bicep stats and routine

[ngm21084]

I'll take both sides on this one.. First of all, from your picture, you are in no way an expert on training. Neither am I, so I wont bash you too much on that fact.  I do agree that whoever posted this did not ask to be insulted, or given some roundabout smartass answer about how you're bigger than him, so he should not worry about his arms until he can squat 500 pounds.
Maybe this guy doesnt want to get huge, but wants his arms to look decent, and carry some muscle mass on them.  A simple answer would've sufficed, which is what I think started this entire debate.
I don't necessarily feel like the information is completely innacurrate, but I have certainly on more than one occasion found things that don't correspond to other information I've found on the internet. I think this is largely because different things work for every person.
One person may need a gram of coke to feel fucked up, or 12 beers, while it could kill someone else. It's subjective to the person asking, and the person answering the question. 
I agree to take thing with a grain of salt, no matter where you hear them. If you always did what someone else told you was correct, youd be in a world of trouble. Take whats said to you on this board as advice, and still do your research if you're unsure, that simple.

Furthermore, being big, small, ripped, or bulky doesn't make you a badass... In reality, this semi chubby fellow could probably knock the shit out of half of the people on this board, despite the fact he isn't in good shape. Ken shamrock got knocked out 4 times by a younger guy, with a noticeably worse "physique"

so besides the fact you have had experience with coke in the past what exactly are you contributing to this arguement?

[BEAST 8692]

I'm playing mediator. I don't contribute much to the boards, because unlike the majority of people on earth, I'm a novice, so I keep my mouth shut, unless I'm 100% sure of something. It's annoying/irrritating/frustrating seeing someone ask a decent question, and then having to comb through 500 responses of arguments about why the guy is a f%*^ing idiot for asking a question.
Thats something 7th graders would do.  I was simply stating that I agree with the original post that a lot of the info you find here, probably is bullshit, or at least not COMPLETELY factual/scientifically proven.
Instead of arguing about that nonsense bullcrap, just take what you read as advice, and stop bashing everyone.  It's easy to run your mouth on a message board, but would you do it in person?  It's childish.
We're all here to better ourselves, I would assume. So why not just help, and answer peoples questions, instead of fucking with someone who's trying to help.
Squats and deadlifts are not the answer for someone who is just trying to tone their arms.
Prime example of misinformation. I would be willing to bet my sack that someone my size, with the same diet, working out the same frequency/intensity would not develop more arm muscle, if i was doing an all biceps routine, and they were doing all deadlifts, and squats.

so you're saying you're a novice and don't know much, but then you say squats and deadlifts are not the answer for someone who is just trying to tone their arms (not that the guy was asking about just toning his arms).

this despite the fact that a couple of people who are definitely not novices and actually do know what they're talking about, trying to give some very good advice to a guy seeking to BUILD his arms (not just tone them).

then, novice that you are, you are willing to bet your 'sack' on this assetion.

i can only assume your nutsack is fairly wothless...

[ngm21084]

rw i think you hit it on the head "there's a difference between being a pro, and a know it all"  but i also think that comment made to squat was to encourage someone to work on overall strength at least as much as specific muscular strength and also i think it was said with a bit of sarcasm...but with that being said i agree to a point...i believe to be completely strong and or an effective bber if thast your thing then you need to work everythin equally...

[mesmorph78]

i got my arms from
makin them sore..
started with 12.. 13 inches.. now there a fair size..
so i will keep on makin them sore
because that works for me

[BEAST 8692]

I'm not a professional bodybuilding, but also not completely naive to the way the human body functions.
Squats might trigger your body to burn more calories, and stimulate muscle growth, indirectly, but you certainly
will not ad much size to your biceps without something that hits them in some way.
You disagree?
You could squat all day, and if you dont do some type of lifting that involves your biceps/triceps/forearms/shoulders,
you would potentially not see the type of growth you would if you also trained your arms directly.
Deadlifts have the potential to use bicep muscles, and therefore would provide some type or strain on this muscle group.
However, without additional excercises aime towards both heads of your biceps, you aren't likely to see the same gains
as if you did.
My sack is great, and I happen to love it.
Go to any gym on the planet, and ask any guy with ANY muscle mass on their arms, what they do for biceps. NOT A SINGLE ONE WOULD SAY "deadlifts and squats"... there's a difference between being a pro, and a know it all.. I think these boards have that confused.
I'm only butting into this thread because its riddiculous that the arguement is even being made that a guy who asks for bicep size is told to do fucking squats.

