A quick question concerning early morn cardio...

[WhiteHulk4]

5 g. of Glutamine will not burn fat, Hulk.

I never said it would, I said that it would not hinder fat loss, as Candidizzle said it would.

Good post though, I agree with everything you stated.

[candidizzle]

One more thing about the Glutamine 1st thing in the morning...

I don't care WHAT IT IS, if you take in 5 grams of ANYTHING!  I don't care if it's pure sugar, it's not going to have much of an effect on the fat burning process from your morning cardio.  It's just not enough to make much of a difference.

And another thing, that's probably already been touched on, however, in a more complicated manner than necessary.

There's two schools of thought for doing cardio 1st thing in the morning:

1. On an empty stomach, your body will be forced to pull energy from your fat stores, because you haven't supplied it with any energy (food) for the day.

2. To start your day in a caloric deficit!

It's the #2 that matters the most.  And 5 grams of an amino acid ain't gonna make a difference...

you are correct in everything you have said here. but if you want to create the biggest fat loss from your efforts in the morning, you would abstain from taking anything except bcaa's, and some non nutritive stimulants.

[candidizzle]

personally i would never do cardio in the morning on a empty stomach. when you wake up in the morining you are already in a catabolic state so why add to that with a catabolic activity like cardio on a empty stomach?  you are trying to burn fat but why do it at the expense of muscle tissue.

i would take 20-30g of fast acting hydrolyzed whey protein along with 5-10g or glutamine, bcaa's and a thermo.

if your only concern is losing fat then on a empty stomach would probably be slightly more effective but the increased muscle catabolism that goes along with that outweighs the benefits.

anytime you are on a diet you are in a catabolic state. you have to be catabolic in order to burn body fat...  being "catabolic" doesnt mean that you are eating muscle tissue, it just means that your breaking down SOMETHING in your own body for energy, whether that be stored adipose tissue(faT), glycogen stores, or muscle..it does not matter, it all "catabolism". the key is to be in a catabolic state where your body is breaking down ONLY glycogen and body fat...primarily body fat though. and the way you do that is by doing LOW INTENSITY exercise(which is the type of exercise that your body uses body fat to fuel) with back up amino acids in your blood stream just in case your glycogen stores run out and your body signals that cataolic state to convert some aminos for glucose needs... thus, your muscle tissue is spared.

[WhiteHulk4]

so in actuality, what your doing by taking glutamine is really just taking glucose.

Dude, seriously, this statement is ridiculous.  You're saying that Glutamine is the same as taking glucose?  Glutamine has a long list of benefits, while glucose, well, doesn't.  Where, how, and why you're trying to make this case, I have no idea!  It makes no sense.

Glutamine, a non-essential amino acid, the most abundant amino acid in skeletal muscle, is the same thing as glucose???

[candidizzle]

Dude, seriously, this statement is ridiculous.  You're saying that Glutamine is the same as taking glucose?  Glutamine has a long list of benefits, while glucose, well, doesn't.  Where, how, and why you're trying to make this case, I have no idea!  It makes no sense.

Glutamine, a non-essential amino acid, the most abundant amino acid in skeletal muscle, is the same thing as glucose???

glutamine is sort of like creatine though. once your body has it, it recycles and re-synthesizes it from other sources. dietary supplementation of glutamine does not effect free floating circulation levels of glutamine unless there is a deficiency present..in which case the liver will be signaled to digest and release soem glutaminee into the blood stream.  other wise, there is an abundance of glutamine in your body already(like you said..its the MOST abundant amino acid in your body), and thus your liver doesnt digets it as an aminno acid, it just converts it to glucose and send it into the blood sstream.   given, its a very small amount of glucose...because when amino acids go through the process of gluconeogensis they only yield half as many grams of glucose as what they were in amino acid form. so taking 10 grams of glutamine would yield an increase in blood glucose levels by 5 grams..   which is only 20 calories. but that is 20 calories that were NOT burned of fat, and 20 calories worth of insulin release, and 20 calories worth of hormonal suppression of growth hormone and glucagon.

trust in me..i know of what i speak.

