Author Topic: Alpha Lipoic Acid  (Read 15316 times)

candidizzle

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2008, 09:17:29 AM »
lignans are anti cholestrol, estrogen promoters.

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2008, 09:22:16 AM »
ALA and creatrin... probably the only supps worth spend some money on.
S

candidizzle

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2008, 09:26:35 AM »
ALA and creatrin... probably the only supps worth spend some money on.
fish oil, whey, multi vitamin, bcaa's, casien, mrp's,,,   theres alot of stuff that can be beneficial.

WhiteHulk4

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2008, 11:19:25 AM »
lignans are anti cholestrol, estrogen promoters.

I'd like to invite Will Brink into this all of a sudden!  Flax Seed Oil is a HUGE part of his diet recommendations and I seriously DOUBT he'd be doing that if it promoted estrogen!

Faust

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2008, 12:10:44 PM »
lignans are anti cholestrol, estrogen promoters.
Second time: can you give me a study/link which proves this?

Quote
If you have low levels of estrogen in your body, lignans will act as estrogens. Whereas, if you have high levels of estrogen, lignans will bind to estrogen receptors and block the powerful effects of estrogen.
http://www.omeganutrition.com/faqs-nutrition-flaxseedoil.php

From what i understand, the phyto-estrogens are MUCH less active than regular estrogen. And every man produces estrogen to some extent, so balancing it is key.


Personally, i had a little bit of gyno from puberty, and i think flax seeds helped to improve it (don't notice it any more now). Could have been because i lost some weight also though.

Quote
The mammalian lignans enterolactone (EL) and enterodiol (ED) derived from precursors in foods, particulary flaxseed, have been shown to reduce the mammary tumor growth due to their antiestrogenic properties.
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2323297
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candidizzle

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2008, 12:32:07 PM »
I'd like to invite Will Brink into this all of a sudden!  Flax Seed Oil is a HUGE part of his diet recommendations and I seriously DOUBT he'd be doing that if it promoted estrogen!
sure id like to hear his opinion

but what im saying is fact

WhiteHulk4

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2008, 12:48:06 PM »
You think everything you say is "fact".  The only fact related to you is that you are disproven more than anyone else on this board.

candidizzle

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2008, 01:18:12 PM »
You think everything you say is "fact".  The only fact related to you is that you are disproven more than anyone else on this board.
lol

white hulk why the animosity, bro ?

will brink some kind of idol of yours? did i offend you by contradicting him ?


flax is estrogenic. lgnans are the most powerfull type fof iber when it comes to anti-cholestrol and pro- estro


omega 3's are wonderful! but there are better options

WhiteHulk4

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2008, 01:33:25 PM »
"

omega 3's are wonderful! but there are better options


Better options for what?  Omega 3's?  I'm sorry, but there are no substitutions for Omega 3 fatty acids.  They are "essential" fatty acids and your body needs them.  So no, there are not better options.

candidizzle

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2008, 03:14:15 PM »
"
So no, there are not better options.
fish oil= better option

Faust

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2008, 05:58:49 AM »
sure id like to hear his opinion

but what im saying is fact
::)
If it is a fact than it should be easy for you to prove...
Apparently you can't.
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candidizzle

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2008, 10:20:34 AM »
::)
If it is a fact than it should be easy for you to prove...
Apparently you can't.
why dont you just take a few minutes and google it, schmoe.

im not going to waste my time to try to prove myself to you.

i hoestly dont care if your soft, watering, and overly emotional.

Faust

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2008, 12:14:32 PM »
why dont you just take a few minutes and google it, schmoe.
im not going to waste my time to try to prove myself to you.
i hoestly dont care if your soft, watering, and overly emotional.
::) Nice copout.
I googled it already, and i posted links and quotes which contradict you.
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Necrosis

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2008, 05:41:21 PM »
Just because im a machine

Clin Cancer Res. 2007 Feb 1;13(3):1061-7. Links
Flaxseed and its lignans inhibit estradiol-induced growth, angiogenesis, and secretion of vascular endothelial growth factor in human breast cancer xenografts in vivo.
Bergman Jungeström M, Thompson LU, Dabrosin C.
Divison of Oncology, Faculty of Health Sciences, University Hospital, Linköping, Sweden.
PURPOSE: Vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) is a potent stimulator of angiogenesis, which is crucial in cancer progression. We have previously shown that estradiol (E2) increases VEGF in breast cancer. Phytoestrogens are potential compounds in breast cancer prevention and treatment by poorly understood mechanisms. The main phytoestrogens in Western diet are lignans, and flaxseed is a rich source of the mammalian lignans enterodiol and enterolactone. EXPERIMENTAL DESIGN: In the present study, ovariectomized mice were treated with continuous release of E2. MCF-7 tumors were established and mice were fed with basal diet or 10% flaxseed, and two groups that were fed basal diet received daily injections with enterodiol or enterolactone (15 mg/kg body weight). RESULTS: We show that flaxseed, enterodiol, and enterolactone counteracted E2-induced growth and angiogenesis in solid tumors. Extracellular VEGF in vivo, sampled using microdialysis, in all intervention groups was significantly decreased compared with tumors in the basal diet group. Our in vivo findings were confirmed in vitro. By adding enterodiol or enterolactone, E2-induced VEGF secretion in MCF-7 cells decreased significantly without agonistic effects. The increased VEGF secretion by E2 in MCF-7 cells increased the expression of VEGF receptor-2 in umbilical vein endothelial cells, suggesting a proangiogenic effect by E2 by two different mechanisms, both of which were inhibited by the addition of lignans. CONCLUSIONS: Our results suggest that flaxseed and its lignans have potent antiestrogenic effects on estrogen receptor-positive breast cancer and may prove to be beneficial in breast cancer prevention strategies in the future.