"Deadlifts have the potential to use bicep muscles..."

classic

it never ceases to amaze me how many opinionated stupid people there are on these boards.

[BEAST 8692]

what's incorrect about that statement, "beast"

tell you what "cushing"... go and ask andy bolton or even big mike (who posts on this board now and then) how much 'potential' deadlifts have to 'use bicep muscles'.

both of these men are extremely large and powerful with large and powerful biceps, yet both have tore bicep muscles purely from the strain of heavy deadlifting.

stick to your 10lb concentration curls "cushing"...that'll get you big arms.

[BEAST 8692]

so you're saying that the primary muscle group used in deadlifts is your biceps, and that no other bicep work is needed?
I'll certainly ask both of these gentleman if they refrain from doing any type of bicep only movement.

A guy at my gym right now has a fucked up tricep from doing shrugs... this doesnt mean that he shouldn't bench, or do any tricep movements, just because he does shrugs...

"cushing" is my name, not a proclamation like "beast"....... so it really doesn't work for you in quotes..
I'm sure you're college educated  on anything to do with physical therapy, anatomy, or science, right?

don't be disingenuous now for the sake of winning a message board debate.

when did i say that the primary muscle used in deadlifts was the biceps? or even imply it for that matter??

i was simply countering your ignorant statement about deadlifts merely having the 'potential' to cause bicep involvement.

let me put it this way...

what is the primary muscle used in squats? if you say 'quads' you're wrong. the primary muscle is the spinal erector muscles of the back, followed by hip flexors, followed by glutes, followed by hamstrings.......

on the other hand, what is the primary muscle used in leg extensions? yep, you guessed it, the quads!!!

yet, if you were to choose which exercise would be more effective at adding strength and size to your quads, you would choose squats...i hope, or you're even more ignorant than i thought...ok, well anyone that knows anything at all about building muscle or strength would choose squats.

it's called overload and synergy "cushing". read some books on strength training/bodybuilding from
 the pre-school library and then get back to me.

[BEAST 8692]

"the primary muscle is the spinal erector muscles of the back, followed by hip flexors, followed by glutes, followed by hamstrings......."

Sounds like you're the one who needs to hit preschool books. The primary muscle is not "erector spinae", also, you're showing your vast knowledge by saying "hip flexors". Hip flexor muscles are used for pulling your legs up, ie crunches, hanging leg raises, etc.  So unless you are doing squats upside down, this is not a main muscle group.

Not that I need to go into this any further, since you obviously are misinformed.  Do some research, rather than relying on what you've heard. The primary muscle IS your quads.

Give me a break bro... your upper body is only being used as a stabilizer.. Much the way your biceps and forearms are used to stabilize dumbells during  DB bench press.

Not that this was the original nature of the post.. .You just had to respond to my informed post to show that you were more "knowledgable".

Your statement about the guys pulling their biceps is absolutely retarted also.  More than one powerlifter has strained their ab muscles, sometimes their back doing heavy bench pressing, so are you saying bench presses are sufficient to build back, and abs?

Deadlifts DO NOT CONCENTRATE on your biceps in any way shape of forum.

Humility is a virtue. If you dont know, keep your mouth shut.

 

you have no idea whatsoever about kinesiology. i don't even know where to start, you have got it so wrong.

my issue is not that you are retarded. i have nothing against retarded people.

[BEAST 8692]

hips both extend and flex in squat. without both functions peforming efficiently, you will not squat, therfore they are a prime mover.

the muscles of the lower lumbar ie spinal erectors, in fact, do flex and extend (they are not just there for core stability you tool)and, yes, are most certainly a prime mover in squats.

synergy is a combination of numerous muscle groups to perform the function. if you don't have a clue how many muscles of the body are involved in the squat then i'm sorry but i don't have the time to explain kinesiology 101 to you.

[BEAST 8692]

wow, melt down...

here, i'll try and simplify it:

are the hips a prime mover in the squat?

are the spinal erectors a prime mover in the squat?

i'm sure that the knowledgeable people in this section will agree with me here.

i would suggest that if your quads are the most important prime mover in the squat, you won't squat much weight at all and you won't have functioning knees for very long.

you now agree with me that synergy is an important function in the squat and that the spinal erector muscles of the lower back do actually perform a function other than core stability (although, if you weren't retarded you would have realized this simply by understanding what 'erector' means). thankyou, that was courageous to admit you were wrong on both counts.

you're right though, it is stupid to keep arguing on this section of the board, but your arrogance combined with your lack of knowledge lured me in.

consider your lesson over son.