[WhiteHulk4]

glutamine is sort of like creatine though. once your body has it, it recycles and re-synthesizes it from other sources. dietary supplementation of glutamine does not effect free floating circulation levels of glutamine unless there is a deficiency present..in which case the liver will be signaled to digest and release soem glutaminee into the blood stream.  other wise, there is an abundance of glutamine in your body already(like you said..its the MOST abundant amino acid in your body), and thus your liver doesnt digets it as an aminno acid, it just converts it to glucose and send it into the blood sstream.   given, its a very small amount of glucose...because when amino acids go through the process of gluconeogensis they only yield half as many grams of glucose as what they were in amino acid form. so taking 10 grams of glutamine would yield an increase in blood glucose levels by 5 grams..   which is only 20 calories. but that is 20 calories that were NOT burned of fat, and 20 calories worth of insulin release, and 20 calories worth of hormonal suppression of growth hormone and glucagon.

trust in me..i know of what i speak.

Glutamine taken on an empty stomach has been shown to INCREASE GROWTH HORMONE RELEASE!!!!  NOT SUPPRESS IT!!! 

Trust you?  You sound more like an idiot with every single post!  Know what a capital letter is?

[candidizzle]

the release of glucose and insulin into the blood stream almost completely shuts down release of growth hormone.

not the release of glutamine into the blood stream.

if glutamine WAS released into the blood stream, then it WOULD increase gh levels...but that would be because you were in an amino acid-deficient state..and the release of that glutamine into the blood stream would be completing your pool of amino acids, meaning that you would then be capable of synthesizing protein...  something you are not capable of doing without glutamine... and gh will be released in order to signal for the ribosomes to go to work and start repairing muscle tissue..

but a bodybuilder will hardly ever be in a state of glutamine deficiency.

[WhiteHulk4]

Candidizzle, really, I know that you've read quite a few books recently, and your head is spinning with all of the information you took in.  But please consider this post that you started only 2 months ago:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=175480.0

You were begging me for advice...  Now you've read a few books and 2 months later, you're claiming to be some expert on all this?

The problem with reading so many books, all with drastically different points of view, in a short amount of time is: It clouds your brain with overlapping, conflicting information.  Because of that, nothing you say, can or should be trusted.

Sorry.

[The Master]

Candidizzle, really, I know that you've read quite a few books recently, and your head is spinning with all of the information you took in.  But please consider this post that you started only 2 months ago:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=175480.0

You were begging me for advice...  Now you've read a few books and 2 months later, you're claiming to be some expert on all this?

The problem with reading so many books, all with drastically different points of view, in a short amount of time is: It clouds your brain with overlapping, conflicting information.  Because of that, nothing you say, can or should be trusted.

Sorry.

Do not forget Candidizzles poor cognitive skills. The books can be great, but he is not.

[candidizzle]

hmmmm


okay. im really not trying to win a debate with you or anything. but i guess you have taken offense to be on the losing side of this argument..and now you cant just say "okay, your right..thanks for the info"..


whatever dude. you were helpful to me when i needed it, and for that i am grateful..but your acting like a douchebag now.

[The Master]

hmmmm


okay. im really not trying to win a debate with you or anything. but i guess you have taken offense to be on the losing side of this argument..and now you cant just say "okay, your right..thanks for the info"..


whatever dude. you were helpful to me when i needed it, and for that i am grateful..but your acting like a douchebag now.

I am just pointing out the facts. You screwed up and lost the debate big time in several ways. Then you ran away when you were held accountable for your writings.

And for gods sake my little friend, Im just bustin' yer balls. Im Debussey for christ sakes. You fucked up, relax about it and have a beer. this is the internet

[candidizzle]

I am just pointing out the facts. You screwed up and lost the debate big time in several ways. Then you ran away when you were held accountable for your writings.

And for gods sake my little friend, Im just bustin' yer balls. Im Debussey for christ sakes. You fucked up, relax about it and have a beer. this is the internet

i wasnt referring to you, i was talking to white hulk. when did you ever help me?

[The Master]

i wasnt referring to you, i was talking to white hulk. when did you ever help me?

When Debussey/DF made fun of you for being fat and ugly.

And when we had that stupid PM discussions about politics, where you wrote about your political concept "freedom".

I helped you find Gary Busey as well.

You owe me. 

