that tehy were breeding the biggest pits together to slowly get a bigger pit.

even if someone wanted to name big pits, "bully pitbulls" it doesnt bother me, but I know for a fact mine is pure pitbull, people just breed for size and tempermant instead of the breed standard.

I see nothing wrong with that as long as people also breed pitbulls breed standard----american bulldogs have two differnt versions, the Johnson and the I really cant remember the southern maybe.-------------
yes teh big pits would be worthless as fighting dogs which is what the breed standard is oriented around but I dont think thats a bad thing--------you wont ever see people fighting bully pits and I think anything that takes Fighting focus off of pitbulls is inherently a positive thing.

do you guys know anyone very closely that breeds bully pits or are you just speculating that they are breeding them with mastiffs because they are big

I can tell you anyone who is discovered to do anything like that in the bully pit breeding game would be ostracised and riduclued.  that is a severe insult to a person's dogs, Ive seen people want to kill each other of accusations of that (no joke, i belong to many bully pit message boards where everyone knows everyone's real life name and kennel) and seen people present pedigrees to disprove that.

oh yeah and meltdown

[temper35]

I never said they are breeding them with mastiffs.  But the actual "American Pitbull Terrier" by definition of the breed is no where near 100+lbs.  Not even close, that is insane.  Those pitbull farms like Muglestons, if those dogs are in fact over 100lbs they are doing SOMETHING to them.  That is not normal.

The above picture is an APBT.  The bottom pic is not.  If you want a big dog, get a Mastiff.

[emn1964]

Breeding pits for the enormous size is ruining the breed.  Sure, they may make great pets and be obedient and have a great temperment, but they aren't pits in the traditional sense of the word.  Everyone involved to any extent with the breed will tell you that.  There are breed standards for several reasons.  Not the least of which is to cull the breed of bad genetic traits such as ortho problems in these 100pound pit/mastiff crosses.  Sorry to tell you Nord, but any dog over 100 pounds is not pure pit.  No way, no how.  I really don't care how many generations back your dog's pedigree goes.  There's one in the wood pile as they say and it's a mastiff.  someone lied to you pal.

[temper35]

Breeding pits for the enormous size is ruining the breed.  Sure, they may make great pets and be obedient and have a great temperment, but they aren't pits in the traditional sense of the word.  Everyone involved to any extent with the breed will tell you that.  There are breed standards for several reasons.  Not the least of which is to cull the breed of bad genetic traits such as ortho problems in these 100pound pit/mastiff crosses.  Sorry to tell you Nord, but any dog over 100 pounds is not pure pit.  No way, no how.  I really don't care how many generations back your dog's pedigree goes.  There's one in the wood pile as they say and it's a mastiff.  someone lied to you pal.

They are cross-bred with SOMETHING.  Mastiff would likely give a much different response, but that is no pure pitbull.

Nordics dog, I dunno.  It isn't like Muglestons type pitbull, so who knows.

I am no expert on genetics/breeding, I know behavior and thats about it lol.

[BigNBloated]

Its funny seeing his pit at this age being the same age as mine and looks like he's 4 times the size of my pit.  There is a specific mix breed referred to as bandogges that are pitbull and mastif mix, just an FYI.  Pretty similar in looks to nordics.

 

[Nordic Beast]

I understand your arguements but I dont think its ruining hte breed----becuase their will always be the breed standard.  I dont think having a sub-division of pitbull is a bad thing.  I dont think all pits should be this big---Im not argueing to change the breed.

I have 2 other pits which are rescues also and breed standard and Ive owned breed standard pits all my life.  I can tell you that my bully pit acts and behaves just like a pitbull.

I really dont want to argue about this but I just want to say that I love my bully pit and I dont think that they are a detriment to the breed, anything that makes the breed more popular and more socially understood and accepted is a good thing.  

I dont think we should be putting down any pitbulls-----too many people do that.  Big or small pitbulls are the greatest dogs in the world, most loyal and best family dog.

[BigNBloated]

I think its a cool breed bullybreed either way. Just depends on what you want. Seems like there is much debating of the obvious.  Nordic has already said many times he gets it.

[BigNBloated]

lol at Brandy sitting in the car seat. Dogs pwn.

[Nordic Beast]

I think its a cool breed bullybreed either way. Just depends on what you want. Seems like there is much debating of the obvious.  Nordic has already said many times he gets it.

cool----guys I appreciate that you understand what Im trying to say and I respect your viewpoint about how a pitbull should be breed standard.

I have actually owned an american bulldog------great breed, i had one though that was given to my girl from a shitty breeder who I found out later was continueing to breed this line even though they had severe aggresion problems.  I had a male who was the most protective dog I have ever had----real one person dog, I had him trained well, even took him to a police dog trainer.  I always wondered why he was the way he was since I had pits all my life and never had an aggresive dog but I found out later that the dogs mom had killed dogs and his entire bloodline was real aggresive but the guy continued to breed them since they were real diesal.