[Redwingenator]

The exercise's main emphasis is on the quadriceps and the glutes, but it also involves the hamstrings, the calves, and the lower back. The squat is often called "the king of exercises" by those who believe it capable of inducing more and faster muscle growth than any other exercise.[1]
Sidney, D: "Squat today, grow every day: do this king of all exercises and sprout muscle even in your upper body - Body Shop". Men's Fitness, April 2005.

[Redwingenator]

are the hips a prime mover in the squat?

The muscle that causes an action is referred to as the prime mover.  No, the hips are not a prime mover in a squat because the "hips" are not a muscle. 

are the spinal erectors a prime mover in the squat?

No.  Asserting that the spinal erectors are a prime mover in a squat is like saying that your wrist flexors are a prime mover in a bicep curl.

hips both extend and flex in squat.

The hip joints flex and extend in a squat but the hip muscles utilized in a squat are for hip extension only.

 

[BEAST 8692]

contrary to popular opinion, the most important prime mover in the squat is actually the spinal erector muscles.

that is how you get a trainee who can leg press 1000lbs+ but can't squat 250lbs.

you could have the strongest quads in the world but if your spinal erector muscles aren't very strong, you're not going to have an impressive squat.

conversely, if your quads aren't very strong but your erector muscles are super strong you will have a very big squat.

arthur jones (of nautilus fame) once tested fred hatfield (who happened to have been training for the heaviest squat in human history) purely on quad strength (one of his strength testing machines) and found that fred's quads were just not very strong and, in fact, quite a few other tested individuals had stronger quads but nowhere near fred's squat numbers. however, fred's spinal erector muscles and hip flexors were incredibly strong.

[local hero]

anyone that can legpress 1000lbs full rom, can piss 250lbs in the squat, even if its a completely new movement... that is a FACT !!!!!!!.. if you dont think use your lower back when u legpress u want to try leg pressing with a bad back

[Redwingenator]

anyone that can legpress 1000lbs full rom, can piss 250lbs in the squat, even if its a completely new movement... that is a FACT !!!!!!!.. if you dont think use your lower back when u legpress u want to try leg pressing with a bad back

The exercise's main emphasis is on the quadriceps and the glutes, but it also involves the hamstrings, the calves, and the lower back. The squat is often called "the king of exercises" by those who believe it capable of inducing more and faster muscle growth than any other exercise.[1]
Sidney, D: "Squat today, grow every day: do this king of all exercises and sprout muscle even in your upper body - Body Shop". Men's Fitness, April 2005.

Please quote where someone posted that the low back is not used in a squat.

[Redwingenator]

contrary to popular opinion, the most important prime mover in the squat is actually the spinal erector muscles.

I may not agree with the above statement, but if you can provide some information supporting it I'm open to reassessing my opinion.

From Georgia State University: http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwfit/lowerbod.html

Prime Movers/Muscle worked: Quadriceps (the muscles on the front of the upper leg), Hamstrings ( the muscles on the back of the upper leg), Gluteals, Hip Flexors, and Calf muscles.

From http://exercise.about.com/b/2006/05/03/squats-squats-and-more-squats.htm

The prime mover is the gluteus maximus, but the quads, hamstrings and calves are also involved as synergists and stabilizers as well, so you get a lot of bang for your buck.

From http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:qT-xdVkEdpIJ:www.onsperformance.com/SSC/w-thesquat.pdf+prime+mover+squat&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=15&gl=us

The prime movers of sprinting
and jumping are the knee and hip extensor muscles, which are the prime movers
involved in squatting

Barbell Full Squat
From

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.php?MainMuscle=Quadriceps

Exercise Data
Main Muscle Worked: Quadriceps
Other Muscles Worked: Hamstrings, Calves, Glutes

[Redwingenator]

however, fred's spinal erector muscles and hip flexors were incredibly strong.

I'm having trouble understanding how hip flexors increase your squat.  Based on origin and insertion of the Iliopsoas, if you contracted them while squatting you would be doing and isometric contraction.  If I flex my triceps while doing bicep curls the weight doesn't move.

The function of the Iliopsoas is hip flexion, which means bringing the thigh up towards the abdomen.
Exercises that work the Hip Flexors include: Sit-ups, Hanging leg raises, Leg raises, Resisted hip flexion.

[BEAST 8692]

hey beast... if you take this far enough, I can be an all star, with as many worthless posts as you.

I also dedicated my avatar to you, sexy!

hey, thanks 'all star'. you go girl...