There is more but whats the point, it is anti estrogenic, by acting as a SERM. take nolvadex it is a form of inactive estrogen a SERM which inhabits the receptors so actual estrogen cannot cause an effect and is degraded, overall less estrogen.

candidizzle

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2008, 06:07:12 PM »
okay....  i admit, i am wrong.  :(


but !!


hey, i learned something other than flaz is not estrogenic,,,,,     never listen to dave palumbo !!!   ;D

Faust

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #40 on: May 04, 2008, 02:36:42 AM »
Back on topic:

I read up about ALA, and it seems very promising. Apparently it holds promise as an anti-aging compound as well: http://biosingularity.wordpress.com/2007/05/19/alpha-lipoic-acid-explored-as-anti-aging-compound/

I am thinking now about starting a low-dose (100 mg/day).
What's the best time to take it? First i was thinking post-WO to help with the carbs. But (correct me if i'm wrong) the goal of PWO carbs is to create a high insulin spike which stimulates the muscles to grow. If i lower that insulin spike by taking ALA (which also helps with the carbs), i would be short-cutting myself.
- OR: Does the ALA make your muscle cells more sensitive to insulin, so basically you have the same effect with less insulin?

So now my plan is to take the ALA at breakfast.
okay....  i admit, i am wrong.  :(
but !! hey, i learned something other than flaz is not estrogenic,,,,,     never listen to dave palumbo !!!   ;D
Wow, you were able to admit it.  :o
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Necrosis

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #41 on: May 04, 2008, 07:08:46 AM »
100MGS IS TO LOW, TRY 300MGS WITH a big carb meal, or more.

your also right about insulin sensitivity, less insulin means less time for lipogenesis and the ala will help partition the glucose to the muscle.

fucking caps lock

busyB

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #42 on: May 04, 2008, 08:40:00 AM »
100MGS IS TO LOW, TRY 300MGS WITH a big carb meal, or more.

your also right about insulin sensitivity, less insulin means less time for lipogenesis and the ala will help partition the glucose to the muscle.

fucking caps lock


So ideal while dieting too then I assume.

Why the "CAPS LOCK" mini-metldown?  ;D

Necrosis

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #43 on: May 04, 2008, 09:10:54 AM »
So ideal while dieting too then I assume.

Why the "CAPS LOCK" mini-metldown?  ;D

as long as i dont super melt im fine.

ya its a great supplement for dieting as well, probably its best use.

WhiteHulk4

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2008, 04:28:31 PM »
fish oil= better option

Fish oil is a better option than Omega 3's?  Hmmmm...  Considering the reason Fish Oil is so beneficial is because it's HIGH in OMEGA 3's!

candidizzle

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #45 on: May 04, 2008, 04:32:42 PM »
Fish oil is a better option than Omega 3's?  Hmmmm...  Considering the reason Fish Oil is so beneficial is because it's HIGH in OMEGA 3's!
uuummm


are you mentally retarded, or are you just being a complete asshole ?

Necrosis

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #46 on: May 04, 2008, 07:41:54 PM »
Fish oil is a better option than Omega 3's?  Hmmmm...  Considering the reason Fish Oil is so beneficial is because it's HIGH in OMEGA 3's!

it has different omega 3's per se, is candidates point.

candidizzle

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #47 on: May 04, 2008, 07:59:21 PM »
it has different omega 3's per se, is candidates point.
i am pretty sure he knew my point, usmokepole..  i think he was just being a jackass.


 :)

anyways, ive got some questions about carbohydrate metabolism bro, if youve got some time i was hoping you could help me out

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #48 on: May 04, 2008, 08:05:51 PM »
i am pretty sure he knew my point, usmokepole..  i think he was just being a jackass.


 :)

anyways, ive got some questions about carbohydrate metabolism bro, if youve got some time i was hoping you could help me out

sure, go ahead. Im going to bed now but ill answer them sometime tom when i get the chance. if i can answer them.

WhiteHulk4

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Re: Alpha Lipoic Acid
« Reply #49 on: May 05, 2008, 07:06:45 AM »
i am pretty sure he knew my point, usmokepole..  i think he was just being a jackass.


Actually, I had no idea what your point was...  Other than you were saying that Fish Oil was a better option than Omega 3's.  That's what you said isn't it?  And it made no sense because Fish Oil is a great source "OF" Omega 3's.

And you're asking me if I'm retarded?  Do this, print out all of your posts on GetBig, no edits or anything, take them to a Nutritionist, Personal Trainer, anyone with a Brain; and have them review your posts.  TRUST ME!  They'll be asking you if you're retarded "bro".