[candidizzle]

i do remember that. it was quite some time ago..and my political ideas have changed a bit since then...

[The Master]

i do remember that. it was quite some time ago..and my political ideas have changed a bit since then...

What do you believe now?

[busyB]

I never said it would, I said that it would not hinder fat loss, as Candidizzle said it would.

Good post though, I agree with everything you stated.

Sorry man, my head hurts when I read his posts...might have been in a confused tail spin when I read yours??

This thread actually is starting to hurt my head...

DF, Candi -- we need a getbig boxing match to settle this. Go ahead and set that up and record for you-tube, ok!? You can also go ahead and take your polital views to another board please, my head already hurts from you two! Thanks.

[candidizzle]

What do you believe now?

the role of government is to provide the things for society which society cannot provide itself on itsown....the job of the government is to help people do the things that they cannot do on their own.. the purpouse of the government is to organize the things that HAVE to be organized, and to provide the thing which MUST be provided.   nothing more, nothing less.

[The Master]

Sorry man, my head hurts when I read his posts...might have been in a confused tail spin when I read yours??

This thread actually is starting to hurt my head...

DF, Candi -- we need a getbig boxing match to settle this. Go ahead and set that up and record for you-tube, ok!? You can also go ahead and take your polital views to another board please, my head already hurts from you two! Thanks.

I am 40 pounds heavy. Candidizzle would kill me. But I know Gary Busey. So he's got no chance.

[jmt1]

anytime you are on a diet you are in a catabolic state. you have to be catabolic in order to burn body fat...  being "catabolic" doesnt mean that you are eating muscle tissue, it just means that your breaking down SOMETHING in your own body for energy, whether that be stored adipose tissue(faT), glycogen stores, or muscle..it does not matter, it all "catabolism". the key is to be in a catabolic state where your body is breaking down ONLY glycogen and body fat...primarily body fat though. and the way you do that is by doing LOW INTENSITY exercise(which is the type of exercise that your body uses body fat to fuel) with back up amino acids in your blood stream just in case your glycogen stores run out and your body signals that cataolic state to convert some aminos for glucose needs... thus, your muscle tissue is spared.

i am talking about muscle catabolism.  you do not have to be in a catabolic state in order to burn bodyfat. saying that would mean that you can't build muscle while losing fat which is not true.

cardio in the morning on a empty stomach is simply not a good idea because of muscle catabolism as well as increased cortisol production.  now if your interested in fat loss at all costs then that might be the best way to go. most people do not want that and the best way to offset this while having a minimal effect on lyposis would be to take in a small amount of fast acting hydrolyzed whey along with bcaa"s, some glutamine and a thermo.

[candidizzle]

i am talking about muscle catabolism.  you do not have to be in a catabolic state in order to burn bodyfat. saying that would mean that you can't build muscle while losing fat which is not true.

cardio in the morning on a empty stomach is simply not a good idea because of muscle catabolism as well as increased cortisol production.  now if your interested in fat loss at all costs then that might be the best way to go. most people do not want that and the best way to offset this while having a minimal effect on lyposis would be to take in a small amount of fast acting hydrolyzed whey along with bcaa"s, some glutamine and a thermo.

while it does go against what everyone will tell you..including almost every professional bodybuilding trainer and bodybuilder...
i WOULD agree with you. you CAN build muscle and burn fat over the course of a given period of time. being in a catabolic state  doesnt have anything to do with protein synthesis and the repairing of muscle tissues. you can be simultaneously drawing on fat stores and have the same hormone which is signaling for that to happen, growth hormon) be signaling for the ribosomes to repair broken down muscle tissue. in fact...this always happens.

as long as blood glucose levels are low, and there is both quantity and quality of supply in the pool of amino acids, then building muscle+burning fat is a reality.

BUT that state of fat burning+muscle building is referred to as a state of "catabolism", because your body is literally eating itself for energy...and this self destrutive behavior, even though at the same time its self repairing, is categorized as a catabolic state.

arguing that doing cardio in a catabolic state is bad is ignorant. if you want to burn fat you have to be catabolic. the key is to be catabolic, but not be breaking down proteins along with the fat...the key to doing this is to float along on glycogen stores..and to have an an ample supply of amino acids ready to be converted to glucose whenever those glycogen stores are empty.

this seems really repetitive..but the point is that cardio in the morning can be done without sacrificng any muscle tissue, and without inhibiting fat usage to any degree, by taking a small amount of bcaa's.