It really broke my heart he was so dog and people aggresive-----I loved him since he was so bonded to me but it was challenging to say the least.  He got along with my other pits but that was since he knew them from a puppy, any other dog he tried to kill.

For instance, even though my brother was at my house every day and the dog loved him, if my dog was in my car he wouldnt him in, snarled and growled at anybody except me.  No one could go near me when I was sleeping except my girl.  It was just his nature----I tried everything.

That was really my only experience with an american bulldog (so my viewpoint is skewed) except my girls parents owned a female who was the opposite and the sweetest dog ever.

[temper35]

cool----guys I appreciate that you understand what Im trying to say and I respect your viewpoint about how a pitbull should be breed standard.

I have actually owned an american bulldog------great breed, i had one though that was given to my girl from a shitty breeder who I found out later was continueing to breed this line even though they had severe aggresion problems.  I had a male who was the most protective dog I have ever had----real one person dog, I had him trained well, even took him to a police dog trainer.  I always wondered why he was the way he was since I had pits all my life and never had an aggresive dog but I found out later that the dogs mom had killed dogs and his entire bloodline was real aggresive but the guy continued to breed them since they were real diesal.

It really broke my heart he was so dog and people aggresive-----I loved him since he was so bonded to me but it was challenging to say the least.  He got along with my other pits but that was since he knew them from a puppy, any other dog he tried to kill.

For instance, even though my brother was at my house every day and the dog loved him, if my dog was in my car he wouldnt him in, snarled and growled at anybody except me.  No one could go near me when I was sleeping except my girl.  It was just his nature----I tried everything.

That was really my only experience with an american bulldog (so my viewpoint is skewed) except my girls parents owned a female who was the opposite and the sweetest dog ever.

If a dog aggressive bitch gives birth, it does NOT mean the pups are born aggressive.  RIDICULOUS.

"For instance, even though my brother was at my house every day and the dog loved him, if my dog was in my car he wouldnt him in, snarled and growled at anybody except me.  No one could go near me when I was sleeping except my girl.  It was just his nature----I tried everything."

That is because you weren't in charge of that dog and he felt the need to protect you.  You were his possession.  It is called dominance my friend.

I had a male who was the most protective dog I have ever had----real one person dog, I had him trained well, even took him to a police dog trainer. 

Police trainers don't know shit and most police dogs are NOT lovey dovey happy dogs because they dont have to be.  They are treated like shit.  Being a "one person dog" does not mean it will be protective.  Whether the dog is a one person dog or a family dog, it is supposed to feel PROTECTED BY YOU.  Not the other way around.  Alpha dogs don't get protected by their pack.  Alpha dogs protect their pack.

[temper35]

I dont think having a sub-division of pitbull is a bad thing. 

Don't you think perhaps the AKC should recognize the APBT before people start adding "sub-divisions"?  The breed has a bad name as it is.  You don't need 100lb pitbulls instead of the 60lb pitbulls that are causing all the problems.

[BigNBloated]

Temper I dont understand how you can argue that a dog with a mother or father with an animal or people aggressive temperment wouldnt at least be prone to that type of behavior.  Doesnt seem rediculous to me.

[temper35]

Temper I dont understand how you can argue that a dog with a mother or father with an animal or people aggressive temperment wouldnt at least be prone to that type of behavior.  Doesnt seem rediculous to me.

How can I argue it?  Its 100% false.  Aggression is learned through socialization.  Dogs used in the pit aren't born dog aggressive, they are taught to be aggressive towards dogs during the phase that they are SUPPOSED to be taught to be friendly.

If aggression is genetic then why do people have calm and obedient pitbulls?  To say it comes from birth would mean the aggression is irreversible and unavoidable. 

There is a difference between the overall temperament of a dog and stuff like aggression.  My dogs father was very aloof, so Plato is very aloof.  That is personality.  Aggression is not personality.  Dogs aren't born aggressive to every dog they see like dogs in the pit.  If they were, puppies would be attacking their litter.  This isn't the case because aggression is a learned behavior.

[Nordic Beast]

ok if aggression is not carried on through genes then how do you explain the breeding of fighting dogs vs say bichon frises------they both started out as the same thing long ago

many traits are genetic and tempermant and aggression are defintly one of those and to argue against that is ridicuolous and one of the most ignorant things I have ever heard.

and I didnt train the dog to attack people and I only took him to the police trainer for a little while so your arguement against that is void.  I have had dogs all my life and have never had one be aggresive except for that dog so its not a coincidence that it behaved like that and had a family history of aggresive behavoir.

it sounds like you are an expert in your head though and dont want to hear anything else so I won't argue with you about it.