 
 

[Emmortal]

Too much microanalyzation leads to missing the forest through the trees, Candidizzle.   I don't have a problem with you personally, but seriously.....you need to take a step back and really evaluate what you say.

[candidizzle]

Too much microanalyzation leads to missing the forest through the trees, Candidizzle.   I don't have a problem with you personally, but seriously.....you need to take a step back and really evaluate what you say.

penny wise, pound foolish; right? no.. i see the big picture as well as the small details.   

good lookin' out, though.

[busyB]

Too much microanalyzation leads to missing the forest through the trees, Candidizzle.   I don't have a problem with you personally, but seriously.....you need to take a step back and really evaluate what you say.

           

[YoungBlood]

post weight training cardio and early morning cardio are both effective for the same reason....depleted glycogen stores, zero free floating insulin, increased glucogan and growth hormone levels...increase cicular amp, and increases levels of lipogensis already occuring in the body.

Can you tell me the difference between the two?

Youngblood...why?  Do you think it's better for losing weight?   

For me, I get up at 2:45am and drink a protein shake. Within 2-3 hours after that I have another meal and repeat again. I'm in the gym at some point after work, and workout. Then I'll jump on my choice of cardio for the day and once done with the required time, I run off and have about 5 chicken breasts. The meal I think it just a means to an end. I DO NOT believe that it has to be a whey/dextrose shake, or anything of the sort. BUT, I do think you should have SOMETHING, and I prefer to have all protein and then add in carbs and/or fat in the meal AFTER my PW-meal.
Why does it work, in my opinion? Because you've had a few meals through the day, and it allows your body to "get started." Protein synthesis and all that stuff. Then, during the workout you deplete yourself, and you've already gone into a state that you're burning fat. So once you jump onto the cardio portion, you're ready to go.
I can't really explain it in detail-especially using scientific jargon, but I think it's due to eating a few times through the day that allows you to hold onto more muscle while doing cardio.
Again, not the best explanation, but I feel there is sort of a time lapse between empty stomach cardio done upon waking up, and doing it post workout later in the day.
Same theory, but how it's carried out is much different. ( for the brain fart on explaining it better for you).

[jmt1]

while it does go against what everyone will tell you..including almost every professional bodybuilding trainer and bodybuilder...
i WOULD agree with you. you CAN build muscle and burn fat over the course of a given period of time. being in a catabolic state  doesnt have anything to do with protein synthesis and the repairing of muscle tissues. you can be simultaneously drawing on fat stores and have the same hormone which is signaling for that to happen, growth hormon) be signaling for the ribosomes to repair broken down muscle tissue. in fact...this always happens.

as long as blood glucose levels are low, and there is both quantity and quality of supply in the pool of amino acids, then building muscle+burning fat is a reality.

BUT that state of fat burning+muscle building is referred to as a state of "catabolism", because your body is literally eating itself for energy...and this self destrutive behavior, even though at the same time its self repairing, is categorized as a catabolic state.

arguing that doing cardio in a catabolic state is bad is ignorant. if you want to burn fat you have to be catabolic. the key is to be catabolic, but not be breaking down proteins along with the fat...the key to doing this is to float along on glycogen stores..and to have an an ample supply of amino acids ready to be converted to glucose whenever those glycogen stores are empty.

this seems really repetitive..but the point is that cardio in the morning can be done without sacrificng any muscle tissue, and without inhibiting fat usage to any degree, by taking a small amount of bcaa's.

 
 

lol. noone is arguing anything and i have no interest in playing word games. i simply stated that the catabolic state, referring to muscle catabolism, is a problem when doing a.m cardio on a empty stomach. i stated that the best way to combat that would be to take in a small amount of hydrolyzed whey protein along with the bcaa's.

please fill me in on this point though. you said that almost every pro bodybuilder and top trainer will tell you that you can't build muscle while burning fat. have you actually spoke to some pros or trainers first hand or is this something you heard or read somewhere?

.