[temper35]

Dude, no offense, but you are fucking clueless. 

1)  You didn't even know the certifcation of your own dog.  That is flat out pathetic.

2)  Do you even know what "aggression" is ?  You obviously do not.  The reason pitbulls are bred is because of their gameness, not because of AGGRESSION.  Do you know what "gameness" is?  You obviously do not.  Gameness is willingness to fight and reluctance to submit.  Pitbulls are not bred because of how aggressive they are as adults.  Shit, adult dogs in the pit who are TOO aggressive is frowned upon, especially towards humans who are labeled "man biters".  An overly aggressive dog is NOTHING positive in dogfighting. 


"and I didnt train the dog to attack people and I only took him to the police trainer for a little while so your arguement against that is void."

I never said you did, and no one said your dog was trained to attack people.  Police dogs are trained in personal protection.  Everything is done via command, they don't want the dogs thinking for themselves or making their own decisions.  Alot of the times there are scenarios where cops are attacked in the line of duty with the dog in a car/on a leash, and unless the dog is given the command he will not defend the police officer.  Why?  Like I said because they treat them like shit...  Having a police dog schooled in personal protection is much different than having your own personal protection dog who WOULD defend you without command because its pack drive is harnessed throughout its training.  Alot of time with police dogs the officer who is with him is NOT the one who trained him, therefore THERE IS NO BOND.

You went to a police trainer...WOW.  Is this supposed to impress me?  You know what will impress me?  Get your dog that you have right now his CGC by 9 months and then his CD by a year and a half.  Real great job that police trainer did.  He was so smart he can't even explain to you what the problem was and why so now you cloud this forum with your pointless banter.

"I have had dogs all my life and have never had one be aggresive except for that dog so its not a coincidence that it behaved like that and had a family history of aggresive behavoir."

By this logic you are blaming the breed and the dog.  By this logic pitbulls should be aggressive and it isn't the owners fault.  Isn't it pitbull owners that like to claim "punish the deed, not the breed" ?  You are flat out defying that saying.  You are blaming lineage and breed characteristics, and not someones own stupidity and ignorance in training their dog.

"it sounds like you are an expert in your head though and dont want to hear anything else so I won't argue with you about it."

I am no expert, but some of my closest friends are certified experts who have been training dogs in personal protection and titling schutzhund dogs for over 20 years.

Hows this "Nordic Beast"

I will bet you FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS you can take a male and female who fight in the pit, breed them through a rape stand if the female is unwilling to take the male, and those puppies that come out I can raise them(one of them is really the easiest, I do have a life) to be as good with people and animals alike as fucking Petey from the Little Rascals.

[temper35]

I'm not even close to an expert on breeding or geneitcs, but I would say that if both parents are naturally agressive, then the child is also likely to be agressive (talking about bulldogs here)? 

I know nurture is also a huge part, is it safe to say that the APBT is 9 times out of 10 going to be naturally dog agressive unless he/she is properly socialized to NOT be agressive?  As you all know gameness is also another trait that has been bred into the bulldog, if both parents are game; there is a good chance the pups will be game as well?

I'd say you're looking at a mixture of how much is inhereted through breeding and how much is learned through socialization.  Like I said I may be 100% wrong....one thing I know for sure is that most of the time I don't know shit!

It is not safe to say that at all.  That is absurd, jesus christ.  Do you not understand I could take any puppy of any breed at 8 weeks old and make it devastatingly aggressive to humans and dogs alike by the time it is 12 months.

APBT's are dominant dogs, and that is where the problems come from.  They are also extremely energetic dog and because of their history a surplus of energy + no boundaries = aggression.  This is how they release their pent up energy, just as I dunno, a herding dog might herd your kids in the yard.

Gameness is GENETIC.  Puppies used for fighting are killed once they realize they aren't game as they would like because they are BORN with this trait, and if it is strong enough, it is harnessed.  Dogs who are not willing to fight are KILLED.

Aggression is learned.  "Punish the deed, not the breed."  The mother of all pitbull sayings.
deed = teaching your dog to be aggressive.  a learned behavior.
breed = the dog is inherently aggressive as the public believes, and this behavior cannot be changed.

What side of the fence are you and Nordic on?  You are both pitbull owners.

[Nordic Beast]

Ok now because I dont agree with you I obviously dont know anything about pitbulls and support dogfighting---ala the "which side are you on" statement

you are having a temper tantrum man

tempermant is trait passed on----thats why breeders wont breed a dog with a bad one so that its not carried on----and its easy to make a dog aggresive =just abuse it===that doesnt prove anything

your other arguements aren't even addressing that----

are you a breeder??? I guarantee you arent.